INTERVIEW WITH:
INTERVIEWER:
DATE:
PLACE:
INSTITUTE OF TEXAN CULTURES
ORAL HISTORY PROGRAM
Thida Khus
Esther MacMillan
August 4, 1984
Institute of Texan Cultures
FOLKLIFE FESTIVAL 1984
M: This is an interview with Thida T-H-I-D-A Khus K-H-U-S and
the place is the Institute of Texan Cultures, Oral History office,
the date is August 4, 1984, I am Esther MacMillan.
Now, you use two words to describe your country. You say "Khmer "
K-H-M-E-R, and you also say "Cambodia".
Which is proper? Or is both?
K: Cambodia, yes roam.
Cambodia was given the name; was given to us by the French .
M: Yes.
K: It is called by the Western World, the outside world, as
Cambodia. But if you talk to our people, we call ourselves Khmer.
It ' s the ethnistic
M: Is Khmer.
our ethnistic is Khmer.
Now you ' re mountain people, aren't you?
K: No .
M: Well, now, I can r emember during the War there was quite a
lot about the Khme r people.
KHUS 2
K: Uh huh.
M: And I thought you were in the ...
K: Which war was that now?
M: The Vietnamese War.
K: The Vietnamese War .
M: I can remember reading about the Khmers and we didn 't know
I
how t o pronounce it -- we ' d say /Khm ers/
I
K: /Ka mer/
M: I had -- you 're not mountain people?
K: No. We are not. We have -- well, the Khmer is not mountain --
t he Laotian, maybe, but not the Khmer .
M: Not the Khmer. What is i t near -- p ut it for me on the map --
where is it on the map?
K: It is southeast Asia . It is -- we have -- near Thailand and
Vietnam and Laos.
M: Near Thailand.
K: And the o ther side has the Gulf of Thailand .
M: The Gulf of Thailand . So you ' re r ight over there .
K: Yeah.
M: Now have you been -- how d i d you get here?
Did you come from your c ountry? Or were you born here?
K: No . I was not born here.
M: You' re not born here.
K: I was in Thailand. I left Cambodia in 1974 .
M: Oh , you did?
K: Yes , my husband got a job in Thailand. And we l eft Cambodia
just four mont hs before the Communists took over.
M: Umm .
KHUS 3
K: And then when the, you know, the world turned up-side-down
back home, you know, back home, we didn'~ have any place to go ,
we were stuck in Thailand. And Thailand didn't want -- didn't
let us stay -- they let us stay just temporarily so we can find
a third country to go. But we 'd had so much trouble having a
country, you know, to accept us.
M: Uh huh.
K: And at last the United States accepted us to come in 1979.
M: You were five years then in Thailand.
K: Yes, Mam.
M: And you came in '79. Where did you land?
K: I land at Rhode Island. Providence, Rhode Island.
M: Did you? In Providence.
Was your husband with you?
K: No . They sent me f i rst with the children because my husband
had to work over there. At that time, they needed him.
M: Oh.
K: So I came first with children.
M: You came first with the children. How many children?
K: I have three.
M: You have three children . Well, how d i d you get to Texas?
K: My husband got a job in Texas; here i n San Antonio.
M: He did?
K: Yes, he got a job and we all moved down here.
M: Oh great. When was that? When did you get here?
K: December , '79.
M: Seventy-nine, that same year that you came over?
K: Yes . Uh huh.
KHUS 4
M: So you didn't have to wait for him very long, did you?
Weren't you lucky?
K: Three months. Very lucky.
M: Very lucky. 'cause I ' ve heard of people who got separated
for years. Did you have trouble with the language? Learning
English? You speak it better than any of the people in your
booth.
K: Well, I -- I don 't have much problems -- trouble -- learning
a language, because we already -- we were introduced to French.
M: You knew French, of course.
K: Yes, before . And the pronunciation at first was difficult,
but grammar wise and you know, written, and alphabetical order,
you know, we already know French. To learn English is easier
for me.
M: It wasn't too bad. Uh huh. You've got good command of
English. What is your native tongue?
K: Khmer.
M: Khmer.
And that's a language by itself.
