THE INSTITUTE OF TEXAN CULTURES
ORAL HISTORY PROGRAM
INTERVIE~I WITH:
DATE:
PLACE:
INTERVIEWERS:
Virgie and Dick Johnson
February 1988
Somerset, Texas
Sarah and Hardy Cannon
SC: They've lived in Somerset most of their lives. she
taught at the Somerset Elementary School.
HC: Old Rock Baptist Church after the Baptists built the
Old Rock or was it the Rock family? Was there a Rock family
that lived here?
DJ: I don't know.
HC: The reason I asked is because in 1934, 1935, my uncle
worked for Carothers, drivin' trucks. They also lived on
route farm down there at the Medina River crossing.
And that's the same Rocks that built the old rock dam on the
Nueces River and set up an onion plantation. The church was
called the Old Rock Baptist Church, whether it was from the
family or from the •..
SC: Did your family go to Old Rock Baptist Church? A long
time ago? He sign
VJ: Uh huh.
HC: I wonder who would have that information? Do you know
anyone who would have the information about that church?
Because that's the foundation to start and bring it up
to date. Of course, as far as I can tell, it's probably the
JOHNSON 2
HC: oldest community in Bexar County, next to San Antonio.
DJ: Really , I think Paul Smoot could help you some on
that.
HD: Are they still meeting in the Baptist church there?
VJ: I think the Poteet pastor serves that church.
SC: When you were a little boy, where did your family live
in connection with old Somerset? Did you live in old
Somerset or the new Somerset?
DJ: The same area •..
SC: And your family lived there, too? How close •.• in the
country?
VJ: No, we lived in the town.
SC: And what did your father do?
VJ: He was a teamster. He hauled the pipe for the oil
field from San Antonio with his team.
SC: What was it, horses or ?
VJ: (shrugged) - I don't know.
SC: How many to each .•• was it a wagon or .••
VJ: He had a wagon and he went in to San Antonio .. , I
don't know what the name of the place was anyway, he
hauled pipe out here. Sometimes it would take him two
days.
SC: What did they do? Did they camp by a river at night if
they didn't make it back?
VJ: They had some place down there to take care of their
horses and he stayed with his brother in San Antonio.
SC: What did your father do?
JOHNSON 3
DJ: Well, as far back as I can remember, we lived on a farm
all my life. My dad didn't do a lot of farming. Most of
it; he rented it most of the time.
VJ: It was a big farm.
DJ: Not a ~ farm but you know what I mean. But for
those days it was pretty big. But he worked in the cotton
gin in Somerset. The first I can remember was our ... well,
not too many years ago they quit the cotton gin in Somerset.
I don't remember the year.
SC: Why did they quit, do you know?
DJ: The oil field, I would say was what stopped them. He
went to the oil field after he got out of the cotton gin
he had somebody taking care of the farm. Along with his
farming.
SC: Did they have peanuts then like they do now?
DJ: Not like they do now.
HC: What did they fire the boiler with for the cotton gin?
Did they use coal or oil?
DJ: It must have been coal.
HC: Now where did that coal ... there's a coal open pit
strip mine. Where was it in reference to where you lived?
DJ: It's right west ••. a little bit northwest of Somerset,
about two miles, maybe.
HC: I know about where that is. I wonder if there are any
pictures of that left.
DJ: I d on't know.
HC: Mr. James said that there were •.• he remembers that
JOHNSON 4
HC: there were about 500 people worked in that coal mine.
Was it really ever that big? I didn't know it was that
big.
OJ: I wouldn't have thought it would have been that many.
But they had quite a few.
SC: Oid the people live in Somerset who worked in the coal
mine or was it a thing like a railroad, where they had the
little houses with it?
OJ: To the best of my memory they lived in that area.
SC: And they just went horne at night.
VJ: What year did Bellco take over the coal mine?
Who took it over?
OJ: John Bellco. Back in the olden days.
VJ: John Bellco.
I was about to finish Junior High or in High School.
SC: And you knew the people that took ••• ?
VJ: They lived next door to us and we were real good
friends.
SC: Oid they buy it or how did they take it over?
VJ: I don't know how that happened. Whether they bought it
or .•. but anyway they mined it because everybody went out
and went down in the coal mine except me. And I was afraid.
(laughter)
OJ: There was an older mine before that on Bill Kenney's
place. They used donkeys or mules or something with little
buggies to bring the coal out.
HC: Did they dig a mine shaft? Or was it an open pit?
JOHNSON 5
DJ: No, it was a shaft; they had a shaft.
HC: There are some at Poteet. The coal vein was about 60
feet down and they put a shaft down and ..• And down at
Jourdanton the coal is only four or five feet, on the other
side of Jourdanton and Charlotte, so they use a surface mine
there.
SC: Now this was in the ground; actually in the ground.
You had to go under the ground to get it?
DJ: The old hole was there until just a few years ago.
It's there where Bill James lives now.
