INSTITUTE OF TEXAN CULTURES
ORAE HISTORY PROGRAM
INTERVIEW WITH: Arnold Griffin
Interviewer: Al Lowman
Date: August 3, 1985
F F
Place: Oral History Office, Institute of Texan
Cultures
L: Mr. Griffin is going to be talking about his antique
tool collection. And some other subjects . We were dis­cussing
as we walked into the o ffice here, the origin of
these antique tools and you said they belonged to your
grandfather.
G: My great grandfather, probably, David Spencer Griffin.
L: I see . Who came from
G: Indiana. His father came from either England or Ireland,
right c l ose there. There was two of 'em came over . One went
toward Kentucky; and one went toward Alabama, Carolinas.
So I'm kin to every Griffin in Texas, black or white.
L: And so, they landed where?
G: Well, you know with the unrest of the Civil War, there
was lots of moving around in the United States then ...
L: When they came from England to the United States?
G: They landed on the East Coast.
L: And then came overland to Kentucky
G: My great grandfather Bunche came to Kentucky. And he
married a woman there by the name of Burch. They had
twelve chidren.
Arnold Griffin 2.
L: From Kentucky then to Gainsville?
G: About' 6l.
L: O.K. That was the time of the Gainsville hangings, no
doubt. And then ... this was your great grandfather who
arrived in Gainsville.
G: Yes ... Yeah, with my grandfather and all his, I believe,
twelve children. Six or seven boys and the rest girls.
L: And so then the family came later to Lockhart, did you
say?
G: They stayed in Gainsville for a period of time there and
then he met Hezikiah Griffin who was my grandfather, who I
claim was the owner of these tools. But probably they were
David Spencer Griffin's, his father's;handed down. They
came across there at Gainsville, the Red River on the ford
in ox wagons. I guess probably two big ox wagons because
this bunch of tools that I've, got to take one.
Of course, my father has added to these tools and I've
added some to 'em. It is just the ranch tools that we have;
that we show.
L: These tools, then, were they used on the farm around
Gainsville?
G: They were used in Kentucky and brought to Texas. No
doubt to build the home ... log cabin; build wagons. I
have all it takes to build a wagon wheel or build a wagon
and I can build a wagon.
L: Build a wagon or a house
Arnold Griffin 3 .
G: Build a wagon or a house or anything else. You know,
when you're a pioneer in Texas, you have to do everything.
There wasn't anything else. You either did it or you did
without.
L: That's right .
G: Some of them did without but that gets sorta lean, too,
and you have to ...
L: So they came to Lockhart about when?
G: Well , I would say about, probably, about '65. I wish I
had my history here that I have down. I could tel l you exactly
when they came. I have this all written up in a book: THE
HISTORY OF MEDINA COUNTY.
L: How long did they stay around Lockhart?
G: I think they stayed around Lockhart about, proba~, two
years because the oldest two children were born there. Maybe
three years . And then they moved on down and settled in Bandera,
or south of Bandera on Birdie Creek, which is now ... it was in
sight of Mormon Camp up there, which is in the bottom of
Medina Lake. When the lake got iowa few yeamback , I went
up there and the old chimneys were sticking up of these
Mormon Camp houses, etc.; still there. We went and looked
them over. I went out there in boats; checked everything out
there in boats . Checked everything out and found reasonably
right where my grandfather lived. He built him a log cabin
out there and they cleared out a fifteen acre field.
Arnold Griffin 4 .
G: Now all these boys and their daddy ... the mother was
dead when they come out of Kentucky, the Burch woman. These
boys, they all stayed together for self protection , mostly.
You didn't roam off by yourself because the Indians around
Bandera were heavy.
My grandfather cleared out, and these boys, about fifteen
acres of land. And they planted a corn crop the first year.
And then they split shingles on the bottom~~f the Medina
River down there; they were cyprus shingles . And they sold
those shingles in Castroville which was some twenty five miles
down. And they delivered them down there.
And all these boys made their living splitting shingles .
Of course, they raised a crop to eat. They had a good garden.
L: Do you have those tools they used to split those shingles?
G: Oh, yes . Still got 'em. And was taught well how to do
it by my Daddy.
L: The shingle makers were fairly early out there in that
Guadalupe River country.
G: That's right. Oh, yeah.
L: So it's not surprising it would also be down around
Bandera.
G: Bandera. In the bottom of the Medina River, splittin '
them cyprus shingles.
L: The Mormon settlement there. That lake was built in
about 1916, wasn 't it?
Arnold Griffin 5 .
G: '14, I believe. '14 or '16.
L: Since the mid teens, you were able to find your grand-daddy's
house.
G: I found out about where it was because they told me how
it was from the Mormon Camp. The Mormon Camp, when that lake
went down, a few years , it was nearly dry. All of the old
chimneys and fireplaces of the Mormon Camp were visible .
Some of 'em on dry land. And we went down and looked it over
and I said, "Right here is just about the foundation of this
old log house that my granddaddy lived in.
My Daddy wasn't born there. About , let's see , three
chi ldren born at Lockhart; four children born at Bandera.
And then two ... there were nine ... two born at Devine, or
west of Devine ... before Devine was, it was what they called
Francisco at that time.
It was a little settlement on the Francisco Creek and
they bought a farm west of there about two miles because
They left Bandera because of the Indians. I tel~ou my
grandmother , she just forced my granddaddy . Said, "This is -
you peopl e don't stay at home and you go off and split shingles
and I'm l eft here with these little kids, and these Indians
come and punch their nose up against the only glass window
we gO~in this house and look in it and we bar the doors and
they got muskets here and all the kids know how to load them,
you know you just shoot one and then give 'em another one,
etc . 11
Arnold Griffin 6.
G: I know one morning they told me that Uncle Silas, that's
my Granddaddy's brother, a great uncle to me, had gone out
and had an ox with a bell on down there and he'd gone down to
get the old ox to come in to - on Monday morning to take
everybody out on, I guess, on a shingle splittin', and some
of 'em had gone into Bandera and there wasn't anybody there
but my Grandmother and them little bitty kids and the Indians
got after him and surrounded him and he was abou~alf a mile
from the house, I guess, and he didn't have any gun with 'im.
He just went out after these Hawks, Indians. Very foolish.
He ought to took the gun. Maybe they'd kill him just the
same, you know. But they didn't kill 'im.
