THE INSTITUTE OF TEXAN CULTURES
ORAL HISTORY PROGRAM
INTERVIEW WITH: Mamie Johnson
DATE: April 11, 1988
PLACE: Weimar, Texas
INTERVIEWERS: Joan and Sid Ballard
JB: We are interviewing Mamie Johnson on early times and
life in Weimar. Mamie, when and where were you born?
J: About three miles out of town in Weimar. I was born
about three miles out of town -
JB: What year?
J: 1896.
JB: What was your home like?
J: Well, I tell you, my mother was a widow. My father
died when I was quite young. I hardly knew him. And then
we moved to town and we lived out there between the bridge
and the Hinton home, over on that side of town. I had four
sisters and three brothers; seven children in our family.
One of 'em passed before we moved on this side of town about
1904, 1903 or 1904.
And my mother died in 1905. From then, I lived with an
auntie; then with a cousin in Waelder about two years. Then
I came back to Weimar and lived with an uncle until I got
marr ied. Got marr ied in 1916. So between that time I went
to school after I came back from Waelder. Then I went to
school here, not a school, but just a two story, one big
JOHNSON 2
J: building, two story building. went the whole time
there •.• had what they called a cupola on top of it, where
they rang the bell. And it had a fence around it where you
had to go up on this side and down on the other side.
SB: Like a stile.
J: So I went to school there until I finished the fifth
grade. And after I finished fifth grade, my uncle then
moved out on the farm. And we stayed out on the farm, south
of town one year, and then the next year we moved out on the
north end of town, and we farmed out there - with my uncle,
his wife and two children. And then after then, well, we
moved back to town then, and we farmed out on the other side
of town again, but we didn't move out there; we lived right
there. So in 19 and .•• about 19 and 20 - no, about 1914 -
we were living in town then, and I started getting - almost
taking care of myself and I worked at different jobs with
different people •.• the kind of work I could do at that age
up until September in 19 and 14; then I worked for a family
of Laas family. But my family worked for them in their
lifetime. And my mother washed and ironed for them in her
lifetime.
So then I got a job at Grandmaw Laas and her daughter.
I worked for them 'til I got married in 1916. About the
27th of December. And me and my husband lived together just
about 25 years or more, and we had fou r children .•• one
little girl and three sons ..• And my little girl passed
when she was about 1 •.• not one year old, a little better
JOHNSON 3
J: than one year old.
And then my husband, he decided he wanted to go to the
city and live. I didn't never like city life, so I didn't
go there with him. So he went to San Antonio. Later two of
my boys went up there, and one of them passed up there in
February. My oldest boy, he was •.• joined the navy, and he
served 30 years in the navy. And he now lives in Baltimore,
Maryland. My youngest son lives in Houston. He has a
family ... three daughers and one son. One grand-daughter
and one grandson.
So that's 'bout the only closest family that I have
now. But one sister and 'course she lives in .•• she lives
in California. And we never did live together after my
mother died, 'cause my Auntie still kept her. And my cousin
kept me. So I didn't see them any more 'til about .•. my
family anymore for about three years, 'cause they all
moved to Houston.
JB: Now when you were going to school, you went through the
5th grade?
J: Fifth grade. I was promoted to 6th grade, but we
moved. I was promoted to 6th grade in 1912. And that's
when my uncle, they moved out of town. And then after we
kept moving from one farm to the other, why, I just had to
do for myself.
JB: Tell us more about the school. What kind of books that
you had ••• was there a slate or desk?
J: Oh, yes, they had ordinary primers and spelling books
JOHNSON 4
J: and things. Not nothing like the books we have now.
And
JB: Did you have a slate?
J: We had to buy slates and things like that.
SB: I had a slate when I went to school.
J And we just had ... oh, about four or five months of
school at that time. It didn't last very long. We didn't
have no long term o f school. We didn't have what you call
high school and graduate school and all like that. It was
just a color ed school, it was called all the time.
JB: Was it one big room? Or
J: No, it was •.• it was a big building .•. was about four
rooms downstairs and about four upstairs. I think that's
about ... a bou t four, because we didn't have many teachers
then and until later on. Then they b uilt a •.. after they
built ..• moved the white school across the tracks there, and
a f ter they built it across the front, over there, then they
built another school down here. That's the second school
that I know about that's down there now .
JB: That's down there now, uh huh.
J: But the other school was - after they added what they
called ••• they moved a building from up there after they
moved the big school and built over there, why then they
built another school where they taught cooking and things
like that.
SB: Home Economics?
J: And 'course after I growed up they had a parents -
JOHNSON 5
J: teacher organization, after they organized that, that
was later ... in the later years. But back in that day, they
didn't have nothing but just school, that's all.
JB: Did you go .•• you ••. did I understand that later you
went to this sort of home economics-like classes? Or did
you teach them?
J: No. I jest ••• we were jest ..• I didn't never teach
anything, but we always ••• in the ••• the Parent-Teachers
Association always would, once a year, they had prepared
dinner for the trustees of the school and .•.
JB: Gona have to ••. O.K., we lost that pa r t. Let's pick
up about where you were telling us about your home here.
J: Oh, I moved here in 1932, when the doctor told me to
just make this my home here. And I jest thought that was
jest for the time, but when Mr. Yoder bought the place, why,
he told me that was in the will, that I stay here as long as
I wanted to or as long as I lived. And from Dr. Felder's
place, 'cause this whole lot belongs to him, you see, then
not to sell it to nobody that would want t o make me move
from here. And of course I used to work for Mr. Yoder's
mother, wash and iron for her, when they first came to
Weimar, you know. And before he was born. And so he says,
"Well, I wouldn't have made you move anyway, because you was
always so good t o my mother." And so that's ..• that
settled that, but I just stayed here after the ..• up until
year before last, they paid
his estate, but he r .•. his
they sent me a check from
there's just the grand-
JOHNSON 6
J : daughter in the family now, and her husband is in the
nurs ing home and al l, and so •.. I guess when the father .,.
when her father's estate gave out , well then, then I started
pay ing him then.
JB: How much do you pay for living here?
J: Ni ne doll ars a month.
JB: Now , you sa i d this building was over on the other
street .•.
J: On the front street ... on Ma in St reet , right abou t
along where the drug s t ore is . And it was a confec tionery
store in front, where they sold i ce c ream . J ust think!
when you could get cold drinks for fi ve cents then.
JB: Cold d ri nks for five cents.
J: Five cents. Go over then and get a great , big glass .,.
some mi lk shake or glaces and things like that. Five cents.
And back in them days , you didn't make much money because
people then was working fo r a dollar a day, or picking
cotton f or a dollar a hund red. Chopping cotton f o r a dollar
a day or a dollar a hundred , and at that time, everything
else was cheap too . 'Cause ' round here •.• down in this
section sugar was Sf a pound. Coffee was Sf a pound.
Bu t you had to grind it, didn ' t have this ready ground •.•
J B: Ready-ground •••
J: And butter and things like that, t hey used t o bring
that Momma used to bring that to town •. they used t o
sell it out of a barrel.
JB: Out of barrels, uh huh. And you 'd buy it just by the
JOHNSON 7
JB: pound •.•
J: You'd buy it by weight, but you could buy a nickel's
worth ... a dime's worth ••• or any amount you wanted.
