INTERVIEW WITH MAYOR W. W. McALLISTER
Interviewer:
Date:
Place:
Clyde W. Ellis
July 22, 1976
4th Floor, San Antonio Savings Building
(Tape 4)
ELLIS: This is my fourth interview with former Mayor Walter W.
McAllister in his fourth floor office in the San Antonio Savings
BUilding.
McALLISTER: Has the record been good? Have you been able . . .
ELLIS: Yes, everything's been perfect.
McALLISTER: It has? Fine ... good.
ELLIS: Yesterday we were talking about the fact that a young member
of the City Council had died and there was some debate in different
sectors about changing the charter and you decided to go on the Coun-cil
to help preserve the charter in which you were interested.
McALLISTER: Yes, I was very muchly interested in in having
worked, well, 1 guess, twenty years you might say almost, from 1930 to
1951, when the final council-manager charter was adopted and 1 was
very concerned and didn't want to go back to the individual represen-tat
ion.
ELLIS: And you had helped write that, hadn't you?
McALLISTER: Yes, I was chairman of the commission that wrote it.
ELLIS: Ye s .
McALLISTER: But I'll say this to you, we couldn't have done a good
job without Ed Conroy. We had the city attorney of Dallas corne down .
. We just got help from everywhere . . . wherever there was a good
96
97
operation ,as we thought ! of council manager, why we got their repre­sentative
to come and address our group. We worked hard all that sum­mer
of 1951 and submitted it, as I recall, in October to the citizens,
and they adopted it and it went into effect in January, 1952. Then, as
was so frequently the case, we left candidate selection to the inter­ested
individual and we found that it just doesn't work out satisfac­torily.
The same thing happened then as is happening now. Individuals
became candidates because they had a personal ambition of one kind or
another . . . to get into politics
a ,\-vorthy cause as far as that goes
that's all right that's
I'm not critical of it but I
just say to you that with no ticket there was entirely too much inde-pendence.
Each one independent of the others . see? And we had so
many changes and so many resignations and so many vacancies that had
to be filled, that it was obvious the program needs direction. I was
not in San Antonio at that time when the Good Government League was
formed.
ELLIS: Washington?
McALLISTER: I was in Washington, yes. But it was obvious to a good
many of the leading citizens that something had to be done. And so
they followed the program they had in Dallas. In Dallas a group of
the bankers and businessmen had been selecting for some years . . .
various candidates and financing their elections. It was felt that
Dallas had developed a very satisfactory and a very fine and efficient
and economical administration which was not what we had. In June,
1960, a $9 million bond issue was submitted. That was one the
98
Conservation Society was so strong against because the so-called North
Expressway took some Brackenridge Park acreage. And they defeated it.
ELLIS: What were some of the ramifications of that Expressway thing?
They opposed it because it was going through the Park?
McALLISTER: Yes, that was their principal proposition. It took six
acres off the southern edge of Brackenridge Park. Frankly, it had
never been improved at all. It was just rough weeds. It took an addi­tional
three acres off the southwest corner which resulted in the nec­essity
of redesigning the golf course.
ELLIS: I wonder if that was a legitimate concern or if that was the
cover-up of the citizens who wanted to oppose it for selfish ends.
McALLISTER: I'm willing to say that was a legitimate concern and that
we should always s tudy very, very carefully any converted use of lands
that have been dedicated as park lands. There's no question about
that. What land was taken really was, was not important in my opin­ion,
as it did not harm the Park. As I said to you, they defeated it
as I recall by 331 votes . . . on the 20th day of June 1960.
ELLIS: And who was mayor then?
McALLISTER: Kuykendall
ELLIS: And so then .
were on the council .
Ed Kuykendall was.
how did we proceed from that point? You
McALLISTER: No, I was not on the council. One of the younger members,
a local rancher, died unexpectedly, and several of the Good Government
leaders (as I recall, Frank Gillespie, Bob Sawtelle and Harold Keller,
were among the committee who called) strongly urged me to accept
99
appointment to fill the vacancy. After several days' deliberation, I
agreed and came on the Council about September 1, 1960. Just before
that occurred, a group of citizens, Americans of Mexican extraction,
and others, asked me to participate with them in an effort to change
the charter so that members would be elected from districts, a return
to the old ward system we had from 1875 to 1914.
ELLIS: What was their dissatisfaction . . was it with the fact that
the government was functioning inefficiently rather than a flaw in the
charter ... right?
McALLISTER: They wanted to change the charter to have representation
by districts. In other words, return to the old ward system. That's
what it amounted to. And I remember very distinctly their feeling
about it. And I can't say that I blamed them for having that feeling
I disagreed with their conclusions and gradually talked them out
of the attempt. They strongly urged me to go on the Council and I
said, "All right, I'll consider it." And I got to thinking about it
and I thought, "Now I worked so hard to get this thing here , I ought
to give a little more time to civic affairs to prevent this thing from
taking place," unless I changed my mind and agreed with them that is the
proper thi ng to do. As soon as I got on the Council, why the reporters
came to me and as ked, "What are you going to do about the North Express­way?"
