INSTITUTE OF TEXAN CULTURES
ORAL HISTORY PROGRAM
INTERVIEW WITH: Rufe H. Jordan
PLACE: Pampa, Texas
DATE: 1 July 1989
INTERVIEWERS: Bill and Precious Gregg and Mike Andrews
BG: Well, I won't say that's good necessarily. This is the
1st of July 1989. We're in Pampa, Texas. We're inter­viewing
the former sheriff, Rufe H. Jordan, in his home.
Sheriff Jordan .•.
J: Yes, sir, that is my name, and I reside at 312 North
Gray Street, Pampa, Gray County, Texas - have all my life,
which is about 76 years ago last October the 8th. Is that
enough identification, if you please?
BG: Thank you. Mike .•.
A: Glad to be involved again in one of these interviews
and especially one with Rufe. He's one of my heroes in this
part of the state.
BG: Precious •.•
PG: And I'm Precious Gregg, Bill Gregg's wife, with the
Institute of Texan Cultures.
BG: And you've already heard me, Bill Gregg.
All right, Sheriff, now we understand that you've been
rather extensively interviewed before, and we're going to
write down the names of all these books and take 'em back
JORDAN 2
BG: to the Institute, and we understand about this tape
that Mrs. Steele made and are arranging to get a copy of
that for the Institute. So, we don't have to burden you
today with a lot of things. If you can think of something,
perhaps unusually interesting or whatever suits your fancy,
we'll just make a nice short interview out of this so you
don't have to be bored with another set of interviewers
sitting around your house. ( Laughter)
PG: Why did your folks come to Pampa? Do you know?
J: My father came to this county in 19 and 08 from Tilman
County, Oklahoma. I think he was about 21 years of age at
that time. Let's see, in 19 and 10 he returned back there
and married my little mother and brought her to this county
where I was born, the 8th day of October 19 and 12.
He was employed by the Furneau Cattle Company for a
number of years - one of the largest English syndicates
anywhere in the .•. this portion, part of our state - taking
in about four counties, parts of four counties. The larger
part of that ranch was in Gray County, Texas, of course.
And then the foreman of that operation, or the general
manager, I'll say, E. S. Graves, in 19 and 20 was elected
the sheriff of this county when the county seat was at
LeFors, Texas - a small city in the central portion, part,
of our county. And my father had been with him a number of
years, and next ..• well, in other words, he went to work for
him as a deputy sheriff soon thereafter.
JORDAN 3
J: And then in 19 and 28, I believe, the courthouse was
voted, the county seat to be brought to Pampa. And in 19
and 29 it was moved up here. And where the Worley Building
is now, an office building here was the building of the
First Baptist Church, and they had moved right down here
where they are now on West Street, and the large stone
building was vacant and they moved the courthouse facilities
in there in '29.
The courthouse was under construction and was
completed, and the first people to move into offices in the
courthouse was the sheriff, Sheriff E. S. Graves. And my
father and two other officers brought the first prisoners
into the new jail. At that time I was about sixteen years
old, or 17 years old, and I was there when they were making
entry into the courhouse with these prisoners. I believe
there was 16 or 17 of them when they brought them in and put
them in the place of confinement.
That courthouse is a very fine courthouse and has been
here all these years, and ... although there were some people
throughout the central and the south end of the county
that'd rather the county seat would not have been in Pampa.
And I can understand that very well; surely I can. But it
has been a great county; it's grown a lot in the last 25
years or 35. I think the population of this county now is
about ... around 29,000 population. It used to be a little
larger than that, back, oh, I think we referred to it as
white oil days here, five or six years ago, but that's
JORDAN 4
J: probably all gone, too.
But it's a very nice county and, of course, I think it
is, having been reared here and attended school here and
everything else, but it is a good county. There's 957
square miles in Gray County. It was named after Peter B.
Gray, one of the first Texas legislators.
It was a frontier operation in the Panhandle of Texas,
even when I can remember and I'm by far •.. being one of the
older people in this locality, but I am 76 years of age.