K: That's a language by itself.
M: Oh, it is? That's interesting. Well, now you're living in
San Antonio from 1979 on. Are there quite a few Cambodians here?
K: We have 400 Cambodians here .
M: Do you? That many?
K: They move in, and you know, new ones keep on coming.
M: Uh huh.
K: You know, our organization is helping them as far as orien­tation
and helping them around -- move around -- teaching them
how to adjust to the life here.
KHUS 5
M: Yeah. What abou t your religion?
Are you Buddhist?
K: Yes, we are Buddhist.
M: And , I know when I talked to Hung Quach, he said he and his
family were Buddhists. And I said what do you do about find ing
a church? And he said that there were services. That they kept
up their Buddhist religion here in San Antonio.
K: Yes, we do.
M: Are you able to?
K: Yes, we are.
M: And no prob lems . That's one nice thing abou t this country,
isn 't it?
K: It is beautiful.
M: They don't fus s about where you go to church. I just love
that about us , we're so f r ee with what we believe.
How old are your childr en now?
K: The e ldest one is fourteen, t hirteen and e leven.
M: You don't look old enough to have a fou rteen year old daughter ,
I must say. (laughter )
K: (laught er )
M: You look about fourteen yourself.
K: We start ed early, you see . You see , I got married when I was
seventeen.
M: Did you?
K: Yes .
M: Well, now you' ve got chil dren growing up now past the baby
s tage , have they had any trouble learning English? Or adapting
themselves to this country?
K: No . Not real l y . Not my children. No. Because my husband
KHUS 6
K: was educated in the United States before .
M: Oh, he was .
K: He was , yes. He was educated . He went to New Mexico State
Univer s ity . And he got his Ph .D. there .
M: Oh, he did.
K: So , more or less , I was helped , you know, by my husband. He
helped me with the language and culture.
M: Uh huh . So it wasn't a shock to him .
K: Sometimes he can help the children.
M: Are the kids doing well in school?
K: Yes, they are do i ng well.
M: Are they?
K: Uh huh.
M: So often the new people coming in -- they are making an effort -­and
the children are doing so well.
K: So well.
M: They don' t want help . They want to help themselves. This is
the thing I love about it .
Well, you 've been here for five years . And how did you decide
to c ome into the Folklife Festival this year?
K: Well, I heard so much about the Fo~life Festival.
M: Yeah.
K: And I decided to come and l ook at it last year .
M: Uh huh .
K: And I went to the Vietnamese booth and helped out and volun­t
eered ; help and observed. And one thing t hat made me fee l good
is - - if different group of peopl e come together and s hare what
they have . . .
M: Yes .
KHUS 7
K: And to me before ann, you know, working, living very closely
with other Cambodians, I observe that - - because we have so much
problems -- you know difficulty to adjust to this culture -- . .
M: Sure.
K: We thought that we had to do everything like you do .
M: Oh.
K: You know , learning to do . . even though it is clumsy some-times,
you know , you force yourse l f.
M: I know what you mean.
K: And you feel that something is not right. You feel like,
you know , you are leaving something behi nd you .
M: I see what you mean .
K: And last year, I came here and I said "This is it." "I
think I 'm going to do it. I am going to bring my people in and
let them see what the others are doing."
M: Good.
K: And maybe by doing this early we can preserve more of what
we ' ve brought with us .
M: Yes .
K: Yes .
M: Weren ' t you smart . Weren ' t you wise.
with you?
K: Yes.
Is your husband worki ng
M: Is he? Because I stopped yesterday. No, was it yesterday?
I s topped one day yesterday or Friday, yeah, it must have been
yesterday . Then most of the people didn ' t understand me. And
then there was one young man and he said you have to talk to my
sister, she speaks good English. You have a sister here -- I
mean a b rother . (laughter )
KHUS
K: A brother - in - law.
M: Brother-in-law?
K: Uh huh.
(laughter)
M: "Oh," he said "you have to see my sister." (laughter)
K: (laughter)
8
M: Well, then you decided to come in this year with your people
to show what you 're doing . And to show, also, to show them what
other people are doing.
K: Right.
