THE INSTITUTE OF TEXAN CULTURES
Oral History Office
SUBJECT: Movie Theaters
INTERVIEW WITH: Ruthanne Martin (Tape 1 of 2)
DATE: 28 April 2001
PLACE: Belton, Texas
INTERVIEWER: Martha Chandler
TAPE 1, SIDE 1
C: ...in Belton, Texas. Today is April 28, 1901 – oh, 1901: 2001 – and we’re speaking about the San Antonio movie theater project. And today - it’s about 2:15 right now, when we’re talking. And there’s going to be two tapes for this interview. First of all, Mrs. Martin I want to ask you a couple of questions, just to kind of get us going here. Tell me where you were born, and when you were born, and where you were raised. Where you grew up.
M: I was born in San Antonio, Texas, October 7, 1923.
C: Okay. Did you grow up in San Antonio?
M: Yes.
C: Did you ever live anywhere else while you were a kid?
M: Oh, yes - with my grandparents a couple of years.
C: How old were you then?
M: I was about three or four.
C: Okay. Do you remember why you lived out there with them for a couple of years?
M: Well, yes, my father was with the railroad - Texan & Ruthanne Martin 2
Pacific Railroad for awhile.
C: Is that what it was called – the Texan and Pacific Railroad? Were your parents living out there, too, when you were living out there?
M: Yes.
C: Oh, okay, so you all as a family were living out there.
M: Yes.
C: In West Texas?
M: Big Springs.
C: Big Springs. Oh, okay, yeah. All right. So that was when you were about three or four years old. But other than that, did you live in San Antonio?
M: Yes.
C: Okay.
M: We moved back to...[inaudible], and I was raised ...[inaudible].
C: Okay. Well, when you were growing up, since you said you were born in 1923, do you remember anything about the movie theaters? From your childhood.
M: Yes.
C: Did you go to the theaters and go to the movies?
M: Yes, because my parents liked the movies.
C: Oh, okay. Did you call them the movies? Or what did you all call it?
M: Well, as far as I know it was the movies.Ruthanne Martin 3
C: Yeah, okay. So your parents liked to go to the movies too.
M: Uh-huh.
C: Okay. Do you remember the first movie you went to see?
M: Yes.
C: Well, tell me about that.
M: It was called Trader Horn.
C: Trader Horn. Okay.
M: And it was held at the old Majestic, which has been re-named State when they built the new Majestic.
C: Oh, okay.
M: And I was...[inaudible] all the outside was decorated with trees and the...[inaudible]and faces of large animals like elephants and tigers. I was scared to death to go inside but...
C: What year was that?
M: Let’s see - 1928 or ’29.
C: So how old were you then?
M: About five or six.
C: Okay. So you’re saying the front of the theater was all decorated with trees and faces of big animals and stuff. Where did the movie take place?
M: The movie was made in Africa.
C: Okay. So that’s why the jungle animals and...
M: Yes. I remember – I guess I heard my parents talk Ruthanne Martin 4
about it – I think Pearl White was the star. And while they were out there filming, some of the grips or workers or somebody got a disease and they died from it.
C: Oh. So they actually did film it in Africa?
M: Yes.
C: So what was...do you remember what the movie was about at all?
M: No.
C: No. You just remember you were afraid of the...
M: I was scared. I probably held my hand over my eyes.
C: So, what you’re saying is that the Majestic Theater, before they built the New Majestic, or...was at this...it had moved...the Majestic had moved and the theater...the name of the theater that this movie was actually in was called The State Theater? And where was that? What street was it on?
M: That was on Main Avenue.
C: On Main Avenue in San Antonio.
M: Right behind, oh,...
C: No? Well, how about –
M: The one that’s behind North Star Mall.
C: Oh? Stowers?
M: Stowers.
C: Stowers. Okay, so Stowers used to be downtown?
M: On Main and Houston.Ruthanne Martin 5
C: Okay. All right. Now, so they had re...they had built a new Majestic Theater. Where was the new Majestic Theater located?
M: The new Majestic Theater was located on Houston Street.
C: And...
M: Opposite Frost’s.
C: Okay. What year was...as far as you know, what year was that - quote/unquote – “new” Majestic Theater built?
M: I think it was around 1928.
C: Okay.
M: And also at the same time the Aztec was built, and it was quite a nice theater too.
C: Okay. So you think they were built about the same time?
M: Uh-huh. And I don’t remember what I saw at the Majestic, but I remember they had a premier of Wings, with Gary Cooper and Richard Arlen, at the opening of the Aztec.
C: At the Aztec? Oh, okay.
M: Because Wings had been made at Randolph Field.
C: So was it a pretty fancy? Was it like a movie premier?
M: Yes.
C: Was Gary Cooper there?
M: ...[inaudible].
C: Or did you go to the premier?
M: No. Ruthanne Martin 6
C: How do you know about this?
M: Well, I guess through the paper.
C: Yeah.
M: Because they had pictures of...I remember seeing pictures – I don’t know where - but I remember seeing
M: pictures of these stars getting out of cars, all dressed up.
C: Okay. Well, that’s pretty...[inaudible]. Did you go to the Majestic and the Aztec Theaters much?
M: Yes.
C: When you were growing up?
M: What’s that?
C: Tell me about the Majestic Theater. What do you remember about the Majestic Theater?
M: ...[inaudible].
C: Outside of the inside or – what did it look like?
M: Well, it was very...it was very beautiful. It had, well, when you went in to the theater, it had the top – it was three-story’s high, had the top full of stars that twinkled and it had all kinds of decorations.
C: Was there a decorating theme or motif? What style of architecture - do you remember what that was like?
M: I...no, I know they had plants and things around, and in front of the...in front of the stage they had a orchestra pit and a organ.Ruthanne Martin 7
C: Oh? So, can you remember about what year your first trip to the Majestic was, do you think?