And I've seen many changes and I've seen lots of happenings,
and I took an oath when I was a young man that I'd never
have anything to do with the enforcement of the statute
law.
My father was an officer a long time; his father was an
officer for several years - during the reign of the
presiding judge, Henry Parker, that used to be in Fort
Smith, Arkansas, before any of us was born . And . • . but
that's hearsay and I have really no evaluation on it, but
it ' s been something else, surely it has. And as I ' ve
repeated prior, I never intended to be .. • I never intended to
be a law enforement .. .
BG: Did you have anything to do with that bank robbery?
Did they catch anybody? Did they go to jail here?
J: One . .. I was attending school, Kings Mill, Texas, seven
miles to the west. Where did you all get into that bank
robbery?
BG: From the other people we've interviewed.
·JORDAN 5
J: Oh, you already interviewed a bunch. Well, anyway, I
was attending school out there and I was in the sixth grade.
Pauline McAlister Beard was my teacher and I took care of
her the last few years prior to her death several years ago.
She has two sons - one is in Beaumont, Texas, in charge of
this county organization and the other one is with a cattle
corporation in Houston. So, she was here alone and I looked
after her until she went away . But she was teaching school
there and was principal of the little school.
At that time there was over 2,000 people in Kings Mill.
That's when they were putting in all those 50 to 55 thousand
barrel tanks . First they ... 45, 50 thousand barrel tanks or
55 thousand .••• was at 18 or 20. My father at that time
was putting the earthen firewalls around all those tanks and
I was attending school there.
But she sen t me to town and said, "Rufe, go get eight
rolls of paper . Ride your pony in there and be back by 15,
20 minutes after one." That was just before noon. I was a
big fat kid and I said, "You bet." And I took off. I was
riding a little white horse we called Snowball, and where
the fire department is now, across the street, there was a
windmill there and a watering trough for people to water
their cattle . The stockyards just across the tracks there .
And I rode up and tied my horse and started across the
street; where Moses ' is today they were putting that in .• .
It was, well , in other words, the first occupant of that
JORDAN 6
building was Sam Fenberg , 'Meet Sam and Wear Diamonds '.
J: (Laughter) A jewelry store, yes , ma ' am.
PG : That ' s a good philosophy . (Laughter)
J: Oh, I've known Sam for years . In fact, I've thought a
lot of Sam Fenberg and Molly both. Anyway , as I arrived at
the corner of that edifice , there on Main Street, the First
National Bank, just across the street from it, I saw people
running around. I couldn ' t comprehend what was going on -
had no conception or idea. But I looked up directly and saw
Uncle Ernest Graves, the sheriff of the county, had been for
quite some time, if you please .
This was the 31st day of March 1927. And I said,
"Uncle Ernest, what is agoin ' on here?" And he said, "Rufe,
get on your horse and get out of here. They've just robbed
that bank." Well, that disturbed me very much and set me
wild afire and the curiosity of any Irish lad, and here I
went to Prairie View lookin' to see what I could see, and I
had no business doing that . But, of course, they
immediately left and they got about, little over 50,000
dollars out of that bank in about twenty minutes, I guess.
Then went out Borger Highway and they stayed at the brick
house out there, belonged to Mr . Archer - it does not, of
course, now - he 's been deceased a lonq time. They stayed
there until 3:00 a .m. the next morning . It was a brand new
home, double garage . They pulled up in one of those gar­ages,
and there was five of them, and they went in ever 8,
10, 12 minutes at the time. Not creating any curiosity or
JORDAN 7
J: anything else on the highway there, and they were there
until 3:o'clock a.m. the next morning.
And they were going to Borger, Texas. Well, they'd
been in Borger, holed up over there until the time to do
this bank robbery. But Whitey Walker had a brother over
there, Hugh Walker, and he wanted to pick him up and he did
J: and they got on out of here.