M: How did you decide what food you were going to serve?
K: Well, we choose the mildest form of food that we think would
adjust well. You know, or would the taste of the American like.
Something that would be interesting.
M: Now tell me what your menu is. As I haven't tried -- I'm
going to try that tomorrow.
K: O.K. Barbecued Chicken.
M: You've got barbecued chicken.
K: It is seasoned with lemon grass, garlic. We make, you know ,
a paste out of it.
M: Sounds good.
K: And tumeric powder.
M: Ah !
K: And we serve this with the sauce - salad - a combination of
cauliflower, kale, cabbage , seasoned, you know, with garlics and
ginger.
M: Do you use a lot of garlic?
K: Yes , we use a lot of garlic . Yeah .
And the shrimp toast: shrimp on top of bread.
M: Uh huh.
KHUS 9
K: We make into a paste and we deep fry it.
M: That's good. I love that.
K: And fried banana. The fried banana is a banana dipped in the
batter, composed of rice flour .
M: Rice flour? Ah?
K: Rice flour and coconut - shredded coconut - and black sesame seed.
M: Black sesame seed.
K: Yes.
M: I bet that's good.
K: That's what -- yes -- it is very good. It is very good.
M: Do people like it? Are they liking it? I have to try that
tomorrow.
K: They are hesitant -- like, you know , -- because it's new to them.
M: Sure.
K: And they say "Fried banana?"
M: Yeah .
K: And I say "Well, taste one. See how you like it."
M: Yeah.
K: And once they bite it, ann then they just love it.
M: We eat sesame seeds here, but I don't know black sesame.
K: No, I've never seen it in the grocery store. This one you
have to buy i t at the Oriental Store.
M: You do.
Well, I'll have to try it tomorrow a nd see.
Those three things you're selling now.
K: Uh huh.
M: And are your people enjoying this? Are they getting a kick out
of this?
KHUS 10
K: They ' re getting a kick out of it .
This is, again , part of the t h ing that I 'm looking for , you know .
Because before t hey were afrai d of what they like and what they
ate before
M: Oh?
K: Were not accepted by the public , you know , t he people who are
here .
M: Sure . Uh huh. Tha t ' s wonder f ul .
K: And they real ly feel good about seeing that their food sells.
M: Do they?
K: Yes . Yes, they do. I t h ink that ' s helped t heir self esteem
much/ much. You know , helped them a lot.
M: That ' s great.
That ' s one of the wonderful things about this Folklife Festival .
K: That ' s it . Yeah . That ' s it .
M: And the thing I like about it is that it ' s kind of fami l y
oriented .
K: Uh huh . Everybody is
M: Did you notice , when we were pushing through the crowd, how
many kids there are? I mean , little children?
K: Many .
M: You don ' t see that in most big things like t his. It ' s mostly
adults. But these are little children.
And they are all - - especially back there in the Back 40 -­where
the craftsmen are -- the people are weaving baskets and
making soap -- a nd all those old fashioned things. It ' s so good
for the children to do that.
K: So good .
KHUS ll
M: It's just wonderful . So you feel that really what you ' re
contribut ing here is not onl y what you ' re giving to the pub l ic ,
but you're gett i ng something back?
K: We are getting a l ot back , yes.
M: You're going to come back next year, I hope?
K: Yes , we will .
M: And do you - - I don' t know how the - - do you have t o give some
of t he money you make t o the Institute? To the Folkl ife Festival ,
0 ..,_.
or do~ make . . . ?
K: What?
M: The money, t he money that you take in for t he food.
K: Uh huh .
M: Do you get to keep that? Some of that ? Or do you?
K: Oh , they take 20% of what we se l l . Uh huh.
M: Twenty percent , t hat ' s what I wanted to know .
K: The first $5 , 000 , and then afterward , after the $5 , 000 , it
is 15%.
M: It drops down?
K: Uh huh.
M: So then what are you going to use it for? In your own comm-unity
for peopl e who need it or something like that?
K: We are going to use it for help i ng the people who came here.
We a r e still hel ping out with the new refugees -- resettling them
here.
M: Are you?