My Granddaddy had a picket fence next to the house -
next to the log cabin and in this picket fence they kept 20
bloodhounds. Now they raised them bloodhounds up just for
the purpose of protection. And Uncle Silas down there, he
hollered and hollered and my Grandmother heard 'im say,
"Turn them dogs loose." And she turned 'em dogs loose and
they went down into there and got after them Indians and
routed the Indians. There was about three of the Indians
killed. I don't know whether by the dogs or by guns. But
years after that, my Uncle Jack Griffin, who was a legend in
his time, in Devine. He was an old carpenter and contractor
there and whatever he said was law and gospel in that town
before it was a railroad through there until he died at 94 or
95. I'd go down to visit 'im when I was a little boy and he'd
Arnold Griffin 7.
G: be on the back porch astroppin' his razor. He said,
"Kid", he said, "That razor strop come right out of the back
of a buck Indian."
I don't know whether he took it out of it or whether one
of his uncles did there because he wasn't old at that time.
He was probably ten or twelve years old when he got ... But
that always sort of stayed with me, you know.
L: There was never a time, then when you didn't have ... weren't
in the presence of these antique tools. They've just been
part of your life from - since you could remember.
G: That's right. Well , this was Blackjack Country where
they bought out east - us - west of Devine there - west of
Franscisco - did have a little black hill on it but they
didn't like the land too well so he bought another 400 acres
of land at Shookville. Now Shookville wasn't there but that
was a little school distric~number ten of Medina County.
So he bought this place out there - my Grandfather did - and
moved my Daddy, who was Ezra Griffin, and Charlie Griffin
who was younger than my Daddy by two years. They were going to
school at the Franscisco School and they moved him up there.
All the rest of the family was gone. They were living
around there in different places. I know Uncle Jack, the one
I was telling you was such a legend. He was living on the
Zack Foster place, what they called it over there. And he
had come and helped build the house. They went to Castroville.
Arnold Griffin 8.
G: It was twelve miles to Castroville. And they went to
Castroville. When they got this new place, signed the notes
on it - didn't have any money. And put something down, I
forget what . My abstracts of deeds don't exactly say what
they put down on it. But they acquired it anyhow - 400 acres.
And they acquired a lso a note for eight hundred dollars
in the deal. Well, they had four hundred dollars cash money
when they sold this Bandera place or when they sold the other
place, one, I don't know.
But anyhow, they took that four hundred dollars and went
to Castroville, up there on the river. A man had a sawmill
up there on the Medina River. They knew him well and they
both had enough lumber to build that - it was a story and a
half home. It had an attic in it, you know, where the boys
slept up there. And they built that home for four hundred
dollars. It was a nice home. I was raised in it. While
they were building that home, and they built it pretty close
to a low place. It wasn't a creek, but it was a low place
where water stood and they built a little pond out - say
fifty yards - sixty , from the house. They were building this
house up there and putting shingles on the roof which they
had split themselves and Uncle Jack was up there and he could
see a bunch of turkeys comin' across there and drink at that
water down there, you know, of course, that disturbed him.
He was a great hunter, anyhow . They were all were in them days.
Arnold Griffin
L: Had to be.
9 .
G: Had to be. So he jumped down off of there and got his
musket and found out that he didn't have any shot so he poured
that powder down in there and a little waddin' and reached
down in his nails there and poured a handful of them square
little shingle nails about that long down that barrel, stuck
them down there, and after I was born, years later, my Daddy
would be crossing that crossing said , "Right here is where
Jack killed them turkeys ... He killed two turkeys and
brought 'em in", and Dad says, "You could see the scars in
them bushes where the shingle nails went through there for
years".
L: That was being very resourceful.
In your tool collection, Mr. Griffin, what is the most
interesting and unusual tool? Which one are you proudest of?
G: Well, the one I guard most, really , it's a small tool,
it's a spoke s have to make wagon spokes with and a tenon cutter.
L: Why do they mean so much to you?
G: I know those belonged to, probably come over from England
with my great , great, great grandfather . I watch them . And
my daughter who is watchin ' ' em up there now, watches those
too. And , of course , we have foot adzes and broad axes that
are just of the same category and the same vintage. But
they're not so easy carried off.
But not many people even know the value, or what a~oak
shave is
Arnold Griffin 10.
L: So you give them your best protection.
G: That's right.
But I always put the tenon cutter into a big brace to
make it more of a tool, harder to carry off . And I put it
up there, the demonstration, and I' ll cut a tenon off . That
girl will, too, my youngest daughter. I have five daughters
and I've sort of turned the tools over to my youngest daughter,
Roberta Irwin . She's a Homemaking Teacher at Holmes High
School o ut here. She's made every Festival with me from the
start.
L: You know it's kind of unusual that we have a big collection
like that. Somebody back up the line didn't distribute the
tools equally among all the children so that by the time it
passes on down, everybody's got one or two things but nobody
has the whole collection . So yours must be unusual in that
respect.
G: It was , but not really, because I was on the home ranch,
you know, and I own the home ranch. After, later years, when
I had the toolbox and some of the other boys, my Daddy's
brothers and so forth , they said, "If you're going to keep
all them old tools, you know I've got this tool over here that
needs to be over here and I'll just bring it over and give
it back to you". And they brought their tools in and re­plenished
that toolbox.
L: I see.
Arnold Griffin 11.
G: They weren't greedy about that. They didn't care anything
about them, anyway, just what they wanted to use. Some people
value tools and other people don't.
L: That's right.
Let me ask you about your first involvement with the
Institute here and he (O.T. ?) was telling me he recruited
you back in '68 to go to Washington with them to help put
on, or make a contribution to, the American Folklife Festival
at the Smithsonian. What are your recollections of that
particular experience?
G: Well, I tell that on that story tellin' stage over there
so I keep up to date on it pretty good. We had a little
trouble gettin' the Folklife Festival started. You know
there wasn't any money here, much, in the Institute of Texan
Cultures. O.T. had retired from carrying my mail for eighteen
years and I knew him well. And we had worked on civic projects
like floats and different things for Devine. If O.T. wanted
somethin' done, he got ahold of me. He knew I'd stay with
him. We built floats at four o'clock in the morning; all
night; in gettin' 'em ready. There are not many people that
are that civic minded, really, and that will stay and enjoy
it. But I'll tell you what, there ain't many men in the world
that know more about folklife than O.T. Baker. According to
my knowledge, he's the top. They's another one in Timbo,
Arkansas, who is a good friend of mine, that's Jimmy Driftwood.
12.
Arnold Griffin
G: We went up a couple of summers ago and visited with him.