It was 19 and 30 - September 1930, I believe, when my
father returned Ace Pendleton back to this county, one of
the five bank robbers. And had him in jail for quite some­time,
but never could get him out .•. Well, Mr. Archer just
would not identify him; he was scared to. I didn't blame
him. But he was here in this jury room up into the latter
part of November and he was a victim of tuberculosis, and
had been kept in the jury room up here under strict guard
around the clock, and I visited with him a lot. In fact,
the day that he left here to catch an airplane out of here,
he said, "Someday, Rufe, you'll want to shave." And he gave
me his safety razor; it's back there now. I've had it now
since, that was in November 1930, that razor - the handle
that's on it, the threads wore out on it, put another on it,
but still have the head of that safety razor.
But the only time I've ever heard of Ace since that was
Mrs. Blanscet - her husband was the sheriff following E. S.
Graves. She sent me a clipping from the Denver Post, a very
lengthy one. And, well, that was some 17 or 18 years after
he'd gotten out of this jail. But he made mention of the
JORDAN 8
J: fact, being interviewed and interrogated by the news
media in Denver, that the greatest and quickest job he'd
ever been connected with in his life was in Pampa, Gray
County, Texas, and told when and how much and so forth. Of
course, the statute of limitations had run ••.
PG: ... Out.
J: •.. Completely out and ... Oh yes, there's been a lot of
those.
And then we had a bank robbery down in Alanreed, Texas,
the first six weeks that Sheriff Ron Blanscet was in jailor
was running the jail. He was a big, one-armed cowboy -
rodeo performer. Knew no more about a jailor being sheriff
than probably when I went in or went out, even, but he was
one time champion bulldozer of the world. I don't know what
that means either. But when he lost that arm in a shooting
accident in the Davis Mountains, why, I guess he couldn't do
anything else. So when Sheriff E. S. Graves did not seek
re-election - there was 12 or 14 running for sheriff, sought
the office - Ron was elected. He knew just about as much
about the sheriff's office ... well, I just don't know.
But anyway, in he went and he did have some very good
men and he caught on very quickly himself. And the 4th day
of February 19 and 31, he'd been in office ••. he'd been in
office five or six weeks and here they went. And this
couple of fellows, one - their names were, let's see, Roy
Stevenson and Roy McGee, they were brothers-in-law. McGee
married Stevenson's sister. And McGee was a very good
JORDAN 9
J: fellow; the other fellow was the known offender, had
just been out of the institution probably - penal
institution - probably about 5 or 6 months, but he was here
visiting his sister and her husband, and the little bank at
Alanreed, now, is, well, I don't imagine there was over 50
or 60 people there, but back in those days there was a few
hundred and a few stores and there's a few there now. But
they had a bank there and it was run by a fellow named L. B.
[Rufe could not again recall this name], he was the
president of the bank; they robbed it and got six or seven
hundred dollars. Shot up Jim Bryant, if you please, who was
one of the greatest men in the south end of the county
anywhere. He was a blacksmith, shod horses, and made
knives. I have some of his butcher knives here in my
residence. He wa lked in - 83 or 4 years old, hard of
hearing, didn't see good. Stevenson said, "Put up your
hands. We're robbing the bank." And he said, "Hang", or
something - COUldn't hear - and he shot him.
The old gentleman lived right on the highway, right
there , and the rest of his days he stood there in his horse
lot where he shod horses, his blacksmith shop, and talked
each and every Sunday about the bank robbery in Alanreed and
his b e ing 'wounded' [Jordan deliberately mispronounces the
word] on that particular day. (Laughter) And I've talked
to him until I've g iven out but he was a great old man. And
he has a son now that - Sonny Bryant - that runs the Black
Hole Restaurant; it's been here 2, 3, 4 years.
JORDAN 10
J: But there's been a lot of happenings in this county;
surely there have ...
BG: You wanted to ask him about the horse breaking .•.
PG: Oh ...
BG: .•. colored porter
PG: We were told something interesting, but not the whole
PG: story about a man named "Mose," a black porter on the
railroad.
BG: And breaking a horse.
J: He ••. that man came into this country a long time before
I was born.
PG: Uh huh.