And I said, "The people turned it down ... that's the end of
it as far as I'm concerned." Then our Council meetings were not nearly
as protracted ... as long as they are today. As I recall, it was
about the 15th of October . . . General Hudnell came before the Council
100
. . he was the commander of Kelly Field . . . and said, "Gentlemen,
I want to tell you . . . not for publication but I want to inform you
that, in the interest of e ffi ciency and economy, one or two of the
AMA's (the military technical name given to an operation like Kelly
Field, and there're nine of them in the United States), are going to be
closed." He said, "The ones that are likely to be given first consid­eration
to being closed are those that are the least efficient." He
said, "I'm sorry to tell you, but Kelly Field is not the most effi­cient.
But when I make that criticism of it, I think I can explain
it to you. \,e've got 25,000 employees who get off the Expressway,
they have a mile and a half to go to get into Kelly Field. And in the
morning, there're three lanes going down that street toward Kelly
Field, and they're bumper to bumper. It takes them an hour to make
that mile and a half. They're bound to have a sense of frustration
when they ge t to their jobs that unconsciously adversely affects the
quality of their work."
He made such an impression on me, that when the meeting was
over, I said to Mayor Kuykendall, "You know, Ed, let's get the gang
together, we've got to have a conference on this matter." So we did,
and I said, lIFellas, you 've heard the master's voice; we can't i gnore
what General Hudnell said to us." The Mayor said, "Well, what do you
suggest doing?" And I said, "There's only one thing to do. We've got
to resubmit the bond issue, and we've got to include enough money to
build that mile and a half of road from the Expressway into Kelly
Field, and make it a first - class road, so their staff can get through
there in less time." So, they asked me if I wouldn't take over the
chairmanship of the campaign. I said, "Well, let me first see what
101
the sentiment is of the members of the Good Government League." So, I
called Frank Gillespie and a group together, and I told 'em what the
situation was. They agreed and asked me to take over the campaign. I
agreed if they were willing to raise the money to properly present it
to the voters. I said, "You can't sell an idea, you can't get people
to adopt an idea that's going to cost them money in taxes, unless you
sell them on the advantages of it, and that's all there is to it." So,
they said, "Well, what do you need?" I said, "Well, I've talked to
Some of the advertising people and I figure $35,000 will do a good job.
So, they said all right. Well, to make a long story short, about the
first of January, 1961, "'e started to work for the election set for
the 16th of January. We put three or four ads in the paper, and sent
descriptive brochures on it to all the voters. We had area meetings
and told people in the various areas why it was so very important that
the bonds be approved. When they counted the votes on the 16th of
January, everyone of the issues passed. I think there were about
nine different items altogether. All passed by a vote of almost two
to one. And the North Expressway, which had been defeated by 331 votes
in June, 1960, was included. It wasn't any time at all before we were
faced with the election in April. They asked me if I wouldn't consider
heading the ticket. And I said I'd consider it, and I finally made up
my mind that I would. I said, "Well, I will do so under one considera­tion:
I want only one man on the present council. I want all the rest
102
to be new. And I said, "I want you to pick the men, but tell me who
they are before you tell them. And if I say thumbs up, OK, if I say
thumbs down, no quest ion about it." That was the way it was done, and
I'm glad to say that I got a very good group . We had a little diffi­culty,
we didn't all see eye-to-eye all the time, which is natural,
and which was to be expected, but by and large, we worked very well
together.
ELLIS: Do you remember who most of 'em are?
McALLISTER: The onl y man from the previous council that I wanted was
Mike Passeur, who was the purchasing agent for Sears, Roebuck, and
immediately, the area manager of Sears, Roebuck, I can't recall right
now who it was, at the time, he came to me and said, "Walter, Mike
hasn I t worked in four years. He's got to go to work." I said, "1'm
sorry, I've got to have him, that's all there is to it." So he said
to me, "Well, how long do you have to have him?" And I said, "Well, a
mini mum of six months, a maximum of twelve months." I wanted Mike as
mayor pro tem. I wanted someone who had experience and I knew that I
could work with and t hat he and I saw things very much alike. I
didn't know who the new council would be, so they picked a new coun­cil
and, frankly, we had a very good council. We all worked well
together. As I recall, the primary was on April 4 and the run-off ,
in the event that there would've been a run- off, was two weeks later,
which would be the 18th. I told the candidates on my ticket, "Now,
fe11as, l et me say this to you: my wife and I have planned for a
year to take a trip around the world and our tickets and everything
103
call for leaving San Antonio the 15th of April. So we all have to get
our tails over the dashboard because we're going to leave then, that's
all there is to it!' And so, all went over except two. One was Roland
Bremer. Rowland Bremer was a builder and a lumberman and, inciden­tally,
a member of the Mormon Church, and a very, very fine man. I
just never met a finer man. Roland and one other, I can find out for
you who he was, are, but I don't recall. (Pause) We made our tapes
and everything of the sort before I left on the trip and I think I was
in Tokyo when they telephoned me that our contested two had won and I
had been elected Mayor. Under the then charter, the Mayor was selected
then by the council from among themselves. The election had gone off
very satisfactorily; all nine of us from the same group were aboard.