HC: Do you know how they discovered there was coal there?
Were they digging an oil well and go through the coal?
DJ: I sure don't know that.
VJ: Billy Kenney might be able to tell you that.
HC: Another question is did oil do away with coal or why
did they close the coal mine?
VJ: It just wasn't profitable.
DJ: Just wasn't profitable. Well, that's just like the
railroad. The railroad put the wagons out of business and
then later the trucks and highway put the railroads out of
business. I guess it was the oil was probably cheaper and
the refinery was right there. The coal was really of low
grade. Down at Poteet Mummy ? was digging coal and they
were shipping between one and two train cars a day for
several years, Mr. Mummy did.
SC: Did the little girl that lived next door to you, is she
the one that you went on the train trip with?
JOHNSON 6
VJ: It was the other one. Bobby Lee.
SC: Tell about that. I think that's an interesting story.
VJ: We had never ridden the train; neither one of us. We
decided to go see Georgeanne Shelton over at Kirk. So we
went to the depot and for 25~, we got a ticket to Kirk. We
rode the train over to Kirk and there was no depot or
anything over there. They just stopped on the side of the
road and we got off.
SC: Did the conductor help you off?
VJ: I don't think so. Papa came rushing down to tell us
good bye. They made a big deal over us riding the train.
(Kirk community was about 2 miles from Somerset.)
SC: How old were you, do you remember?
VJ: I guess I was about 10 or 12 years old.
(several voices talking)
HC: We take all of that for granted now.
DJ: ••. the railroad had a spur up to this main coal mine.
HC: Somerset? I knew there was a spur in Poteet but I
didn't know there was one in Somerset.
DJ: Yes, there was a spur to the mines.
HC: Do you know how they loaded the coal? Was it loaded by
hand? Wheel barrows up a ramp and into the
DJ: I don't really know. Host of it would have been by
hand because they didn't have any .•.
SC: Well, now was that the same railroad that you loaded
watermelons on? Same?
JOHNSON 7
OJ: Same.
SC: Same railroad. That was near Poteet that you loaded
the watermelons.
OJ: Yes. We rode right in to Poteet.
HC: About how much a day were you making them? How much
were you paid to load ?
OJ: I don't remember. Maybe 50f. It wasn't much, that's
for sure.
SC: 50f a day.
HC: The first job I had, I was paid 25f a day.
SC: When this railroad that was from Poteet .•• where did
it start? Did it s tart at Charlotte or where did it start?
OJ: It ran to Christine. The way it came out in San
Antonio but it ended in Christine. But I don't remember.
SC : Was there a water tower or anything in Somerset for the
railroad? Where it stopped? The depot ; was there a depot?
OJ: Yes. I think there was a water tower. The depot was
still over there on Senior and Somerset Road. I'm not
positive about that but I believe they took on water.
HC : About what year did they pull the rai lroad out? 00 you
remember?
OJ: I don't remember what year it was.
VJ: I remember when it happened.
SC : When you were in school, did they all go to that one
school building? The old junior high?
OJ: When I started to school, the school buildings were
right out in front of where we live now. Three are four old
buildings out there.
JOHNSON 8
VJ: Not when you started.
OJ: No, I started at the old school on Somerset Road. They
call that the old ...
SC: The old what? w-i-l-d-m-a-n? Was that named for a
person?
OJ: Wildman I think, owned the property there where •••
One year, I know that's where I started. I might have gone
there two years before we moved back in to Somerset. When I
started in Somerset, they had those four old buildings right
out in from of where we live now.
SC: Were there several grades in one room? Is that the way
it was or did .•. Oid you have a whole room full of first
graders?
OJ: The old building where I started, we did.
grades were there, one teacher, whole bunches.
VJ: Mr . OCA Black.
. .• all the
OJ: OCA Black was the teacher •. Melba and Bill was going
to school there. And they went for a number of
SC: Now were you born in Somerset? What year?
OJ: 1912.
SC: 1912. And were you born in Somerset?
VJ: I was born in Lytle. 1915.
SC: In 1915. And you started to school in Somerset?
VJ: Yes. We moved to Somerset when I was about four, or
five years old.
HC : The Atascosa River starts in Lytle, doesn't it?
OJ: Uh huh.
JOHNSON
HC: But that has since just about dried up.
DJ: I remember it being a pretty good little flowing
stream, when we used to go down there.
9
SC: Well now, there was a spring; you think there were some
springs at the first settlement of Somerset? You think
there was some kind of springs there?
VJ: Well, Ellis Caulfield was talking about that and he
said they went down there and hauled water in barrels from
that spring. He said it's all dried up now.
SC: It was close to Old Rock Church?
VJ: Somewhere down that way. Down at old Somerset because
he said they used to haul water from there.
SC: Why did they call it Bexar (Bex air) do you suppose?
Old Be~ar Cemetery is still called that •.• Because it had
the x in it?
VJ: I guess so.