J: He was a very slim fellow - 5 foot 11, weighed 148 or
50 pounds. He worked on the ranches .•• come on down in
through here and come on back out down through yonder. The
mostly highly respected Negro that I've ever known in my
life. I venture to say that he was on the grand jury in
Amarillo for anywhere from, I believe I'd say from eight to
ten years. They wanted a black man on there and they just
selected him. It just looked that way to me. And he was on
the grand jury for years and years. And he was loved
throughout this country by these ranchers and cowmen who
knew him and had sponsored him in many things, as far as
that's concerned.
He was a porter on the Santa Fe , and I was not present
when the riding of this very vicious outlaw horse took
place. I was just a button anyway but I wasn't present, but
• JORDAN 11
J: it's been documented and talked about ever since. This
horse had neVer been ridden. And he belonged to Moe Davis,
if my memory serves me correctly, and he was a large horse,
weighing 1100 pounds - a very active horse that refused to
be ridden under any circumstances. And no one had ridden
this horse, I believe in this story that I have. But, they
said, "Let's see if We can get, you know, Hooks and See what
he can do." Well, he was then the porter on the Santa Fe.
And he was wearing that cap and so forth and so on. He
said, "Why, yes, I'd be glad to. I'll take my stand with
this horse." And I believe they called him Kerosene or Coal
oil or something. Well, anyway, they stopped the train
right there at the end of Frost Street - what is Frost
Street now, runs up there, the railroad track - and they
just stopped the train there for a few minutes and there was
a number of people there, apparently 40 or 50. Moore
Davidson brought the horse in, unloaded him out there, they
saddled him. Hooks .•. somebody gave him a pair of boots,
pair of spurs; he didn't have any. But he rode Coal oil
right out there where the baseball park used to be - the
baseball park when We Were in the West Texas-New Mexico
League. And it has gone down in the annals of history in my
lifetime as he being the only man that ever rode ... and I
think they called the horse Coal Oil; I believe that's
right, I'm really not sure. Anyway, it's a very good
story.
JORDAN 12
J: And I've known Hooks well ever since I was a young man,
and I thought he was a very fine man, a very, very capable
man. He lived in Amarillo, Texas, and was highly
respected.
PG: Did they wager any bets on that?
J: Oh, I would say without knowing for sure that they all
wagered a few bets. (Laughter) That was quite a bunch of
J: guys. But they are the men that pioneered this county.
They surely are.
A: During your tenure, Sheriff, what would you say your
biggest challenge was, during that tenure ••• whether you
think you were able to meet that challenge, or whether it's
ongoing, or what are your ideas on that?
J: Oh, there's been so many of them, Mike. I don't know.
(Laughter) I've had challenges all of my life. The big,
one-armed sheriff that I mentioned that I worked for him
when I was 19 years old, for 7 months, and as I repeated
prior there, never intended to get in the field of
enforcement. But I liked him very much and I worked for him
about, between 7 or 8 months and left. I'd finished high
school, determined to have a degree in law; surely I had the
finance to do that - my grandfather had left me money to
study law with.
PG: Uh huh.
J: I am Rufe Jordan of the fourth generation of Jordans,
and the last Rufe Jordan, and the last generation of
JORDAN
J: Jordans, I guess. It seems to me like they are all
marrying and everything, under different names.
13
But my great grandfather come from County Galway,
Ireland, in 1859, to about Plains, Georgia, where
past-president Carter resides, and in there, right in that
area. His name was Rufus Jordan; his eldest son bore the
name; my grandfather's eldest son's name was Rufus Jordan.
And when I was born here, 22 miles south of where we are
setting, I don't think the clan asked my little mother if
she had a name for me; they just trooped in and told her.
(Laughter)
But anyway, that's fine •.• but anyway, I don't know. I
worked for •.. for about 12 years. Mrs. Jordan and I married
in 1934, the 5th of February, and I had been out there,
then, since the 3rd of January, 1933. And I was there for
12 years; in fact, I was there 13 years. Phillips Oil
Corporation. They were ••. they had the big refinery •.. 18
miles ..• this one here. This one was 2 1/2 miles east of
Pampa. And ... but after they purchased the Phillips ...
purchased the thing, why, Sheriff G. H. Kyle - better known
as 'Skinner' Kyle - was the sheriff here then, and he used
to work for my father years ago.