And he's well-versed in folklife festivals, you know.
So, O.T. decided he wanted to get into this Festival and
Mr. Henderson Shuffler he was willin' to do it if it didn't
cost too much money. He didn't have the money. But O.T.
I was pushin' O.T. When he'd get down i n the dumps and we'd
get thinkin' about this thing, he'd come out to my livin'
room and we'd talk things over. I'd tell him, "Oh, go ahead ,
we' ll make it". I'd push him up and get him feelin' good;
he was ready; it didn't take too much pushin' on O.T. He was
ready all the time.
But money was involved and then H.B. Zachry, who I
worked for for a good many years, good friend of mine, and
also of O.T. Baker's . O.T. got to know him well. H.B. was
very civic minded; dead now, but I tell~ou he's one of the
I
best men I ever knew. So he got involved a little bit in
that he WOU1~aYbe underwrite some of this stuff. And Howard
Buck would underwrite some of this stuff. I would underwrite
some of this stuff. Got John Con~lly involved. We got an
invitation , I don't know who was responsible for that invitation,
but we got the invitation from the Smithsonian to participate
in the Folklife Festival, Fourth of July, up there . O.T.
come out and we talked the thing over and everything and he
went to recruiting people, gettin' people allover Texas .
I have a ranch out there that's got a lot o f stuff on it and
he wanted me to get everything; maguey plants, and so forth.
Arnold Griffin 13 .
G: So I went down there at Moore Hollow , that's a town be-l
ow Devine where I knew there was a l ot of maguey plants and
I took my back hoe down there, my trailer, and I dug up them
maguey plants that is thirty feet high, with blooms on ' em .
I brought ' em home to my place and set 'em out there . And
people went to bringin' things in there. We set a day that we
were going to load two trucks, belonged t o the state of Texas.
They were ten-wheelers, long tandem trucks. And I mean they
were long ones. The state furnished two drivers. J ohn Conally
sent ' em down there to my place and we met there that day. I
bet there was fifty, sixty people there. We loaded that truck.
We l oaded it with every kind of a plant from peyote, which the
Indians used, to prickly pear . And even loaded two fightin '
roosters on there. I don't think o. T. or Henderson Shuffler
knew they was on there . But I did. They belonged to Sherill
Stroud in Devine. We didn't load 'em til after they left.
We met down there that day and Dewey Compton, who was out
of Houston , dead now , but a fine feller. He was there and he
brought lots of plants from East Texas and drove over. And we
loaded 'em on these trucks and watered 'em down good . When
they got the trucks loaded about right, I just drove 'em out
there in the pasture and took a front end loader and went to
loadin' prickly pear. I'd just scoop up a big batch of it and
set it over in that truck just like it was settin' there, you
know . Big side boards on that truck I know we loaded 'em
down. They was well-loaded when they left Texas. Good thing
Arnold Griffin 14 •
G: they had licenses exempt or they'd a been caught.
We had a good time loadin' them trucks. That was one
of the best parts of gettin' ready. Tellin' what each was
going to do. o. T. Baker was down there. He'd gone to Laredo,
allover Texas as far as that's concerned, recruitin' different
people that he thought could do the job. He went to Laredo
and got a bunch of tanned deer hides and he gave each one of
those participants one of those tanned deer hides. They were
soft as .... I've got mine at home yet. I've got everyone that
was up there written on it .... Even old Dugosh that was over
in Winnie, Texas. Cajun over there that couldn't spell his
name but he said, I'll just write my name there, Dugosh, and
he put his x on it. He was a fiddle player; Cajun fiddle player.
We got them trucks loaded out there one evenin' late.
And those two drivers, Texas Highway Department, headed out
for Washington, D.C. Takin' five days, I believe. Before they
left, Sherill Stroud, blacksmith shop in Devine and fightin'
rooster man, he said he wanted to trade two roosters to a feller
up there in Virginia that he knew and he was wantin' me to
take them roosters up there. I said, "Load 'em in." He put a
little box about eighteen inches square right down there in
front of each of them and each box had an apple in it. We
put the other one on the other side of the truck and it had
a apple in it. We covered 'em up with prickly pear. He said,
"They won't touch 'em til they get to Washington. That apple
will be both food and water for five days." And it was.
Arnold Griffin 15.
G: Well, we corne on to San Antonio then and they told us
when we was goin' to leave on the plane. Got up there about
four, five o ' clock; went to the International Airport and
there was this big 747 ready to go. Hondo Crouch walkin'
the floor with a tow sack on his back with a guitar , about a
$3.75 guitar, strapped across his back and a bunch of rattle­snake
skins with the rattles stickin' out up on his back.
And a beard on him looked like Santa Claus. A hat that looked
like Pancho Villa. He was dressed up.
And Ace Re~ was there. Then there was a bunch there
from Corpus Christi; a bunch of Czech dancers ... little girls
about fifteen, sixteen years old, pretty, about fifteen or
twenty of 'ern. They had some sponsors with 'ern. All Czech
people; talked pretty broken . They were dressed in their
garb.
I really didn't know exactly what I was gettin' into
with that bunch. That was my first folklife festival endeavor,
you know. My wife was with me and she was not too excited
about the thing. Said , "Man alive I hate to get on the air
plane with all these trashy lookin' people." But, after she
got to know 'ern it was quite different. We was about a hour
loadin' that airplane. You know a bunch of Texas people ,
they're goin' to be there early. We had to wait about a hour
and we got acquainted with everybody and we about took over
the airport before we left. Playin' music; had fiddles and
Arnold Griffin 16.
G: guitars; had an old man from down here in East Texas
not too far, that had a band and he had a dulcimer; one of
these hammer dulcimers. We took that thing along; I forget
his name. He had two boys that played with him.
We loaded that airplane and got on it. I thought O.T.
was goin' with us. He said, "Arnold, you sort of watch out
after this bunch. I'll be on the next plane." And it didn't
come 'til the next day. So we headed out.
Liquor by the drink wasn't in order in Texas at that
time but the minute we got across the river, everybody but my
wife and I, I think, was about to get drunk. I'm a Baptist
deacon and I wouldn't touch none of that stuff at all. I
don't think it would kill you. But Hondo Crouch, after they'd
gone pretty far and we got up pretty high and eat supper ...
had a good supper on the plane ... well, things got pretty
lively. I don't know how long it took us to get up there, it
was midnight before we got there maybe later than that; maybe
one o'clock. I guess about midnight. It was still daylight
when we crossed the Mississippi river and I looked down and
that's the crookedest thing; you can see about two hundred
miles, that Mississippi river, looked like a snake tryin'
to crawl on unlevel ground. It was really ...