SC: The old Somerset was in Atascosa County and then the
new Somerset is in Bexar. Did they change the county line
or did they just move ••. were they just that close?
DJ: That 1917 highway map that's in that book that Ernie
has, it showed old Somerset in Atascosa County and it shows
Somerset where it is now. That's what got me so intrigued
and also it tells about the move. It doesn't tell what
year. But that book says it moved because of the railroad.
But this book indicates there was a community there when the
railroad came through.
JOHNSON 10
SC: Can you think of any of the stories that your
grandfather told, when you were a little boy? He came there
when he was young, according to this newspaper clipping.
DJ: No. (noise on tape)
SC: And you don't remember any stories from him?
DJ: No, I sure don't.
SC: Did your family live near him?
DJ: When I was young, pretty close.
SC: That was your mother's father.
DJ: Uh huh.
SC: When you were a little boy, can you remember playing in
his yard or your yard? Can you remember what did you all
play? Can you think of - did you all play with marbles?
DJ: Well, some. We played with flutes, wheels (noise on
tape)
SC:
DJ:
Did you play kick the can?
Kick the can. We kicked the can; something like that.
VJ: When your parents weren't looking we used to put a
barrel down and walk on it.
DJ: (laughter)
SC: That was great fun. Did you go swimming in the Medina
River?
VJ: That was a bath tub.
SC: In the Medina River.
VJ: Uh huh.
DJ: I was baptized in the Medina River.
SC: Did you all go to the same church when you were young?
JOHNSON
VJ: I went to the Methodist and he went to the Baptist.
DJ: Baptist. I was raised in the Baptist.
SC: You went to the Methodist?
VJ: Uh huh.
SC: But they baptized you in the river. They immersed
you?
11
VJ: Uh huh. The Methodist, you had a choice. If you
wanted to be sprinkled or immersed. And I was immersed.
SC: You didn't go to this Methodist Church, the one that's
close to our house? (Oak Island)
VJ: No. They moved the Methodist Church from what they
used to call Old Bexar (Bex air).
SC: Yes. Old Bexar. I know where that is. That's where
the Methodist Church was.
VJ: Yes. And there was a Catholic Church there, too. And
the Baptist Church, too.
SC: All of them at Old Bexar. And now there's nothing
there but the cemetery.
VJ: That's all.
SC: Why did they move? Do you know?
VJ: Well, I guess like everything else, the little town was
here and they just moved the churches down to the town.
SC: But the Catholic Church stayed there for a long time.
VJ: Stayed there for a good while.
SC: Was there any animosity amoung the churches when you
all were little? Or were most of them pretty friendly?
Like when you all had a big meeting, or something, did
everybody come to yours?
JOHNSON 12
VJ: I think they did pretty much. Much more than they do
today.
SC: I just wondered . Well now, the store, did your
grandfather own the ... was there a Pyron's Grocery then?
(he nodded no) That was later?
OJ: Later.
SC: And that was your uncle that start ed that? Or your
father?
VJ: Where was that writing •.• that picture that they had.
Blake and you ••• you and your brother were in the store.
Blake was out there in front and .,. And we had a picture
of that, a newspaper picture in a .•
OJ: store. Uncle will Kenney, that's Bill and Nellie
Mae's daddy, will Kenny , was one of the first, well, he
moved, I guess he moved , I'm not positive about this, but he
pulled up in Somerset and later his bother, Tom, come in
from their store from Bexar (Bex air) over here. But I
believe Will Kenny was the first one with a grocery store.
Besides
VJ:
SC: All right, now that's the store that's across, catty
corner from Pyron's •.. from the old ..•
OJ: wood shop
VJ: The first store was right there by Nellie Mae's house
on that little triangle corner out there, south of her
house.
SC: That was her father 's store?
JOHNSON 13
SC : And then the Pyron store came later. And that was your
uncle or your father's ... ?
OJ: See where the Super S is now, Kennneys built that
building because Bill Kenney worked in that store for
years.
VJ: It was a Red and White, when they had it.
OJ: Uncle Blake worked in the meat department for years.
And finally Pyron's bought that store, didn't he?
VJ: Milton and Blake had already done away with their
store, when he started working for Uncle Will. And he
worked for Uncle Will for many, many years. And then when
they decided to sellout, they sold to Blake and George
Pyron. And George run the store then until he sold to Super
S.
OJ: Bl ake and Casey had a store of their own out where that
old brick building is.
SC: Now , there was a hotel in Somerset?
OJ: Yes, mam. There was an O.K. Hotel.
very well.
SC: And where was it?
OJ: This was where ...
VJ: It was where •..
OJ: Where the Baptist Church is now.
I remember that
Well, it set right off of that alley, maybe just a
little back, just across that street. By the feed store
where the Baptist Church is.
SC: Was it a two story building?
JOHNSON
VJ: No, it was a one story building.
sc: But it was a hotel.