He wanted me to go to work for him and I did not care
to. I'm sorry, but I didn't, as I repeated a half a dozen
times. I didn't care to think about it at all, and I t old
him so but .•. as I wasn't very fond of the operation of his
office. In other words, he was a big muleskinner and a farm
JORDAN 14
J: boy- that's where he got the name, 'Skinner', and he run
things just about like he run a three-horse team to Fresno.
But I was very fond of him and I helped bury him about 11
years ago. And his children are .•. I believe he still has
three of them alive, and so forth.
But anyway, I said, "No, I will never . •• I don't want
any of the enforcement of statute laws at all." But the
last time he talked to me ... and I was in the employment of
Phillips at that time, head of security out there ... and he
said, "I know that you're not very fond of my department."
And I said, "Why, I won't comment in regard to your
deparment; I don't do that." But he said, "If you'd like to
come there and go to work for me as my chief deputy sheriff,
bring your people with you."
Well, the first of October .•. and I still wasn't pleased
with anything ... but the first, or the fifth of October,
whichever it was in 1946 ••. no, no, it was in February
1946 ..• 1 did come to the office of sheriff with my own
people. I kept the officer at McLean, Texas, far south end
of the county - an old gentleman named Charlie Russell.
Anyway, I'd suggested very strongly to the sheriff, I said,
"Now, •.• want the officers you have in your employment at
this time to have 30 days prior notice that they're not to
be there, in the service, when I get there." "You bet." He
was a good man; I was very fond of him. But there was
things that he didn't see the necessity of and couldn't do
and maybe I'll say wouldn't do. But anyway, when I arrived
JORDAN 15
J: there that morning at 8 o'clock, he had notified his
people the night before (laughter) that I would be there,
and he'd gone elk hunting with Artie Carpenter and four or
five other fellows and I didn't see him for 39 days after I
arrived at that office.
PG: Oh.
J: But anyway, it has been a long story, it surely has
been, and I've been connected with the office of sheriff for
J: about 43 and a half years. It would be 44 but there
was about six months period there that I was running for
office of sheriff and ... but I have about, I think it's 43
and a half years on my retirement, and so forth.
BG: You didn't mention what happened to that law degree.
J: No, sir. I was ready to go; in fact, I was packed. My
mother was an invalid - a little invalid woman, bless her
heart. She lay in one bed over twenty years. I buried her
the fourth day of April, 19 and 58. I had two younger
brothers; one is deceased now - brother Al. And Harold - or
Charlie to these people of this county - he's still alive
but a very ill man and •.. in the hospital three to five times
a year. But he's doing all right; he's out now. But I had
both of them in high school and looked like they were both
wanting to quit school and go out and go to work. So, I did
not .•. I did not participate or go ahead with what I had in
mind, and remained here and have been here ever since. Yes,
I wanted a degree in law very badly, and my paternal grand­father
left $7600 dollars in the bank for me to study law on
JORDAN 16
J: and told my mother, said, "Don't tell him until he's a
senior in high school." But they all knew that I did,
definitely wanted to make a study of law; surely I did.
And . ..
But anyway, it has been a long time; it's been many
changes. We speak of changes of venues in criminal courts
of law. There's been many changes of venue throughout the
penal codes in the law of the land in the last 50 years;
there surely has. I look, view and observe, and sometimes I
wonder, and I'm very strong for progress. I'm strong for
progress, but sometimes I wonder if we're getting the job
done today, like we were 40 years ago.
Sometimes I wonder why we're in the pO$ition that we're
in, to have over 39,000 people in the penitentiary in the
state of Texas. It costs about 84 thousand dollars, 84
thousand dollars a day •.. I get to wondering why we do not
have room for that one who runs, hides and violates the
statute laws of this land. Of course, there is just one
deterrent to crime, my friend, and that's the fear .•• of the
known offender violating the statute law, who pays his debt
to society behind the bars, locked doors, until he satisfied
the judges and the courts throughout the land that he's
connected with ••.