JB: The amount you wanted, whatever you had ..•
J: And that made things kinda even with what the price
people was getting for money. And I think about it now .•.
sugar Sf a pound, now you wouldn't get enough on a spoon for
five cents.
JB: Not even enough to sweeten your coffee.
J: Not enough to sweeten one cup of coffee.
JB: What else was in this the confection was in the
front of the building.
J: The front, yeah. He had two men in the back there.
Van Arthur. He had •.. he was a justice of the peace and he
had his office in the back, and his son had this whole •.•
it was a store and confectionery in the front there. They
sold ice cream: all kinds of little things like that. That
was along back in 1915, 1916, on up until they built
they moved this house; then they started building on the
front street there. On the corner where the old bank is
used to be a saloon.
JB: What was it like?
J: That's where they sold beer, whiskey, and everything
like that .•• two brothers run it, right there on the
corner.
JB: They have any fights going on in there or anything?
J: Oh, yeah. Back then, children ••. like childrens in
JOHNSON 8
J: the street now; children couldn't be in the street
hardly, after sayan hour because they used to ride up and
down the streets here, and if they felt like it and had
enough liquor in them, they liable to shoot her shoot
the lights out; anything like that.
JB: Shoot the st reet lights out? Or lights in the house
J: Lights in the saloon, if they felt like it.
JB: Whatever light they came to.
J: If they didn't like what was going on, and children ••.
they had a •.• the first light plant they had was right down
••• was built right down beneath the gin. Old man Lytle's
gin. He built the place ••. place where they had lights and
things. And 'course they had a curfew ... all children had
to be off the streets by 9 o'clock. Blow a whistle about 9
o'clock and the kids away from home 'bout that time would
make it on home.
JB: Just lickin' in for home, huh?
J: Yeah, they was lickin' for home.
JB: Not because of what they would do but for their own
protection, huh?
J: That's what they would. And that street, then
wasn't no paved streets. Just had boards ..• board walk all
the way up to .•• right up here by this, uh ••• tourist
court starts, well, that was old man Walker's office right
back on the alley part, and his lumber yard was across the
..• across the street. And they had board walk all down
JOHNSON 9
J: that street. It used to be stores and hat shops and
different things, all down that street •.• on this side of
the street.
SB: Board walk
JB: An old board walk.
J: Yeah, a board walk.
JB: And then the street across was nothing but mud •..
J: And the street would get nothing but mud. People
carried their cattle to the slaughter pen, or whatever they
called it up there now, used to pass by on horses and herd
of cattle, goin' right on up this muddy street here taking
their oxen, whatever they had.
JB: It was on up the road from you here?
J: And out here in front here, it was very low ... the
street was low along there, and I used to have a bridge
right across in front of my house there. And every time it
come a big rain, the bridge was washed out and down the
curb. So I finally couldn't .,. got tired of goin' down
there dragging it back, so after I got some hedges there, I
got me a chain and chained the bridge to the hedges.
(laughter)
JB: That's a good idea.
J: They laughed about it said, "I've seen people chain
ho rse s and cows .,. never seen nobody chain a bridge." I
said, "Well, I just got tired of ge tting •.• going after
that bridge, and when the water would get high along there,
that bridge would slim on a fur as it could go, just like
JOHNSON 10
J: dog would order steak, but as the water come back then ,
all I ' d have t o do was go back out there and straighten i t .
Didn 't have to go bring it back.
JB: You didn 't have t o go bring it back.
J: Oh, yes?
I been here all my life, in this town .•• it's about
114 years old. 'Course our church where I belong to was the
first church built here in weimar.
JB: Very first church in Weimar?
J: First church built in Weimar.
JB: How about that.
J: Colored A & E Church.
SB: Did they have a good doctor here?
J: Oh , used to have good doctors here. Didn't have no
heart special , but doctors then came to your home.
SoB Sure.
JB: What was his name?
J: Dr. Pottis.
JB: Dr. Pottis?
J: Otto pottis, and old man Charlie Cook ••. he was
downtown too •.• my husband worked for him, and I worked for
Dr. Pottis.
JB: They would come to the house
J: Yeah. Then the doctors came to the house, then and
would wait on you there. They didn't have no hospitals.
Women confined to have children .• they had what they call a
midwife, and not no docto r. So I told 'em I was glad I got
JOHNSON
J: my children in time for it cost ..• what it cost to
have children now ... cost you almost cost your life.
11
JB: Just about. Do you remember any of the remedies that
they had for ••.
J: Folk? They used to have what they called Sienna tea.
That's what they'd give children when they got sick with
anything, and from that the castor oil and to rub with
Sloan's linament.
JB: Sloan Linament? I remember seeing that.
J: Uh huh. And they'd give you Black Draw [Draught).
That's something I hated worse than I hated ..•
JB: What was that?
J: Black Draw. It's a powder kinda stuff. Now they have
it in liquid. But they used to have it dry, and you put so
much of it into water, and it always get in my teeth all the
time, and I never would take it. And castor oil.
SB: Castor oil?
JB: Castor oil. I remember getting that.
J: Yeah, well, back in them days ... they used to have a
weed people used to get and when children had fever, they'd
go out and get some kind of weed and boil it and bathe them
in that. And my youngest son had pneumonia, and the doctor
would come there and they had me putting something called
antiphlogiston or somepin or other. And it didn't do him
any good, so the old remedy that the old people had was
tallow and? vasoline or somepin like that, and heat it and
wrap it way over that •.• all around him in a towel, and
JOHNSON
J: that's what I cured him with.
JB: So rt of like a mustard plaster?
12
J: Yeah. Uh huh. Somepin like that. 'Cause he was just
two years old ••• I couldn't use nothing too str ong, but I'd
been using ..• the doctor's aide come and put all this other
stuff on him ••• seemed like it wasn't doing him any good,
so
SB: I just had pneumonia.
J: What's that?
SB: I just had pneumonia.
JB: He's just now getting over it. But of course now they
give you all these antibiotics and things like that.
J: Yeah. Whole lotta pills and all that stuff. I takes
now three different kinds of pills. One with my meal, one
before meals - three times a week, and one after meals. And
I'm 'bout as crippled now as I was ten years ago.
Crippleder now than I was ten years ago.
JB: Back in those days, they didn't have all those pills
they do now.
J: Oh, no. Compound cathartic pills. And they taste like
everything. Bad .•• aw, they was bad taste. Them was the
kind of pills they used to have.
JB: What was that?
J: Compound cathartic.
JB: Compound cathartic. Did they make them up themselves?
J: Naw, they used to buy them from the d r ug ••. that's
what the druggist was selling •.• those kinds of pills.
JOHNSON 13
JB: What did they give you those pills for?
J: Cold or feve r or if you suffered with constipation or
anything.
JB: Just anything. It was just .•. if you were sick, you
got that.
J: If you was sick ••• just like now. About this
'a rthuritis', see, they give anything t hey give you is
for 'a r thuritis'. Every time you go to a doctor now, don't
care where you got a pain or anywhere ..• it's 'arthuritis'.
I told my doctor the other day, I don't believe on it for
everything.
JB: No, I don't think so either.
J: No. But that's what they give me. That's the reason I
suffer with my back. I fell here in the house, and sit flat
on Standing up and both my legs give away and I was flat
on the floor. And it jarred me up inside somewhere, and if
I sit a long time, why this side just hurts, hurts, hurts.
And right up my back. So he says, "Arthuritis •••
arthuritis."