But then we hit in a storm. Man, the lightlnin'
played on the wings of that thing! I had an old boy on there
by the name of Willard Wilson ... he was from Yancey, Texas.
I recruited him to make jerky. You know, O. T., he believes
Arnold Griffin 17.
G: in taking care of a lot of the natural things of
Folklife Festival. Not so many artificial things like the
toys and the tinkers; the basics of life is what he wanted
to show ' em up there.
My purpose, mainly was to show 'em how to feed cattle
in a bad winter time by burnin' pear; prickly pear; burn the
thorns off of it ... where the cattle can eat it. I loaded
on this truck a forked stick; I took a gasoline pear burner.
I took a kerosene pear burner .. Beevers Hind, made in Pearsall,
Texas, invented there. And I took a diesel pear burner and
I took a butane pear burner. And with this butane pear
burner, I set in that truck a forty gallon tank of propane .
. ~
Right up in front of that truck. I covered that~priCklY
pear. It was full. All this went into the truck.
I also put in twenty-five mesquite posts because we de-cided
when we got up there , we was goin' to get crowded out
and we was goin' to build a fence around ourselves. I took
a good post hole digger and some axes from the ranch; twenty
five posts. We thought that would be enough.
o. T. had bought a lot of maguey rope down at Laredo
where we could stretch around just like wire; keep the
people off of us. We needed that. He knew more about it
than I did. I didn't think we needed it but we needed it.
Had George Hills out of Hondo. He was t o demonstrate
out of these maguey plants the makin' of alcoholic beverages.
He's a teetotaler; he never drank anything in his life.
Arnold Griffin 18.
G: Used to be the sheriff of Uvalde County. But he lived
in Hondo at that time. He's dead now. But he was a tee­totaler
and he was going to demonstrate the making of this
alcohol ... all of it.
Rocky Stallings was on that plane.
We landed that plane then in Dulles Airport, Washington,
D.C. And that's a long ways from the Smithsonian.
L: Yes, it is.
G: They put us on one of these shuttle buses; they just
back that bus up there, looked like a two-story bus and you
just come right off the airplane right on to that thing and
headed us for Washington, D.C. to the George Washington
University. It was the dormitories for college students. No
air conditioning in these dormitories .
L : In the summertime.
G: 120 degrees; in the summertime at two o'clock in the
morning, when we got to those things.
My wife and I both were tired and I told Edna, "Just
let's go on upstairs and go to bed. We'll find something in
the morning." We did . We got into a room right overlooking
the street and the front porch. And there on the front
porch were Rocky Stallings and Hondo Crouch and Ace Reid and
Willard Wilson . They set there on them steps all night. They
never went to bed. And they talked. And the sirens ground all
night. You could hear them coming by ... r-r-r-r-r ... all night.
I told Edna Washington D.C. is worse than San Antonio. (laughter)
Arnold Griffin 19.
G: Next mornin', we got up, Edna and I said, "Well, let's
walk." We got ready, our bags was checked anyhow. We just
started walkin' down in Washington; first time I'd ever
been t o Washington, D.C. Country boy from Sugarville. It
l ooked pretty wild to me. I told my wife, "I don't see
,
what keeps this island here from sinkin". They had so many
of these old marble columns in front of these buildings.
There was the Archives, the Treasury Buildin' , and all these
buildings, they've got these great big marble columns in
front of 'em. I don't see how the earth holds 'em up.
But we walked on up to the Capitol and we looked around
it a little bit. Now this was about six o'clock in the
morning', when we were doin' this. We come on down toward
the Smithsonian, walkin', cuz I wanted to see what was
t akin' place and we were both pretty young then. That's
been nearly fifteen years ago, hasn't it?
L: That's right.
G: Sixteen , seventeen years ago.
L: ' 69, was it?
G: ' 69, I gue s s .
Anyhow, we enjoyed the walk. We looked up the place
over there and everything. Got down there and fooled around
at the Smithsonian; went in there and found out they was goin'
to feed us in the cafeteria there down in the basement of
that thing. They had a first class cafeteria down there.
Arnold Griffin 20.
G: I had already met the man that invited us to Washington;
he had been down here and talked to O.T. and they'd been
out to my house, etc . and I had met him. He come out and
told me where we was gain' to set up, etc .
Sometime in the mornin', that other plane come in. And
it was loaded up with the rest of 'em, includin' Henderson
Shuffler and O.T. They all got down there on that square .
This was the fifth day that the truck had gone . I could
hear somethin' a - crowin ' and I looked up and them two trucks
was comin' right down the one way street from the capitol,
the south side of that thing , toward the Washington Monument
and them two roosters were crowin' . It was the first time
I think, really, that the boss of this whole trip, O. T . and
Henderson had heard the roosters. I don't think Henderson
heard 'em then because he wasn't there at that time.
But anyhow, we drove them Mack trucks down there under
them Washington elms. We staked off where we was gain' to
put up our little demonstration. We had a whole block. A
hundred and thirty of us from Texas. Two airplane loads. We
scattered out over that block and we had barbecue pits brought
in there from Cliff Tiner I believe he was furnishing
the barbecue pits up there; showin' 'em how Texas made
barbecue .
And ole Willard Wilson was pre- curin' his jerky in this
barbecue pit., etc. We set that up; had all that wood and
everything. We run out of posts. Got post hole diggers out
and we dug these post hOle~ight where we wanted ' em; run out
Arnold Griffin 21.
G: of posts. Hondo Crouch said, "Give me that axe ."
Them Washington elms were pretty far to the first trees and
he Cli~~d up on old Ace Reid's shoulder and got up in that
Washington e lmi and chopped out two of the best posts you
ever saw. Fell ' em down there. I thought them policemen
were goin ' to eat us up. But they didn't say nothin'. There
was a least fifty policemen watchin' us. I was sort of
disturbed but ... because I didn ' t know exactly how they
was goin' to be about them two roosters; feel about them two
roosters. I felt like I was sort of responsible for them
two roosters. But after while, one of them
around there where I was, said, "Say, looks
pOlicrmen\ come
like you're
sort of ramroddin' this here thing, when are we goin' to
fight them roosters?" I said , "Well we're not goin ' to fight
them roosters, we just brought them up here for a little part
of Texas. After we get through here , Sherill Stroud our black-smith
here , is goin' to trade 'em off to a local man over
here somewhere . He wants to raise some chickens for eggs ."
