THE INSTITUTE OF TEXAN CULTURES
Oral History Office
SUBJECT: Changes in San Antonio last 25-30 years
INTERVIEW WITH: Ethel Minor (Tape 1 of 1)
DATE: 27 June 1994
PLACE:
INTERVIEWER: Sterlin Holmesly
TAPE I, Side 1
H: Interview with Ethel Minor, president of the San Antonio Chapter of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, June 27, 1994. I'm Sterlin Holmesly.
Okay, tell us about yourself.
M: My name is Ethel Minor. I was born in San Antonio. I left; I was reared in Columbus, Texas, and then came back to San Antonio in 1944, where I went to work for the Federal Government, and I worked there for thirty-five years, and I retired in 1980. And I was EEO Specialist, and I managed two programs: the Black Employment Program and the Handi-capped Program. And upon my retirement - I guess I retired for about two years - I began working at the Antioch Baptist Church as the church secretary. And I worked there until June of last year and I resigned from that.
H: How long have you been with the NAACP?
M: Eight years.
H: As the president?
M: Yes. I've been president for the past eight years.H: And were you an officer of the organization before then?
M: Yes.
H: How long have you worked with the organization?
M: I worked with them since the '50s. I could imagine... I used to write a lot of memberships. During the earlier part I was rearing two children, and we worked long hours at the [military] bases then. Sometimes we worked seven days a week when I first started working...
H: Right. During the war, yeah.
M: Yes. And I reared two kids. They're five years apart, and they were into different things. That took a lot of my time - being a full-time, being a parent...
H: Right.
M: ...you know, because my husband and I were divorced. And so, I drew up memberships, basically, or participated in some of the youth activities. I remember we did...we had the NAACP Youth Choir, and we had a pageant on the River, and we'd go out of town to some of the conventions and things like that. But I really began working, I guess, about twelve-thirteen years ago, because I became affiliated, and I served two years as third vice-president, and then I served two years as first vice-president.
H: Well, you've obviously had a long-time interest in civil rights. How would you compare the San Antonio you began working at the base in...
M: 1944.Ethel Minor (Tape 1 of 1)
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H: ...that's fifty years ago. How about life in San Antonio then and now and in between, for a black person?
M: There have been a lot of changes, a lot of changes. But as I look at it today, in some instances I see us going back to the '50s. And I can say that, based on some of the complaints and things that we're getting in. You know, like the eating places here where blacks were being harassed. Some of the things that are said to persons on the job. The way some of them are being terminated. It's just a number of things. We have made great strides from the '50s until now. But there's just so much where people were kind of a lot of bigots, and they really didn't care because they felt like nothing was going to be done. And I guess with the passage of the Civil Rights Act, it was kind of like you're holding this over my head, and they felt that people wanted quotas and we weren't looking for quotas, we were looking for equal employment or whatever. Just equality across the board is what people were looking for. And spending their dollars; they wanted to be treated like other citizens. I can remember the time when we used to go in the old Joske's - now, you couldn't even go in and try on a hat. You know. H: Yeah.
M: The Camellia Room [restaurant], you know, that had to be integrated. You couldn't go in there and eat. So, times are really changing. And I think, you know, history needs Ethel Minor (Tape 1 of 1)
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to be revealed in these instances, because a lot of these M: young people now don't realize that a lot of these things really happened. And not only black kids. Across the cultural aspect, if you want to say. And I'm saying this, because I spoke to a journalism class at Sam Houston [high school], at the early part of the school year, and I had this tape, "The Lonely Struggle", and Dr. Foster asked me to let her show it to some of the kids as we talked because Dr. Foster had worked with civil rights in Houston. And as I let her view this tape, other teachers asked for it. And the kids' reactions were, "This doesn't happen! This didn't happen". And I showed the same tape to a group of young people up at Canyon Lake, which is predominately white - I think they've only had two black students in that school a couple of years ago - and they showed it. And we went back and we talked to them. We said, "If we had told you this and you had not seen this, would you have believed it?" And they said, "No". You know. So they need to know what has happened in the past - the abuses and the struggles and the progress, you know - that has been made, the sacrifices that people have made to get to the point where we are now.
H: Well, would you say that there's a resurgence of racism, now, in San Antonio?
M: Yes.Ethel Minor (Tape 1 of 1)
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H: Or has it ever quite gone away?
M: I can't say that it just completely went away. It...I M: don't think we'll ever see it completely disappear. There's going to be; it won't be in my lifetime, won't be in your lifetime, maybe in my grandchildren's lifetime, you know. Because...but with the rise of the skinheads, the younger people with the Klan and that kind of thing, it's a perpetuation, in certain instances. You look at your TVs and you see these youngsters. So there is...just like we're preaching peace and love and let's come together, let's work together, there's a certain portion of our communities - and I'm not just saying San Antonio, but our communities around the country - who are still talking hate. You know.
H: Right. Well, I...
M: Separatism.
H: How do you perceive the relations between the Hispanics and blacks in San Antonio's East Side, which has changed drastically demographically in the last ten or fifteen years?
M: Yes, it has, because you see that the Hispanics...the East Side is the place for Hispanics - some kind of bumper sticker - I have seen that.