M: No.
C: No? How about the seats. Were they upholstered?
M: Yes, they were upholstered and they were further apart than they are today. It’s been re-decorated. And the seats M: are...[inaudible] very close, but they weren’t at that time. There was quite a bit of space between the seats and you could get in and out easily.
C: Did...so the Majestic Theater, did it have a balcony?
M: Yes, it had a balcony that had about five tiers. And the second balcony that was for the colored people.
C: Okay. So the main floor and the first balcony was for everybody but...
M: Uh-huh.
C: Colored people? What about Hispanics? Did Hispanics go to the Majestic? Do you remember seeing...?
M: No, no. I don’t remember.
C: Don’t remember that. You said that the way the Majestic looks now...have you been...have you gone to the Majestic Theater other than...you said you grew up, lived in San Antonio, have you gone to the Majestic, been in the Majestic Theater over the years?
M: Yes, I have.
C: So you’ve been in it recently too, within the last few Ruthanne Martin 8
years.
M: Yes.
C: Oh, okay. So you’ve seen what...[inaudible].
M: We’ve see stage plays and...[inaudible]. I think the one that we saw was the Fiddler on the Roof and we went to a Stage play that Mickey Rooney was in? And...
C: What you’re saying “we”, do you mean back in the early
C: days, or recently?
M: Recently.
C: Oh, okay. All right.
M: Well, when I was a child in my early teens, a whole group of us would go and see stage programs with people like Paul Whiteman’s Orchestra.
C: Oh. Wow. Do you remember about what year that would have been?
M: Oh, it would have been in the ‘30s.
C: Oh.
M: And...[inaudible].
C: These were live performances?
M: Yes.
C: And people just sat in the audience and watched?
M: Uh-huh.
C: Now you said you went...we would go...who were these groups – was this groups of your friends or parents or what?
M: Groups of friends. Ruthanne Martin 9
C: About how old were you when you were...? M: Oh, well, I was in high school.
C: Okay. Can you tell me a little bit about the kind of movies – the movies that you remember? You said that you went to the movies while you were growing up and you went with friends. From the earliest time that you remember...I guess what I’m trying to ask you is what were the movies like, maybe in the ‘30s?
M: Well, they were...well, some of them were historical, taken from books. Some of them were love stories and romance. And some of them were war pictures.
C: Was it a popular thing?
M: Yes.
C: To go to the movies. How much did it cost to go to the movies? Say in 1935.
M: In 1935 I think I could get in for about a dime.
C: Of course you were about twelve years old then?
M: Yeah.
C: You could get in for a dime. Did you go with friends? Did you all go?
M: Yeah.
C: 1935 was in the depression, right? Was that expensive? Was it hard to get the money together to go to the movies?
M: Well, yes. Uh-huh.
C: How often did you go?Ruthanne Martin 10
M: Oh, several times a month.
C: Okay, so even though times were hard it wasn’t uncommon to be able to get together and go to the movies.
M: Yeah.
C: So it was popular. What else besides full-length feature films? You were talking about live entertainment – some of these big bands – was that more from the ‘40s or is that from the ‘30s also?
M: Well, it was more from the ‘40s.
C: Okay. What about in the ‘30s. Besides feature films, what other kinds of entertainment did you see?
M: Well, they had newsreels and usually a comedy of some kind, a short subject...
C: Oh, like a cartoon or something?
M: Short subjects like Laurel and Hardy.
C: Oh.
M: And I can’t think of the movies right now.
C: Okay. Were there...how about serials? Do you remember seeing any, like, serials where you would see an episode one and then episode two and stuff like that?
M: Well, we lived in the southern part of town, and there was a neighborhood theater.
C: What was the name of that theater?
M: The Harlandale.
C: Okay. And what was the name of the neighborhood?Ruthanne Martin 11
M: Harlandale.
C: Okay. Well, that makes sense. So how much did it cost to go to that theater?
M: Usually you got in for a nickel. We’d go on Saturday and see a B-rated movie, was a Western movie.
C: Oh, a Western.
M: And usually they had a serial.
C: Who was in those serials? Do you remember what...?
M: Yes. There was Buster Crabbe; there was Tarzan and Roy Rogers; and there was...[inaudible].
C: What was the neighborhood theater like, compared to what the downtown, like the Majestic, was like?
M: Oh, it was very small.
C: Do you remember how many seats?
M: Very small. I imagine it would seat a hundred or a hundred and fifty.
C: Oh, okay. Did you go with friends?
M: Yes.
C: Or your parents?
M: Yes, it was usually full of children on Saturdays.
C: How did you get to the theater from your house?
M: I walked.
C: And was that common transportation?
M: Yes.
C: ...[coughing].Ruthanne Martin 12
M: Yes.
C: How about if you went to, say, the Majestic or the Aztec or something? What kind of transportation?
M: Well, you could ride the bus to town or your parents might take you in a car.
C: Okay. What kind of movies were the most popular during the ‘30s - do you remember? Or at least with you and your friends? What movie stars were popular in the 1930s?
M: Oh, Clark Gable, Joan Crawford, Spencer Tracey, Katherine Hepburn.
C: Did you all like those? Did you like those?
M: Yes.
C: And your friends?
M: Uh-huh.
C: How important was it to you all to see these movies stars in all these movies?
M: Well, it was a very good way to pass away the time.
C: Compared to other kinds of entertainment that you might have had as a kid, what else did you all do for entertainment besides the movies?
M: Oh, we’d gather at each other’s house and sing and play games.
C: Do you think the movies had much of an influence on you and your friends, when you were young teenagers and going to see the movies with Clark Gable and Spencer Tracey and Joan Ruthanne Martin 13
Crawford?
M: Yes.
C: What kind of influence do you think they might have had on you?
M: ...[inaudible] nice clean story of some kind.