VJ: It was a long hall with rooms on either side.
OJ: Smith had that hotel.
SC: Now, was that S-m-i-t-h or Sch-midt?
OJ: Smith.
SC: Not related to the other family.
14
And the James •• , did he go t o school about the time
you all did? Was he living? Mr. James living?
OJ: I graduated from high school with him.
VJ: He was in the same room with him when he graduated. He
quit school in
OJ: I quit in 19 28 . Oil field was going pretty good then
because I was going to get rich in a few years. That was my
idea. I didn't like school anyway so I dropped out. I was
working; I worked all the time. But then in '31, I believe,
I went back.
SC: Why did you decide to go back?
OJ: I don't know. A little bit of encouraging from the
coach and the people who were there in Somerset.
VJ: He was a pretty good athlete.
DJ: '" His name was Horne and I got in with him and he
talked me into going back and finishing, which I did.
SC: And you graduated from Somerset the same year that he
did?
SC: The year before?
SC: Hell now, were you all dating then?
JOHNSON
VJ: No.
SC: Did they have Junior-Senior proms and things like
that?
VJ: No. We didn't have proms. Not until the last few
years.
SC: They didn't have?
VJ: We had a banquet.
SC: And did you wear a long dress for that?
VJ: Yeah.
15
SC: Formal dress. Well now, was that the football banquet?
Was that the same thing or was that the Senior banquet?
VJ: No, we didn't have a football banquet.
SC: Well now, was the Bull dog the emblem then? And the
colors were blue and white?
VJ: I don't remember .•• When I graduated, now I don't
know if that was class colors or our school colors. But we
were green and white.
SC: Did you have a jacket? Did they give the football boys
a jacket?
DJ: They didn't give us nothing! Except for a few hard
knocks.
VJ: Now they take a bus and take the kids to '" when
they're going to compete, they had to get their own ride.
Lots of time they rode in the back of a pick-up and it was
raining and cold.
(Several talking at once)
HC: This is kind of changing the subject . When did the
pickle factory start there?
JOHNSON 16
DJ: It was there; I remember. We had a lot of fruit there
for a few years. They built that shed where the pickle
factory was there, enlarged it and all that, but what year
?
VJ: Well, Manatees had the fruit packing on this side of
the railroad tracks. And the pickle factory was on the
other side •.• because I packed plums.
SC: You packed plums there? Where were the trees?
VJ: We had orchards here; just lots of orchards here.
HC: I wonder why they don't have them anymore? Did the
freeze wipe them out or something?
DJ: The fruits, the fig trees, you take peaches and all
that, they just live a few years.
SC: They didn't replant them?
HC: Like Alamo Orchards, they had about 5,000 trees and
they were going good and they apparently dwindled out and
now they have nothing.
SC: When you packed •• that was in the summer?
VJ: They had a conveyor belt that somebody up there would
put them on and they would rollout in these different sizes
of plums, they would rollout and the smallest would be
culled at first and then we had to wrap 'em in paper and
pack 'em in these cartons until we got four of those little
cartons in a crate.
DJ: I went to school with the two boys, the Koehler boys,
that helped their daddy in the pickle factor. I know there
was, the last few years they was in school, so it's going to
JOHNSON 17
DJ : be in that area. '30, '31, in there somewhere, I
believe. I'm not positive.
sc: Well now, did they use the railroad to take care of the
produce and the pickles, too?
DJ: Uh huh. They sure did. Right out there on a little
railroad track.
SC: Why do you suppose the railroad left?
DJ: Just wasn't makin' it anymore.
VJ: Well , there was a l ot of farmers here that took their
produce to market in San Antonio. They had their own trucks
and they trucked it in.
SC: When did peanu t s .•• I would say peanuts are the major
crop ••• when did they start planting peanuts in place of
the fruit trees and things like that?
DJ: It was going pretty good when Bill James lost his arm
and they were growin' pretty good then but I don't know what
year that was.
VJ: It was the summer that he was a senior or maybe he
gaduated that summer, that year, and that summer he lost
that arm.
DJ: I was just trying to think what year ••.
VJ: It was in '32 or '33 when he lost that arm.
DJ: It was going pretty good then and when they quit , I
don't know. In other words, peanuts are still growing
pretty good.
VJ: Well, peanuts I would say are a major crop now, really.
I mean, that's the main thing.
JOHNSON 18
OJ: They was growin' pre tty good then. But I was 16.
SC: When did the James that has the dairy, when did he have
the dairy? Did his family have the dairy or did he just put
that in on his own?
VJ: He and his brother, Frank.
DJ: To start with, I believe, they didn't have the dairy.
V: No, his dad farmed; he was a farmer.
HC: There was a draw right down there by their farm. Was
that a running creek at one time or was that just a low spot
or do you know?
DJ: Just a low spot. That creek that crosses right there
at the dairy, was pretty close to the second coal mine I was
tellin' you about that was o lder. Right up the creek about
maybe half a mile.