I remember George de la Garza was one of our councilmen, and Roy
Padilla, and I knew George, but I didn't know Roy Padilla so well;
however, he came very highly recommended. He had a group of friends
who worked on the West Side, almost you might say the GGL West Side.
They were the ones that had selected these two men . I noticed in the
course of the next four or five months that there was a tendency on
the part of these two men to vote strictly on the basis of advantage
to Mexican-Americans or West Side or not. And, I called them both
into my office one day, after a meeting, and I said, "Look fellas,
we're all citizens of San Antonio. The welfare of this community is
what we're after first." I said, "Now I'm perfectly willing to admit
to you that I would consider adversely anything that woul d be unques­tionably
detrimental to anyone segment of the city, whichever segment
104
it might be, but I said, "You can't always jus t go ahead and figure a
proposition as to whether or not it's going to be a benefit to the
West Side and if it doesn't aid the West Side, that you're opposed to
it. Well, my suggestion took with George de la Garza, who was, is one
of my very good friends. But with Roy Padillo it didn't take. And so
on. After this two-year term, why I just suggested the group get some-body
else in Roy's place. And Roy dropped out .
ELLIS: At that time, you didn't have a veto or?
McALLISTER: No, but we had Raul Rodriguez, oh, he was a very interest­ing
citizen. He's a sign painter, and he still is, is in public
affairs, in public life here in town, but he, he was quite an annoy­ance
to begin with. But I learned how to take care of him, and that
was all right.
ELLIS: Well, I just wanted to ask you when these awkward things came
up with these citizens, sometimes they were rather mi l itant or rude on
occasion, I guess you had to cultivate the knack of not allowing it to
pique you and annoy you.
McALLISTER: I want to say to you that on many occasions I came to the
office after a Thursday morning that was particularly irritating and
just wondered, just l ooking at myself, so to speak, how in the world
did I maintain my poise, but you know, a funny thing, I got so that it
was just like water off a duck's back. It just didn't bother me, I
didn't carry it with me at all, I just said they were there,and that
was the thing that they were interested in. I didn't agree with some
and others made a suggestion or criticism that I thought was valid and
and I thanked them.
105
ELLIS: What were major things that were accomplished in your terms as
Mayor that you thought were beneficial to the city? Do you remember
anything outstanding?
McALLISTER: Well, of course, the bond issues we passed were a big aid
to the city, there is no doubt about it. It was a good thing that we
spent the money then for the simple reason that if we were to do the
same job today, it would cost so much more. I would say that one of
the big things that we managed to do was HemisFair. I think HemisFair
was a tremendous boon to San Antonio and I would rate very high the
Convention Center that we built. And they wanted it named after me
then and I said no I didn't want it named after me. Not because I
objected to it being named but because I just didn't think I was, I
guess I was just a little bit modest. And didn' t feel that it was nec­essary
to do that.
ELLIS: Well, that certainly was an outstanding thing I think in San
Antonio's progress .
McALLISTER: We opened our HemisFair on the sixth day of April, 1968.
It was to run six months, through October, 1968. About, oh three or
four weeks after it was opened, one morning I got telephone calls here
from local people, mostly ladies, in fact I think all ladies, protest­ing
(pause) .. . I thought I'd never forget that.
ELLIS: It will come back.
McALLISTER: One morning after HemisFair had been opened for about
three weeks, on a Monday morning I received a phone call here at my
office from a lady in San Antonio and she was just "red . headed" over
106
a TV performance that she had seen the night before, something on CBS
called "Hunger in America." And I, of course, was at a lo s s as I
hadn ' t seen it and I didn't know what she was talking about. I fig­ured
she was just excited and so in the course of t ine she hung up.
As soon as she hung up, I got a call from another lady . Same thing .
And as soon as she hung up, another call from another lady. Same thing.
And after the fourth one I said to my secretary, "I'm out. No more of
this . I can't do any work." All of them had the same point of view
and all just red headed over the proposition. Well, as the s aying
goes, out of sight, out of mind . And I didn't pay any attention it it
until Thursday when I got the mail from the city. I handled the city
mail that was addressed to the Mayor. I replied to the city mail here
in my office. It was so much more convenient for me to have my own
secretary do it than to have the city secretary do it. Well, to make
a long story short, that Thursday I had 28 letters and 25 of 'em from
people outside of the s tate and three from people in the state, and
all saying almost the same thing. Twenty-five out of the twenty-eight
said, "We intended to come to San Antonio to see HemisFair, but if
that's the kind of a city you've got, we're not coming." Well, when I
read that, that demanded action. So, I rang up KENS and asked them if
they had a tape of it and they said yes . I said, "How soon can you
show it to me?" They said, "In an hour." Well, I went on over there,
and I saw it, and I looked at it with Wayne Kearl, as I recall, was the
manager of KENS-TV at the time . After viewing the film, I said, "Well,
Wayne, you know that's a damned lie. That's the most outrageous mis ­representation
I have ever seen."