PG: Uh huh.
J: I'm not displeased. But maybe I should say I am not
too well pleased with the fact that we do not have places
for those people. And the whole thing in the nutshell is,
4 ·"
JORDAN 17
J: there isn't ..• the fear isn't there that it was 25 years
ago, of being confined in any institutions in America, as
far as that goes. I believe that without knowing ... But I
will say for Texas, taking into consideration the days that
I'm speaking of, when I was going to Toe with my father -
and he worked with from 3 to 5 or 6 inmates - there never
was over 12 or 14 thousand inmates there ... Taking into
consideration the state of Texas is twice as large as it was
then, I feel like it's twice as large.
Lee Simmons was the general manager, operator of that
system, and really, I was not too fond of him because he was
a very hard-cored man. And maybe the last two or three
years I've wondered if I was too hard on him. I mean, not
to open my mouth and say a word, but I thought he was a
rough individual. His people were rough. Today it's
altogether different.
BG: Uh huh.
J: You can walk down through there now .•• (Bell rings)
Excuse me .•.
PG: Sheriff, that is a part of your character you just put
on it, now, how you felt ...
BG: Yes, I've got the tape running.
J: .•• my friends, I ... In a radius of a hundred miles of
where we are sitting now, I can look at merchants and
business men whom I knew back when they were 17 to 19 years
old, in this locality .•. not mean, not vicious, just
ornery ...
JORDAN 18
P: Uh huh.
J: ••. into something all the time. But they're top-flight
ducks . The thing o f it is, much time must be spent in the
enforcement of statute l aws, to take care of these young men
a long with men just like this one to my left who gives of
himself to rearing and raising those kids - teaching them
and instructing them. A sheriff and his officers need to do
the same thing. There's a di ffere ntial in that kid - this
guy that's 25 t o 30 years old, that's violating the law
forcefully and dangerously. And we •• • I'm very proud of the
fact that in a period of a number of years that we've been
instrumental in rearing and helping a lot of young men and
young women, to get themselves occupied and their lives
constructed in a rightful manner. Oh , I came into the
office of sheriff .•.
(coughing)
PG: Can I get you some water?
J: No, ma'am; that's fine. I have an allergy I've had
since I was 7 years o l d and I still have it, but ..•
PG: Did you ever work with the Rangers?
J: No, ma'am. Oh, yes, I've worked with them al l of my
adult life. I was fixing to get into that here in just a
minute. To begin with, back when my father was an officer,
and I grew up under his supervision, of course, and he was a
very strict , reserved fellow . We didn't drive up and down
Foster Road until 11:30, 12 o'clock at night. He wouldn 't
put up with that. And I weighed two hundred eight, ten,
JORDAN 19
J: twelve pounds, playing football until harvest was in,
but he wanted me to retire at a reasonable hour. , But I have
no comment about that except •.. being home, too. In fact, I
told a bunch of 'em over there just the other night, "You
need to be in bed and I'm going to count to 26 - that's as
far as I can count - and you'd better be gone." (Laughter)
Anyway, in 1984, I was a charter member of the Knife
and Fork Club here and past-president of said club - Mrs.
Jordan and I. And I observed where Robert Gadbury, Wichita,
Kansas, was returning back here for a speech; he was a
speaker at our meeting. And I •.. there was no way that I
could attend; I just knew that I could not attend the
gathering, meeting, at all. But as I looked over the
invitation and observed who he was, and so forth and so on,
and I'd heard him prior in Borger, Texas, two or three years
prior, and the topi c of his speech for the evening was,
"Let's don't sell the buggy" ...
My mind reverted back to 1923, when I was about 11 or
12 years old, in the deep south end of this county, and my
father drove up in a brand new Chevrolet touring car - and
none of you have ever seen one. (Laughter) The radiator
was about that high, and the top was as high as the ceiling.
And there was four of us youngsters - I was the eldest and
Charlie here was the youngest.