SC: There were two coal mines? One of them was older?
DJ: Quite a few years older than that other one I was
talking about; that first one.
SC: Well now, the first one; who owned it to start with?
OJ: I don't know, but it's on Bill Kenney's place; he owns
the property.
SC: He owns the property.
HC: Sometime I want to come over there and get you to go
with me and tell me some of those places. Get pictures of
'em.
DJ: Sure ••.
HC: The thing that fascinates me ••• now we've got coal
right here on this place. You can dig a post hole and when
JOHNSON 19
HC: you put water in to it and you dip the water out, there
are flakes of coal coming out.
SC: Well now, do you know is that coal connected with the
coal that's down the way on the other side?
?: ••. San Miguel, yes.
SC: It's the same vein.
HC: There's a vein of coal that comes from Texarkana all
the way down through and ends up in Live Oak County, just
before it gets to La Salle County, which is the ••• Cotulla.
That's the same vein. Peeler, this book here, Peeler rented
some land from Simmons and that's Peeler's place and that's
where they leased that far. The coal mine, the coal down
there is three or four feet under the ground.
SC: Shallow.
HC: Of course, it's hardly profitable to haul the coal now
because they've got to go in and strip the dirt off; they've
got to mine the coal; put the dirt back. They've got to
replant the trees. They return that to where it tooks like
nothing was taken out.
DJ: That's right.
DJ: That you've got quite a bit of that country down there
on Highway 87, on out where Campbellton is, down in there.
HC: We've done a lot of work down there. Still ... ?
DJ:
SC: Well now, did the gardens, did most of the people in
Somerset have a garden behind their house? Not the ones
that lived in the country, but the ones that actually lived
in town?
JOHNSON
DJ: Not to a great •.• I think a lot of them did. Most
people in Somerset, since that oil boom has gone out,
they've scattered out. Of course, most have gone to San
Antonio and gone to work somewhere else. They do have a
little, some of 'em have a little garden.
20
SC: Most of the people when you were growing up, most of
the people worked right there in Somerset itself. Either in
the pickle factory or there was a lot of industry at that
time?
DJ: the pickle factory and two coal mines.
SC: That took care Well now, did many people commute
from San Antonio to Somerset to work or did they just live
there?
DJ: Well, I think both. I think they commuted, you know
what I mean, and some of them lived there. There were lots
of people; there was a bank.
SC: Now there was a bank in Somerset?
HC: The bank was located right across from where Pyron's
used to be •.. that building, Pyron's Store the building
is still there. They have a thrift shop in it now.
SC: Were there ever clothes sold there? Did they have a
dry goods or •.. The Kenney Store, did they have •.. ?
V: The Kenney Store had dry goods. Uncle Will used to say
people were making quilts and they would make all
different designs. So they would come in and they would buy
a yard of this kind of material and a yard of this and a
yard of this. And he used to do this (make a face) and he
JOHNSON 21
VJ: ? his mouth. He would say, "1 can't understand these
women. They come in and they buy a piece of material and
they take it home and cut it up and sew it back together."
(laughter) He thought that was very funny.
sc: 1 bet he did, too. Hell now, did your mother piece
quilts; make quilts?
VJ: Uh huh. But they had, Kenney's had shoes and ...
(noise and voices)
sc: Hhen you wanted to buy a dress-up dress, did you have
to go in to San Antonio to do it?
VJ: Yeah.
SC: And you all did your shopping in San Antonio? Did you
go into Harlandale or did you go clear in, like to Joske's7
Downtown or 7
VJ: We had to go downtown because there was nothing out on
the south side, it was all brush and pasture.
DJ: 1 used to go in once in a while. Of course, we went in
a wagon and team. He had quite a few plum trees on the
place. He had at least 20. And during that season, we'd
get loaded in the eve ning, just before night, and we'd take
off. You could just tie those lines back and the horses
would go. Hasn't no city road where Kelly Field is now
road, we used to go through there.
There was a Stumberg Store ... I believe it was either
South Flores or Nogalitos. They had wagon yards there where
we would, you know.
SC: Yes.
JOHNSON 22
DJ: The team would know where to go. Of course, maybe we'd
wake up before we got there. But we'd undo them and tie 'em
up and they'd feed ' em and water 'em. And we'd spend a
while there. But, when we started back, we'd go straight t o
the market usually with the plums.
SC: Well now, was the market where it is now? The farmer's
market?
DJ: It was down close to the Santa Rosa Hospital; market
was in those days. It was that part of town back them. But
lots of times, I say lots of times, I was going to say that
old Stumberg Store, we bought most of our groceries. He'd
sell a load of p lums o r something. We 'd get a few sacks of
flour, pounds of sugar and all that kind of stuff.
SC: And you bought the flour in a great big, like 50#
sack?
DJ: Yes, mam.
SC: Did you buy barrels of stuff, like a barrel of ... ?