107
ELLIS: Who had gotten the ..
McALLISTER: CBS had gotten it together, and they had sent, they had
sent some people to San Antonio who had pictured it in such a way that
the people got the idea that there was absol ute irresponsibility, no
local community effort to upgrade people or take care of them or to
help them in their difficulties. And , I'm sorry to say, but there was
an ex-policeman who had become a Catholic priest, who was one of the
ringleaders in it, and that guy walked up and down and what he was
showing, what he was demonstrating as "Hunger in America" which was
the title of the film. They were showing how we had hundreds, thou­sands
of Americans of Mexican descent that were hungry every day. It
was just awful . Unbelievable! They held up a baby, a newborn baby
that was horrible looking, unclothed, that had "died as a result of
malnutrition." On investigation, I found out that picture had been
taken at the Robert Green Hospital, contrary to regu l ations, no pic­tures
were to be taken. The facts were that the mother had come in
and given premature birth to this child. It weighed 2 pounds and 12
ounces, and had been in an incubator ever since it was born. The
mother was of American-Mexican extraction, and she and the child had
received the very best medical treatment that could possibly have been
given. And in the picture they held up this dead, naked child. When
I saw that, I was just flabbergasted, and I said, "Now we've just got
to do something about this." So, I said, "Wayne, will you run this
tomorrow?" And he said, "Sure, any time you say. II SO, I phoned the
Chamber of Commerce, the president, and told him about it, and I said,
108
IIYou've got to get your directors over here at 11:00 to see it,ll and
I called Dr. Al Hartman, who was one of our San Antonio Savings Asso­ciation's
directors, and a leading surgeon, and I said, "AI, have you
got a little operation for 11:00 tomorrow morning?" He said, I1No." I
said, "All right, you're dated now, and this what you must do. You
must come over here , and I want you to bring the two leading Mexican
pediatricians. They've got to come tomorrow. This is an absolutely
mus t proposition.
Well, the next day at 11:00 there were some 25 or 30 people in
that room to view that picture. Al Hartman, on one side of the table,
and two Mexican pediat ricians on the other, and when they flashed that
scene on the screen, that child held up there, as an example of death
from malnu trition, all three of those doctors said, just bingo l ike
that, without conferring, "That child did not die of malnutrition." I
said to Al, "What did it die of?" He said, " I don't know what it died
of; if I had to make one guess, I'd say it was a pulmonary disease ."
I said to the other two doctors, "Would you express an opinion?" "No,
but we know, we can say pos i tively it was not malnutrition." All
right, so we went to the hospital and made the investigation of it ,
and found out that the child was born prematurely, weighed 2 pounds and
12 ounces , and had died of pneumonia . It had contracted pneumonia in
the incubator. It was just too weak, t hat was all there was to i t.
And that' s what i t died of. And the woman who had permitted this
photographer to come in there, was a Mrs . Books, as I recall the name.
I was told she had been born in Russia and was a Communist. She let
109
those photographers in contrary to orders! And she lost her job as a
result of it . She let those people come in there to take this picture
and she knew what they wanted to do. That they wanted to misrepresent
San Antonio, conditions in San Antonio. And that was Wal ter Cronkite's
outfit. We never did sue them; we should have, but we didn ' t . And, I
venture the assertion that, showing of that picture, because I heard
about it wherever I went, and t hey continued to show it for months and
months and months a f ter, after the HemisFair was over. It was showing
as an example of social conditions in San Antonio. I venture the
assertion that that picture reduced our HemisFair attendance at least
one million.
ELLIS: Was any thing done, did you all try to, to counteract this
impression in any way? Or was it too late to really do anything about
it? Or course, on a national l evel
McALLISTER: On the national level, we couldn't. I wrote CBS but I
don't like lawsuits. That just didn't enter my mind at all, but
frankly, that is what we should have done. Sue CBS for about $50 mil­lion
and try to prevent them from showing the damn thing again . It was
a bad, bad proposition.
ELLIS: Well, you know, a f ter Kennedy was assassinated, all the maga­zine
articles, everything for years thereafter, portrayed Texas in the
worst possible light, too.
McALLISTER: Yeah.
ELLIS: Well, do you recall, any of the, what were some of the behind­the-
scenes planning for the development of HemisFair? Do you remember
who's major idea that was and who worked
110
McALLISTER: Well, let me say this to you, that a group of people had
that idea, and that idea had been propounded from, oh, say, 1960 on.
I won't say just exactly that date, but for several years before it
became an actuality.
ELLIS: How was it funded initially; were there several private ...
owners to the thing?
McALLISTER: Yes, there were. Let me say to you that, though he was
not the president at anyone time, the man in my opinion who initially
was responsible for the success of HemisFair was Marshall Steves of
San Antonio. Marshall undertook the proposition of getting guarantees.