Course that wasn 't the purpose but ... that's what I told him.
"Oh," he said, "We've got to fight them roosters a little ." I
found out they was more interested in seein' a rooster fight
than they was not. I told 'em, "Well, we might spar ' em
for you a little if I can find Sherri ll . He owns ' em ." And
/0 ",/(Q.WO-.
we got Sherrill and ole Rocky Stallings, that .To\l'ol'll~a Indian
medicine man that we had with us. They didn't have any
Griffin 22.
G: Navajas on 'em. We had ' em on a string, one tied over
here and one tied over here. They got ' em and brought 'em
together and they started messin ' 'em up a little bit and got
'em mad at each other. Don't take much to get them roosters
mad at each other . And they sparred around there for three,
four minutes and then they'd take ' em off . They'd let ' em
hit each other a few times. I finally satisfied them police­men
and they a ll l eft. That's all they wanted , to see them
roosters fight. We staked them roosters over there.
We got that thing built up . That prickly pear, in the
haulin ' of i t, a l ot of them prickly pear apples had been
knocked off . So I went into the Institution there and went
down into that basement where that commissary was where we
was goin' to eat , I asked that l ady down there, "You any
toothpicks down there?" "Yeah". She handed me one tooth-pick.
I said, "I want a good many toothpicks. I want a
couple of boxes of toothpicks." "What do you want 'em for?"
I says, "I got to put some pear apples back on these pear
out there." Well , you know she went in there and got me
enough toothpicks. I think she give me about three boxes
of toothpicks. We took that post hole digger and a grubbin'
hoe and we set that prickly pear out in a big half circle
right there and put everyone of them pear apples back on it;
right where they was, with them toothpicks , stick one in
there, another one in there ... some of ' em was ripe ; some
Griffin 23.
G: of ' em was green. It was really colorful. We stretched
this here maguey rope all around the thing. My wife and
O.T. Baker's sister, they was makin' jelly out of the corn
cobs and mesquite beans, watermelon rinds and everything
else. They'd go down at night, late, in the Washington
University, George Washington University in the Homemaking
department, and they'd make up a batch of that stuff and bring
it back up there. And the next day, they'd peddle it out.
Just a little bit to each one. They got rid o f more jelly
than anything.
At night, we would play the fiddle. I had the privilege
of playing the fiddle with Jimmy Driftwood and a bunch of them
boys right under the Spirit of St. Louis. It was hangin' in
the main Institute Building. We had a stage right under it
and my hat was rubbin' on the wheels of that thing. We had
a good time. We played the fiddle at night. We entertained
the people in the daytime. And any time the crowd would get
a little slack, which wasn't often, we'd crank up that old
butane pear burner and here they'd come full speed because
that thing made a lot of racket, you know. Then I'd give 'em
the story about how we used to burn prickly pear. Build a
fire up, take a forked stick and axe and cut down a piece of
pear. I'd cut a little piece and put it over the fire,singe ,
it off and give it to the cattle. That limits a man's ability
to feed cattle. We got to l ookin' for better ways than that
there. Prickly pear contains about four percent protein.
Griffin 24.
G: They have to eat a good deal of it but they can do well
on it.
Seems like most of them black people up there) especially,
there's worlds of black people in Washington, D.C., they'd
say, "How do it taste?" I said, "I don't eat the stuff, I just
burn the thorns off it so the cattle can ~at it." But I
had a big old pocket knife and I whupped that thing out and I
went to dicing that pear up and I'd hand 'em a little bit in
my hand. And you
they a teJhe whole
know, in the ten days that we were there ,
pear patch up. (Laughter)
We had an enjoyable time but let's go back to where we got
a better place to stay. They put us in them dormitories without
any air conditioning and I guess they thought Texas was pretty
raw but we was used to some air conditioning, too. So the
next day, Mr. Henderson Shuffler and Mr.O.T. Baker got us moved
into the best hotel there was in Washington.
L: Shuffler suddenly found the money, did he?
G: Well, I believe the Smithsonian furnished that. The Smith-sonian
furnished that when we complained. They was so many of
us and we were complaining, they said, "If you all can't f urnish
it, we got the money, we'll do it ourselves. We're going to
move 'em." They were very nice to us. My wife and I were in
a nice hotel within a block of the Capitol. We had every
morning off until one o'clock, when we cranked up the Fo lk-li
fe Festiva l and then worked it til about twelve o'clock at
night just like we do here. We got lots of experience.
Griffin 25.
G: In the mornin', I would call a taxicab. There's only 769
taxicabs at that time in Washington. Didn't take long to get
one. Most of 'ern had a black d river . Back there they was
"colored" dr i vers . I'd tell him, "Let's go."
He'd take us allover , whatever we needed to see in
Washington, or what he thought we needed to see. And every
mornin', we would ride Washington, D.C. and over into Virginia.
Everyone of 'ern wanted to take us out to Kennedy's grave.
Lyndon Johnson was President at that time.
But when that many TexaDS ~ot into Washington, D.C., he
corne horne. He left word at the White House, said , "Just turn
it over to ' ern. Let ' ern do anything they want to. " We went
to the White House and went all through it . He was very nice
to us. But it was at such time, it was a bad time in the history
when over across the Potomac they had that tent city in there.
They was tents put up there, poor people; black people;
whatever they was they was allover that place. They were
burnin' the flag on the Capitol steps, at the time we were
there and havin' quite a disturbance.
We had a story teller with us by the name of Bob Murphy .
L: From Nacogdoches.
G: From Nacogdoches, Texas.
L: Is he still alive?
G: Yes, sir, I believe he is. He ought to be here. He's
hard to beat for a good after dinner speaker.
Griffin 2(;.
L: I've heard that.
G: I've heard him at several after dinner talks and he's
good. But, anyhow, Bob got up after we got there and looked
over the situation about this tent city and everything. He
said, "It looks like Lyndon don't know what to do with 'em."
He was criticizing Lyndon a little bit, but . .. said, "I tell
him and I think he's gone to Texas. The thing to do is to
call in the Texas Rangers. They could take care of this
situation. I remember down there when Beaumont was in
trouble, when they had the gusher down there and every night
people were gettin' killed on the streets
END OF TAPE I, Side 1, 45 minutes.
TAPE I, Side 2.