DJ: We never did, you know what I mean , but some people
did.
SC: Some people did. And the crackers. Were they in a
box? Can you remember about crackers?
DJ: I don't know about crackers. I don't remember.
SC : Were the pickles in jars?
DJ: They was in jars. We never did buy too much stuff like
that. Canned that at home. Most of it at home.
SC: Your mother canned a lot o f things?
DJ: Oh, yes.
JOHNSON
SC: And did she use a pressure cooker or ••. ?
OJ: A pressure cooker. We'd have a day to shell peas.
They'd start in, a bunch of 'em would get together, you
know, put 'em in jars; put 'em up.
We killed a couple of hogs every year.
23
SC: Now when you killed the hogs, did you get to help with
that?
OJ: Oh, yeah, I got in on that.
SC: Did you have a smoke house?
OJ: Oh, yes.
SC: What was it like?
OJ: Well, it was just a little old shack that we had, if
you know what I mean, pretty tight .
SC: And did you actually build a fire in it?
OJ: We have, but we put that curing salt on mostly.
SC: The hams were salted?
OJ: Sure.
SC: Did you have boxes to put the salt pork in?
OJ: Made our sausage at home and hung it up in sacks;
smoked it; aged it. You know what I mean?
SC: And it stayed there all ... ?
OJ: Yeah.
SC: Did you have a water well in your yard, in your house
did you have a cistern or what?
OJ: Well , we had a cistern earlier back where the old place
is, the place where I was raised right next door, they had a
water wel l but it never did turn out to be much. We had t o
depend on rain.
JOHNSON
sc: Sulphur and oil in it?
OJ: Everything.
24
sc: That's like our water. (laughter)
a water well?
Did your family have
VJ: No. I don't remember. I guess when we first moved
here we hauled water.
SC: And then later on the city took over?
VJ: Yes.
OJ: We had some doozies, too. Water systems. They still
haven't got a good water system.
SC: What is the problem with the water system?
OJ: Just cost too much money to get one.
OJ: We can't get good water.
VJ: It costs too much money to ... well, they can't, the
water they have now they say they can't do anything about
the odor.
SC: It has sulphur.
VJ:
Right now we are supposed to get water from Bexar Metro
in San Antonio. Supposed to get it out here in April, but
they haven't even started yet.
HC: Well, Bexar, they're coming out 281. They've already
come to Southside High School. They've got stacks of pipes.
I would think they would probably come out 16 or Somerset
Road.
VJ: What is it? Foster Road? You know that new truck stop
out there on 35? They say ...
JOHNSON
HC: Yeah.
VJ: They say that Bexar Metro has water out to there .
HC: That far. Well , they coul d come right across the
Benton City Road.
VJ: That's what some of them thought.
25
HC: They come across that, it would be closer to Somerset.
SC: How did they fight fires then? Was there a fire •••
when did the fire department I know there's two or
three now on Highway 16; one in Poteet, too. But, I mean
Somerset, too. But how did they fight fires a long time
ago?
VJ: I don't remember having ••.
DJ: We didn't have fire problems in those days
SC: Well, did people burn their grass ..• like now, people
burn
DJ: There was no Coastal then, though.
It wasn't as bad. That's what I was going to say. I
don't think we had that kind of fires. The fires that I
would remember was when lightning would strike.
SC: Well, did eve rybody just go help put it out?
(all talking at once)
HC: My question is, was there an Indian menace? Or was the
Indian problem further back by the l860s?
DJ: Well, I'm not sure, but it would be ... probably
earlier. I don't know.
VJ: It was probably further back.
DJ: Because I picked up those arrow heads. I've got a
JOHNSON
DJ: pretty good bunch of those I picked up on our place
right back of the house.
26
He: Is the arrowheads from is there flint outcroppings
there? Or is that from the Indians fighting ?
DJ: There are signs of the rock there.
He: Signs of the rock there.
DJ:
He: Up at Medina, after every rain, those flint
outcroppings, you could go there after every rain,
arrowheads.
Another question that was brought up when Mr. James was
here. And I asked him the question: Was there any blacks
that lived in Somerset?
DJ: I don't .•.
VJ: I don't know either, but when I was a kid, there was a
Pearl and Henry, I believe were their names. They lived in
that little house down there about where Josie Navarro
lives. Do you remember them?
DJ: Not really.
VJ: That was when we were •.. they used to do washing for
Kipidos. We used to go down there with the Kipidos to get
their laundry. It was Pearl and Henry. And I've heard your
mother talk about Pearl and Henry. But that was the only
couple that I remember.
He: Working in the oil fields and working in the watermelon
patches and so on, they didn't rely on the blacks as much as
they did other people?
JOHNSON
OJ: No. You didn't have the blacks. There wasn't that
many .
27
SC: Did the Hispanics, the Mexican children, go to school
with the Anglo child?
OJ: It was all
SC: The school was not segregated. Did they have a Ku Klux
Klan, do you remember?