H: I think the demographics now are about one-third Anglo, one-third Hispanic and one-third black.
M: It might be less than that as far...or more than that Ethel Minor (Tape 1 of 1)
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as far as Hispanics are concerned, I would think.
H: Does the...
M: I think it will be less blacks.
H: Well, how do the blacks and browns get along?
M: I guess about as well as they do in any other portion of the city. I have not seen, or not heard, any radical changes with them.
H: No outright conflict.
M: No. Not that. Now, it could be things is happening that I don't see, that you're not getting into the paper and that kind of thing. No...[laughter]...if I would see any-thing, I would see more crack houses or dope houses which is both...
H: Right.
M: ...I guess, the blacks and Hispanics too.
H: Yeah, and the whites too, as far as that goes.
M: Yeah. And what I'm getting ready to say - like when they had this thing up on the Hill, and that's the ironic part of it. When you look up there and see the Mercedes and the Jaguars. Where in the devil do these people over here get that kind of money? It's coming in from somewhere. You know. So...
H: Well, the customers are coming from other parts of town too.
M: Uh-huh. Well, it could be customers...well, it could Ethel Minor (Tape 1 of 1)
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be it's customers and then it could be the pushers too. Because where are you going to get all this money to do this? Maybe they're coming to collect. I don't know. And I just try to stay as far away from that as I can, but I M: know the Hill. I know right down the street from me, on my street - in fact it was Joe's mother's husband's house ...
H: Joe Scott's?
M: Uh-huh...that they just tore down. I think it was the latter part of last year. And I'm living right on the street, that's the reason. You never know what's next door to you or what's coming into your neighborhood. You know, you need to. And you see people coming in. Well, I know the house was vacant for a very long time. And I guess it had been under surveillance; I don't know whether the people were coming through the back, you know, using...the next thing I knew it was torn down. In fact, it was...and they said it was drugs. The neighbors that were there during the day said they saw them taking people out and everything.
H: Another thing that's changing in the East Side is the leadership. A lot of changes. You're still a leader. But the Suttons...
M: I don't call myself a leader. I really don't. I call myself a concerned citizen who works to bring about a change. And I get kind of...I don't like the term black Ethel Minor (Tape 1 of 1)
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leaders, because we don't have too many. Okay? Maybe the days of Professor Sutton, you know, over there at the school, you know, there were times when blacks looked up to the schools, you know - the teachers and the pastors in their community, as their leaders, you know.
H: Is that no longer true?
M: That's not true today.
H: Who do they look up to?
M: There are certain persons and, I guess, kind of maybe tend to organizations, but people will speak out. But I can't say I speak for all black folks over here. I would, you know...maybe people will look at me as a leader, but me as myself, I enjoy what I do. I try to help as many people as I can, because I feel that that's the right thing to do. Now, if they want to look on me as a leader, whatever, you know, and some of them probably look at me as something else too. But anyone that's interested in the progress of making something happen, you know. It's just somebody that really wants to do something.
H: I was talking to Claude Black the other day in this program, and he said the politicians who go to the churches, to try to get the support of the women and pastors, are way behind the times. Do you agree with that statement? Political...
M: I have resented that from the beginning. I feel that ifEthel Minor (Tape 1 of 1)
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you're concerned, if you have a problem...in fact I was just talking to my pastor about that this morning. People coming into your neighborhood from over across town telling me how to run my east side. Or people who have selfish motives for wanting to do things. If you have an agenda and you want to run for public office, get out there and do something! Make M: yourself visible doing something. You know. During election time names pop up, names you've never heard before. You know, where do they come from? Who are they? What? You know. What do they want? And this is fine that people want to get in the mix, they want to be a part of making things happen. But I think you need a track record of having done something, of making some kind of contribution. And coming to my worship service on Sunday morning when I want to throw off all the cares [laughter] of what has happened to me during the week, and I come to be fed, fed spiritually. I don't want you up there making any promises to me or telling me something. And you're coming in, I have no chance to have any dialogue with you at all. You understand what I'm saying?
H: Right. Yeah.
M: You're just coming and talking to me and then you leave. And I don't see you any more. If you don't win, I probably won't see you, and if you win, I may see you. You know. And that's the way I feel about it.Ethel Minor (Tape 1 of 1)
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H: So, you'd like to see them on a consequences and issues, rather than just showing up at church?
M: Right. This is why we have a political action committee. And, prior to any big election we always have a meet-the-candidates night; that's part of NAACP's program. We have a meet-the-candidates night. We invite the candidates to come and share their platform with us, and it M: depends on how many candidates we get to respond as to the kind of time. And we don't set it up as a debate. I don't...we don't pit one against the other; we don't say Democrats over here, Republicans over here. You all come, you know, whoever. And I think this last time, when was it? February?, I think we had forty-six candidates here. Uh-huh.
H: What is your membership in NAACP now?
M: We don't usually tell people what our membership is.
H: Is it better or...?
M: I...it's never good, as far as I'm concerned. We have over a thousand members, which isn't saying a lot.
H: How are doing getting the younger people into it?