C: What do you mean by that – nice, clean story of some kind?
M: ...[inaudible] not so much weirdness or sexual intent or...
C: How about violence? Was there much violence?
M: Violence. Not too much. There were a few, like, oh, Lon Chaney – Lon Chaney’s films and...
C: Oh, Lon Chaney. You mean like maybe...when I think of Lon Chaney I think of the Wolfman or something like that, where they...those kind of – I call them monster movies, I don’t know, did you all call them – what did you all? Because...didn’t Boris Korloff...was making... Who made the Dracula?
M: Dracula was Boris Korloff, I think. I don’t know, I didn’t go see that.
C: Oh, so you didn’t go see those too much?
M: ...[inaudible].
C: Okay. How about your friends? Did they like them, though. Were they popular?
M: Oh, yeah. Ruthanne Martin 14
C: You were just...
M: I was just chicken. ...[inaudible]
C: Oh, you’d rather see...did you like the romances?
M: Oh, yes.
C: Did you and your girlfriends ever think you might grow up to marry a movie star?
M: No.
C: No? Did you want to live the way the movie stars lived?
M: Oh, naturally.
C: Was it common...did these newsreels and things that you were talking about that also showed at the times of the movies, did they show things about the lives of the movie
C: stars? In other words...
M: Well, very little. They were usually...well, like our newscasts on TV now. You know, they, like maybe a popular star was going to France, and they’d have a ship and
...[inaudible].
C: The party and waving.
M: Yeah.
C: Did it portray the life of the movie stars as glamorous?
M: Oh, very.
C: Well, what about like Hollywood? Was Hollywood a big deal? Like by the ‘30s was...? Were they making a lot of Ruthanne Martin 15
movies in Hollywood by then?
M: Oh, yes.
C: What about the motion picture studios in Hollywood?
M: Well, there were several – like Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer, Warner Brothers.
C: Oh, okay. What about gangster movies in the ‘30s? Were those...were a lot of those made?
M: Yes. There were a lot of gangster movies. Humphrey Bogart was in several gangster movies.
C: Anybody else you can remember?
M: Oh, Jimmy Stewart and...
C: Was Jimmy Stewart in gangster movies?
M: James Cagney.
C: Oh, okay. Did you go see the gangster movies?
M: No. And Edward G. Robinson.
C: Oh. Did you parents like to go see the gangster movies ...[inaudible]?
M: Oh, yes, if I...[inaudible].
C: But they weren’t your favorite?
M: No.
C: Comedies? Love Stories? Westerns? What was your favorite kinds of movies?
M: I enjoyed...
C: As a kid you know.
M: Uh-huh. I enjoyed the Tarzan movies and...Ruthanne Martin 16
C: Tell me about movies during World War II. How old were you during World War II?
M: I was grown.
C: When did you graduate from high school?
M: In 1941.
C: Had the movies...did the movies change when World War II started and America was involved in the war? Did the movies change?
M: Yes. They were more serious...
C: Who were some of the stars of the war movies?
M: John Wayne and...
C: Were the movies that were made during the war more about the war itself? In other words they were more like that?
M: Yes.
C: Were there other kinds of movies, though, that were made during the war that were also popular?
M: Yes. ...[inaudible]
C: Can you think of any, like, female movie stars that were in movies, like, during World War II?
M: Betty Grable.
C: Oh, was she the pin-up girl?
M: Yes. And Joan Blondell and...
C: Were the movies that were made about the war, were they supportive of the war effort? Were they pro-United States Ruthanne Martin 17
position in the war – were there any that weren’t?
M: ...[inaudible].
C: Do you remember any that were critical of the United States’ position in the war?
M: Of course, the...[inaudible] the enemy but they always ended up...[inaudible].
C: The good of what?
M: The good of the United States.
C: Oh, I see. Okay. So were there other – the shorts that accompanied, you know, the little short films or whatever – the newsreels that accompanied the films during World War II, were they...did they promote the war effort?
M: Well, not...[inaudible] time of Disney and most of the shows they were just cartoons.
C: Okay. So you’re saying that after the time of Disney ...when was Disney? When did Disney start? Do you remember C: Disney from the ‘30s?
M: ...[inaudible].
C: Who would be a typical star of the Disney cartoon or a Disney short?
M: Mickey Mouse.
C: Mickey Mouse. ...popular.
M: Donald – Donald Duck.
C: Popular with adults also.
M: Yes.Ruthanne Martin 18
C: So, actually, you’re saying after, you know, World War II or during World War II the movies changed. Do you remember how much, by then, it was costing to go to the movies?
M: Yes. I think it was oh, maybe grownups fifty... seventy-five cents.
C: Okay. Was the neighborhood theater – the Harlandale Theater – was that still in business?
M: Uh-huh. Yes. I think the neighborhood theaters were in business until, oh, after the war, and the outdoor theaters for families were getting...[inaudible].
C: Oh, like drive-in theaters?
M: Uh-huh. Drive-in theaters.
C: Oh, okay. So those started up.
M: Uh-huh.
C: Drive-in theaters. About...were there any drive-in theaters in the ‘30s that you remember?
M: No.
C: So they were, like, after the war or something? After World War II? Was there still considerable live entertain – some live entertainment at – in the theaters themselves? Like the Majestic of the Aztec – used for live entertainment venues, as well as movies?
M: Yes. ...[long pause] Andrew Sisters.
C: Oh. Well, they were still doing like musical acts and Ruthanne Martin 19
things like that?
M: Andrew Sisters...[inaudible].
C: Okay. I’m going to stop this tape and I’m going to put another tape in.
END OF TAPE 1, SIDE 1.
TAPE 1, SIDE 2.
C: Okay. There was still continuing to be live entertainment, mostly musicals? That was coming to the theaters.
M: ...[inaudible]
C: Did they use the theater buildings themselves for any other activities besides movies or live entertainment?