JB: Did you have any other ••• did you do any other of your
own home remedies? Just Ike when your boy was sick •.• did
you have any other , do you know?
J: No. After the doctor •.• after I found out that
antiphlogiston that was like a plaster , like. Salve. But
just looked like it didn't do him any good because he had it
awful bad .• he was just about 2 years old and he wanted
••• he had fever, of course •• he'd want water and when I'd
JOHNSON 14
J: bring it, he'd start crying because it just hurt him to
even to get up. But a funny thing ..• I just cried and
prayed and went on, tried to find out what else to do.
then I thought on this remedy - we had oil heaters then
didn't have no gas stove , we had wood stoves.
JB: Wood stove?
So
...
J: Yeah, I had a wood stove, and cooked on a wood stove.
But I wasn't living here then. I was living on the other
side of town, and so I put that on that heater and warmed it
.put it in a pan and warmed that stuff and heated it.
And he had been running and crying around about it, and I
wrapped him up real good with that warm stuff around him and
then just wrapped his whole body up with a towel, and the
next morning, he wanted to get out of bed. And he was
hungry. And the funniest anything anybody ever heard of in
my life. He said he was hungry. And I said , "What you want
to eat?" He wanted black-eyed peas and burnt cornbread.
JB: Burnt cornbread?
J: Burnt cornbread.
JB: Did you make that
J: Two years old, and that's what he requested to eat when
he felt like eating wanted to eat. And so it was a lady
staying with me at the time, where she'd come every day and
help me out with him 'cause he wouldn't let nobody do
nothing for him but me. He wouldn't take water or nothing
from nobody but me. And so she said, "Why, Mamie, you gonna
give it to him?" I said, "Yeah." And I thought about it
JOHNSON 15
J: and I says, "I don't know why he want it, but that what
he say he wants."
So I cooked the peas till they got real tender and
everything, and let a piece of his bread get burned, and he
eat it. And after then he just got up from there. He was
very weak, though, I'd have to almost tie him in his little
chair after he sit up. His little voice was so weak, he
used to tell me , "Momma, I can't hardly talk." I said,
"You'll learn how to talk again after while." ' Cause he
could talk good for t wo years, but the doctor would try t o
fool him and give him castor oil , you know. He'd tell him
you know, "Corne on, Clarence, take this and take this
orange . II III don't want it.11 "Come on." lINaw," he'd say ,
"You got cas tor oil in it." And so "Take this; it's
good for you. I'll give you a nickel." "I don't want no
nickel." He asked his daddy, he say, "How old is this
boy?" And he say, "He's two years old." And he said ,
"Well, he can talk better than any two year old I ever
heard." But he did not want that castor oil. And they
teased his daddy now every time his children would get sick ,
they'd say that's the first thing he'd want to give them.
And they'd say, "Well, Momma says that you didn't want to
take it when you was little, now you want to give it to us
all the time." But he did not want no castor oil.
SB: It's awful stuff.
JB: It really is. I remember when my mother would give it
to us , too. Line us up.
JOHNSON 16
JB: When you were out on the farms and all, what kind of
crops d i d they have?
J: Cotton, corn, and where we was, we just planted cotton
and corn; the farm where we were.
JB: How did they get the cotton to town?
J: On a wagon. Horse and wagon. See, they didn't
plenty horses, mules, oxen. I even plowed oxen.
J:B You plowed with oxen?
J: Not plowed, but plant.
JB: Plant with them?
J: Plant. My uncle used the oxen most of the time. I
used a team. I never did plow, but I did everything else on
a farm, but plow. Pulled corn, chopped cotton, picked
cotton, pulled cor n, cut tops.
JB: What did you ge t paid, or what did the people get paid
then for chopping the cotton, or picking it?
J : See, we called ourselves farming ..• my uncle •••
I did most of the farming. My uncle didn't do nothing but
doing the plowing mostly. Kinda manage around. And so the
last farming we did, I told him ..• we didn 't make much of a
crop then, 'cause we didn 't stay out there •.• we just
walked .•. I had to walk out there .•. 'way out there on
over ... the highway. That's where the farm was on •.• on
the other side of the old highway.
And so the ne xt year, in 1914, some man had offered him
a place and said, "Nuthin didn 't grow there but what you
plant." I told him, "Well, you get that place for yourself,
JOHNSON 17
J: 'cause I'm not goin' out there. I'm tired of it •..
work in' for nuthin," I said. He said when you got this
other place, he said, "Nuthin grow but what you plant. " And
everything growed but what you plant, it seemed like.
JB: Those weeds grow , huh?
J: And it was new ground and we had to cut the bushes and
all like that. That broke me up on farming, so I haven't
did nuthin' on a farm since then. But I could do most
anything on a farm. I liked to milk. The old man Bacon
sold butter, and he had a bunch of cows, and every evenin'
we would help the boys milk, and then they'd separate it,
and he made butter. And he sh ipped it. Shipped the
butter.
JB: What did he put it in to ship?
J: We had little crates, you know. Butter crates.
JB: Wooden boxs?
J: Wooden boxes, like. And they'd •.• make it and then
they'd put it in little cases, and that's what he did
the o l d man, that's what he did. The boys all farmed and
different things, but that's what he did. He sold butter.
And every evenin', after we'd get through milkin', they'd
give us ••• after they separated , then they would give us a
whole water bucket of milk. And we'd go home, and that's
what we had for supper ••• milk and cornbread. I say, you
offer a kid milk and cornbread now he'd might could kill
you.
JB: What other things did you have at home to eat?
JOHNSON 18
JB: besides the milk and cornbread?
J: Oh, other than that, we ate normally. We always ••• I
always stayed where we had plenty to eat, bu t at night,
that's what we'd get. That is what we'd eat at night, was
milk and cornbread . •• Each o ne of us ., there was three
kids of us ••• we had a big bowl, and my Auntie would cook a
big cornbread, and we'd all eat milk and cornbread at
supper.
SB: That's good.
JB: He still does that.
J: And we was healthy and didn't have to be going to no
doctor or nuthin' .
SB: I still eat it. I still eat it.
J: Huh?
SB: I still eat cornbread and milk.
J: I do too. Sometime at night that's what I eat at night
sometime. If I have some cornbread for dinner, then I get
some of it and ...
SB: Break it up?
J: And put it in a bowl •. not a bowl •.• a glass or
something or a mug or something, and fill it with bread
and milk, and I sit right in here and eat it, and go to bed.
I still enjoy the milk and cornbread.
S8: I do too.
JB: That's what he does. I think we missed before, when
you were telling us about the sugar cane and making syrup
out here. Would you tell us about that again, Mamie?
JOHNSON 19
J: Old Man George Teller used to have a molasses mill out
here, right on the highway goin' toward Schulenburg, and the
people used to come from different places and take they cane
out there. They used to raise lotta sugar cane all 'round
in here. And regular, just the regular sorghum cane, you
know. And they'd make syrup out there. They'd go out there
and that's where they ... r think they have somebody to •••
r think they would •.• hitch somepin to it. And a horse
would turn that, and that would squeeze the syrup out and
they used to make good syrup out there.
SoB Then they had to cook it ...
JB: Would the wagons go through?
J: Right out that street there, right up that Front Street
on through town there, and going on out there.
JB: Did they have a curfew? We missed that part too. Did
they have a curfew for the children and all?