M: We're getting younger people in through our Excel Program and through our Youth Council. Those - you know, working with high school. There are some college kids; well, you know, they come and they go. Hopefully, just through our, you know, Excel, our programs, I think we'll get the kids involved and...Ethel Minor (Tape 1 of 1)
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H: And then maybe they'll stay and take out memberships.
M: You know, like people have been NAACP some other place and then they come here. You know, they could be young adults and they're kind of brought up in [inauidible]... I've had people call and say, "I'm from such-and-such a place; I'd like to transfer my membership", or "I would like to, you know, join your organization and get to work." But we do need the younger people in here, because it's going to M: fall on their hands; they need to come in and see how things need to be going and learn how the program operates. Because you must operate within the parameters of our program.
H: You mentioned negative publicity about the national NAACP, like it's behind the times, it's deeply in debt, [inaudibale... Does any of that blow back on your chapter? People say...Well,...
M: Well, it could blow back on all the chapters. Well, we're branches.
H: Right, branches.
M: The chapters are college chapters. A lot of people don't know the difference; they call us chapters and we get this. We're branches all over. You have the Youth Council and you have your college chapters.
H: Okay.
M: Okay. That's the big difference there. I think Ethel Minor (Tape 1 of 1)
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anything that's done at a national level can hurt all the way across the board, because that's usually...that's just like you look at your president of these United States, you know, and everybody - well most people - form their own opinion, you know; you have your pros and cons. I won't vote for...get so-and-so out of the White House, you know, that kind of thing. So when you have a leader at the top like that, eyes are always focused there. And I think there is a lot of unhappiness. Well, like I said, this will be his M: second convention; we will be meeting in Chicago next month. And he just come on board prior to the convention last year. So, you know, I believe in giving a person a chance. Because I did not know the man. And I have been to many a convention, and he might have been on some program or something, I don't know. But, you know, you hear names and ...I knew he wasn't on the board, I knew I'd never seen his name.
H: He just came from nowhere, as far as you're concerned?
M: [laughter]
H: Okay. Let's shift to the local economy, and job access for minorities, for blacks. You also run the Job Bank - the office in which we're sitting now, as well as the local branch. How is employment doing for blacks?
M: Slow. Very slow.
H: What about access, as compared to thirty years ago? to Ethel Minor (Tape 1 of 1)
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all sorts of work?
M: We are getting a number of announcements for job vacancies. A lot of the requirements, we just don't have anybody, you know, in our bank as yet that meet a lot of the qualifications. And what I do, I try to network a lot of the times. Say, for instance, like this morning through the mail I got something for nineteen vacancies in the area of the chemistry field, engineering. And I made contacts with those persons in my organization - in our organization that had some outside...and when I say outside, outside of San M: Antonio, maybe...contact, that may be interested in coming in and applying for these. I get quite a number for the TV stations. Some, we have applications on file. We forwarded some of them; well, all that I have on file we forwarded to them. I only know of one young lady who was just recently hired by Clear Channel, Bob Cohen. I guess it's been about a month ago. They're very slow. Or sometimes I think maybe it's, you know, to say, "Well, we went to the NAACP, we're looking for blacks." Okay, just be honest. And I think a lot of it, a lot of the jobs we get, either they don't expect us to send them anyone qualified, you know. And a case in point, I had one company that was investigated and somehow they said they couldn't find blacks or they didn't have blacks or whatever, and we were asked about this and we...the records to show that we had sent Ethel Minor (Tape 1 of 1)
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blacks. So sometimes I think it's a sham, you know. They're using us to say, "Well, we sent it to the NAACP". And yet, no, all the time we cannot have somebody to send. In fact, I have a list there on my desk now - a young man, just came to San Antonio; I guess he's been here about a month or so. And I have it on my desk because I'm doing some checking. He's made about eleven applications to VIA, let's say six or seven applications to somebody. He just has a long list. Applications he's put in with the city. And he has a lot of qualifications, a lot of talent, you know, from his resume. But nobody has called.
H: How come?
M: You know. And so he told me the other day...in fact he came and we went through some things here and I...last one sent him out to Cable Car. And they only give you, like what - eighteen or twenty-nine hours, you know. Well, for somebody, that's all right I guess for a youngster, somebody that has another income or something like that. But anyway, the gentleman called me; he's on something temporarily. And it wasn't what he wanted, but he took it because he wanted to be employed. You know. And I think it was just a short-term something that they hired him for. But we run into this. During the summer we had opportunity to send a number of young people out to Sears, because they were hiring. I get applications from the Marriott, Transportation, that's Ethel Minor (Tape 1 of 1)
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another one the things this guy has X-number of things over at the Transportation, he's heard nothing. You know, we need to do some follow-up on these kinds of things. So sometimes I think it's a scam, you know, say, "Well, we sent it, but, you know, we just couldn't find anyone; they didn't send us anyone". But we do keep a record, you know, of the person that we send and the kinds of jobs. We get jobs from the University of Texas, Alamo Community College District, and we have had some responses.
H: But the type of jobs, surely, are more open than they were in the '40s and '50s.
M: Oh, yes, yes. You can find something else besides M: labor.
H: Right. Or housekeeping or...
M: Housekeeping.