You see , we knew it was going to cost money, and people just wouldn't
put up money, but they would put up a guarantee. And, 1 remember,
that he came to me for the San Antonio Savings Association to give a
guarantee, and I said, "Sure, we will guarantee $25,000." He said,
"$25, ODD?" He said, "We won't get to first base on that basis." And
to make a long story short, I don't remember what the exact amount was,
but somewhere in the neighborhood of $200,000, which was a big liabil­ity.
As I recall Marshall secured total underwriting of about $8 mil­lion.
As Mayor, 1 was on the board of HemisFair, and I attended most
of the meetings. 1 was very, very interested in it. It was a very
ambitious project. One of the good things that we got out of what was
known as Urban Renewal was the acquisition of 140 acres as an Urban
Renewal project and that made the Fair possible. The city never could
have acquired a tract of land like that for the purpose of having a
fair, but with Urban Renewal doing it, we bought it from Urban Renewal.
III
It really was one of the most important things that's been done for
the future growth of San Antonio. When we started out ... they were
going to get about $3 million in guarantees, and Marshall Steves got
close to $9 million in guar antees. The guarantees had to be made. On
the basis of those guarantees, HemisFair borrowed money from the banks
to build and operate on. They lost money and I can't tell you offhand
. . . what the total l oss was but I would say the total loss was
somewhere in the neighborhood of $3 or $4 million .
unquestionably a fine investment, well worth the cost
but it was
as I recall
... a little less than $100,000 was San Antonio Savings' share.
ELLIS: They prorated it--based on the guarantees .
McALLISTER: Yes, ... if your guarantee was $10,000 and mine was
$5,000, then you paid twice as much as I did. And it was unquestionably
a very, very fine, constructive movement . And a great bene fi t to San
Antonio . Now one of the men who was very ardent in its support and
development and so on was Pat Zachary. Pat waS not the first president
but Pat was elected as the president and he did a very fine job. He
didn't take construction contracts but he agreed to do, that is, have
his company do, the items that were hard to contract out because you
didn't know what was involved. I want to say one of the big decisions
that we finally succeeded in was to get John Connally , who was then the
Governor, and it took quite a lot of persuading ... believe you me,
to get him to do it, to recommend that the legislature authorize the
expenditure of $10 million for Texas. And that was the first big out­side
support that we got . It was a commitment for the State of Texas
112
and John Connally gave that to me after much persuasion on my
part. And after that, as I recall, I went to Spain and Portugal with
Jack Newman (?), one of the able men on t he HemisFair staff ... he's
now with the San Antonio Light .
ELLIS: You all went to Spain to solicit interest . . .
McALLISTER: Yes, to get Spain and Portugal to participate in the
exhibits, i.e., ... have a national exhibit ... and they did .
It was a very interest i ng experience. HemisFair unquestionably was
the one thing that has been done in the last 25 years that more than
anything else gave San Antonio a good name and wide promotion.
ELLIS: I think, in analyzing the different things that have been done
for progress in the city, there waS controversy in regard to HemisFair,
there was controversy with regard to the Expressway. But don't you
feel that you have to look at the total scope of the benefit that the
whole community gets?
McALLISTER: Yes, we do.
ELLIS : And these interest factions don't look at the total.
McALLISTER: Let me say to you, that the area that was selected for
. HemisFair . had already been surveyed by the Urban Renewal
agency and classed as a blighted area. They were considering that
area irrespective of what waS done so far as HemisFair was concerned.
But when the HemisFair board found out that Urban Renewal was consid­ering
it and they were able to classify it as an Urban Renewal area
in other words, 5~1o of the buildings had to be dilapidated . .
then, of course, that made that location a very practical and desirable
one for the Fair.
113
ELLIS: And it's such a core area .. . right downtown .. . to have
that improvement. Do you remember any of the outstanding people .
national and international dignitaries who came here for the Fair?
It seems to me there was always entertainment going on.
McALLISTER: Yes, there was. I don't know how they managed to do as
much as they did. Right there is a picture of the king of Norway who
was one of our guests and came down here. Very well pleased with the
reception he got . . . and also with what he saw. Now that country
did not have an exhibit.
ELLIS: Isn't there something in your outer office ... from Spain?
McALLISTER: Yes, in other words, the funny thing is, when we went to
Lisbon, Portugal, 1 took a watercolor from San Antonio . . .
along to give to the mayor and, by Jove, when 1 got there, he had a
watercolor to give to me and that's it right there on the wall. The
thing that really appealed to me more than anything else}sentiment, so
to speak . as a souvenir of the HemisFair, is that Sterling pl aque
that has all the signatures on it.
ELLIS: What is that?