M: ...[inaudible]
C: Did they ever hold any - like raffles or church meetings or municipal meetings of any kind that you can remember? Or union meetings or anything like that? No. Mostly entertainment.
M: Uh-huh.
C: You were saying that you remember the Majestic and the Aztec? What was the inside of the Aztec like?
M: Well, it had mostly Indians...[inaudible]. It was a big round, like a...it looked like it might have been a altar of some kind...[inaudible] lobby of the theater and ...[inaudible].
C: Any other decorations there?Ruthanne Martin 20
M: Yes, it was kind of a...
C: You say Indian – do you mean like North American Indian or...?
M: Yes, uh-huh.
C: Like the Sioux and the Apache, or the Mezo-American Indian or like Mayans and Aztecs? ...[inaudible]
M: ...[inaudible].
C: Well, it was named the Aztec.
M: Aztec, yes. Mayans, Aztecs.
C: What about...you said it had a big altar, like a sacrificial altar or something?
M: Uh-huh.
C: Wow. How big was it?
M: It was, oh, maybe like ten feel tall.
C: Oh. Were there any other decorations in there that were really outstanding? In the Aztec.
M: No. They had a beautiful...[inaudible].
C: Oh. Okay.
M: And...
C: Was it open about the same time as the Majestic? I mean, you were going to see movies at the Majestic and the Aztec?
M: Yes.
C: Any other theaters in San Antonio that was fancy like those? Ruthanne Martin 21
M: Well, I would say they was fancy...[inaudible]. There was a nice theater between South Alamo Street and ...[inaudible]. There was a – it was between ...[inaudible]. Right in the middle...[inaudible].
C: Do you remember the name of that theater?
M: It was the Palace.
C: The Palace Theater, okay.
M: The Texas Theater - that was the...a block south of the Majestic, and it was a pretty theater in those days. I don’t know how many seats it had but it was large and it had a nice balcony.
C: Was it as large as the Majestic and the Aztec?
M: It was as large as the Aztec.
C: Was it on...what street was it on?
M: Houston Street.
C: Houston Street. And do you know what year it was built?
M: No. I think it was built along about the same time.
C: ...[inaudible].
M: Uh-huh.
C: Had there been a theater by another name in that location, prior to the Texas being there? How about the Aztec? Had there been a theater by another name? Or the Majestic?
M: I don’t think so.Ruthanne Martin 22
C: You’re shaking your head no. Just for the tape. But...so in other words, the Majestic, before it opened on Houston Street, and it’s real fancy, real big, it had been in some other location called the Majestic. But then when they re-opened it on to Houston Street that was the first time a theater had ever been in that location? Where the new Majestic was.
M: Uh-huh.
C: Oh, okay. Well, you remember some other movies – movie houses from the 1920s. Can you remember the names of any of those?
M: Yes. There on the corner of South Alamo and Blum Street, I believe, across the street from the Menger Hotel in the building that was then Joske’s. In the corner there was a small theater.
C: And that was called?
M: That was called the Plaza.
C: The Plaza. On Alamo Plaza.
M: Uh-huh.
C: And that was there in the ‘20s?
M: Uh, I don’t know.
C: Was it there in the ‘30s?
M: Uh-huh.
C: Do you know how long it was open?
M: No, I don’t remember. And also another theater – the Ruthanne Martin 23
Empire Theater was opened. It was small, too.
C: Do you remember...did you go see movies at the Empire Theater?
M: Yes.
C: Do you remember what the décor was like in that?
M: No.
C: No. But it wasn’t as big, huh? What kind of movies showed at the Empire?
M: Second run.
C: Second run? Not first run?
M: But it is connected to the back of the Majestic.
C: So the Empire Theater is actually on what street?
M: It’s on St. Mary’s.
C: Oh, it was. On St. Mary’s?
M: Uh-huh.
C: What about other suburban theaters? You talked about, like neighborhood theater – like the Harlandale. Were there any other suburban theaters in San Antonio in the ‘20s? Or the ‘30s, especially,– that you remember?
M: Yes, the Highland Park Theater.
C: You went to movies there?
M: Uh-huh.
C: What about north of downtown San Antonio? Were there any theaters there?
M: Yes, there was... Ruthanne Martin 24
C: Uh...
M: The Uptown Theater.
C: Where was that?
M: That was on Fredericksburg Road, north of San Antonio.
C: Uh, how about the... Okay, so basically in the ‘30s we’ve got those covered. Okay. I wanted to ask you a couple of more things about the theaters from, like, the‘30s, during the depression, because that was a bad time for people.
M: Uh-huh.
C: Did they ever have any drawings or raffles or other enticements...
M: Yes.
C: At the movies to try to get people into the theater?
M: Uh-huh.
C: Do you remember any of those?
M: Yes. The prizes, some of them were bags of groceries, some were money.
C: Oh, how much money?
M: Well, not too much. Twenty-five, fifty.
C: Well, that was actually a lot. That would mean a lot to somebody.
M: Uh-huh.
C: ...[inaudible].
M: A hundred dollars, I think, was about the largest.Ruthanne Martin 25
C: Okay. Did they ever give away stuff like glassware, or dishes, or furniture, or musical instruments, or anything like that?
M: No, I can’t remember.
C: Can’t remember those. Okay. What theater do you think you went to the most? As a kid in the ‘30s.
M: Probably the Harlandale.
C: The Harlandale. What about...were you more likely to go with your parents maybe to the Majestic or something like that?
M: Yes.
C: Oh. In the ‘40s, you said you were grown because you graduated from high school in ’41. Did you go on dates to the theaters?
M: Uh-huh.
C: During like World War II, was that a common activity?
M: Yes.
C: For young adults? I guess, go to the theaters, were they still popular?
M: Uh-huh.