H: ...cooking or something like that.
M: Yeah. The opportunity is there. And I guess one of the things is because those opportunities were not open to Blacks. A lot of the technological kinds of positions that blacks weren't into those kinds of things. Or to get the number of years experience that would be required. There was no future here, you know. They didn't even think about that kind of work.
H: Or if they did, they left town.
M: Yeah. Ethel Minor (Tape 1 of 1)
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M: Or the kids would go off to college and they'd learn something; they'd go where they could make some money. You know.
H: There've been two major projects near the east side. One of them was HemisFair '68.
M: I'll never forget that.
H: Tell me about it. How did that affect East San Antonio?
M: It was a happening. Let's say that. A revival. There was a spirit, I guess, that you just don't see too often. I guess it was the excitement, because nothing that big... [laughter]...had been here in such a long time.
H: Right.
M: As far as that was concerned.
H: And we had our very own World's Fair.
M: Yes, and it was like...it was just something unreal. And I can remember so well, because my daughter even worked during that time. And it was so exciting. You know, they had these uniforms, and I guess I was down there every night. And I'd, you know, go to this thing just...you could just spend it...it was just the most fantastic thing I'd ever seen.
H: I also remember there was some fear because of the uprisings in Detroit and other cities, that there might be some black protest here, and it never happened.Ethel Minor (Tape 1 of 1)
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M: No, I don't know, yeah. Anytime something happened somewhere else, and sometimes you can plant fear or you can plant ideas into people's head. That's like when the Rodney King thing happened, you know. People just started calling here and you know, and I was... I did, I made it a point to be with the chief of police at that time, you know, because we hated...we didn't want to see anything like that occur here. Since the O.J. Simpson thing, I have gotten repeated calls, "What's your stance on it?" I said, "Well, we haven't taken a stance." You know. What's the national office going to do? Or what have you done to counter...? I haven't done anything. [laughter] You know.
H: Man's just been charged; he hasn't been tried or convicted.
M: Well, the media is convicting him. Television, the prosecutor, and you know, whatever; I just think they've overplayed it, that's my thing. And if he's guilty, and they finally prove that he's guilty, then he has to serve his time or do whatever...like take his punishment like anybody else, you know. But they just - because of his celebrity status, they just...and he's black. Also if that woman had been black, you wouldn't have seen all this publicity. If his ex-wife had been black, you wouldn't have seen all that publicity.
H: You don't think so?Ethel Minor (Tape 1 of 1)
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M: Uh-huh, I sure don't.
H: An All-American football player, a TV personality, movie star.
M: I don't think so. I don't think so.
H: Um. Could be.
M: I don't think so. And it was two whites.
H: Yeah.
M: The man too. And we don't know why. We know nothing. You know. So, I don't take sides because...I just hope he's not guilty. I feel sorry for her. I know nothing about the man. I don't know what transpired. So how can I judge, what can I say? You just hope...I just pray that the guy is innocent, you know, and whoever did it, they find the killer. If it's him, he's going to have to pay for what he did and you can't...whatever's done you're not going to M: bring the two persons back.
H: Right.
M: But if it had been black on black, it never would have been that kind of publicity. Like I say, why was it necessary to bring into the ball games and all this kind of stuff, to show him driving down the highway? It kept talking about a chase. There wasn't a chase, as far as I was concerned.
H: That was the slowest speed chase I've ever seen.
M: Ah, thirty-five miles an hour! And they blocked off Ethel Minor (Tape 1 of 1)
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the thing and just driving. Now, if it was a chase, seemingly somebody would have been at high speed. By the way they were going and all the room that was around them, somebody would have closed in on them and stopped the chase, wouldn't they?
H: It was strange.
M: It's a strange, strange thing.
H: Just to jump back to HemisFair, did you see any lasting economic impact in this area? From the Fair. Or was it because it was the other side of the expressway?
M: Well, everything kind of stays over on that side. The only thing that they thought they were doing, something is to do St. Paul Square. And that has not really benefited black folks, as far as I'm concerned. [inaudible phrase] ...all that stuff down there, and you have, I think, a few offices have moved in there. Lou Nell [Sutton] had her M: office in there when she was in there. And I forget, some engineering firm's in there. You have the Razz Club downstairs. And you have the Mexican restaurant. But everything else is dead.
H: What happened to the Ethiopian Restaurant? That's been gone sometime.
M: She had...that's my daughter-in-law...that was my daughter-in-law. Well, she won't let me call her daughter ...she says, "You're my momma". But, no, she stopped Ethel Minor (Tape 1 of 1)
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cooking and she has the thing...in fact, she had both of them going, and she closed the one upstairs.
H: Well, now you have the Alamodome on this side of the expressway. Do you expect any sort of economic development will spread from it?
M: I don't know if it is...I don't know what it is going to be.
H: Supposedly, another hotel or maybe two. Some talk of a hotel on Cherry Street.