J: Well, that's what r said. After they built the light
plant here, they had a curfew 9 o'clock children had to
be off the street. You didn't find •.. see no children on
the street like you do now anytime of night. Because they
just wouldn't allow it.
JB: What would happen to them if they were caught on the
street after 9 o'clock?
J: They catch 'em they'd tell 'em they was gonna lock 'em
up, and so they never would catch none of 'em.
JB: Children were all high-tailing it home ..•
J: We had a place over there they called "the calaboose"
JOHNSON 20
J: ••. they didn't call it a jail •. they called it a •..
right across there, back of the hotel, they had a little
building over there they called the calaboose. They'd say
they'd lock 'em up till they ... lock anybody up •••
grown-up, mostly •.• they'd never lock no children up there,
but they'd lock up any grown-up •.. them that gotta hold of
too much liquor or did something or 'nother. They'd lock
'em up over there and if they did something bad enough,
they'd lock 'em up over there till they could come .•. from
Columbus, the county seat ••• and come get 'em, and take 'em
to county jail.
JB: Did they have saloons and all, around here?
J: Oh, yes. Yeah, they had several saloons. One on this
corner and they had one on the cor ner on the Front Street,
and they had one there where the radio shop is, and then
they had one over on the other street, right down from
Cassel's Market. Yellow Saloon, Brakeman's Saloon, and
Golden place .•• saloon there on the corner ... and then ?
moved out and they had a saloon right down from the post
office.
JB: Did they ever have any problems with the men when they
would get too much liquor? Would they ride up and down the
street or anything?
J: No. 'Cause all of 'em were pretty tough guys .• they
didn't fool with 'em. And if they did, they liable to have
a shootin' or anything. Several men have got shot between
one saloon and the other 'un, because they'd get in a brawl
JOHNSON 21
J: or somepin or other like that.
JB: Would they ride their horses up and down the street?
J: Up and down the street ... yeah, they'd ride the horses
up and down the street ... that's the reason they kept
children off the streets. Children didn't be on the street
much even in the daytime unless they come to town after
somthin'. Then they went back. Like you see children
playing up and down the street now, they didn't do that. My
children lived up here, and they didn't go to town •.• even
after I moved up here, my children never •.. I never let
them ••. they were boys, but they never .•• I never found
them in the streets till they started shining ••• they 'd be
down there ••• working or if I sent 'em, but playing in the
streets, oh, no , this I never let 'em do that. And a whole
bunch of the boys up on this end ••• this is where they
would come and stay all day long. We'd make ice cream and
lemonade •• the white and the c olored boys ..• was all up
in this section. Mr. Yoder and Beverly Holt and all of the
different ones. And they would come right here •.• that's
after they'd go huntin' and they come back? and barbecuing
rabbits. All back out there used to be just wood ••. where
all those nice homes is out there ... and they used to go
out there huntin'. Didn't have no guns ••• they'd go with
dogs and sticks. And they'd kill r abbits and things, and
they'd come back and barbecue 'em, and that's right where
they stayed, right up, right along up there.
The loveliest thing, last night, just as I came home
JOHNSON 22
J: from church, Henry Ford, they used to have a big home
right up where the camp is where the tourist place is
and Mama and my Auntie and myself used to wash for them.
And he and my oldest boy came up together, and he saw my
picture in the paper, and he live in San Antonio, and he
called me last night. I was so surprised, I didn't know
what to do. I really didn't know where he was. And he say
he was at one of his cousin's house. And he saw my picture
and he knew I must have been still around. And asked me
about my oldest son, 'cause he worked up there with them.
And they all played together up and down this street, right
here.
JB: Well, then, when the cowboys would ride up and down the
street, they would shoot out the lights and all?
J: Only if they got liquored up or somepin or other
they didn't have many lights, but they would they liable
to come to the saloon and would shoot the light out in there
if anybody act like he didn't like him. 'Course if you
didn't bother .•• didn't say nuthin •.• they ...
JB: Leave you alone .•.
J: But they used to be some very rough riders around in
here, they used to have some pretty, pretty, pretty rough
riders.
JB: Did they drive the cattle through town or anything?
J: Yes, they drive their cattle through ••• right up this
street here. And they had a somepin or other ••• I don't
know what they call it they call it Ogden place now, but
JOHNSON 23
J: that's where they had a trail to market or anywhere to
sell 'ern .• they was goin ' to San Antonio to sell 'ern, or
where ever they was goin ', they'd drive 'ern .•• men on
horse-back, and they would pull 'ern right up that street.
JB: Just right up the street.
J: Right up the street.
JB: Probably in a corral or something up there till they
got through
J: Out of town somewhere, they would always corne right on
by there ••• I stand out there lots of times; watch 'ern.
JB: What kind of ..• in the confection store •.. what kind
of items did they sell there?
J: In the confectionary stand? Ice cream, banana splits ,
glacies, and candies and popcorn, and jes anything like
that.
JB: How was the sugar and flour and stuff like that
packaged? Was it .••
J: Well, they used to have flour in barrels ••• that's the
way they used to ship them barrels ..• and you bought
whatever amount you wanted. And then they started sellin'
it in sacks. Small sacks of flour ..• used to be about 95f
the larger sacks were more
JB: But before that, you just went in and bought •••
J: Yeah, you just corne in and buy just as much as you
want. They had scoops in 'ern ... in the barrel, they had
flour in a big barrel, and you could go in there and buy
JOHNSON 24
SB: And lard, the same way.
J: And lard, lard, butter, lard, flour, all used to COme
in barrels.
JB: All used to be in barrels. You'd just go in and buy a
pound or
J: Buy amount you want, a pound or ...
JB: Or whatever you wanted
J: Because in World War I, they had it rationed. And each
family depends on how many was in that family ... got so
many pounds of flour a month.
JB: Oh. What else did they ration during the .•• was that
World War I they did that?
J: Yeah. World War I ; they rationed then.
JB: I know they rationed things in World War II. What did
you have ••• a coupon, or something like that? How did they
know how much you were allowed?
J; Well, I think you had some kind of something. I just
don't rememeber, 'cause I never •.. never •.. I don't think
I ever buyed anything on that. I don't know, somehow or
other, even when they had the WPA, or what they call it,
where you got so much. They never ••• I was working for Old
Man Ross •.. he was a banker •.• and they never would let me
buy nuthin for anything. 'Course I was workin' for him, but
I was jes gettin' paid for my washin' and ironin' •. , I
wasn't gettin' no pay from them for other than that. So I
tried once, and after then I just went on and made it right
myself. One day when they had the WPA, they had to get in
JOHNSON 25
J: line and they give you flour and so many yards of
outing goods or somepin like that; different things like
that. So I was .. , happened to be .• , I used to sell the
San Antonio Register paper, and so I was on the streets
there and talkin' to some of the people that was lined up
and was standin' out there, waitin' to be called in, so when
they tell 'em, "Oh, come on in and get what you want to
get." supplies or whatever it was, so I just got in line
too. And went on in and one of the men •.• he and his
daughter, Selma, say, "You, too?" And Mr. Gembler says,
"Yeah, her too," says, "She has three little boys to take
care of, and their daddy is not with 'em," and says,
"They're not old enough boys to work old enough to get
jobs," and says, "Give her some too." So they give me a sack
of flour and enough outing to cover a quilt and something
else, so I just walked right on out, with the sack of flour
on my shoulder.