OJ: They did. Yes , mam.
SC: Do you have any memories of that?
OJ: I don't; just knowing about it. I think my dad
belonged to that organization.
V: I don't think Granddaddy did.
OJ: You don't think he did? I thought way back there, he
did.
HC: My father did. I think most of them did, too.
SC: Well, can you remember anything you heard about that?
OJ: Well, the barbecues comes to my mind first.
HC: That was held across the road from the Old Rock
Church.
OJ: When thousands, seemingly thousands, would come
together.
SC: Now you mean a lot of people who were members of the Ku
Klux Klan came to that place and had a barbecue? Is that
what you mean?
OJ: Yes. I don't know about the crowd, where there were
any outsiders or not. I think it was just the Ku Klux.
VJ: They had a song they used to sing, "The Ku Klux had a
JOHNSON 28
VJ: barbecue, the meat was very fine. James Stevens and
his men, came to the county line." He was the sheriff or
something.
SC: And he didn't want them to meet?
VJ: I guess that's what he was. I was just a little old
kid. But I remember running around the house singin' that
song.
DJ: I remember that, too. You see, that's in Atascosa
County.
SC: So they met in Atascosa County.
HC: They didn't meet in Bexar County. My father went to a
conclave up in Kendall County. As far as I know, there was
one place, I remember they used to burn the cross there on
the San Antonio River. And my father told us in no
uncertain terms, never go near that place. And we didn't.
SC: Do you ever remember seeing a cross burned?
OJ: No, mam, I don't.
HC: They used to burn that cross down there about once a
week.
DJ: I believe I've seen 'em with their robes on , you know,
like they used to wear. But I can't remember much about it.
Those barbecues, I remember.
VJ: I remember they went around at night. It was mostly at
night.
SC: And had a barbecue.
DJ: Sometimes. Yeah.
VJ: I remember one night Murray was coming home with the
JOHNSON 29
VJ: horses. He as driving old King and Queen; my brother.
And they had been out hauling something and he was coming
in. They came marching out and scared those horses and they
ran away from him. (laughter)
SC: They had on their white robes?
VJ: They had on their white robes.
HC: Now where does the •.. let's see, ••. Atascosa County,
is Lytle in Atascosa County?
DJ: Uh huh. Lytle is in three counties, isn't it?
HC: Bexar County, Atascosa and Medina.
END OF TAPE I, SIDE 1, 45 MINUTES.
TAPE I, SIDE 2.
HC: I heard the story about Justice of the Peace, Judge
Weiderman, running for re-election. One of the candidates,
who opposed him, said that Judge Weiderman didn't live in
Bexar County. And I heard, correct me if I'm wrong, but I
heard Judge Weiderman took the newspaper reporter and some
of those people went out there, and proved that his bedroom
was in Bexar County, his garage was in Atascosa County. Is
that right?
DJ: Where did they, the Weidermans, live?
HC: They lived right near that county line but I don't know
exactly where it is.
DJ: The old place, of course, that was the Brown place that
they settled in later years. I was trying to think where
the Weidermans were, earlier. I knew one time.
VJ: I did too. Went to school with Annie.
JOHNSON 30
HC: I can't remember if that was a made-up story or what.
But I thought it was so funny - across the county ... of
course , I know a lot of times farms crossed county lines
with no qualms whatsoever.
SC: Did you all know about a superintendent who was shot?
Was that while you were in high school?
DJ: Before I got in high school. Wasn't
VJ: Oh, yeah.
DJ: I think so.
SC: What happened? Do you know?
VJ: I don't even know what it was about.
DJ: I'm thinking about the Haliburton now
were mixed up in it somehow.
SC: Now was that the oil Haliburtons?
DJ: No mam. I don't think so.
it?
... Haliburtons
VJ: He was a school teacher, wasn't he? Wasn't Haliburton
his father was a teacher. Ray Haliburton?
VJ: The daughter could throw an eraser.
DJ: she'd throw an eraser. Hit you right between the
eyes every time.
(noise)
VJ: Her daddy was a school teacher there I think ...
Superintendent or something.
remember.
I was little, I don't
SC: Well, what was the man's name that was killed?
Haliburton? Who was shot?
DJ: I don't know really which one it was. Donoho ..•
wasn't he .•.
JOHNSON 31
HC: Donoho was Judge Donoho's father. That's my cousin.
DJ: Donoho was mixed up in that. He was superintendent, I
think.
VJ: He wasn't superintendent when this took place. Because
I remember Mr. Donoho.
SC: But you don't know how it happened.
DJ: Sure don't.
SC: When anything like that happened, was it in the
newspaper? Was there a newspaper then? At that time?
VJ: I don't remember.
SC: Where was the newspaper published; was it published in
Somerset?
DJ: Some of it was.
VJ: I'd think it was.
DJ: I think it was up there where the Super S Store is now.