M: When is that going... I mean, you know, not unless the builders employ some black folks [inaudible]. When they're talking about concessions, now I know...and the Dome, right now we're talking about the Dome. I know a lady who's had the devil in the concession area. And I know one night we were sitting in there, and I looked at Sue and I said, "Golly, they look good". You know. They had on black and white striped shirts, and they were clean - that's the M: number one thing, they were clean. I guess that's why I looked at 'em. I caught them. And one night this lady came and she sat beside me and said, "Those...I have a concession here." And I said, "Yeah? What is it?" She said, "You see those guys over there in the black and white?" And I said, "Yeah". We were sitting here commenting, you know, how nice. She said, "Those are mine." In fact, during the first of the play-off games, she calledEthel Minor (Tape 1 of 1)
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up here and asked me to send her some people down there to work...
END OF TAPE 1, SIDE 1, ABOUT .. MINUTES.
TAPE I, SIDE 2.
H: ...concessions, do you know why? Or did she lose the concession or...?
M: Well, she was in there as far as the play-offs, you know, the two little games that they had; she was still there.
H: Yeah, short play-off season.
M: Yeah, short play-off season. But I don't know if she had to go through this ARA. I guess the restaurant thing or whatever it is...
H: No, the Spurs essentially own the concessions.
M: Uh-huh. And they let it out. But I haven't seen her. I haven't heard anybody get any big benefits out of the Dome. Even we, as season ticket holders, don't get any benefits anymore. [laughter]
H: You're getting higher prices - higher food prices, drink prices. What about the black people who don't live on the east side? Do you hear from them? Do they come in?
M: Yes. Yes. A lot of my...a lot of the officers, board members, do not live on this side of town. Some of them live way out. I think, let's see, the fartherest...I think my treasurer lived way out there on Encino Drive. You know,Ethel Minor (Tape 1 of 1)
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way out; it's a far piece.
H: Yeah.
M: Some of them live out by Lackland. Out by Walzem. They just live all over San Antonio.
H: They live all over San Antonio. Do you think that's affected this area with the loss of community, the loss of togetherness?
M: It has. It has lost its strength as far as voting and getting things, because we've lost that.
H: Well, you've lost the numbers.
M: You've lost the numbers. I know this came up when we did the redistricting, you know. Blacks are moving farther this way, like Converse, Kirby and out in those areas. Like companies and they've moved down here, where the telephone people moved down from St. Louis, you know. When they take them...they don't bring them over here and show them houses and things on the East Side, whoever is responsible for that. They're going to take them as far north as they can. You know. Some people called...I've had people call and say, "Where are the black folks in San Antonio"? Because they had been in this area, you know, and when I say this, the north side area, and they do not, you know. They ask, "Where are your churches?" I've just invited any number of people to my church or to tell them about other churches or tell them about our organizations. They said, "Where are Ethel Minor (Tape 1 of 1)
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the black this or the black that"? And I can understand why. Because they can go to the north side; and they can pay, and get much better accommodations than they can over here. And some of the same builders over there need to come over on the east side, clean up some of the trash that's over here, or fix up some of the homes that they have over here for black folks, or for anybody who wanted to move into...this isn't a black neighborhood! This is the east side! And fix up decent housing, so anyone will want to come. Look how they did the King William area down there. And look, when they made it inviting, didn't you see people moving back to that area?
H: Right.
M: And this is what we need to do for the east side. Get some of these builders to realize that, you put decent homes over here, people will be glad to come over here. You know. H: Yeah.
M: And most of the people you were asking me about, they come to church over here, they come to the barbershops over here, you know. They have friends and family over here. M: So, they belong to organizations that meet over here.
H: But they don't live here?
M: But they don't live here.
H: That's because the housing is not suitable, I guess, for their income.Ethel Minor (Tape 1 of 1)
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M: It's not suitable for their income. And they can...in a sense I guess it's an advantage to live there. They have better schools. You know? Well, they think that. Like they're fussing about this TAASS testg. Well, the people on the north side or northeast, or whatever it is - the Judson District - if they feel that those kids are doing better, then they need to look at the San Antonio Independent School District. You know. Don't fight the test, or whatever is going on, but look at and see if everybody's getting the same thing.
H: Right.
M: And that will settle that right there.
H: How is the school drop-out rate? Do you keep track of that among blacks?
M: Oh, when was that? Year before last, I remember, Commissioner Meno, when he was here, talked about the school drop-outs. And I believe it was the latter part of last year, or early part of this year, when they started talking...they came back - Mr. Sosa, who is on his board -had another meeting over here at Region 20, and is supposed to be coming up with an alternative program for those drop-M: outs. And at the time, I think they said sixty-five or sixty-seven kids had registered at that time, but he didn't have an ethnic breakout on it. I guess, probably, the Hispanic and Black drop-out rate...and I would think that Ethel Minor (Tape 1 of 1)
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the Hispanic drop-out rate is higher than the Blacks. Because of their population, the number.
H: What do you see as the main problems? Not just in this area, but in San Antonio? All of San Antonio?
M: What? Come again.
H: What do you see as the main problems of the city and of this area of town?
M: [laughter] The main problem. The main problem. The main problem right now is crime. And that's a great concern. Drive-by shootings...
H: Youth crimes.
M: Youth crimes. Uh-huh. What's happening to the family. The family structure is just...it's not there. You don't have that close-knit like they used to have. Where families could...where you could help rear your neighbors' kids.