JB: Good for you.
J: And walked all down here, and so afterwards, "I didn't
know you signed up ..... I says, "No. I tried to sign up
over on the other side and they didn't let me, so I stood up
there. Hadn't Mr. Gembler hadn't spoke ... Mr. Gembler
hadn't of spoke, I don't know what, but I always traded with
him then ••• Old Man Gembler. He knew me and he knew that I
had children I had those three boys and those three boys
could go to town anytime when they was just hardly in their
teens, and they could go to the market of Gembler's and get
JOHNSON 26
J: anything they wanted. And tell him when they was gonna
pay for it, and they could get credit, like that.
END OF TAPE I, SIDE 1, 45 MINUTES.
TAPE I, SIDE 2.
JB: Let's go back now to the early times when the hotels
were over here. Did you ever work in the Jackson Hotel? Or
any of the others?
J: No, I never did work there. At times I had friends
that worked there, I'd go and help them.
JB: Do you remember what hotels were like? Did they have
wooden floors and ••. ?
J: Oh, yes. They had wooden floors and everything was
wooden ••• We didn't see much carpet and stuff like that
Just clean hydrants and ...
JB: Did they have the water inside?
J: Inside, yeah.
JB: They did have it piped inside by then.
J: Yes.
JB: Mr. Booth, when I was talking to him, Milton Booth, he
was telling us something about a Freedom Park. Can you tell
us about that? He was saying how a lot of the people would
come
J: On the 19th of June just be people coming here from
everywhere. We used to celebrate down there every 19th
June; sometimes two days. And people used to come here from
different places. They'd be havin' a celebration somewhere
else but if they said they was celebrating in Weimar, they'd
JOHNSON 27
J: all come. They'd have a big parade on that day. We
used to have bands from Houston, a marching band. They'd
parade all around the street. Then they would march on down
to the Park. It's still down there now. I think they're
planning on havin' a celebration down there this year. The
older ones died out. The next group, they've taken over and
they are about died out so the third generation is trying to
build it up again. They used to have a great big time. The
merchants would always help them. They used to have big
ball games; we had a real good ball team.
JB: How would they all get in to town? Where would they
all come from? Just from around the ... ?
J: The trains there wasn't any cars then. People used
to ride the trains.
JB: They'd come in on the train.
J: Come in on the train and them that had cars would come
in in cars; just any way they could get here •.• 19th
morning, the streets would be full of white and colored.
All be there for the celebration. They'd go around there
and they'd have a big dance at the park that night. And
they have stands all down there; different ones was sellin'
whatever .•• food, and some were sellin' this and that,
whatever. They be, some of 'em, would be down there nearly
all night.
Sometimes we'd have two days. Once or twice a year,
three days. 'Cause there was so many people just comin' in,
findin' out the 19th of June gonna be in Weimar. But all of
JOHNSON 28
J: that older group; after the older group passed, the
young ones kinda slackin' up. But this last year they
started again. And this year they're going to try to make
it a little bigger. But you don't have no ball team like
they used to; they used to have a good ball team. That was
where I shine, at the ball game.
JB: Did you play ball?
J: I didn't play but but I was a booster.
JB: You were one of the boosters. Did your children play
in the team?
J: No.
JB: Your boys didn't play?
J: Just my friends. My boys wasn't old enough then.
JB: Oh. This was earlier then.
J: That was in my early years. Before my children were
old enough to go, I still would go to the games. Before my
children got big , I used to .•• I wasn't goin' to play ball
'cause I was a real booster. Dancin' and ball games, that
was the most of things that went on around back in them
days.
JB: Back in those days. About what year was this?
J: Way back in about 1918, 1919, 1920 •.• back in those
days.
JB: The ball games and the dances •• was there any other
kind of entertainment that they had?
J: That was the most things they did. The whites had a
team. They had a park right across on the highway where
JOHNSON 29
J: the golf course is; whites had a park over there. And
our park is right across from there on this other side. All
of that used to belong to old man Hill but somehow he let
the colored people, they had this. They got rid of the
place over there. See, they used to have a white band and
they used to play on the Fourth of July, while they had
their celebration over there. They'd always have plenty of
food and they'd get the colored people to come and clean up
everything after. Whatever food was left, they give it to
whoever was there.
JB: Was helping. That was good.
J: And down at the park, when we had something over there,
why lots of them would come over there and buy food from us.
Then go to the game. We had some real good ball players
here. We had one ball player here, the catcher that caught
the ball. And he caught balls in a rocking chair.
(laughter )
JB: In a rocking chair!
J: And this was spilled over town and boy they had a bunch
of people out there. And he was a good catcher. He had a
big rockin' chai r and he caught the balls in a rockin '
chair.
JB: How could ..• ? Would he throw it back just sitting in
the chair?
J: He threw it, I don't know whether he throwed it back
but he got it back to the pitcher.
JB: That's an oddity.
JOHNSON 30
J: And allover town, "corne and see Weimar play." •.• I
don't know who they were playin', and they'd see him catch
the ball in the rockin' chair. People used to corne there,
some of the people from town, they'd corne on down there.
Mr. Klein, he was a real ball fan. Always carne to all the
games. We had a real good ball team.
Had a good b ig well down there at the park and we'd
have big barbecues. It would be free almost, the barbecue.
Had all kinds of stands and people ••. all kinds of good
cooking and people'd just eat, drink. If they didn't
dance, they had seats around and they just sit and talk.
Later on , when they got cars and things, if you didn't
get down there ea rly, you couldn't hardly get there because
white people and the black would drive right up where they
could watch 'ern dance; always watched 'ern dance. We had
some real good dancers. They'd dance for prizes. That was
the biggest part of the After then, they started to
open up cafes and things. That slowed down the 19th.
'Cause so many people had those juke boxes in the cafes and
they could dance for nothing; no t goin' in the park. Them
days they didn't have a lot of cafes , everybody went t o the
park on the 19th.
JB: Did they have any horse racing or anything?
J: They used to have horse racing, not right here in
town, but between here and Commerce. They used to have
rodeos and things like that.
JB: Did you go to the rodeo?
JOHNSON
J: Uh huh. I used to be a sport fan.
JB: What kind of things were they doing at the rodeo?
Just like now?
31
J: Yeah, the rodeo was just like now. Calf ropin' and
rough ridin' and bull ridin' and all of that stuff.
Commerce was just a real place for that. We never carried
on right here in town.
JB: The 1918 flu epidemic, did that hit here very much?
J: That flu epidemic? That's when my little girl died.
In 1918. The flu epidemic was awfully bad. My husband
first had it and we were down at Elbe pickin ' cotton at the
time. And he had it and then I had taken it so we came
home then. After we came home my little girl had taken it.
And my husband had taken pneumonia and her, too. But the
Lord didn't let me take any more so I had to wait on them
two. And lots of time I come to Dr. Ottis to get somethin'
and he say , "You should be in bed yourself." But the Lord
just kept me up. And I take care of them, my little girl
died and my husband got better. I never did come down with
it.
I had another escape from being gone so I guess he
must have left me here for somethin ' . I had blood poison
since I been here and my teeth and my face were just black
from here to here, but I got over that.
JB: When you were working for these families, how did you
manage to do their laundry? I know we didn't have machines
like we got now .. did you do their laundry or did you .• ?