"
G: Old Bob Murphy was tellin' stories the night a f ter we'd
looked over the whole situation and he and I talked that thing
over he was t e llin' the crowd that night off of the stage,
"I'll tell you what. I think Lyndon has gone to Texas , to
see about this situation and what he ought to do is call in
the Texas Rangers. I remember down there when they had tha t
Spindletop. The mud was knee deep in town and the killing
was allover town, every night, two- three people get killed.
Finally the people decided, the sheriff couldn ' t do anything,
fi nally they decided, they had a meetin' decided to call i n
Griffin 27 .
G: the Texas Rangers. And they cal l ed the Governor . In about
three days, they showed up. They was waitin' til l all of
' em come back to town, they wasn't a fraid of that because
the Texas Rangers was comin ' to town.
Lo a nd behold, the train rolled i n and off s t epped the
Te xas Ranger. Well, the mayor , the sheriff, they all met
him. Said , "Where are the Rangers?" Said, "I'm it." Said,
"Why , you can't handle thi s situation." Said, "What's your
t roub l e? " "Killing . - One trouble i s killing." "You just
got one trouble; one man." The next day , on the streets
of Beaumont, there was another man killed. That was the end
of the killing. The Texas Ranger, he stayed there about
thirty days and he wal ked up and down the streets . He final l y
went on back t o Austin . Said, "If you call one of ' em up
her e , this thing will straighten out ." (Laughter )
L: How long did that Washington Festival go on? Was that
three or four days?
G: I think it was about four days ; three or f o ur days . We
were up there about ten days.
L: I was working here when that was taking place . So I
remember O.T. organi zed but tha t's been many years ago and I
wasn ' t involved. I've got a pretty hazy memory of t hat .
Now, then,aft er you f olk s had the benefit of t hat Wash­ington
experience , what is your recollection of the amount
of time that elapsed then before the first Texas Folklife
Festival was held?
Griffin 28.
G: Well, during the Washington experience , O.T. and I'd
get together and I guess he'd get together with other people
and tal k, even up there. "We can have one in Texas and there
won't be nobody tryin ' to tell us what to do. We can tell
ourselves what to do . We got more in Texas than they ' ve got
in al l the rest of the United States as far as folklife is
concerned . We can start one of these things in Texas . And
I think we ought to do it . " I encouraged him in it . And
lots of other people encouraged him in it . And it probably
took about two or three years of gettin ' . . . I don ' t know how
soon O.T. went to work on traveling t he State of Texas. But
he had already traveled it pretty well in organizin ' this
bunch that went to Washington , D.C. He knew where the folk ­life
people were .
The thing that was worrying him and Mr. Henderson Shuffler
was how to produce the first one without any money . That's
the way I hear it , anyhow . There was barely enough money
here to run the Instit Qte like it was. I t was Texas history
inside the buildin ' without the Folklife Festival . You can
stick your neck out on a limb pretty far. Sometime you get
chopped off .
I guess t hat Mr. H. B. Zachry and O. T . Baker '" event­ually
, Mr . Shuffler decided that O. T . . . . O.T . was always in
the mood and I was always in the mood . And I'm sure Hondo
~rouch and Ace Reid and others were in t he mood and they were
responsible for a lot of it. And old Cliff Tyner, people
Griffin 29.
G: that had been invol ved in this thing, Dewey Compton,
others . They encouraged this participation.
So we got it together. o. T. corne out, he said, "I
know you're from a brush country ; you've got all these tools ."
He knew I had ' e rn, you know. Said, "I'd like for you , if you
COU1Cjto build us a l og cabin up there to start . That will
be your part ; participation in the Folklife Festival. Take
these old tools and build us a l og cabin."
I told him, "We ain 't got much timber in this country .il
tC Well, we 'll get the timber over in my country . " He corne from
Center, Texas ... originally.
I think The Southwestern Development Corporation may
have furnished the first timber for that log cabin. I be-lieve
the telephone company hauled it up here for free . This
was all for free . To get the Folklife Festival goin '.
I got my family t ogether and some of my neighbors who
I knew were dependable and good men to work. We decided we
was goin' to have this Festival. When the l ogs corne in . we
unloaded 'ern at Gate 3; that ' s on the southeast corner of
this thing. We loaded ' ern just inside the gate where they
wouldn ' t be out in the street. Got a old man from Woodville ,
can 't even think of his name now ... do you know his name?
He ' s dead. If he'd walk up, I'd call his name. He had a
pair of bulls . And he brought 'ern up here and we pulled
them logs, one at a time, from the gate up to wher e we was
goin ' to build the ... about fifty, sixty yards . .. where we
Griffin 30.
G: was goin' t o build the l og cabin. And that was an or-dea
l in itself.
L: I bet it was.
G: Those kids enjoyed that . All the people, when we s tart-ed
pullin ' one of them logs , they ' d line up on each side
and he ' d put two or three of them little kids up on them
bulls. "Take that log on up there ." They'd take her right
up there . He ' d stand anywhere he wanted to and tell 'em to
stop. They ' d stop . They was well trained. Tom and Jerry was
their nameS. I remember their names well .
We were just goin' to build this thing for a demonstration.
It wasn't to be a permanent building at all . And so we didn ' t
cure the logs or we didn ' t even at that time, we didn 't
even take the bark off of 'em because we didn't think we'd
~
make as good a show ~ we just left the bark on and put ' em
up there.
So in the f i rst year in the four days, we built that log
cabin up with two rooms and a dog run through the middle .
And the rooms were about, I guess , about eight by ten and
the dog run was about the same size . And we got 'em up about
six feet high. A fireplace started on one end . That was in
the four days o f the Festival. Well , we just shut her down,
you know.
Next year, we went on up, put the roof on it . And we
split these shingles ; give demonstrations in that . I 'l l
tell you what , they was more participation by the people
Griffin 31.
G: and more watchin' goin' on at the log cabin than there
was any other place on the whole fourteen acres or whatever
it is; thirteen. I think.
Of course, we were makin' a show on every side. We'd
have as many demonstrations as we could go and everything.
Our orders were when somebody wants to talk, you talk; you
stop and tell 'em all you know about this thing. Well, that
was one of my jobs. I'm sort of like you, I didn't want as
much sweat as the rest of 'em. (laughter)
sweat tellin' a yarn.
L: Yes, you can.