H: Right.
M: Or you could chastise them. And you dare say anything they might turn around and shoot you. Or they might turn around and curse you out. You know. Where, in our times, you couldn't do that. You know. That's one thing like they say about the African tribes, you know - the village is the family.
H: Right.
M: You know. Just last week there was a bunch of kids running in here, and I said, "Where are you supposed to be Ethel Minor (Tape 1 of 1)
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over here?" This lady and I was standing at the door. And they said, " No, we're supposed to be..." And I said, "Well, why don't you go on out there?" 'Cause some kids [inaudible], "I'll go get my gun." I said, "I'll be your gun". Little ole kid, like that, he couldn't have been no more than seven or eight years old. Uh-huh. He said, "I'll go get my gun". I said, "You go get your gun. I'll be your gun". And he went on back out there to play. But...
H: That's scary, though, just to hear that.
M: Yeah! Uh-huh. From a kid. And I told the lady, well, the young ladies that ran in here, we went to the door and said, "Somebody out there had a gun". And the lady that works at the desk and I was standing there at the door because we were looking and I don't know if it was her imagination. The lady asked her, "Did you really see the gun"? She said, "No, but he had something in his pocket". You know. Well, the two young ladies were still in this building, and here come all these little boys running. We didn't let them come through the door. We said, "Where you all supposed to be out there playing? Go back over there." You know. "This isn't a playroom". And this is when the little boy said, "I'll go get my gun".
H: But they were apparently scared off. They thought H: somebody had a gun and that's why they were running over here?Ethel Minor (Tape 1 of 1)
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M: That's what the little girl did, uh-huh, that came in here. But, you know, that's frightening. As you drive down the streets, you know, is somebody going to shoot at you? Not too long ago they said if you see somebody's lights on, you know, don't blink your light, because you'll get shot. Or you think you drive in your driveway, somebody's going to get you, or somebody might not like you, might come out and start shooting at you. You know.
H: They might want your car.
M: And it's...yeah, car-jacking! That's scary! And I guess I'm particularly cautious because I get a number of threatening things here.
H: You get threatened by phone calls or writings?
M: Phone calls, mostly. And, see, a lot of people know me and I don't know people. A lot of people say, "Why haven't I seen you on television?" Well, I just used my best judgment and took my face off of television. Because, well, I was doing it for membership appeal, and any number of times, "Oh, you're that lady's on television; you're that lady. Oh, I saw you on television". And like those people who don't mean any harm at all, you've got your dissident out there that says, "Oh, that's that lady". And they can spot me and I don't know who they are. You know. I don't know where my enemy is.
H: Yeah, you think the threateners are white or black, or Ethel Minor (Tape 1 of 1)
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some of each?
M: They were white.
H: White.
M: Yeah, they were white. Because when they first started it really got bad. I had to have the telephones monitored. And then the FBI came in. Uh-huh. Yeah. And the police got the tapes and everything. Uh-huh. And they know who did it, you know - they won't tell me, but they know who did it.
H: Have they arrested him? Talked to him? Or do you know?
M: No. I don't know. And here lately it started again. And I guess, it must have been after that O.J Simpson thing. And they were calling and said that I should get off the television, stay off the television. And you know, kind of obscene language and other things. And one of the guys said, "It's a shame that you have to sit here and listen, you know". And I'd come in and turn on the recorder. And I guess I've got tough to it now. You know. It doesn't bother me, but I'm very conscious...
H: Well, that's certainly wise.
M: Yeah. And they tell us at National, you know, wherever we go, we're supposed to let somebody in our family know where we are at all times. They do screen our mail, packages; they screen packages for us. Even at my house andEthel Minor (Tape 1 of 1)
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M: here. And not only just for me, but, you know,...
H: The FBI does?
M: ...Post office. Post office. Uh-huh. Because of the bombs and things that have been sent through the mail to NAACP presidents.
H: Sick.
M: Yeah, they're sick people. I had a gentleman call me this morning. He'd been to a little town out from here and one of his relatives was in trouble. And he was asking if it was something about a black attorney - no, it was a black policeman - and he said, "No, they never had any, never, no, they don't have any, never had any, and never will". You know. And the guy was just saying... And this time you just didn't believe people talk like that. You know. People. I said, " Well, I don't know where you've been, sir!" [laughter But they are like that. And he was calling me, looking for an attorney this morning. And, it's a lot of sickos out there. And some of my folks are sick too! Some of my folks are sick. So, one lady said, "Somebody's been shooting a laser in my house". And I said, "Well, call the police". And she said, "Okay, thank you". And she hung up. I had a lady call me one night at 1:30 in the morning, said somebody was doing shooting stuff at her house and spraying something on her house and all this kind of stuff, and listening to what she was saying through the Ethel Minor (Tape 1 of 1)
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walls. And I told her to call the police. And she said, M: "They aren't going to do anything!" I said, "What can I do at 1:30 in the morning?" [laughter] It's interesting, Mr. Holmesly, I tell you, it's an interesting thing. But I think the east side is finally coming alive. You know? We just got the new Luby's over here, and it's been so crowded I haven't even had the opportunity to go over there and eat yet.