JOHNSON 32
J: You washed on a washboard, I still got one yet, I got
a glass one now. A washboard; boiled 'em in a kettle, big
iron pot, wash 'em, boiled 'em in that kettle, rench 'em
back and then iron 'em with a furnace, the furnace
charcoal. And put charcoal in the furnace and light it.
And then I put my irons on there.
JB: You didn't have the fancy electric irons like now.
J: No. Just a few of the rich •. they didn't let the help
use 'em. They used just a smoothin' iron.
JB: Did you have the kind that had a detachable handle or
did you have to have a hot pad?
J: I used the kind that the handle already on 'em. I had
some like that but I didn't use them when I did laundering.
I had just the regular smoothing iron they called it. I'd
have about four of 'em and put 'em on that furnace and then
change 'em when one go too cool, change 'em and get another
one.
The doctor used to wear those white suits; white
pants. And I used to do them with a charcoal iron and
never dirtied 'em up. And when I got so I couldn't do 'em,
he qui t wearin' 'em.
JB: How about that!
J: Never scorched.
I bet you never scorched 'em either.
JB: Seems my mother always had something like a bluing.
What was ..• ?
J: Now people don't use that, but I always used bluing.
Always washed the clothes out of this water, put 'em in the
JOHNSON 33
J: rench water, and then in the bluin' water, then starch
'em. Bluin' supposed to bleach 'em. White clothes. And
then I'd starch 'em, make the starch and starch 'em. Let
'em dry, then sprinkle 'em down, roll 'em down over night.
The next day I'd iron. And I did a lots of it in my life.
JB: I bet you have, over the years.
J: Oh! From about 1917 up until 19 and 70, I washed and
ironed. I just quit iron' just about two years ago. I
used to iron the neighbor's shirts and he'd have always
about ••• he brought 'em every two weeks .•• and he'd
always have about 19, 20, or 21.
iron 'em the next.
JB: The white shirts?
I'd wash 'em one day and
J: He had colored shirts more. And he didn't want nobody
else to do his shirts. And when I told him that I had to
quit because my legs would give out so much, I had to quit
washin' and iron', he said he really hated it but he just
thanked me for doin' 'em as long as I did.
JB: As long as you did.
J: I went off once and his sister washed 'em some shirts
for him. He came back and she said Mamie was gone and she
said I washed out two or three, he was runnin' studio on
the corner. And so he looked at 'em and he said, "It don't
look like they been washed (laughter) and they're not
ironed." And she said, "I don't iron my husband's shirts;
I didn't iron yours" •.• He says, "Just put 'em on back
there with the others til Mamie comes back. Let her do 'em.
JOHNSON 34
J: Cause Mamie , Mamie put a little starch in my shirts
and she irons them and she don't leave no ring around my
collar."
JB: Did you still wash 'em by hand , Mamie, or were you
using a machine then?
J: No, I have a washing machine. The funniest thing: the
same day that I give up washin ' and iron ' , I went in there
to wash somethin' in the machine and I pulled that little
concern that makes it operate and it come plumb out and I
said it sure meant for me to stop.
JB: Meant for you to quit then.
J: Hi s sister when she passed, she wanted me , told me , to
keep ... I told her as long as I was able to , I keep him
clean. And so I did as long as I was able.
They had a store there. Now where the Kneble store is
there on the corner, that's where Mr. Booth's mother and
them had a baker shop.
JB: Bakery. Oh?
J: Mr. Booth's mother had a baker's shop in that buildin'
right there on the corner where the Knebel Store .••
JB: When was that?
J: Oh , that was back in 1919, in 1920. 'Cause, my auntie
and myself we did their laundry when they first came to
Weimar ... Mr . Booth was about 80 years old. That's the
reason he knows me so well.
JB: Right. He did mention now that you ... because he was
the one that mentioned your name.
JOHNSON 35
J: Well, they used to have a baker's shop in that
building. Mrs. Booth's father died and then she married a
Mr. Brown, married old man Brown. His father wasn't so
well at the time. He was a real aristocratic old fellow,
he wanted his socks pressed . (laughter)
SB: So you pressed his socks.
J: We pressed his socks .
J: Since Mrs. Booth and they been together I was up at
the house one evenin' and she was talking about how cranky
he was about his socks; something about his socks. I said,
"Well, he can't have it because his daddy we had to press
his." (laughter)
JB: You knew Mr. Booth, then, when he was just a real
small boy?
J: Uh huh. Since he was about 8 years old. I'm just
about two years older than him.
years old then.
'Cause I was about 10
JB: You grew up together then, kinda.
J: And we still stay in touch with one another. Since he
married this lady, she's been so very nice to me because
he's been knowing me all this while.
JB: They mentioned an •.• asphidity* ?
SB: Asphidity. Used to wear around your neck in a little
bag.
J: Asphidity.
SB: Smelled horrible.
J: Yeah. Yeah.
* asafetida - Webster
JOHNSON
JB: What was that used for? What was it? What was in
it?
36
J: It was .• lessee ... what did they wear that for? It
was good ••• they claimed, to keep off something. I don't
know just what ..• I can't think of just what it was for.
JB: I think Mrs. Booth said she had to wear it for •••
when she was in Galveston .•. for the plague.
J: Yeah. I think that was •.• people started wearing it
after the f l u come on, I think. Something was goin' on •••
and they used to wear that asphidity. Smelled like I don't
know what!
SB: Oh, it was horrible.
JB: Do you know what was in it? Mamie , do you know what
they put in it?
J: No. It ws a kind of a something or other that you
could buy.
SB: Kinda like a soft wax?
J: Uh huh. Somepin' like that. And they put it in a
little bag and wore it around their neck.
SB: It was horrible.
J: I don't know exactly just what it was. But they used
to wear that.
JB: Did you ever have to wear one?
J: Naw, I never did.
JB: Thank goodness. I'm trying to think of things that
were happening back in those days. As the streets •.• the
farmers would come in and park their horses and climb up
JOHNSON 37
JB: and water 'em in the water troughs at the end of the
town, about when
going from those
can you remember ••• when they started
or when the streets were paved and
J: Well, these streets out here were paved along about in
the highways and things, •.. the streets in town were
paved a little bit 'fore then. 'Cause there used to be a
man by the name of Lee Ward. He worked at the cement, and
they had those cement streets in town before they did these
streets. But these streets ••• they just taken them up in
the '30s. ' Long about '35, they were working these
streets, all the streets up and down, middle ways, all the
streets in town like t his and the highway, but a whole big
gang that was doin' that. I don't know how many men. And
they all stayed here and roomed and boarded with different
people 'round here. And they put all of them streets in.
One lady I was workin' for , they fixed the streets from
town up, you see, and she said she told her sister,
"You know what? Mamie's steet was fixed before ours was."
But I just happened to be living down .•• down, down, on
this side of them, and so ••• But all out there was this
mud mud, water, and there was a real deep place there.
And all the water from up on the hill there, from the bus
station, goes right on that corner. And then comes right
on around and comes down here. And when it come the big
rain, I can't even get out there. 'Cause the water cuts
••• comes on acorss the street. When it comes a real big
JOHNSON 38
J: rain, but it don't have to be such a big rain. If it
rains a good bit, or real hard, water come plumb up here in
my yard, plumb up to the steps, in my yard.
JB: Still?