McALLISTER: Those are al l the signatures of the managers of the vari-
OllS exhibits in HemisFair . the different countries and states
when I say states, Arkansas was the only state that really had an
exhibit. My service as Mayor of San Antonio was a very satisfactory
one. 1 found the city staff just as interested in the welfare of San
Antonio as 1 was and I remember when 1 first started . one of the
first things I wanted to find out was how we handled our employment
114
situation. Well, I went down to Clyde McCullough, who was the head of
the employment department, and I said, "Clyde, tell me how you handle
your department." And so he related they took the applications from
people and checked the applications and confirmed previous employment
and the capability of the applicant . and then figured out what
they were especially best at doing. And if you, as a department head,
had a vacancy for a certain particular kind of work, well, then you
told Clyde, "I need somebody who can do this, that, or the other,
describing your need." And he'd look over his list of applicants and
if he had as many as t hree or four that qualified along that line he'd
get in touch with them and they'd come to you and you interviewed them,
having the background of his record, and then made your own judgment as
to which one you wanted to employ, if any. And I said to Clyde right
away . . . "That's the way to run a bus iness . . . that's all right."
And I said, llI
1m new on the council and there're other new members and
we'll probably be given as references at times. When that happens, I
want you to contact us, but I want you to appraise what we say about
that individual in the same way that you would somebody else's com­ments."
So, as a result of our meeting of minds, I shortly thereafter
had the Council pass a resolution that it would be the policy of the
City of San Antonio to employ the best qualified individual that
applied for a job . irrespective of race, color, creed, sex, coun-try
of national origin, religion. In other words, we wanted it wide
open and we did that at least two years before Congress passed the
Civil Rights Act in 1964. And I want to say that the way the federal
llS
government has operated . the Civil Rights Act so far as we in San
Antonio are concerned, it has created racism that didn't previously
exist. On one of our early councils . . . we had Claude Black who was
a Negro minister. I'll say he made a very constructive addition to
our council. He repre sen ted that group of people but he did so in a
very fair and open-minded way. And I am frank to say to you, it's
kind of hard to say to you how things were then as contrasted to how
they are today, because this militancy is just present again and again
in all groups of people today. We didn't have it before .
ELLIS: Absolutely so . . I think the statements you made about the
racism being fostered by HEW is true and I think that some of their
organizational ideas are wrong.
McALLISTER: A coup l e of years after HemisFair, Jack Perkins of NBC
wrote and wanted to have an interview with me. And I was reluctant to
agree and I don't remember just exact l y what it was but I think it was
with regard to the Mexican situation and local racial situation . Fin­ally,
I persuaded myself that if I didn't do it and do it the way I
thought was right and fair, somebody else was going to do it and might
leave a very unfavorable impression of San Antonio . So I agreed to be
interviewed. They sent a photographer and a man to do the interview.
(That was NBC . . . "Woman's Voice .") You mean what I'm talking about
now was NBC? At any rate what they wanted (Mario Cantu . . . was one
of them) . . you know in olden days when there was a transfer of
title . . . it was always that there could be no Mexicans involved
and, of course, Mr. MacAlister ' s deed on the family home contained that
stipulation.
116
ELLIS: Well, anyway, so he came here to interview you?
McALLISTER: As I recall the interview started at 1 o'clock in the
afternoon and finished at five minutes to 2:00 ... I know that it
was just five minutes less than an hour, and I said to him, "How in
the world are you going to be getting anything good out of this, that
will be good on the broadcast is just beyond me." He said, "Don't
worry, we'll manage." Well, they managed all right. . believe you
me. He had gotten me talking about Communism which, of course, is one
of the subjects that you just wave a flag at me and I'm at it. And on
the tape he had me tal king about Communism just after he had shown a
picture on the screen of five or six Mexican men ... I didn't men­tion
a single Mexican in connection with Communism, and that comment
was just on the side, see? I didn't have any idea he was going to use
it . The only Mexican that 1 have heard of as being Communist , Caesar
Chavez, who's a California labor leader, and then there was one fellow
in Albuquerque that had been called a Communist. I well recall the
notoriety that came as a result of their picketing and 1 remember one
man in particular whom I had not been close to at all previously, and
he rang me up and said, "11m coming down to make an investment 'iV'ith
you." And that was Manion ... Joe Manion. After the showing of the
interview, which I didn't see when shown, some of our Mexican citizens
picketed the San Antonio Savings Association, and probably 50 formed a
picket march on Soledad Street. I was very surprised to see County
Commissioner Albert Pena in the group of pickets. As a matter of fact,
their picketing increased our deposits markedly and when the pickets
found that out, they ceased.
ELLIS: So then there was the garbage strike and then . . .
McALLISTER: You want to ask a question
117
ELLIS: Yes, in regard to the political situation here now . . . per­haps
the current, even the current . .
McALLISTER: Well, you see, we have an administration now that is
rather diverse . . . in other words six of them you might say are inde­pendents
and only three were elected under the auspices of the Good
Government League. As a consequence, our council today is one that
. it is rather difficult to get them to work concertedly on any
one particular proposition. If one makes a proposal . . . someone else
will have an opposite opinion.
ELLIS: Is Mayor Cockrell an Independent?
McALLISTER: She was supported by the GGL, as well as Cisneros and
Pyndus.
ELLIS: Do you think t he Good Government League will support her in
her next election?