But you can get
G: We'd talk to the people and you'd be surprised how many
women are interested in old tools and what they're used for
and how they're used. So we built that thing up. Then the
next year I brought a lot of flat rocks from the ranch; my
ranch out there. Loaded on with a front end loader and
brought 'em up here and dumped 'em out and we laid 'em in
there for a floor and we laid a sidewalk around that thing.
I always told the people they said, "This thing is pretty
small." ... I told 'em, "Big enough to raise twelve kids in."
And it was. Many a kid was raised in one just like it.
We didn't go i nto any pains about puttin' it up, the
nicest job, because we knew it was temporary. But we wanted
to give a demonstration of what a family would do when they
come into Texas without much to live on and go into the
wilderness and carve him out a home. He may not been the
Griffin 32.
G: best axe man in the world and he maya had a wife that
didn't mind packin' water a hundred or two yards to wash
her clothes in. They would get together and they would build
this cottage. All the j oints in it might not be perfect
but it would keep 'em away from the cold and keep the bear
out when they was gone . They didn't care if the bear come
up when they was there. They'd kill him and eat him. But
while they were gone they didn't want no bear gettin' in
there and tearin' in to all the grease and hog lard and
everything else, because they had to live, too .
Then we build a little loft on this thing. Then we de­cided
to build a front porch on it and we put a front porch
al l the way across it. After Henderson Shuffler ... and the
public in general is what caused it to stay there. We were
really just building a demonstration but it got so interesting
and public got so interested in it 'til they really kept
pushin' it, kept pushin ' it.
And I think the time will come when they push it again
because it is a drawing card for the Institute. I believe
it would have stood there another hundred year s . They told
me it was rottenin' down, which I know it has a few rotten
places in it but them old cabins over in east Texas had them
rotten places in ' em too, and all you do is go in there once
in a while and re- chink ' em and prize ' em up, put a block
under ' em and let 'em go. They'll be there a hundred year.
So that was my first impression of the Folklife Festival
Griffin 33 .
G: here in San Antonio.
L: Looking back over the years ... you ' ve been at every
one of these ... ?
G: I've been to the fourteen of 'em here and one of ' em
in Washington, D.C.
L: Looking back over the Folklife Festival years at the
Institute, do you look back on anyone that was a particular
favorite of yours and if you could re-live it you 'd go back
and do it?
G: Well, of course , I think we ought to start that log
cabin up again . Not try to build the best one in the world,
just build a demonstration . But it ought to be somebody out
there that knows what they're doin' , I mean to talk about the
way it's done; why they did it; why they put the dog run in
a log cabin. (That's the air conditioning system you
get in the dog run, you cool off. ) And I'll tell you what,
of the hundred thousands of people that come to the Institute,
to this Folklife Festival, everyone of 'em went through that
dog run, every year. They come back , the same ones: "I was
here last year . What are you doin' now? What are you goin'
to do next year?" They was a man yesterday come to see me.
He was from Columbus, Texas. He said, "Where's the log
cabin?" I said, "Oh, it rotted down. They tore it down."
"No," he said , "You 're still advertising it. " He opened his
book ... "You're still advertising it here. I brought my
boy up to see it." Said, "You know I come up here when
Griffin 34.
G: you was buildin' that thing. That's what I come up
here for, brought this boy to see it. Now it ain 't here."
I said, "Well we're thinkin' we might put another one .
Joanne mentioned it to me."
L: I thought the purpose when they took the first one down
that another one would go up. I thought, in fairly short
order. They were going t o try to make it a more permanent
structure the second time a r ound . That was my understanding.
G: Well, the man from Gilmer , Texas , come to me a fter we'd
t orn this one down , and said to me, "I'll t el l you what , if
you all want to build another log cabin, I'll furnish you
waltmanized logs to build that thing out of. And it'll stay
there forever ." Now that ' s been two, three years ago now;
soon after we tore it down. But I expect they're still
available. Gilmer has been very cooperative with us, you
know they have a strong Chamber of Commerce . They have old
Spot Baird and possumologist Dick Potter .
They have the timber up there. They like t o advertise .
They're very cooperative. They bring us shingle splittin '
pin oak every year. Bill Clarke over in Nacogdoches does
the same thing. Dr. Abernathy, Ronnie Wolfe . I tell you
Ronnie Wolfe is one o f the best craftsman in the United
States .. . I don't care what anybody says. He 's a school
teacher ; he's a principal o f a little ... what's the name of
t hat little t own where he come from, out of Nacogdoches?
The three they sung the song about?
L: I know, I can't ...
Griffin 35.
G: The railroad song?
L: Timson?
G: Timson; that's where he corne from. Timson. Now later on
we decided we'd build a log kitchen so Bill Clark said , "I'll
get you the logs. If you haul 'ern." So I took a big cattle
trailer down to Timson; first took it to Nacogdoches and
stayed all night, my wife and I, got hold o f Dr. Abernathy
and Bill Clark. "Where we goin' to get them logs?" "Well ,
we'll meet you i n the morning at eight o ' clock ." They met
me and we went t o Timson, Texas. And there's where I met
Ronnie Wolfe. "Where we goin' to get them logs?" "Well,"
he said, "This lumber company about where we could get 'ern."
Said, "Get ' ern anywhere you want to. I know where there's
some good ones." And we went down into the East Texas piney
woods where the pine trees was so high and so tall and so
much alike and the daylight was gone. The owls were hootin'
in the daytime down there; it was so dark.
We took some chain saws and in about a hour and a half,
we loaded that trailer. That Ronnie Wolfe never let one
hang up on another tree and they were this close together.
He'd look up there and turn around this way and that a way
and he'd cut that thing and it'd fall plumb to the ground.
We'd drag her out and trim it up, cut it and put it in that
trailer.
Dr. Abernathy said, "Ronnie you're gettin' tired . Let
me have that chain saw a little bit." The first one he cut
Griffin
G: he hung it up in there. We like to never got it down.
That's the diffe r e nce between a real craftsman and maybe
a English teacher. (laughter)
36.
Ab, his heart's in it; he a good man. He's good for the
Institute. Ab and Gardner and Stan Alexander .
L: I certainly can ' t afford to say anything nice about
Abernathy because he ' s a good friend of mine. (laughter)
G: Well , he's a good friend of mine , too . He come by soon
as they unloaded.
L: I wouldn't want him to think I was saying nice things
about him behind his back .
G: I'll tell you what , Ronnie Wolfe can do anything. He
can play the fiddle with the best. He can play the guitar .
He can make a basket. He can sharpen a saw. He can fell
them trees. Do anything. I claim to be the same type of
man; do anything.