H: Well, how's the New Braunfels Corridor idea coming along? Whatever happened to...?
M: That kind of died out. They were talking about the bridge, the arch?
H: Yeah. Well, and then from south of the bridge, down Houston, they were going to try to bring in some new businesses there; they were going to clean up the area at the south gate to Fort Sam Houston and build a hotel there, and that never happened.
M: Never. I hadn't heard nothing about it. What they need to get off of this east side...is these darn pawn shops. Because they not doing anything - the pawn shops, antique shops - they're nothing but fronts for these thieves. That's all they are. I know persons who have lost stuff to these shops. Who have been in, identified their stuff in these shops and they can't get it. They've been reported to the police and all this kind of stuff. And theyEthel Minor (Tape 1 of 1)
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move in here, and these people know it, and they just go in here and sell that stuff. I think they need to clear all M: that stuff out of here. Or they need to really investigate some of these areas. Pawn shops and antique shops.
H: They're trafficking in stolen goods.
M: They're trafficking in stolen goods, that's what it is! Uh-huh, uh-huh. And that's aiding and abetting.
H: It sure is. Anything we haven't talked about that you'd like to go over?
M: What about the black churches?
H: Tell me about it.
M: No. They're becoming very integregated in our community. That makes a difference. I think people are... more young people are turning towards Christianity, or turning towards the church. And that's one of the things that maybe...there's no where else to go. You know. So we come back to the Lord.
H: You say they're more integregated. Whites? Browns? Everybody?
M: Uh-huh.
H: Coming back to the Lord, do you think that...?
M: Well, I mean, the younger people, I'm saying. And then the churches are being integrated, two different things. H: Right.Ethel Minor (Tape 1 of 1)
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M: I know in my church we have a couple of Anglo ladies in the choir, an Hispanic lady in the choir. Well, any number of people that...we have a white minister, an associate M: pastor, associate minister.
H: Is he any good?
M: I haven't heard him. [laughter] I haven't heard him. See, I'm gone so much he's just...I haven't been gone...I guess he must have come in the first part of the year and... But we have our church; we have one young Hispanic man who's on trial for deacon. And, I mean, they're in there working and not just there. You know.
H: Well, that's great.
M: It is. And New Mount Pleasant, I think, has an integrated church. But a lot of these churches around here... And not only just the East Side, I think all over San Antonio. And the same thing with the other churches that living way out here, I think half of their membership is Black. You know. So I think we've...in some instances we're breaking down barriers; you know, the religious community is breaking down some barriers.
H: Well, that's interesting. There's a...maybe there's a new sense of community being formed...
M: Could be.
H: ...that is color-blind?
M: Uh-huh, uh-huh. Ethel Minor (Tape 1 of 1)
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H: Even though a lot of blacks don't live here, they come to church here, and other people go to churches.
M: Uh-huh. You know when we started...oh, I guess a couple of years ago, we had a young man at our church who M: was a TI [training instructor] out at Fort Sam. And he would bring his whole company, you know, whenever the new guys would come in. And I think that was really the beginning of our influx of other persons, of other races, coming in. Regardless to who was in the squadron, they were there. They even formed a choir at Fort Sam. I've even forgot the name of the choir, but they were...when they'd go out and sing, they'd always say that I'm part of Antioch. And this young man is moved now. But some of those guys, you know, you still see them - well, some of them joined. Our pastor baptised any number of those young persons, and like they said, they were being here for X-number of months of training and they'd never been baptised before. You know. And that was something, to see them being baptised.
H: Do you see the day when a white person or a Hispanic could run for city council office in this district, and win, on issues? You know, politics and churches have changed.
M: Why not? Do you see a black going to another district and winning?
H: I think it's entirely possible.
M: I think so too. Why does counci district 2 have to be Ethel Minor (Tape 1 of 1)
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a designated council slot for blacks? Maybe a long time ago that was the thing - that was the only way that a black could have gotton on there. But I think those times have changed. Now that once you get into a community, you should become a part of that community, if you want to really M: assimilate. Okay? And, like I say, be visible, just like I'm saying about those other politicians coming to my church. When blacks move to the other parts of the city, that's their community, then you get involved in whatever is going on there. Then if they so choose that they want to run, I think they should be given the same opportunity that anyone else has to represent that district.
H: Again, on the accomplishments and issues. And not...
M: That's right. That's right. Not on color.
H: [inaudible] ...job... Yeah, not on color.
M: That's right. Qualifications! And I think that the sooner we realize that, we can get along. There are going to be differences as long as there are people. And I would not like to see it any other way. I certainly would think it would be a terrible world if all of us thought the same thing and we did the same thing. The diversity is what makes it so beautiful.
H: It would be pretty boring, wouldn't it?
M: It would be very boring. And I don't think we'd want to hang around long. So that we need to respect each other Ethel Minor (Tape 1 of 1)
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as individuals. We need to respect one another's culture. I wouldn't want to see anybody give up their culture. Just be yourself. You know. And we're enjoying all of the culture that's here in San Antonio. I like to go out and eat Mexican food. I don't mind eating Italian food. You know. People come over here, they like our food, you know - M: soul food, they call it. You know we've got a new cafe up here, off of Commerce - Norman's - which you want some good Creole food, you go up there. You know. So we have a lot of cultures and we should learn how to enjoy those cultures.
