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THE INSTITUTE OF TEXAN CULTURES
ORAL HISTORY PROGRAM
FOLKLIFE FESTIVAL
INTERVIEW WITH: Chiqui Linares (Spanish)
INTERVIEWER: Esther MacMillan
DATE: August 7, 1987 - F.F.
PLACE: O.H. Of fice, ITC
M: The difference in interviewing the Spanish group and
all the others is that most of the other ethnic groups came
in from Europe through New York, maybe through Galveston,
but directly here. The antecedents of the Spanish of
course, began in the 16th century in Me xico. Those of us
who live in Texas, know so much about the Spanish operation
in Mexico but when they drifted up
I thought was terribly interesting
I read something that
it said that when the
Spanish first came to Texas, Texas was in the Stone Age .
There were trees , woods and rivers and Indians. The Spanish
brought so much to Texas , it's unique of all the other
ethnic groups; the Spanish is very unique. And while the
story is wel l known as far as its connection with Mexico
goes, what I would like you to do is talk about the Spanish
in Texas.
Did any of your ancestors come over to Mexico?
L: No rnam. We're not from Texas.
M: Neither am I. What are you doing here?
LINARES (Spanish) 2
L: My husband had a few years ago, like 20 years ago ,
passed through San Antonio in one of our tours. We stayed
here for, I guess it was three days . He saw so much talent
here, the Latin bloc you know, that he always was telling me
whenever we want to settle down we're going to settle down
in San Antonio.
M: Really?
L: Always he told me that. I didn't want, because for me
Texas really was cowboy; it was cowboys and Indians. So I
didn't see myself making a flamenco company here. But then
we carne in 1 78 and I love it.
M: Do you?
L: I love it because it's really , it's Spain . It has a
lot .•. the Spaniards left a lot t o the Texans .
M: They did. And that's something I wanted to bring out.
When you think of the early Spanish here in Texas, this was
a wild, primitive country. Look at the things they brought
with them. They brought horses for one thing. They have
left us a heritage ••• the vaqueros , the cowboy tradition .
L: Yes. Vaqueros , yes. Even the games for kids.
M: Oh, I didn't know about that.
L: I have seen so many kids playing the rnata - and that's
from Spain.
M: What does that mean?
L: Materilla y leron(?). It 's a song. And I have seen so
many kids here playing.
LINARES (Spanish)
M: How do you spell that?
L: Materile lire lon.
M: Does that mean kill?
3
L: No. That has no meaning. It's like •.. how you call
in English when you do la, la, la like in music but no
words.
M: Humming?
L: Humming (singing) Materile lire lon. And they take
partners and you have to do like a bird; you have to do
whatever you like more in the world. It's a beautiful
game.
M: Is it like a dance?
L: Yes. They go with hands, like on in one side and the
other group and the one that takes the favorite one of the
other side and they put a name to that. If he like cherries
the best then he says, "I love cherries, la, la, la, la li,
la". So then he says, "You make the cherry." So he comes
to the other side.
M: Ah, that kind of a game. And that comes from Spain.
L: And that's from Spain. Straight from Spain.
M: Anything more? Any games or dances or songs?
L: Dances, there 's lots because ..• of course , like you
said before, all the Hispanic Folkloric come from Spain .
It has a lot of influence like the Veracruzano of Mexico ; a
lot of foot work.
M: That comes from Spain?
LINARES (Spanish) 4
L: Yes. And some of the costumes that the Mexicans use.
Like the charro one.
M: I was just going to ask does that come directly from
Spain? All the silver and the coins and the .•• ?
L: Well, they used to use it that way. Then they started
to ••• I guess because of the money •.. started to take
more.
M: A lot of food. For instance, you've got sangria. That
comes from Spain. Very popular in Mexico. Do you sell a
lot of it in your booth? Is it popular?
L: Very much; very, very much.
M: Do you make it with red wine?
L: We do it with red wine; here we ' re doing it with
Sprite.
M: I use frozen limeade .
L: That ' s mmmm, good.
M: A simple way to do it.
L: That way we do it in the house, too. But we use Sprite
and we use fresh frui ts.
M: Oh, you use fruits? What are you putting in yours • .•
peaches and • • • ?