There was an old building there that had some .•. I know
there was one publisher who printed it there. But I'm not
sure about that.
SC: Well now ...
HD: Would the paper files ever be available?
VJ: Where are the files now?
SC: That would be a good way, since it was a newspaper,
that would be a good way to .•.
HC: The newspaper had merged with something else .••
disbanded ••• it just went out of existence.
SC: Was there a doctor in Somerset?
DJ: Yes, most of the time.
JOHNSON
SC: Where was his office?
OJ: Well , old Doc Ware was there a good many years.
SC: What was his name?
OJ: Ware.
VJ: Didn't we have others before Ware?
32
OJ: Oh, yeah •.. we had some before him. He was the last
one. He lived behind .•• well, right where the Methodist
parsonage is now. His old house was right there. And he
had his office in the drug store. In the Shannon ... Mr.
Shannon owned that drug store.
HC: The drug store now where I remember the drug
store. My uncle lived there, I guess, probably from '33 to
about '40. And in '40, he went to work for •.• driving army
trucks. We lived out here at Lasoya. We used to go across
there all the time and ... was out there, Dodge dealership,
and all that. I remember the drug store , and I remember .• ,
store but I couldn't remember the ... and I remember the
depot being there.
SC: Well , now, Dr. Ware, his name was W-A-R-E, Dr. Ware ,
was he well qualified; was he a good doctor, or ?
OJ: Well , he was one of those .. yes .•• for a country
doctor. Best we had.
SC: Did he make house calls?
VJ: Yeah.
OJ: We had some doctors before that. What's the one that
used to be over at Bexar, old Bexar, the old town of Bexar?
Dr. Hilton, he was an uncle of mine, married one of my
JOHNSON 33
D: aunts, Dr. Hilton. And he was one of those old country
doctors. But that's way back.
SC: Well, now, that was in old Bexar.
DJ: That's one of those •.. you see they had a little town
over there at Bexar.
SC: But it's called old Be~ar (Bex air)
HC: Did Mr. James own that property now or who owns where
the town site was of old Bexar?
DJ: Well, let's see. No, I don't think the Jameses have
ever owned, have they, where the old town was? You know
where Jesse James ... they just got through remodeling in
that house on the corner .•• That's where Aunt Ida and
Uncle Dr. Hilton lived, is right there, on that corner. And
that's where Tom Kenney's store sat, right there.
VJ: Right.
HC: Put me straight, if you can. Going road, was Bexar
right in that area? There, or away from the cemetery?
VJ: It was a little further .•.
DJ: Just a little further on.
VJ: Toward Lytle from there.
SC: Was Rossville a town, was that a ••• I mean, when you
all were little?
DJ: Rossville was at one time .•. yes ..• Yes. I remember
the old store at Rossville. That's later behind the school.
That was about our boundary when I was a kid growing up.
That's about as far as we got away from home. Pretty good
trip.
JOHNSON
HC: Did you used to walk?
DJ: Rode horseback.
HC: What was it, about 15 miles down there?
34
DJ: I don't think it was quite that far. I drove that for
6 years. Of course, I turned there at that big oak tree.
HC: Well, I remember ..• there was one community building
left and I remember when it burned.
DJ: The Grange used to meet . ••. just a marker on the road
now. That's about as far as we ever got away from home.
Lytle the other way; we got to Lytle.
HC: Lytle is not as old as Somerset, is it?
DJ: I don't think so. I don't know, I really don't know,
going back •..
HC: I thought Lytle and Natalia came in about the same time
Medina Lake was built. The dam was built in 1911. And
that's about the same time the railroad went through there.
The railroad seemed to be the life blood of so many of
the towns, like La Coste.
DJ: We were through there a couple of weeks back. Little
two story hotel there .•.
HC: They have restored that. La Coste is to me one of the
prettiest little towns around.
DJ: I tell you. I hate to say, but a lot o f that stuff is
just lost.
VJ: In our smoke-house we had two steps going down, it was
a ground floor. Had a big box out there and she would go
down in that box, she would dig down in there and they had
JOHNSON 35
VJ: ashes allover the meat and she would rake back the
ashes and pullout a ham. She would take it into the
kitchen. It was wrapped in cloth and she'd take that cloth
off of it. And she would get that old lye soap and she
would wash that ham just real good, rinse it off, dry it.
The best ham you ever tasted. She didn't have salt on it.
They sprinkled ashes over the top of it.
SC: It didn't have sugar or salt?
DJ: The ash helped dry it out.
VJ: It didn't have anything. It was just real good ham.
SC: It stayed all summer, I mean end of winter, they ...
DJ: We killed two hogs a winter as a rule. Just small, you
know
HC: How large was your family?
DJ:
HC: There's just two of us in the family. We killed one
hog. Of course, our hogs were pretty big hogs. We'd kill
one about the first good cold norther, we'd kill a hog.
END OF TAPE I, SIDE 2, ABOUT 10 MINUTES.