C: And people actually had money to go to the theaters in spite of the war. Did you go after...if you’d go on a date to the movies, would you go anywhere after the movies? Was it typical to go out to eat or something like that?
M: Well, you might go to the drive-in and get a coke or a Ruthanne Martin 26
malted milk.
C: And you don’t mean drive-in theater, you just mean like drive-in snack...
M: Snack bar.
C: That type of thing. Yeah. Okay. What movie star do you remember drew the most fans? Who was the popular movie star?
M: Well, Shirley Temple.
C: When you were a kid?
M: Uh-huh.
C: How about, maybe, in the ‘40s? Who was...
M: Um, in the ‘40s...
C: Did...when was Clark Gable’s heyday, for example?
M: In the ‘30s and ‘40s.
C: Yeah. Was he real popular?
M: Yes, he was.
C: As a romantic lead type or something – Gary Cooper and all those guys.
M: Tyrone Power and...
C: Uh-huh.
M: Robert Taylor.
C: And so you all did hook into these...
M: Yes.
C: Big movie stars? Did you buy movie magazines?
M: Oh, yes.Ruthanne Martin 27
C: Photoplays and stuff? And read about the lives of the stars?
M: Yes.
C: Did your parents think that was an okay way to spend your money?
M: Well, Momma didn’t seem to object.
C: Okay. So they didn’t care too much if you were dreaming about movie stars.
M: Uh-huh.
C: But you told me that you didn’t think – you and your friends – you didn’t think you and your friends thought you’d grow up to marry movie stars, so... Interesting.
M: We thought the movies were another world.
C: Oh, okay. So you didn’t think that your world was like the world of the movie stars? Or you didn’t think it would be? So when you viewed the movies: the movies that were about whatever topic, a comedy or a romantic comedy or a war movie or something – well, maybe not the war movies – let’s talk about the ‘30s when you were like a teenager. You didn’t think that life would be like the life that you saw portrayed in the movies? Did you think life would be like you saw portrayed in the movies?
M: Oh, yes. Yes.
C: Okay. So, I guess what I’m getting to without asking too many leading questions is an idealized version of...you Ruthanne Martin 28
know, you see a movie and it...you know, very glamorous or C: something, and you think your life is going to be the same way?
M: You hope.
C: Um. You hope. So you think that was an unrealistic expectation?
M: Well, I might have if I’d thought about it but...
C: But it was still fun. You told me about your first memory of going to the movies. Do you remember any episodes of racial discrimination at the theaters? You told me that the...like at the...I think you said the Majestic – top balcony – you know, the highest back balcony...
M: Uh-huh. Uh-huh.
C: Was for the colored people – the black people. Did the ...did they have the same kind of thing at the Aztec? Was there a balcony? No? At the Aztec the black people just sat in with the regular crowd?
M: ...[inaudible].
C: Do you remember black people sitting in the audience?
M: ...[inaudible].
C: Do you remember Hispanic people sitting in the audience just as usual? You know, just as another regular movie-goer?
M: No. I don’t remember that.
C: Did you think that the black people or the Hispanic Ruthanne Martin 29
people, Latino people, in San Antonio might have their own theaters?
M: No, no, I didn’t think about the black people having a theater. I did think that the Spanish people had their own theaters.
C: Well, you knew that...you knew there were theaters in San Antonio...
M: Uh-huh.
C: Did you know the names of any of those theaters?
M: The Alameda.
C: Uh-huh. Any others?
M: ...[pause].
C: Did you ever go to a movie in any of those theaters? What kind...do you know what kind of movies might have showed at those theaters? In other words, were they strictly Spanish speaking or did they run the regular movies in English from Hollywood?
M: There might have been...
C: Did you have any friends that might have gone to those theaters?
M: Yes. I remember Cantinflas.
C: Oh. Cantinflas, yes.
M: He was the...very popular.
C: ...[inaudible]. Yes. Very popular Mexican movie star. So was he Mexican?Ruthanne Martin 30
M: ...[inaudible].
C: I think he was Mexican, as opposed to being like from Spain or something like that.
M: And we had some Mexican movie stars that were quite popular, like Dolores del Rio.
C: How did you know about her if you didn’t go to those?
M: Well, she was in the regular movies.
C: Also?
M: Uh-huh.
C: So, as far as you knew she would be in like the English movies and she would be in English language movies and also in the Spanish language movies?
M: Uh-huh.
C: So she was really popular.
M: Uh-huh. And Lupe Valez.
C: Who?
M: L-u-p-e Lupe...
C: Lupe – uh-huh.
M: Valez.
C: V-e-l-e-z ?
M: V-a-l-e-z.
C: Okay. So they were popular?
M: Uh-huh.
C: Did they speak English when they were in the English speaking movies?Ruthanne Martin 31
M: Yes. Uh-huh.
C: So, okay. So they were bilingual and just appeared... I’m assuming they spoke Spanish in the Spanish movies. Do you ever remember...did they show like a Dolores del Rio
C: movie...did they show those kinds of movies at the Majestic and at the Aztec and stuff?
M: Uh-huh.
C: Because they were big draws.
M: Uh-huh.
C: At the time that they would show the...those movie stars – like those movies at the Majestic or the Aztec or the Texas or wherever – would the Hispanic people come see the movies there too? Or would they wait for them to show at their...?
M: I don’t know.
C: Don’t know. Okay.
M: And also there was Rudolph Valentino.
C: Oh.
M: ...he was in the ‘20s.
C: Yeah.
M: ...[inaudible] he died early.
C: Do you remember seeing his movies in the ‘20s or do you remember...
M: No. I saw him on TV.
C: I know there’s a Johnny Weissmuller story. Do you want Ruthanne Martin 32
to tell me about that?
M: Story?
C: Well, about Johnny Weissmuller and the Tarzan movies and when he came through San Antonio. I guess you and your friends got permission...