H: Right.
M: Just like when you go to another city. You know you don't eat the same stuff or go to the same place. You try something different.
H: That's...I hate to travel with people who say, "This isn't like home".
M: You're not at home.
H: Well, why go if you won't taste their culture and do something different?
M: Do something different. You know. That's what makes life interesting. Even with the changes, there's so much more that can be done. I'm working with a group now - we call it the Black-Jewish Program. Well, this is the way it started out, because NAACP had come up the program, Black Ethel Minor (Tape 1 of 1)
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and Jew Relations, to come up with projects and things to kind of bring us together in areas.
H: Well,...
M: And we've been working on some things on that line.
H: Is that helping? Has there been a great deal of black and Jewish or black conflict?
M: I don't think we've had that here.
H: Like in New York and other places.
M: No, I don't think we've had it here. But whether we have or not, we don't...you don't need it to start.
H: Right. Just head it off.
M: You need to do some positive things, because that negative, you know, can come, and it might be some. I don't know. Like I have a lot of - Rabbi Stahl and Mr. Reverend, Mrs. Jacobson - they're all like members of our organization. You know. And I have a lot of people - Congressman Tejeda, golden heritage member.
H: Bill Sinkin.
M: ...Bob Green, Sinkin, all of them life-members in this organization. And that was way before my time! You know. And it was something that drew me in. I don't know whether it was pressure, whether it was, you know, through G.J. or A.C. or whoever was before me,...
H: Maybe they thought it was the right thing to do.
M: Right thing to do. You know. So, I don't know, but Ethel Minor (Tape 1 of 1)
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they're still active and, in fact, I talked to the lady that's working for Mrs. Jacobson now, and she said everytime she sees my picture, she says, " There's my friend". And I'll tell her, "Well, I saw their picture in the paper not too long ago". And you know, I'd ask her how is Rabbi doing? You know. And she'd say they're doing just fine. You know. So we keep up with one another. And I know when we first had the meeting, it was an attorney in this M: meeting, and I told him...I knew him by his name, I could have cared less about his nationality. And it never dawned on me, that never crossed my mind. I just knew him as an attorney.
H: Uh-huh.
M: Real good person. Real nice person. And I've been knowing him since 1968. You know. And we're still friends. But I don't know, I guess it's something I just really never think about. You know. And when I was working this lady - well, she was a Jew - and I didn't think about it, because she was married to somebody else, and I think if we just cut that portion out... I like you because I like you as an individual.
H: Uh-huh.
M: Not because you're white and not because I'm black, but because we have things in common. We can talk about things, we can share some things, you know. Ethel Minor (Tape 1 of 1)
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H: Who, rather than what.
M: Yeah.
H: Yeah. Absolutely.
M: And I think in time we're going to see some change. And you're seeing a little bit of it now. I talked to a young man in my office this morning; I recommend him to go to camp "Any Child". In fact I've sent any number of young black kids - boys and girls. And it's been such an experience for them. And this young man, everytime he sees M: me, he says, " Oh, that was the best day". And he said in there this morning, he wanted to show me his evaluation, you know, that they send back. But that's something wonderful that the National Conference of Christian and Jews have this camp "Any Child". And this is the first year that they've had two camps. They usually have one camp. And then they had more kids. I have not seen anything about that in the paper. And I don't know why they don't publish it. But this young man had just...and you can only go once. You know, that's all you're allowed to go. And he had told me that they had asked him to come back as a counselor next year. And he's just excited about it. And he wanted to tell me that he'd talked to the director and they were getting ready to have party or something and bring them all together.
H: Great.Ethel Minor (Tape 1 of 1)
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M: He says, we've been keeping in touch ever since we left there. And these are people - young people, high school kids, you know, of various groups. And they just...this camp is something; it was...it is an inter-racial kind of thing because when I was there the first day is chaotic. You know. And they put different signs on them, and say different things. You know. Antagonistic kinds of things. But as the week goes on, you know, it eases up, the tension drops. And by the last night, they have this camp-out. I mean the tears start flowing; the kids don't want to leave, M: they just want to stay. You know. So it really does something for them, this integregated. And if we can keep those kinds of things going. You know. There is some hope! You know.
H: Right. What's the old song from South Pacific, "You've Got To Be Taught To Hate".
M: Uh-huh, uh-huh.
H: Maybe we can stop teaching that.
M: Yep. If we can get the family back together, and I think that will certainly help a lot because the schools are suffering from that. We've put such a load on our teachers, as far as the discipline problems, and all that kinds of stuff. We expect the teachers to do everything.
H: We're almost out of tape.
M: Good. [laughter])Ethel Minor (Tape 1 of 1)
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H: Do you have any concluding remarks or do you...?
M: No. I just hope that I can continue to be a part of whatever is good for the San Antonio community, including the east side!
H: Well, I think you've already made a significant contribution. Thank you for your time!
M: Thank you.
END OF TAPE 1, SIDE 2, ABOUT .. MINUTES.