J: Plumb up there ••. now. They ain't no mud there to
catch it now. Got that drainer there, and it drains down
in this place here. And when so much of it comes, it just
backs up in the yard. But when I came up here, wasn't
nuthin' up here but a big pin oak ••• not pin oak, one of
those trees that has the great big leaves
SB: Oh, cottonwood.
J: Yeah. cottonwood tree here in the yard there, and
right along about this side of the house. Right at the
house. And some peach trees. Used to have lotta peach
trees here. Had real lotta peaches. But the older ones
died out but two. Used to a bunch of 'em would come up ,
and I'd replant them, but I don't know here lately. And
since I've been in, looks like I can't get nobody to keep
my yard like I want it. Work what was done out there, I
did that myself.
JB: It's hard to get people to do that. Did you do it
when you were younger or did you do a lotta canning and
J: Canning?
JB: Uh huh.
J: Oh, yeah. I got stuff in there, I reckon, been canned
about 6, 7 years, almost. Every now and then I have to go
JOHNSON 39
J: and clean out in there to see what do I have in there.
I used to make jellies, put up figs, used t o pick
dewberries. Used to be a big dewberry country 'round here.
People used to get there on the highway and pick
dewberries, and some of ' em would sell $30.00 worth of
dewberries, up and down a highway, on the railroad.
JB: People would stop and buy them?
J: Uh huh. People would be passing by , and they'd pick
these buckets f ull and come on down on, close to the walk,
while the rest of 'em was still picking. And people'd come
by in cars and buy ' em. And one lady sold $35.00 worth of
them dewberries. A dollar a gallon.
JB: Well, the railroad .•. were you here when the railroad
first came through, or shortly after it came through? Did
they have many trains?
J: It used to be two passengers a day g o in' east and two
passengers goin ' west. When I was married, my husband's
people we lived down there, a little place called Borden,
right down from here. Well , I married on the 27th of
December •.. 'course that was during the holidays ... I
married at night, and the nex day, that's where we spent
our honeymoon, in Borden.
JB: In Borden?
J: You went there for fifteen cents a piece .. , thirty
cents a round trip.
JB: On the train?
J: On the train.
JOHNSON
JB: What was the train like?
J: Oh, just a regular passenger train.
JB: Just a regular passenger train.
40
J: Uh huh. Regular passenger train. With the old motor
and all them big old engines; like that. Had a little
place right on the side of the track, where you could stand
there and wait for it. And get where they'd put you off.
Right down there at Borden. And so that's where we went.
People laugh, we come through there lots of time, I say,
"This where I spent my honeymoon."
JB: Tell us about your courtship. How did you ••• you
know, nowadays, they get in the car and they go somewhere
and all this. How did you meet your husband, and how did
he go about courting you? Was it on horseback or what? Or
just walking? At the dances? How did you meet him?
J: Well, I tell you. Just the funny thing. His mother
and my mother were real good friends. Just like two
sisters . But he was older than I. But somehow or other,
out of the other little boy friends that I had, he stuck to
me the most. And so we started going together, and we got
married. And I didn't think about it at the time, but
afterwards I thought about how things can happen like that.
His mother and my mother, after we had children , they both
had the same grandchildren , see. And they were just like
two sisters. And he had two brothers, and so that's the
way we met. His folks was all born down there at Borden.
JB: Borden , uh huh.
JOHNSON 41
J: Used to be a big settlement down there. People that
lived down there.
JB: What was .•• I was just going to say ... what was it
like? I mean, was it ••. what kept them there? What kind
of business?
J: Well, then, see, the railroad was at Glidden, right
down east of Borden, that was the roundhouse. And all of
those people down in there worked on the railroad track.
Mexican , and mostly colored, worked on the tracks. 'Cause
they kept these track all in preparation all the time,
because was freight and two passenger. Lots of time , we'd
get on a passenger train here and ride to Schulenburg and
catch the next one coming back, and come back on it.
'Cause it didn 't cost nuthin' on it, you see.
JB: I was just going to say, what did it cost you to go to
Schulenburg?
J: ' Bout 25 or 30 cents.
JB: About 30t.
J: Uh huh.
JB: And you could do your shopping there.
J: We could go up there. If we didn't do nuthin' but
just go up there and get us something cold to drink up
there. Right on the highway. We'd go up there and buy
some ice cream, buy a glace, and pay but a nickel for it.
And then we catch the next train and go back.
If some of our friends from San Antonio would come
down here for the 19th June and they stay over a day or
JOHNSON 42
J: two, we'd go far as Schulenburg with 'em, when they go
back home, and we 'd catch the next train and come on back
home. And on Sundays, that's all we had to entertain us.
We'd go over at the station and watch the trains go by and
wave and walk around, and that's the way we went along in
them days. Then the cars be coming. The first cars was
here, was the Ford.
JB: Was the Ford?
J : The same man's brother, Pardee, had a place right up
there, right up this alley there on that side where the
Brasher people have now. Well, that's where he used to
sell Fords.
JB: And then .•. were the streets paved when he first
started selling these Fords there? That would have been
early , wouldn't it?
J: No .
JB: Did you ever see any of the cars get stuck out there?
J: Do what?
JB: Did you ever see any of the cars get stuck in the
mud?
J: Aw yeah. They'd get stuck in the mud, all right, but
I never •.• it never did stick up out here in the front
here. Different place, it would stick up and people had to
pull 'em out. Bu t Ford .• , they didn't stick much like
these cars now, because they was up off the ground more.
They could go in places where these cars can't go now,
'cause they too low on the ground. But the Ford, if you
JOHNSON
J: was a good driver, you could jump a ditch with a
Ford.
JB: I hope you didn't try that.
43
J: Huh uh. But I had a friend who went out there where
they call Clear Creek ... out from town there, there's a
little settlement, and the boy ..• it had rained and the
water was •.• and she did something to that car, and she
jumped that ditch and she run in that water.
JB: You weren't with her, though.
J: I was with her, but I didn't do nuthin' but hold my
breath.
JB: Hold your breath and hold on.
J: And hold on, that's it.
JB: Mr. Booth was telling me about a cure for an earache.
J: 'Bout which?
JB: A cure of an earache that some woman had done. He
said he had such an earache, ••• he had been sickly when he
was a boy •.. and they poured something into his ear. You
wouldn't know anything about any remedy
J: Naw'm. But I did have the earache and toothache.
Most of my trouble was toothache. But I still have about
eleven of my teeth yet.
JB: That's great. That's great.
J: It's not many people my age got any their teeth. But
I used to suffer with mine. Awful bad til I started taking
little better care of 'em, like I brush 'em now, and like
that.
JOHNSON 44
JB: Can you tell ... you said your church was the first
church •..
J: First church built in
JB: weimar.
J: 113 years ago.
JB: Was it the colored church then? Or ••.
J: Yes, it was. The colored people orgainized it and
built it, the fi rs t church built in Weimar. After Weimar
was about a year old , a little better. Four or five of our
older men, just out of slavery, built it. 'Course one of
'em •.. wasn't b u t one of ' em that could read and write.
And he was the secretary of the whole concern. And old man
Jackson gave us the land. Just almost he give it. 7St a
acre. $75 a acre, somepin' or other like that.
JB: Probably 7St, back at that time. That's .•. is that
still the same church, or has it •••
J: Naw , that's the third church.
JB: That's the third one.
J: The first was up on the next street, on the corner.
And then the second church, •.• but it burned.
JB: It burned.