My little mother was a very nice, very capable and
highly educated person and a lovely lady, and, of course, I
would say that. But he said, "Mother, I bought you a new
JORDAN 20
J: car." And we were all out there, awing and shawing, we
young 'uns were, in regards to the black Chevrolet touring
car. My mother was a very quiet and reserved lady and she
observed and looked and said, "It is a very nice car." And
he was overly enthused over this automobile and he said,
"Oh, Mother, I bought this car for you and these kids.
We've got to have an automobile." Now, he'd had an old 1919
Ford someone'd gave him - his father or somebody. I can
remember quite well, he'd jack up the left rear wheel when
he was cranking it, you know, in the cold and bad weather.
But it wasn't any good. But, anyway, that's all he could
talk about, was that black Chevrolet.
And it rocked along into the evening and we had our
evening meal about 6:30, and he sat at the head of the table
and mother at the head of this table - two young'uns at
either side - and he was still talking about the black
Chevrolet. And in her gracious way, eventually and
directly, she said, "Frank," - that was his name - "I'm so
proud of the automobile. And, you know, Rufe, when we
started him to school he was riding horseback. And he rode
to Groom School .•. " That was in Carson County - we lived in
Gray County - but I don't know whether we had any school
districts there or not. But anyway, I was riding a pony to
Groom School - 3, 3 1/2 miles. And when my sister, next to
me, begin to start to school, she would not ride a horse,
and so I drove Billy Bob to the buggy, to school. And she
made mention to him, "You know, we've driven this bay horse,
JORDAN 21
J: Billy Bob; our son has ridden him, our daughter has rid­den
in a buggy behind him, when we can't make it to church
on Sunday unless we're in the surrey and he's up to it, and
he takes us there regardless of the depth of the snow. And
as I look back and wonder and evaluate to the best of my
ability, I wonder if we don't need to ••. well, let's don't
sell the buggy until we know what we're doing." Well, I
went to hear Robert Gadbury's speech and it was along that
very line that I've just related - had to do not only with
the statutes and enforcement o f the law but various other
things. Let's look and try it well before we proceed in
that direction.
And it was quite a speech, quite a speech. And I told
him after the gathering, at the reception, if you please, I
said, "I'm glad you brought that up. I heard that a long
time ago, 'Let's don 't sell the buggy. '"
And at the Sheriff's Convention in .•. oh, I don't
know •.. four years ago this July, I was on the program of the
Sheriff's Convention at Waco - that's where it is this year.
This month. That was the topic of my speech, 'Let's don't
sell the buggy.'
And, as I look back to the field of law enforcement, I
look back there ... you know, the Ranger service is the oldest
law enforcement organization in the state of Texas. I was
given a commemorative gun, Bowie knife, rifle, from the
Chick Hickmans that used to be here. Did you ever know 'em?
A: Didn 't know them.
JORDAN 22
J: They were g reat people . They buried him here, oh, two
years ago , I guess; they'd moved to Austin - very wealthy
people . But they'd purchased this for me, for Christmas
nine years ago .
PG : Good grief .
J: And I wouldn ' t take anything in the world for it. It ' s
in a strong box at the bank, and I a l so have one on the
Texas sheriff ... l50 years old . And I have - they ' re in
J: walnut , velvet-lined boxes and all that ; they ' re
beautiful. And I definitely believe , Mike, that there'll be
a day when they ' re gonna be very valuable . The
Rangers ... the Texas Ranger said there were 2500 of them
made, and the Sheriff ' s Association commemorative set was,
well, 2,000 . And oh, I wouldn ' t take anything for 'em; I
wouldn ' t take anything for ' em. And as I repeated prior, I
do have 'em in strong boxes at the bank and so forth .
PG: Uh huh.
J: But, anyway, as my mind reverts back fifty- some odd
years ago , to the enforcement of the statute laws of our
great state , and I can see men like ~\. T. Gonzales - better
known as Lone Wolf - any of you ever hear of him? M. T.