L: We put apples, oranges, lemon, melon, banana.
M: But it is popular at your booth?
L: Oh yes. We · sell that and also this year we sell clara
and that's from the north of Spain. That 's a mix of beer
with cinnamon and Seven Up.
M: I never heard of that.
LINARES (Spanish) 5
L: Refreshing.
M: The English have a thing called Shandy, a mix of beer
and lime juice.
Is Seven Up common over in Europe?
L: Well, they use lemonade with seltzer.
M: I did some research on Spanish things and we've already
mentioned the horse equipment; the vaqueros. The whole
tradition of the cowboy really comes from Spain, doesn ' t
it?
L: Oh yes.
M: Have you any idea what .•• do you have any idea of the
history of the first Spanish in Texas? Do you have anything
like that?
L: No.
M: They came up as soldiers; the army coming in. There
was hostility. They were fighting the Indians.
Some of the things I read mentioned the fact that when
the Spaniards came in here , the Indians were in the Stone
Age. They were using stone axes, s t one tomahawks, etc . And
the Spanish brought tools.
L: And they were amazed.
M: They brought tools from Spain, through Mexico. So i t
said in this article I read that Spain was kind of a
civilizing influence in the early, early days . You see,
it's quite diffe rent when I interview a Czech, for instance .
It's an e ntirely different thing. They were coming to
evade a draft, economical troubles, church persecut i on . The
LINARES (Spanish) 6
M: Spanish were actually here as adventurers; explorers .
L: Oh yes . Explorers.
M: Do you know anything about the church? The
missionaries?
L: In Texas? I really don't know. I am so sorry because
I am so
M: That's all right.
L: I know about my dance folkloric, how it comes, but the
history with Texas , I should know but -
M: One of the interesting things about San Antonio is its
missions and they're still used; still in good shape. That
was a civilizing influence because the missionaries were
teaching the Indians ••• how to make things, how to ride
horses , how to take care of cattle, how to weave cloth, all
those things they didn 't know anything about .
L: Exactly . It have to be like it happened in Puerto
Rico, also . I know more about Puerto Rico; the Spaniards
in Puerto Rico. When they came t o Puerto Rico, t o explore ,
they brought so many things that none of the Puerto Ricans
knew.
M: Just like here.
L: The food; the customs , living •••
M: How did you get into flamenco dancing?
L: Well, my four grandparents are Spaniards from Asturias.
So I born in a Spanish family but I born in Puer to Rico.
M: Is that so?
LINARES (Spanish) 7
L: My aunt is a dance teacher, instructor. She was my
first dancing instructor. When I was ten, they gave me a
scholarship because they saw me teaching little kids when I
was ten. New York gave me a scholarship to study ..• how
you say, you study how to teach? There's a word.
M: Education.
L: Education, but there's another word. From New York , I
went, I was eleven.
M: How did you get to New York?
L: They gave me a scholarship, the, the Dance ? of
America. To study ballet; that's what I used to do.
M: Oh, you didn't start with flamenco?
L: No, I start with ballet. I started with ballet and
Spanish classical dancing.
M: At eleven!
L: At eleven.
M: You must have been talented.
L: I guess so; that's what they say.
M: Sure you were.
L: .•• was very nice to me. Then from New York, I went
back to Puerto Rico and the government of Puerto Rico gave
me a scholarship to go to Spain. And I studied in Spain.
M: Where in Spain?
L: In Spain, Madrid and Sevilla. In Madrid, I studied
with the best flamenco dancers.
M: Is that when you started flamenco, in Spain?
L: Yes. And then I toured Spain; I toured South American.
LINARES (Spanish) 8
M: You did? How old were you when you started touring?
L: I was 20.
M: And studying all this time.
L: Yes. Seeing the little places.
M: Getting experience.
L: Getting experience. I don't think I was three years
but professionally what I count, when I say p rofessionally,
that I knew what I was doing even though I still learn, like
everybody, no? 'Til we die, we learn.
M: Absolutely.
L: I think when I was 20, I started in flamenco. In
ballet I used to dance with the Ballet de San Juan and in
? , when I was younger.
M: Tell me a little bit about flamenco. It tells a story;
it's very passionate.