K: We use this money for emerge ncy . We also use this for .
M: That ' s wonderf ul .
K: We are planning to organize the yout h group because it is very
v-) e, v-.)o.'1'\ ~D ~o..{e o.- V O..V\)
impor tant to keep them, you know.~to h a ve some kind of activity s o
we can get them out .
KHUS 12
M: Sure .
K: And organize activities , like take them out fo r sport or cul­tural
things , dance, and .
M: Are the Cambodians mostly in the same neighborhood? The same
area? Same part of town?
K: Yes . They l ike that. Well, we have some scattered around
town . But we have a big concentration around San Antonio College .
M: You do?
K: Yes .
M: My , that ' s interesting . What does your husband do with his
Ph.D.?
K: He ' s now working with the process control -- it is software -­i
n the .
M: Computer business?
K: Yes , Mam.
M: That' s a wonderful f i eld~apparently 1 for peopl e who have been
trained in that .
K: He was trained - - he had mathematics background .
M: Ah. That he l ps , doesn't it?
K: Yeah, Uh huh.
M: Ah. That was somethi ng I wouldn't care about.
very well .
K: (laughter)
I don ' t do
M: But he had -- did he have that job right from tfie beginning?
K: Yes, yes. We were very lucky.
M: Oh, weren't you lucky!
K: In just two days, he got here. I mean he got here on the 27th
of December, ' 79, and he went to work on the 2nd of January. Oh,
you can't ask for anything more.
KHUS 13
M: No. Isn't that lovely.
K: We're just so lucky.
M: Isn't that lovely? Do you help -- these newcomers -- now the
people that are coming in -- do you help them to find jobs?
K: Yes , Mam . We take care of the things l ike putting them
well, find them a house -- collecting -- we collect clothes all
the time because -- you know -- we cannot afford to buy new clothes
for them. But, generally, getting clothes for them, getting old
furniture, and you know, getting the necessities for them. And
show them how to take a bus, how to go grocery shopping, and then
we find them a job.
M: Uh huh.
K: If their English is very -- if their English is still worse -­you
know -- is still bad -- we send them to school to learn a lit­tle
bit of English just to, you know, get started and put them to
work.
M: Are there places here in town where you can send them for
Engl ish?
K: Yes , we have a school here that we can send them to.
M: You do? Because I know over at Lackland , they have language
schools for practically every language in the world. You don 't .. ?
K: Not that.
M: That ' s military.
K: Yes , that's military. We have a Refugee School , yes.
M: Oh, you do?
K: We have a Refugee School . Yes , Mam.
M: Is it in connection with one of the universities?
K : Nc .. It 's just a church.
KHUS 14
M: It's a church.
K: Yes, it is Federally funded . But it is a church.
M: It is. Federally funded . That's good .
It seems to me that you are a very lucky young lady.
K: Yes, I am.
M: Do you get lonesome for home, though? Do you miss home?
K: Oh, yes. We miss home very much.
M: I should think you would.
K: Yes, yes.
M: Do you think you'll ever be able to go back?
I
The way things are now? It's weird, isn't it? Over~here?
K: It is weird.
M: I can't understand it.
K: That 's the hardest part to think about. Cambodian people
are not migrant people. They love the place where they are born.
M: Uh huh.
K: And we were not prepared at all about this kind of moving
around.
M: Moving around.
K: And this is very hard on us.
M: Have you got relatives , family, still over there?
Mother, Father, Grandmas? Anybody over there?
K: No . I have -- my families are i n France.
M: In France.
K: Yes .
M: Oh.
K: Yes, they escaped to France. ~y went to France in ' 79 . They
left.
M: The same time. -- Well, no.
KHUS 15
M: But they are all r ight, though?
K: Uh huh. They are all right~
M: They're all right.
K: Yeah.
M: I can't real ly imagine what it would be like to be suddenly
jarr ed out of where you have lived all your life -- and suddenly
go into a strange place .
K: A strange place. Yes .
And then the fee ling that, you know , corning to a strange p l ace
and you know, the horne that you used to live in , you cannot go
back , even to visit.
M: Oh.
K: You know, that ' s hard to take.