M: Yes, well, we got to see him. My mother had a cousin who was a grip for MGM.
C: In Hollywood?
M: Uh-huh. In Hollywood.
C: Oh, what was his name?
M: His name was Hank Forster.
C: And I was assuming it was a him. Okay. And so he worked for MGM. That’s neat.
M: Uh-huh. And...
C: And what years did he work for MGM? Do you know?
M: I don’t know.
C: In the ‘30s?
M: In...[inaudible].
C: In the ‘20s?
M: They went out there in the ‘20s, and I think he worked for them all his life.
C: Oh, okay.
M: And I think that he and my mother grew quite close as cousins. So he knew they were going to Florida to make a Tarzan picture.Ruthanne Martin 33
C: Okay, the studio that Hank Forster worked for was going to Florida, okay.
M: Uh-huh. MGM.
C: Okay.
M: And so he phoned or wrote mother, and he said we’d be at the...we’d come by train, by the Southern Pacific
M: Railroad, at such-and-such a date, and we’ll be there for an hour or so to...[inaudible] come by, I haven’t seen you, I’d like to see you.
C: Okay.
M: And so the whole family went. And...
C: Did you all get a...[inaudible].
M: No. I can’t remember.
C: Okay. How old were you?
M: I was about, oh, maybe ten.
C: Oh, okay.
M: And...
C: Early ‘30s.
M: And, of course, mother hadn’t seen her cousin in a long time, but they started getting off the train.
C: They were traveling by train?
M: Uh-huh. And he saw...he saw Mother and Daddy first...
C: Now who is he?
M: Henry.
C: Hank Forster. Okay.Ruthanne Martin 34
M: Saw them first and he went up and grabbed Mother and kissed her, shook hands with Daddy, and about that time Johnny Weismuller got off the train and he looked at Henry and said, “Good work, Hank”.
C: So he was kissing your mother at that time?
M: Yeah.
C: So, oh, well. So you got to actually see Tarzan.
M: Tarzan.
C: What did he look like?
M: Well, he was...he looked like an ordinary man.
C: What was he wearing?
M: Well, he was wearing clothes.
C: Well, yeah, but I mean like a suit or...?
M: I don’t remember whether he was wearing a suit. I guess he was. Mother, they got to talking, Mother said, “Well, what do you all do? And he said, “Well, we’ve been playing – playing poker.
C: Okay. I’m going to stop the tape for a minute. Okay, I’m going to start the tape up again. We were talking about Johnny Weismuller and the movie crew coming through town on the train. Let me see if there’s any other – oh, I know. All right, I’ll turn this off. Okay, where were we? We’re talking about theaters in the ‘30s and ‘40s. What did you wear to the show? What did you wear to theater ...[inaudible] and go, like, to the neighborhood theaters? Ruthanne Martin 35
The Harlandale. Did you just wear...?
M: ...[inaudible].
C: What about...did you ever dress up to go downtown to the theaters?
M: Yes. ...[inaudible] Sunday-go-to-meeting dress and heels and hats and gloves and...
C: And how old were you?
M: About eighteen.
C: Okay. So you really dressed up. Well, that’s neat. And how much would it be to get into the show?
M: Fifty, seventy-five cents.
C: All right. You said something about that the drive-in started up after that, after World War II. Did you go to the drive-in movies much?
M: Yes.
C: Did you go with friends or was it just family?
M: Yes. I went with the family, friends.
C: What kind of movies showed at the drive-in in the ‘40s?
M: Oh, ...[inaudible].
C: Did the drive-ins continue on into the ‘50s, too? Did people keep going to the drive-ins?
M: I can’t remember...[inaudible].
C: Do you remember – you were talking about balconies for colored people in the Majestic – did all the theaters have a segregated area?Ruthanne Martin 36
M: Uh-huh.
C: Were there segregated restrooms in the theaters? You don’t remember – like a black restroom, or anything like that?
M: No.
C: Uh...
M: They did have...they had nurseries to take care of the babies.
C: At the theaters?
M: ...[inaudible].
C: Boy, that’s fancy. When did that start?
M: Well, I think it started...[inaudible].
C: Did it cost extra to leave the child in there to be taken care of?
M: I imagine so.
C: But you don’t think it lasted very long?
M: No, it didn’t.
C: Good idea, though.
M: Yes.
C: ...[inaudible]. Uh, did you ever notice that local, or world, politics ever showed up in the movies? Do you remember any movies that were specifically kind of directed at, like, at world politics or made any social commentaries?
M: ...[inaudible].
C: Do you remember what that might have been like?Ruthanne Martin 37
M: ...[inaudible].
C: Okay. So comments like – here’s where we are in the war now – and things like that?
M: ...[inaudible].
C: Yeah. Well, that’s a good way to announce ...[inaudible]...such-and-such...[inaudible]. What about smoking in the theaters? Could people smoke in the theaters?
M: Not in the theaters. In the lobby. They could smoke in the lobby.
C: People could smoke in the lobby? But not while you sit watching the show.
M: ...[inaudible].
C: Did the theaters have refreshments or snack bars – do you remember?
M: Yes. Candy and popcorn...[inaudible].
C: Did you ever...did you ever buy refreshments or snacks when you went to the theater?
M: Uh-huh.
C: What did you like to get?
M: Candy.
C: And so how much...did your folks give you money, extra money so you could have a snack?
M: Of course...[inaudible].
C: Oh, do you remember the name of it?Ruthanne Martin 38
M: No, but I always bought chocolate covered ...[inaudible].
C: Oh, fancy taste.
M: ...[inaudible].
C: And you’d take them in the theater with you?
M: ...[inaudible].
C: Oh, and they’d let you bring them in?
M: Yes.