And , that's what Texas was built on. People that come
in and had to make do with what they had . That's the reason
they carried these tools . You did with tools or you did
without .
L : Do you know anybody 's got a better tool collection
than yours?
G: I claim to have the best in the world and I haven't
been questioned. I don't know.
L: Better than Dr. Stratemann over in New Braunfels? I 'm
not too familiar with it.
Griffin 37 .
G: Oh yeah . I'm not too familiar with it, either . But
I have other tools. I don't bring all of 'em up here because
the tool box that I have onl y weighs 2500 pounds, when I
fill it . But if they want to question me after the t ool
collection. I can rack up a lot more .
L : Is there any organization of tool collectors? Are tool
collectors organized at al l like stamp collectors or book
collectors?
G: I don ' t know . They may be. They come by my place and
say, "Are these tools for sale?" I said, " I don't buy or
sell . This is just my ranch tools; been in my fami ly for
over a hundred years. Since 1861 that I know for sure and
before that , some of 'em."
But all my famil y , as far back as I know, are lovers
of good tools and good guns.
L: It's rather rare , really , when t he collecting instinct
stays alive and so strong in generation after generation of
the same family. Americans have never been good about that .
We ' ve always been a disposable society. Somethin ' gets
old, it's either repl aced or you throw it away and upgrade
with something e lse and so consequently you don ' t have these
big aggregations of tools or whatever.
G: Well , I tell you , World War II , they told me over there
when they got through, they just pushed them bull dozers
off the ships into the ocean. Great big bull dozers . Talk
about disposable .
Griffin 38.
L: Well, in my own f amily experience , my folks moved to
a farm and ranch there near San Marcos in 1944. The place
had been a farmstead for a hundred, more than a hundred years,
prior to that time. Almost exactly a hundred years at that
time. Here were all these old tools and things out there.
They didn't mean anything to my daddy. So he donated to one
of the scrap drives there a t the end of World War II . And
if we had those things ... (tape t rouble) those old tools
and implements that were on our place there, well, my daddy
didn't ... they represented hard work to him.
G: Oh yeah . There's lots of work in ' em .
L: And so he said , get rid of it because they were a
clutter around there.
G: People encouraged me, "Why don't you build a museum here
on the road. You could make a fortune just with your own
s tuff."
L: You won't make any fortune.
G: No. I told 'em, "I don 't want to foo l with that thing .
But I don't want no junk haulers comin' around my place."
We have these scrap haulers, you know. They come around
there. I live probably a hundred yards from the highway.
Stuff stacked back in there: trucks, this and that, wagons.
They come in here and say, " I want to buy this stuff from
you . I can give you ... " I say, "Get out of here. Get
out . I don't sell nothin'~ I need it the next day. (laughter )
L: Yeah. I've got a brother-in-law like that .
Griffin
G: I save everything .
L: Well sir, I guess that's about it . It ' s past time ...
G: The gates are open.
39 .
L : The gates are open. I guess your wife and daughter are
wondering where you are .
G: They ' re doin ' all right.
L : They're accustomed to doing a good job.
G: My son- in- law i s the most interested ... and my fourth
daughter, Ruthie Smith , and Rick Smith he runs a t ractor
agency in Lytle; Ford tractor agency . And he got together
his ... went up to Kansas and got his grand daddy's tool box
and everything and he ' s taken up shingle splittin '. He ' s
doin ' all the shingle splittin ' up there for Bill Clarke and
them. Has been for the last ... well, ever since we started
the log cabin . Them little girls got Shingle Splitters
across the back of their shirts. They like it .
L : Having a big time.
G: Me. I' d rather play the fiddle . (laughter)
L: To each his own.
END OF INTERVIEW. Tape I , side 2 , 24 minutes .
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~ Festival of AmeriCan FoJkJife
~ an<;1 responded by providing tale
1~ spinners, blues singers, Indian ;1 dancers and a tasle of Southern
i' . food. :" . .'.
~ . ~Iost. of Ihe Texas performers
i L _________~ :-_""'!~ ___,~ ~~~f. Aarnrtiovneido . .:aArlbyo Tarude s.dtahye .!...r "o"~c rsaa!~.II!I!' 6,____. ..._ __•~ ---...- ---
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I ). "'4kers;, ,Iolk : tellcrs)(H0l.\d.o
1 \i, cro~c~ ' ~and . Bob M!"'P,!lY!l; ~r,d
If. women who make lye soap. 'cj;-' l t· '>::Th~'( ~ '. Institute.,':'; of )".Te~as
d Cultures,', newly ': establIshed,\at
:;;;: San"!;; Antonio's He m.l s.F-ali..~
. ------"¥wt"'@m7d'!P'}'KrRm-nrtt,.-doe; =rp.lFi i,ciq'e un~erwrote the transportation'lli!;..tt;l!2!'lR .. ""''''' ........ !!'"'''' ... ....... ....
', _' . _.~_~;.~;. ~'~:: ;":'::. ;'~Lji i:': ~!::\ :;'1:,~:;:: ;·~·~Hlt~~ . ~j l~~~if~~~~~i? IflJ~~;a:~ ,\~:i·.~;:~e~{J:-i.~~t;l~:',;.tH81·,.i; ;:; ;:~~ . . . i:~ varying nationalities h a v e f I
~:2 contribuled to what' comprises
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~s Texas: . , . . ' . . . . /
; f· Craftsmen from Texas setting
; e up 'shop along th~ Smithsonian
'.~) Instilute Mall at Ihe "esUval '
I.ru' 71'$t't z'--2; 1(;llttl ntmt'rr.j f!9IilJ'A!Ap;4w; ',,;,~ include bJacksmith , J u 11 ~ St
• •. - .I'" . J Moultry, saddlcmaker . Oscar~. ,- "~;~~':':': -:<"; '- \.,,~ . . ~i· · ';'~:~i·' -"'~'-·
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Carvajal Jr.. gr~; •• , : i i:1 :':;;::;.;l:.'r:i·:: .. )~:;;:;~.;\:";t1;;~";),;,.'.:'.~"
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Marcos •. lye [' .­
·S. 'Dorothy ~
Mrs. Mary fj J ohllson. and . a gl'OU~ of persons
~1 who will show how (ood 2nd
~;t medicine ' ~re derived {rom
~ s desert plants .
.Ie Twenty.three
:'0 District DC
slates and the
Colwnbia · . al'C
-~1 repr"esented at the ' . live-day
~ {~stival~
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