M: I talked to somebody from Southeast Asi a who said -- he was a
grown up person -- "I will not be able to go back , but I thi nk my
chi l dren might be able to ."
K: That 's what we hope for. Yes .
M: Oh . And he said that was why -- I've f orgotten who this was
but 11 this is why we are keeping our children -- the language alive
we 're keeping our religion ali ve -- we ' re keeping our history and our
family history so that the children -- when they are grown -- perhaps
they can go back and see where they carne from."
K: My husband still believes strongl y that he can go back .
M: Does he?
K: And he said that he will go back when , you know , things settle .
M: They are bound to eventually. It can 't go on like this f orever .
Can we?
K: I don ' t think so , yeah . Well , they have -- they are s till
f i ghting t here and t he resistance is still fighting there to get
KHUS 16
K: the country back.
M: It is so hard to understand. In reading this far away, it is
so hard for us to understand what's going on over there. But in
the meantime, you're safe and you've got a job and you're eating
and you've got clothes and you're part of a community. That's
valuable.
K: Yes. Uh huh. Very valuable. That's why the Folklife Festival
it's something to feel what was missing back there and this is a
nice feeling.
M: That's wonderful. I'm so glaQ.
Do you think of anything else that you'd like to put down on this
tape? To say about your people or about how you feel?
K: I am rather an exception among Cambodian people. The majority
of Cambodian people who camehere to the United States are farmers .
During the Communist -- they kind of systematically executed the
educated ones.
M: They did?
K: They did. So we didn't have very much left.
M: I wonder why. They are afraid of them .
K: They are afraid of them. They are hard to rule. They are
hard to .
M: Sure .
You know, they want ed them to do whatever they wanted .
K: They are hard to rule .
M: And they really did . And you escaped.
K: And we escaped . We were very lucky .
M: You certainly were .
K: Yes.
M: All the way through.
K: And so only the farmers who, you know, did not have much education ..
KHUS 17
M: They are the ones who got over here.
K: They are the ones who did not get, you know, that kind of
treatment.
M: And so, in other words, the people that you ' re having to deal
with. . .
K: Uh huh .
M: You have to help them more than if they were highly intell -
igent or highly educat ed .
K: That ' s right .
M: They need more .
K: The adjustment is more difficult , because ...
M: Is it?
K: Yes , but look at the other side of it. They are the ones
who keep the tradition more than the ones who are more introduced
to the Western World. They tend to mix and, you know.
M: Like your husband being educated in New Mexico.
K: Yeah.
M: How in the world did he ever get to school in New Mexico?
K: He got a scholarship. That was a United States Scholarship to
Cambodia at that time and he was the top -- where he got out of
high school - - he was the f i rst one in that year -- he got the first
place in that year and he got that scholarship.
M: He did? Have you been out there since you 've lived he re. Have
you been to New Mexico?
K: No, I have not.
M: It's a l ovely state. I just love it there .
K: I'd love to.
M: The University is in Santa F~1 isn ' t it?
K: I be lieve it ' s Las Cruces .
KHUS 18
M: It's i n Las Cruces? Is it? I just love that country. There
are mountains out there and they have winter. What kind of eli-mate
do you have i n Cambodia? Do you have winter , snow and .. . ?
K: No. No . It is a t emperate .
M: Is it?
K: Yes.
M: It's not tropical?
K: Yeah , it is tropical. We don't have any snow. Winter and
summer is not so much different as you have here.
M: Uh huh.
K: The summer runs about C> () 70,75.
M: Oh, really?
K: Yes.
M: It's not hot?
K: Not hot. Lots of rain. We have lots, lots of rain. Every-thing
grow. You just throw anything -- it grow. You know the
soil is just so rich.
M: Umm .
K: And the summer is just like here. It's hot.
M: Hot . This is worse than ever . This summer , I tell you,
there is no rain and it's dry . It's just -- what I think about
I shouldn't complain because there are farmers who make their
living depending on rain. I shouldn't fuss but I am fussing any-way
. (laughter)
K: (laughter)
M: Do you think this is what you want on the tape now?
You think this is enough.
K: Yes .
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