L: Oh yes , it is. Flamenco, it has everything . I t's
life. Flamenco is life. It's what you feel in that
moment.
M: It's not just man/woman .
L: No. It's not just man and woman. It could be your
inner feelings like I feel in the allegria ••• there's more
than 80 rhythms in flamenco. Of course, here in America we
know just five or six. Everybody who does the alegria or
rhumba, soledad, that's the only thing they know here. But
there are thousands of rhythms in flamenco . There are happy
rhythms like alegria san caracoles , very femin ine rhythms;
there are very passionate rhythms.
LINARES (Spanish)
M: That's the one we see so much of here.
L: Exactly.
M: Macho man .
L: Macho man •.. yes, the woman suffering.
9
M: Giving in . But there's a lot more; that's interest ing.
A lot more to it than we see.
L: Oh yes .
M: It's an expression of inner feelings.
L: Exactly. Doing the technique, you can express. For
me , it's like, it's like a s inger- you sing a song to
somebody else but when you t~nsmit that, it's your feeling
from inside .
M: And you ' re doing that via dance.
L: For me , I can know a person by dancing. When I see
them dance, in the real, not just show pieces. When they're
dancing the huelga •.. heulga is a group of artists together
with no planning in the show , but you start playing the
guitar and the other one start s singing .•• the other one
starts dancing. And it ' s contagious and that's when you
know, it's like a naked soul , when you see a flamenco
dancer.
It's so beautiful, I don 't know. It's life; it's
really life.
M: How did you get to San Antonio? You went to Spain and
then did you come back to Puerto Rico?
L: Yes. We were touring the United States when we got
married. We went for a contract in Puerto Rico.
LINARES (Spanish) 10
M: Is your husband a dancer?
L: He's a guitarist; he's a flamenco and singer guitarist.
His family comes from all artists. They have bull fig hters,
singers, dancers, guitarists. There's no doctors, no
teachers everybody is an artist in that family.
We were touring the United States, then we went back
to Puerto Rico. I have my 4 kids there in Puerto Rico. And
then when we had the family we said, "Well, we can't be
jumping around anymore." So we settled down and we come to
San Antonio. That's where he wanted to come.
M: That's where your husband wanted to come. Is he glad
he chose San Antonio? Does he like it?
L: Oh yes. He loves it.
M: Can you make a living with dancing? You can't, can
you?
L: No. Not here in San Antonio. Very, very hard.
M: Do you have a troupe of flamenco dancers?
L: Yes. We have Companera Espana . We have the group and
it 's funded by the city of San Antonio, Commission of the
Arts.
M: Good!
L: And we apply for the National Endowment of the Arts
this year.
M: What luck?
L: We don't know yet .
M: I've been watching the symphony problem.
L: Oh yes , it's so sad. For me a city without symphony;
without a n i ce ballet.
LINARES (Spanish)
M: And we don't have opera anymore , either. Do you
perform in public a lot?
11
L: Yes. We do six major concerts a year. And then we
have a small group of concerts at the Arneson (theater) for
families.
M: That's where I've heard publicity about you, from the
Arneson.
L: We do conventions.
M: Do you get paid for that?
L: Oh yes.
M: Good. How big is your troupe?
L: Right now, we are 14 altogether.
M: Girls and boys?
L: Girls and boys.
M: Mixed. Are they all Mexican kids? Little Mexican
kids.
L: Yes ••. I think I have two Anglos. The rest are Texans
with the Mexican background. Let me tell you, these two
American girls, they are beautiful flamenco dancers.
Especially this one. We call her Gypsy. She has that
soul.
M: Is she very young?
L: She's 26.
M: That's not so young.
L: She studied Social Science and now she is studying to
be a teacher. She wants to be an elementary teacher.
M: Tell me about the food you're serving down there. In
LINARES (Spanish) 12
M: Spain, i t ' s tortilla. We say tortiya here . Tell me
about the tortilla and what's in it. I k now something about
that but I'd like it on the tape.
L: Tortilla espaniola we sell it here , like a potato
quiche. We say potato quiche. Tha t's the only way they
understand because here tortilla is the Mexican tortilla for
the lakikos(?) (Tac i tos?) • So when t hey cal l tortilla, we
say like a Spanish quiche, potato quiche. It's potatoes ,
onions and eggs. We fry that in a fry pan and we turn it
with a plate and it's a big show.