C: Oh, that’s neat. ...[inaudible]. So we know that you could smoke in the lobbies and stuff, and you could take... you could buy and take refreshments with you. And you did go C: on dates to the movies. You would go on to a movie on a date. Was that popular then? As it is now.
M: Uh-huh. ...[inaudible].
END OF TAPE 1, SIDE 2.Ruthanne Martin 39
TAPE 2, SIDE 1
C: Do you ever have any memories of smooching at the theater?
M: No.
C: No kissing at the movies?
M: No.
C: Oh, why? Okay. Is there anything else, that I haven’t brought up, that you would like to tell me about the movies? Is there anything that you think I should know, that the Institute of Texan Cultures should know, in relation to this project about movie theaters in San Antonio in the ‘20’s, ‘30’s, ‘40’s and early ‘50’s and the whole environment of the movies, and the movie theaters in which they were shown? We’re real interested in these theaters too. The buildings themselves, and the whole culture of the theaters. Is there anything I haven’t asked you that you think I should know?
M: I don’t know. I think it’s a shame that they tore some of the neighborhood theaters down.
C: Why do you think they took them down?
M: I would think they weren’t doing any business. They
M: had TV, and they had other...
C: Do you think the neighborhood theaters kind of ceased to be profitable once TVs became more, you know...
M: Yes.Ruthanne Martin 40
C: I guess...when did you start seeing TVs? When did TVs start being...becoming popular in just the average house? Do you know?
M: Oh, I’d say the early ‘50’s.
C: Okay. So...and you think that’s about the time that the...?
M: Yeah, I think so. More or less. Families would have TV, you know; the children could watch their favorite shows, and the neighborhood movies...[inaudible].
C: Yeah. Because that was a neat opportunity for young kids to have something to do.
M: Uh-huh.
C: Not as expensive as a big theater. But I’m sure seeing second run movies. And you said that was Shirley Temple... what were they showing at the neighborhood theaters? What kind of stuff?
M: Oh, western...[inaudible]. Well, I’ll say second rate – they were movies that had been to the Majestic and the Aztec...[inaudible].
C: Second run. In other words, they were making the rounds again?
M: Uh-huh.
C: Not necessarily that they weren’t as good, they were just...
M: Of course they were budget movies...Ruthanne Martin 41
C: What about – San Antonio had a lot of military bases – were there movie theaters at the bases? Were you aware of that?
M: I don’t think I was ever – no. [inaudible].
C: So you didn’t ever date anybody in the military that took you to a movie on base? No? I’ll bet there were a lot of military people in and out - young men - in and out of San Antonio during World War II.
M: Uh-huh.
C: Tell me, I’m real interested in the Alameda Theater on Houston Street. You were telling me that you didn’t remember it at a previous location.
M: Uh-huh. I think they’re rebuilding it.
C: Now? Oh, yes, they are. Uh-huh. My information shows that the Alameda was originally opened in 1949. Did it always have that big neon light on the front of it that it does now? Do you remember?
M: Yes, I think it has. It was really something ...[inaudible] people because...[inaudible], you know.
C: What do you mean by that? You mean the theater itself?
M: Uh-huh.
C: Have you ever been in that theater?
M: No.
C: But was there stuff in the paper when they opened it?
M: Yes.Ruthanne Martin 42
C: Articles?
M: And I saw an article recently about how they had ...[inaudible]. I don’t know how long ago that was.
C: Actually I think it’s an on-going project right now. The big neon light that it’s famous for – that decorates the front of the Alameda Theater – has it always been there? Do you remember it?
M: I don’t know whether it’s the same one or not, but they always had a decorated name up there.
C: Did they ever have any premiers of any, like, any movies with Mexican movie stars in them, or Latino, you know, Hispanic movies – do you think they ever used the Alameda for premiers of those kinds of movies?
M: Yes, it seems to me like they’d make a movie of ...[inaudible] got killed?
C: I don’t know – what do you mean – a singer that got killed?
M: Down in Corpus.
C: Oh, Selena.
M: Uh-huh. I think they made a movie...
C: Yes, they did make a movie about her.
M: And I think it was shown...
C: It premiered in San Antonio. That’s just a couple or three years ago or something like that. Yeah. I’m thinking C: about, like, though from the ‘40’s or early ‘50’s or Ruthanne Martin 43
something. Well, the Alameda would have been the ‘50’s then. Was Dolores del Rio still making movies in the ‘50’s? Was she still a popular...?
M: No, I don’t think so.
C: No?
M: Because I remember her as a movie...[inaudible].
C: Oh, okay. All right.
M: She was very good...[inaudible]. I think she made movies with Rudolph Valentino.
C: You know San Antonio itself has really close ties to Mexico.
M: Uh-huh.
C: I wonder, do you think any of the Hispanic movie stars retired to San Antonio or anything like that? Was this a popular place for them to come?
M: No.
C: To visit? You don’t remember that?
M: Except that...Cantinflas might have come here. He was very famous, but I didn’t know much about him until I saw him in Around the World in Eighty Days.
C: Oh. Right.
M: ...[inaudible].
C: I’m going to stop the tape for a minute. Okay. I’m just going to...I’ve got some pictures, taken from the ‘30’s. I think this was 1937, and this is a picture of the Ruthanne Martin 44
C: Guadalupe Theater on Guadalupe Street. At the time it was called The Progresso Theater – do you know that? Does that look familiar?
M: No.
C: Okay. And that’s the old Alameda, apparently in a location before its current location on Houston Street. You said that didn’t look familiar to you. Now here is a Hispanic theater. This is from the ‘30’s. This is called The Teatro Nacional, and that theater would have been located on – let’s see if I have the address for that – that was located at 817 West Commerce – this is from 1937. Does that look familiar?
M: No.