McALLISTER: I don't know. the Good Government League has fal-tered
. . it I mean, it has just disintegrated in other
words, it doesn't have the leadership it used to have.
ELLIS: Do you feel there is going to be greater racial division in
the city . ethnic t ype?
McALLISTER: I would say that for the time being there is greater
emphasis upon ethnic divisions than there has ever been before, and
that will continue for some little time. But the l arger portion of the
inspiration comes from the activities of the bureaucrats . . . the
118
federal bureaucrats. They are really making the situation a lot worse
than it ever was.
ELLIS: Mayor, I noticed in the morning paper that your son, the Epis­copal
minister, is a possible choice for the Episcopal Bishop of
Oklahoma.
McALLISTER: It is, of course, a compliment to him that he should be
one of four or five men that they select, consider, for that responsi­bility
in the Episcopal church. On the other hand, I must confess if
he should be offered the position I'd be mighty sorry to see him leave
San Antonio.
ELLIS: I'm sure you would be. Was he, as a child growing up, did you
see this coming on the horizon that he had an interest in religious
activities?
McALLISTER: I have to tell you about him. When the war broke out
. . . World War II . . . it just happened that I had been to Cuba
my first visit to Cuba . had been there for about ten days . . .
and made rather a thorough visit of Cuba. And came back to Florida
where our national trade association was holding a convention . And
t hen when the convention was over, I came back to San Antonio but I
stopped off in Houston on business and overnight was at the Rice
Hotel. During the l ate afternoon, I was suddenly aware of a l ot of
noise and went to the window. . I was in a room on one of the
courts ... facing the street, and 10 and behold there were people
. the street was full of people . . . and the windows were open
and people were shouting out of the windows and some were throwing
119
sheets out and some pillows. I couldn't imagine what in the world it
was, so I picked up the telephone and called the clerk and said,
"Whatfs the mat ter. . the hotel on fire?" He said, "No, war has
been declared." So, I went back to San Antonio the next morning.
Gerry was a freshman at The University of Texas at that time and
he came back the next day or the day after and he said, "Dad, I want
to get in the service ." And I s aid, "No such thing of the kind. You
go on back and finish your education." Because I was afraid that a
young fe llow like that would get out of the school and never go back
to the school again. So he reluctantly went and came home Christmas
and I could see that he was studying over a proposition and came back
home about the 15th of January and said, "Dad, I can't s t and it. I've
got to get in the service." I said, "What branch of the service you
want to get into?" He said, "The Air Force. tI I said, HAll right, go
out to Kelly Field and take a physical examination. " Well, they turned
him down on account of his eyesight. Now I don't know whether they
were particularly carefu l of eyesight then or whether his sight was
bad . . but there had been nothing wrong with his eyesight except he
may have been s t raining . . . studying with a bad light or something
of that sort at The University. And so, when they turned him down, I
said, "Go on back to school. You tried your bes t." So he goes back
to The University and about a month later . . . the latter part of
February ... comes to San Antonio and says, "Dad , I just can't stand
it. I got to get in the service. 1I I said, "What is it now?" He said,
II l 've made application to join the Me rchant Marines . 11 I said, liMy
120
God, Gerry, they're sinking nine out of ten ships. You really do want
to commit suicide." But I shrugged my shoulders and I said, "If
that's the Lord's will, all right." So he quit school. And the boat
that he was going to sail on was to sail out of Houston in a couple of
weeks. So he goes over to Houston and when he gets there ... my
daughter and her husband were living in Houston . . the boat was
delayed about two months being ready . So my daughter suggested he get
a job with the Humble Company and go out in the oil field, in the geo­physical
field . . . which is what her husband was charge of . . . and
do that until the boat would be ready. So he said all right. So he
went out in the field and about two months later came in to town and
my daughter took him to Ellington Field for a physical examination and
he passed just like that , so she got him out of the Merchant Marine
service. Incidentally, he had to join the union in order to be able
to risk his life in the Merchant Marine.
ELLIS: That's r ather i ncredible.
McALLISTER: Well, at any rate, Gerry studied navigation. He was the
navigator of one of the first crews of flights from America to Engl and
and then f rom England over Germany when they were bombing Berlin. So
he had that experience and he continued as a navigator quite a bit
until, and after some time he became a r adar instructor in England.
And that's what he was at the time that the war was over. So when the
war was over he came back here and I said to him, "Go on back to
school." I wanted Gerry to study law . . . not to be a lawyer, but to
have a law background as a businessman because . . . in my opinion, he
121
would have been a crackerjack businesman. As a youth . . . as a young-ster
come Saturday he'd start out with a handful of marbles and
come back with a bag full. Tops, or whatever it was . he was
always trading. And a good one at that. So he went to The University
and came home again about the 1st of January and he said, "Dad, I've
made up my mind what I want to be." I said, "That's fine. What?" He
said , IIA minister. II I said, "My God, Gerry, a preacher ?lI He said,
"Yes. 1I "Well," I said, 11it t s the second to the last profession I would
have picked for you . But I'm a s trong be 1 iever that every man has to
do the thing that he wants to do. No man can live a happy life if he's
engaged in an occupation he doesn't like. And so you have my blessing."