Whenever we a re doing the tortillas, we have public
there to see how we turn the tortilla.
M: My da ughter went to her junior col l ege year in Madrid.
She came back from that year "Oh , I ' ve got to show you how
to make tortillas." We said, "Well, we already have
tortillas i n San An t onio ." And so s he did this potat o ,
onion a nd egg business. And that's the first I knew about
the Spanish tortilla.
One time I was in Madrid , we were going out to her
fr i end ' s place in t he country for lunch. And she was going
to t ake something and we stopped at a del i catessan and
bought a tortilla, cold , they all eat it cold ! I said , "Oh
gosh , that should be hot."
"No"
How do people feel about i t? Do they like it?
L: Yes . They like it. Today is the first time in six
years that we have been in Folklife Festival. One lady
LINARES (Spanish) 13
L: asked me , "Can you give me just a piece of this one
that you just made hot, please? " "Of course" "I don't like
it cold." I love it cold and I love it from one day to
another.
M: So does my daughter. She doesn't make it herself
anymore because it ' s so easy to buy.
L: In Spain, yes.
M: I bought a piece this morning. It seemed to me it was
thicker and more eggy. Do you use a lot o f egg?
L: I'm using six eggs for one torti lla.
M: It's almost an omelet then.
L: Yes.
M: A puffy omelet. It's delicious, though.
L: Thank you.
M: Now we've talked about Sangria. You make that with
wine and Seven Up.
L: Or Sprite. Sugar and the fresh fruit.
M: When I make Sangria, I buy a very cheap red wine . I
don't try to get an expensive wine. Do you?
L: We use here Carlos Rossi. It's very good . I love the
vine do mesa.
M: Table wine.
L: It's the cheapest one in Spain. But it's very good .
In my house, whenever we do Sangria , we use any red
wine.
M: There are places in Mexico when you order Sangria , they
put brandy or cognac in it . You have to tell then not to
LINARES (Spanish) 14
M: add that. That spoils it; it gets strong and bitter .
L: In Spain there are places that they use brandy, also.
Usually, they don't.
M: Now you're serving the tortilla and the sangria. What
is that little pastry thing?
L: We call it in English , Turkey Turnovers.
M: What do you call it in Spanish?
L: Empanadillas .
M: You've got turkey in it?
L: Yes.
M: Is it the ground turkey you can buy?
L: Yes.
M: Do you season it?
L: Oh yes. We put some bell peppers, onions, and
tomatoes.
L: And then you put it in the pastry and f ry it.
M: It's fried? Not baked.
L: It's fried.
M: I noticed while I was waiting for you , the gi r l was
doing shrimp. You call that gambas. We say camerones in
Mexican. I can tell you where there are the best gambas al
ajillo in Oaxaca! A Spanish restaurant down the re.
She had the raw shrimp and she had them in a very
small amount of fat. And cooking them very slowly. What
kind of fat was in the pan?
L: It's supposed to be olive oil.
M: The Spanish always cook with olive oil.
LINARES (Spanish)
L: Yes. That's the best .
(d iscussion of olive oil)
M: Then she had the shrimp on a little stick.
L: A piece of bread with garlic sauce.
M: The garlic is on the bread.
L : Yes.
15
M: What are you supposed to do then, eat the bread and the
shrimp together?
L: A piece of bread and a piece of shrimp.
M: That's what you're selling now in the Spanish booth?
L: Yes, and the paella.
M: Have you got paella, too?
L: Yes.
M: What are you putting in yours?
L : We found the shrimps, clams, squids, those three
things. And then of course sweet peas,, red pepper, garlic ,
onion.
M: Do you put bacon in yours or sausage?
L : No. This is Paella Marinara. So it's only sea food.
M: We were talking about the paella. I have a wonderful
paella dish from Spain.
L: I brought some paella dishes from Spain a few years
ago, the large one , the medium, the small one .
M: The brown pottery. It's so peasanty and pretty .
L: And it tastes completely different. For me it tastes
completely different when you do in .•• like here I'm doing
it in a pan because it's easier and faster.