C: Okay. Well, I have this picture here that is called The Teatro Zaragosa – The Zaragosa Theater – and this is from 19–, oh, 1930’s. And the address for this theater was 805 West Commerce. And then in the ‘30’s and the ‘20’s, and actually there is a Zaragosa Theater from 1914 at 805 West Commerce, up through 1935. And then in 1943, which I think this is prior to that, this was from the ‘30’s – this picture here is from the ‘30’s, so this would have been at the 805 West Commerce. After that in 1943 the Zaragosa Theater moved to 819 West Commerce.
M: This is...[inaudible].
C: That one would have been at 805 West Commerce. This is Ruthanne Martin 45
real interesting because it’s got the advertisements for how C: much it costs to get in the theater – the big sign up there. And it’s got – over here in the window in an adjoining building, The Mexican Oriental Club. I notice downstairs there’s an Oriental Café.
M: ...[inaudible].
C: Does that look...can’t remember that? But you can tell from the age of the automobiles...what age would you say that automobile is? It’s sitting there out in front. What year?
M: 1928, ’29, ’30.
C: Okay. Now this theater is the Obrero - O-b-r-e-r-o Theater, the Obrero Street Theater. And it’s another Hispanic theater that was located at 416 West Houston in the ‘20’s and ‘30’s and even up through...then in ’54 it opened again. But you can tell from that picture that that’s probably from the ‘20’s and ‘30’s by the vehicles. But I don’t know, look at the name of the movie that’s showing there – it’s Miss Pacific Fleet, with Joan Blondell on the...
M: Uh-huh.
C: What year would that have been? Would that have been sometime during World War II?
M: Yeah.
C: It looks like there’s...see the sign up there that says Ruthanne Martin 46
Theater Obrero? And there’s looks like there might be a café next door – Manual...[inaudible] Café – and this one
C: was located at 416 West Houston.
M: East Houston is east of Flores, and West Houston is west of Flores.
C: Okay. So would this be down past the Santa Rosa? The Santa Rosa Theater? I mean the Santa Rosa Hospital is where the hospital is now? Because this is showing the Alameda at 514 West Houston, so that had to be the block closer to... you know.
M: ...[inaudible].
C: The middle of downtown.
M: ...[inaudible].
C: Doesn’t look familiar? Look a the age of the cars there? I mean those are vintage – ‘20’s vehicles – but look at the movie that is showing there is from the ‘40’s – isn’t that kind of strange?
M: ...[inaudible] Model A.
C: Was it common in San Antonio for the twenty year old cars to be driven like that? Had the depression been hard?
M: Well, this is before the depression.
C: But no, it wouldn’t have been, though, look at the movie – Joan Blondell in Pacific Fleet.
M: It might have been a movie made before the war, I believe.Ruthanne Martin 47
C: Oh, okay. I don’t know. I could find out the year that the movie was made and that might help a little bit. Okay. What I have here in this picture, this next picture C: is a picture of the neon sign on the Alameda Theater – downtown. See the very fancy tall...
M: Uh-huh.
C: Do you remember, they said the Alameda opened in ’49. As far as you know, is that what the original neon sign to the Alameda Theater looked like? Do you remember it?
M: ...[inaudible].
C: Okay. All right. Another theater in San Antonio that I showed you that other picture of a very...for the location for the Guadalupe Theater. And, of course, now that has evolved into the Guadalupe Cultural Art Center in San Antonio. Let me see if I’ve got a picture. No, but it’s become a center for the performing arts – I might have something elsewhere back here – I’ll stop the tape for a minute. I’m going to turn on the recorder again for just a minute to ask you again is there anything you think I should know about the movies, and movie theaters, in San Antonio in the ‘20’s, ‘30’s, ‘40’s or ‘50’s? It can be about your experiences, it can be about things that you know about those theaters or anything like that. Have I missed anything? Is there anything that you’d like to add to this tape? Ruthanne Martin 48
M: No. I remember west of the Texas, the river...
C: The Texas Theater?
M: Uh-huh.
C: Yes, that’s the San Antonio River that runs right there C: west of the Texas, isn’t it?
M: Yeah. There were two little – two small stages [?] maybe? One story. I never did go in...
C: Do you remember the names of those theaters?
M: No. But most Spanish people would go there.
C: Oh, okay. That may have been some of those addresses that we were looking at, like, 416 West Houston and all that That may be, or something like that, that may have been those theaters that we were showing at those addresses.
M: Uh-huh.
C: Because there were theaters called like The Mexico Theater at 409 West Houston and there was a Morales Theater – that was on El Paso. There was a New Strand Theater on West Houston in 1922 or 1924. Do you remember that at all? M: I wasn’t born.
C: Well, do you remember...do you have any...well, it might still have been opened later. Do you remember a Strand Theater?
M: Strand...
C: See – here’s a Hildago Theater – there’s a lot of small theaters apparently. But the Majestic and the Aztec and theRuthanne Martin 49
Texas must have been the premier first-run theaters, at least from what time frame do you remember them being?
M: I know they were built in the late ‘20’s – all three of them.
C: And they were immediately the...?
M: Main ones.
C: Main theaters. Was it because of their size or their decorations or just...?
M: Yeah, well...
C: Everything.
M: ...Just three. ...Josephine...
C: But now I’m sure that the Josephine didn’t open until 1954.
M: Well, that’s before they had the plays down there.
C: Uh-huh. 339 West Josephine.
M: Uh-huh. Yeah. That’s where they have plays now.
C: Uh – yes. They’re showing the Harlandale Theater at 5629 South Flores.
M: Uh-huh.
C: This was...and it’s showing it up like in ’43 and showing it re-opening again in 1954 – the Harlandale Theater.
M: ...[inaudible].
C: That was fifty years ago.
M: ...[inaudible].Ruthanne Martin 50
C: Okay. Well, I guess that’s all I have to ask you. I’m going to turn the recorder off now.
END OF TAPE 2, SIDE 1.
SIDE 2 – BLANK.