We talked on for about 15 minutes and then, as he was leaving, he said
to me, "By the way, Dad, what's the last profession you would have
picked for me?" I said, "Undertaker." So we laughed and he went off
to school. He had the opportunity that spring of serving as substi­tute
for one of the Episcopal ministers who had a mission on the
nor thwest side of the city. And he also talked the Bishop into letting
him go to Alexander Seminary before he graduated fr om The University
of Texas. Ordinarily they won't take a person in the seminary unless
he 's a college graduate. And Gerry was only in his second year and
yet managed to talk Bishop Jones into l etting him go to the seminary .
So he went to the seminary and finished his work there. As I recall,
he was sent to Raymondville down in the Rio Grande Valley. And he had
a little mission down there . . . they called it a mission, see
a small church. From Raymondville to Corpus Christi and in the meantime
122
he'd gotten married. And he had never been ordained. And it had been
almost a year since he'd been out of the seminary. It worried me a
little bit. I said, "What's the matter, Gerry. Don't they want you
in the church?" He said, IIThat's all right, Dad, in due time, in due
time." Well, what he was doing, he didn't tell me, but what he was
doing was making up his mind that he really wanted t o be a minister.
And he was giving himself a good year before he was ordained. He
didn't want to be ordained until he had served as a missionary
didn't want to be ordained until he had made up his mind. And in the
meantime he married and he was very fortunate in marrying a girl "ho
made a wonderful "ife for a minister. A woman might make a good wife
for you, but she might not be a good wife for a minister. It 's a spe-cial
requirement that they have to have Well, to make a long
story short, he then was sent to Corpus Christi . . . he built a church
there and then went from Corpus Christi to Victoria where there was a
break in the Episcopal ranks and he took over one of the dissident
groups and built a church there. Then he was transferred to San
Antonio and he was made a Canon . . . in other words, he was sort of
an assistant Bishop; he "as given charge of the missions in this south­west
Texas diocese. And that included services every two weeks in
Fredericksburg at the Episcopal church there. That's where he got
acquainted with Lyndon Johnson and Lady Bird. And they were so
impressed that when their daughter, Lynda, got married in the White
House, they asked Gerry to come to the White House to conduct the ser­vices.
So he's been an Episcopal minister and he's done a good job.
123
He has charge of St. David's Church here in San Antonio ... and to
me it's very good that he 's in San Antonio. Of course, he loves San
Antonio . . . all of his folks are here and I would regret to see him
move somewhere else but at the same time, that's one of the possibili­ties
in the profession he's selected.
ELLIS: Well, your daughter Elizabeth and your other son Walter, Jr., you
have a crop of gr andchildren and great grandchildren, don't you?
McALLISTER: Yes. Ten grandchildren. Walter has two boys that are
both married and have children, and Elizabeth has two boys who are
both married, Jerry Solcher has two children and Joe Solcher, the
younger has one child. So I have ten grandchildren and seven great­grandchildren.
ELLIS: Do any of the younger generation take an interest in your
business here?
McALLISTER: Yes, I'm glad to say that ... my son (who was also in
World War II) from the time that he was about nine years old was a
was an office boy here at San Antonio Savings Association and
then when the war was over, came back after he finished his education
and he has been president of the Association for, I don't know how long,
but we'll say about 20 years, and I have been Chairman of the Board
until this year. This year, commencing in March, I became chairman of
the Executive Committee and son, Walter, Jr., became Chairman of the
Board, and Walter III called Bo, my grandson, who has been with us ten
years,
ELLIS: He's Walter's son?
124
McALLISTER: He's Walter's son and he is the president of the Associa­tion
now. He's Walter III.
ELLIS: Third generation also.
McALLISTER: Yeah, and he's Walter III and hJs married and has two
children--a boy and a girl--and the boy is Walter IV, only they call
him Will.
ELLIS: Uh-huh. Well, he may be the fourth generation McAllister in
this business.
ELLIS: This is Clyde W. Ellis concluding today's interview with for­mer
Mayor Walter W. McAllister. The other voice you hear on this
tape is that of Eleanor Treher, Mr. McAllister's secretary and dis­tinguished
girl Friday .
-k ~'( ....
I-ICAL LI STER, HALTER W. tape 4
City Council, 96 ,97, 99,102-105,
114,115,1 17(as mayor ,101-106,
113,114)
family ,118-124
Good Government League, 1 01 ,117
Hemisfair,105,106,l09-1l2
Kelley Field,100,101
North Expressway,97 -99 ,lOl
INDEX
i~cA 11 ister discuss es the infamous CBS Hlm "Hunger in America"
and its effect on Hemisfair; the Jack Perkins NBC interview which
depicted him as a racist. He dwells at length on the City Council
during the 50's,60 ' s, his terms as mayor,and city politics.