J: The second church was where this church is now. But
that 1900 storm blowed it apart. And so then they ... they
wanted to remodel it ••. the pastor we had here at that
time ... he said naw, we'd build a new one. So we went in
this church here in 1921.
JB: You've been there since then.
JOHNSON 45
J: And it's been there ever since.
JB: You spoke now of the 1900 storm. Was that that big
storm that hit Galveston?
J: The big storm in Galveston.
JB: It came thi s far?
J: And right after then. I don't know if that's the same
one, but right after then, they had one here, and they said
..• oh, they said that came from that one down there.
'Cause we were living north of town then ••. out on that
lower end of town ••. 'cross the track, and it blowed our
house off the block. And it caught up on the block, and
when it did, I was sittin' in the kitchen, half asleep, and
it blowed off the block .•. right (interruption in tape) on
out with me. I mean, we got to the front door. They had
blowed the China tree all across the front, so we climbed
over there somehow or other , and we left and went to
another house 'cross there. And it was blowed apart, and
those people had left ••. all but one man .•• he was there
in the back, and it was raining on him and everything. He
didn't know nothing 'bout the storm. The rest of us left
then. And then we went on around the corner and went to
one of our teachers. One of our first teacher's house.
And that's where we stayed til the storm was over. Finally
her mother and a little boy, they found us. They come on
around in there where we was.
JB: Did it do a lot of other damage here in town?
J: Oh, yeah. It blowed the houses down. One lady was
JOHNSON 46
J: living right down on this next street ..• about two
streets over down where we call Freedmen Town ..• she was
an old lady, and her house blew off the blocks, and she ran
out, and jes 'bout time she ran out, the porch caught her
and kilt her.
JB: You just mention Freedmen Town.
J: Freedmen Town, that's where they called ••• that's
where most of the colored people lived.
JB: When did it get that name?
J: Ever since I can remember, they called it that.
JB: They called it that. You don't remember why or
J: No. Just why ... why they named it that. But that's
where most all the colored people lived. That's where I
was living in 1904, 1905, down in Freedmen Town. Just one
block from where my church is, down on that side of the
street.
JB: Do you remember when they started any of the other
churches around here?
J: Well, I did know when the next church was built here
it was Mount Airy. But that was a few years after our
church was built. And these others have been all •.. two
of 'em or one of 'em ..• was moved ••• was bought and
put there on Macedonia .•• used to be the white church, and
they had a little church built there, after they pulled out
of Mt. Airy, they built a little church there, and they
moved that one down at Borden. And so somebody bought it,
and they bought the white Methodist Church, and moved it
JOHNSON 47
J: there. And then this other St. Paul Church used to be
out here between here and Holman if you goin' across, out
that way. After all the older people died out out there,
well, they moved it to town, but Mt. Airy and St. James was
built here. And St. James was the first one built here.
And it's still two people belongs to it now that's the
fourth generation of the ones that built it.
JB: That built the church.
J: Uh huh.
JB: How 'bout that. After the storm, I guess there was
quite a bit of rebuilding. Or did they just go to new
places or •.•
J: Well , after the storm, several had damaged homes.
Some fixed 'em up. And we had church at that time at the
Odd Fellows Hall ... that's where we used to hold service
until got o ur church. We went in there in August in 19 and
22 ..• 21. And our pastor held a conference there that
year.
JB: Well, it's been very, very wonderful talking to you,
Mamie. I've enjoyed it all.
J: I think I can remember things that happened back there
better than what I can remember yesterday hardly.
JB: That's a fun thing. The things back there were so
nice and so interesting.
J: And it wasn't so many things on your mind, back there,
'cause it was just two or three things to do. You would
work for a living , for pleasure you danced, played ball,
JOHNSON
J: somepin' like that, and that was all.
JB: And picnic.
48
J: And have picnics and things like that because we used
to have lots of picnics and things around. What they
called suppers. Them was out in the country, just around
like that.
JB: The •.. where the people would get together more, I
think, and talk, wouldn't they?
J: Oh, yes. So many people would there. They didn 't
dance or nuthin', but they just go there and laugh and talk
together. The people from out of t own, people who used to
live here, they'd always come home for the 19th of June.
They'd have a big celebration, and they'd cook lotta food
the night or two before; then they come to town in a wagon,
sometime with a whole trunk or box full of food. And that
food would last all day. Now you cook anything, and it
won't last til dinner time, if it's hot weather. But in
June, they'd cook cabbage with black eyed peas .,. jes any
kind of food they wanted to ••• and they'd put it in that
big trunk and park their wagon under the shade trees, and
there they had bunch of children that would eat, and then
some of them would put their dinners together and let
everybody just eat. It was more togetherness at that time.
But now everybody want to stay in the same little corner.
And ain't doing nothing in either one, are they? And .••
but it just wasn't like that then. We used to take these
youngsters after you 'd get a new dress and, 0 Lord , a big
JOHNSON 49
J: sash and a big bow ribbon, and you was just a belle
and •.• Had the time of my life.
JB: You were the queen of the ball then ••. or the belle
of the ball.
J: Oh , afer I got in my teens, why, I had a new name.
They called me Miz Wagner, 'cause I was Miz Wagner, really
a good dancer. Everybody wanted to know ... all of ' em
wanted to dance with me. Come from Houston and all and
everybody, they always ••. always could get a dance up.
Get a dance sometime and somebody pay my way in. While they
was paying my way , somebody else come to the door and was
waiting for me to come on in, and I'd be dancing. Never
left the dancing til they played "Home Sweet Home."
JB: That was the ending, like now it's Auld Lang Syne.
Then it was "Home Sweet Home." What kind of dances did
they do , Mamie, like the waltz?
J: The one step, two step, waltz, and I don't know ...
our people never did learn much waltzing •.• just a few
would waltz. Now the older people that was older than us ,
they could waltz, but we young people, we didn't take much
to the waltz. Two or three people could waltz. That was
the only time we could get a clean floor, was when they
start waltz ing. But everybody tried the one step, two
step. And tango and all that kinda stuff.
JB: Oh, you did al l those fancy dances, then?
J: Oh , yeah, tango and all that kinda stuff. They used
to dance anything.
JB: Did they ever have any of the contests, and all?
JOHNSON 50
J: Oh, yes. The best dancer, my auntie's daughter, she
come here from Houston, and a young man from Schulenburg,
every 19th of June, they always won a prize, 'cause they
was both good dancers.
JB: And always won.
J: They'd always get the prize for dancing.
JB: Did you ever win a prize , since you liked to dance so
well.
J: No. I didn't never dance for no prize. I just danced
for the love of dancing.
JB: That was always me.
J: That's all. And I tell 'em now, when they says there's
gonna be a dance, I never ask the price or what they pay
'cause you didn't pay much nohow. But I never asked the
price. All I want to know was where it was gonna be.
JB: Where and when, huh?
J: Where and when. And so that's what I tell 'em now
about my church. Since I quit dancing. My church now. I
never ask them no questions when they ask for the money for
the church. I know it's for the church, I don't ask what
is it or what is it for or that's too much. Because what­ever
it was to go to a dance, a ball game, I paid that.
And so whatever my church needs, that's where I ... as poor
as I am now, 'cause most of the places in my record there
at church, I paid my own way. The church didn't send me.
I paid my own way. And I've always jes been able to do it ,
because I
END OF TAPE I, SIDE 2, 45 MINUTES.