LINARES (Spanish) 16
M: I have a friend who puts artichokes in hers . She cuts
them up, the he arts .
L: They have different paellas; the Paella Marinara, the
Paella Viscayana , ...
M: Is it popular?
L: Very.
M: Is it?
L: Yes. We sel l a lot. Like yesterday I did four pael l as
of eight cups of rice each and today we have already four.
M: I noticed you have a pan of yellow rice. Th at 's
not really saffron is it?
L: No. It comes from saffron but it has more col or ing .
M: You can get fake saffron in Mexico . I have bought i t ;
i t's a little bitter ; it 's O.K . It's not from the crocus
flower.
L: It's very e xpensive, when you buy it .
M: Chiqui , is there anything else you want on this tape
about Spain? Do you have a group of Spanish people that
meet together and have meetings? He re in San Antonio?
L: Oh yes. There's Casa de Espana and we have a lot of
cultural events .
M: And they stick together .
L: And they stick together ; they help each other very
much.
M: How do you Spanish people get along with the Mexicans?
L: Beautiful.
M: Do you?
LINARES (Spanish) 17
L: Oh yes. For us, it 's beautiful. I feel sometimes some
rejection from them but it's until we know each other. I
have failed more in our art, in the dancing, than in the
social. In the dancing, it has been very difficult to
maintain our dance company. Because, well, we're living in
a part of Mexico. San Antonio is Mexico; it's really Mexico
with the American flag. That's the way I see it. So it has
been very difficult because people know folk art, people
know that kind of art and flamenco. It's completely
different.
For flamenco you have to have different feelings for
life to understand flamenco.
M: The reason I ask that question , my daughter went to
college a year in Me xico City and she made friends at that
time with a Spanish refugee family in Mexico City . They
felt very put upon; they were called wolves, lobos.
L: They call the Spanish lobos and they call them
chapuline.
M: It was a nice family. They were not poor people but
the Mexican didn't like them because they still had the
feeling aga i nst Spain. So I wondered if it translated up
here in the United States. But it apparently doesn't.
L: No. Not very much. When I have been in Mexico, yes, I
feel it that way. I have some friends in Mexico, whenever I
go to Monterrey , this family knows my husband is from Madrid
and they always have to say something bad.
M: Really?
LINARES (Spanish) 18
L: Yes. "Look the way we are because the Spaniards came
and abused all of us." And I say, "Look what they left."
It•s like in Spain, they will be talking about the Moros.
They left a lot of things to Spain, those Moros.
M: Sure they did.
L: And Spain is rich because of all the mix of cultures
they have. I think that•s the most beautiful thing.
M: So far back. (the Moors)
L: Yes.
M: When I was in Spain at Christmas time, we went to
Segovia. There are still remnants of the Moors there. The
Moorish presence is s till felt there.
L: That •s what I think of Spain •.• you can have
everything. You can have ever ything .•• all Europe you can
see in Spain.
M: The only thing about Madrid is they are just •.. Franco
I
held them back so long they •re just corning in to the
Common Market; getting things they•ve never had before.
L: Exactly. At the same time, you have to put things in a
balance because Franco held them but I remember the first
time I went to Spain, very young , I was by myself and I
wasn•t afraid of being at 3 o 1 clock in the morning or 3
o 1 clock in the afternoon . And now I go to Spain and at 3
o •clock in the afternoon you have to be sneaking
shrinking.( ?)
M: Same thing in Mexico thirty years ago .
Since you•ve lived here, have you met Jos~
Vives-Atsara?
LINARES (Spanish)
L: Oh yes.
M: Isn't he wonderful?
L: A beautiful artist.
19
M: I have him on tape. And he told about his childhood
and he told about Franco and how he was determined to get to
the United States. And how long and how hard it was. He
went by steps. He finally got enought money to get to New
York. Then from there to South America to a cousin. Then
he had to get to Mexico. And the the final ••• some person
1n San Antonio helped him to get here. He is such a
wonderful man.
L: He is such a great artist and a beautiful man.
M: I am so grateful to you for coming and talking with
me.
END OF TAPE I, SIDE 2, 30 MINUTES.