Gonzales ... Hale Kirby, Gully Cowsert , Gul l y .. . could be
coming down the street in his shorts and you could of told
he was a Texas Ranger - 6 feet 4, 190 pounds and very quiet
and reserved , but he never failed to do what he started out
to do . And •.. and of course, Frank Hamer , some of those men ,
they were truly . .. as we look at the statute laws today, in
JORDAN 23
J: comparison with back then when they were operating, we
have a time making a comparison. Because the penal code was
nothing like it. And .•. but they got the job done, they
truly and surely did. I can remember hanging in the
Colonel's office in Austin, and has been for fifty years . I
was attending Criminal Investigator's School there when, oh,
I don't know, it was in 1947 or 8 - somewhere along there -
and the last two days of that school .•. M. T. Gonzales was
there teaching report writing; he'd never written three
reports in his life. (Laughter)
And he'd been here in this county with three other
Rangers in 1930, protecting a black man from a mob. A very
vicious crime had happened in Shamrock, Texas, and they'd
captured him over in Oklahoma. He was in jail in Hollis,
the mob was after him, went to Enid and eventually brought
him t o this new jail here in Pampa, Texas, one morning at
(
4 o'clock. Flew him in here; and in those days there were
not three men could fly an airplane at night. But anyways,
he was here and the venue was changed from Wheeler County to
Roberts County . He was tried at Miami. They are 28 miles
apart - not a very big change in venue - but anyway, he
received the death penalty and rightly so .
And before I proceed any further from that ..• you know,
today we have 2,236 in death row in America - five of them
are women. They ' ve been there from two and a half to
thirteen and a half years, in death row. This fellow
•
JORDAN 24
J: received ... was convicted in a capital case; of course ,
it ' s an automatic appeal . Went to Austin for appeal,and I'd
say, without being absolutely sure, that, in other words , in
three months they'd affirmed the appeal and it came back.
The new sheriff •...... - had come in. In five weeks he
took him to Huntsville, Texas, and the 17th of May he took
him down - he took him down the first of April - and the
17th of May he wsa electrocuted . That does not occur in
this day and time ...
BG : Too many lawyers.
J: I won't say too much - I don ' t want to make any
derogatory remarks - but I have my own way of viewing
things .
But the Ranger service at that time was an exceptional
service . What they didn't do, couldn ' t be done .
And back to M. T. Gonzales, if you please. He was
instructing in report writing and I was sitting there, and
he'd been up here when I was a button - 16, 17 years old -
in this court house. Slept in this jury room . He and Hale
Kirby and Bob Huddleston , Jim Goss, protecting this black
man that I was previously speaking of. I was sitting on the
front seat and John Payne, sheriff of Dickens, was larger
than I am, and M. T. was looking at both of us . That was
the last day and his second day in instructing in report
writing . The last day was the night of the banquet and so
forth. Mrs. Jordan was with me , and he came up to me
during, just prior to, being seated at the table, I believe,
JORDAN 25
J: and said, "Rufe, I've known you somewhere before the
last twenty two hours ." I said, "Yes, you surely have,
Captain." And we visited there a minute. He said, "I've
arrived at the conclusion that you were that fat kid that's
hanging around the sheriff's office .•• " (Laughter) And I
was the fat kid. (Laughter) And we were great friends, and
we were friends then and ..• but back to his report writing.
Oh, back in 19 and 27 or '28, he and Hugh Jones were
down on the border, and they were running horse thieves.
Now, his report reads something like this ... it's mounted and
hanging up in the Colonel ' s office - Colonel Joe Miller -
it's framed, it's about that long and that wide, just very
brief. It says, "We contacted the enemy and they lost.
Lone Wolf Gonzales and Hugh Jones." (Laughter) Well, that
isn't a bad report. 'Course, killed all three of 'em, is
what happened, you know. (Laughter) Whether that's good,
bad o r indifferent, I don't know. (Laughter)
But anyway, the enforcement of the statute laws is
something, and, surely, we must have it . We must have it;
we've got to have it. And .••
BG: Sheriff, I'm running out of tape, I'm sorry to say.
And because we can get a copy, I believe, of the tape that
Mrs . Stee le made of you •..
END OF TAPE I, Side 1, About 45 Minutes