THE INSTITUTE OF TEXAN CULTURES
Oral History Office
SUBJECT: Hungarians
INTERVIEW WITH: Christine Nagy East, Louis & Edie Nagy
DATE: 27 May 1986
PLACE:
INTERVIEWER: Patrick McGuire
TAPE I of 2, SIDE 1
C – Christine Nagy East
L – Louis Nagy
E – Edie Nagy
M – Patrick McGuire
M: ...[inaudible] May 27th, 1986, interview Mr. and Mrs. Louis Nagy and Mrs. Christine East on the history of the Joe Nagy Family and of the Hungarian families who were cotton farmers around Corsicana. Why do you think that the families who came in around Corsicana continued to farm? You say that they were flax farmers in Europe?
.: Uh-huh.
M: And...
.: In fact, we have some linens that were woven from the flax that grew on their farm.
M: These linens that you have, you did show them to me the last time, I believe...
.: No, we didn’t show you the linens; she’ll probably Christine Nagy, Louis & Edie Nagy 2
.: show them to you today.
M: All right. These linens are...could possibly be exhibited in a show at the Institute that would, say, run for a year or two. Do you think...well, we borrow items from families and we insure them – oh, look at that!
.: Well, these are things I gave them some time ago and...
M: Uh-huh.
.: And I’m sure that they’d be perfectly willing to have them shown.
M: Oh, yeah. This would be delightful because it would show some of the domestic things in people’s lives and along with linens any needlework and...
.: Let’s see what I wrote; I don’t remember what I wrote. M: Okay. There we go. Aren’t these beautiful. You know, when you think of Hungarian folk art you think of beautiful needlework and things like that.
.: Here’s some more of them.
M: Oh, look at this. These are mainly plain towels and sheets made by Hungarian ancestors in Hungary by the flax they raised, and they brought them over to Texas when they came in here. And these would be delightful items to show along with that goose feather comforter you were telling me about.
.: ...Got them out, too.
L: We got them out...[inaudible].
M: We’ll look at that in just a moment. Things like these Christine Nagy, Louis & Edie Nagy 3
M: would be just beautiful in an exhibit.
.: See the way they made these?
M: Those look like pillow shams.
.: They are.
.: Are they the ones that had the homemade buttons on them?
.: No.
.: I think...did I give you the baby pillowcase?
.: I think so.
.: Well, now it has homemade buttons on it, I think.
.: Are these homemade buttons?
M: Now these pillowcases...
.: No, they were wire with thread woven through.
M: ...were made by Elizabeth Nagy who was the wife of Joe Nagy.
.: Yes.
M: And her maiden name was Szenasy.
.: Uh-huh.
M: Okay. These are beautiful. Those pins ought to be checked every once in a while. You know, they have a propensity to rust.
.: I know that; I’ve had that happen to me. I’ve had that happen to me.
L: Yeah, you’re right.
M: And these are sheets? Boy, these are huge, aren’t they? Uh-huh. But look at that linen.Christine Nagy, Louis & Edie Nagy 4
.: I have a cup towel in there somewhere.
M: And...
.: ...besides this one.
M: Okay.
.: Let’s see if I can find it.
M: And you say that your mother made a quilt for you all when you got married? Or...
L: Yeah, we’ll show that to you.
M: Was this sort of a tradition that was handed down in the family to make this type of goose feather quilt for each child when they married?
.: Incidentally, those feathers came from Europe – or the down. They are not feathers – it’s down – came from Europe also.
M: All right. Uh-huh. Oh, look at this! Oh, don’t you know that’s hot. Beautiful...
.: She asked...[inaudible] what he wanted on it.
M: Uh-huh.
.: This is that slipper satin.
M: Yes, uh-huh.
.: And he said he wanted the State of Texas, so she got a road map and put that on there and then she put the...
L: Star – I mean arrowheads.
.: …Arrowheads on it for him.
M: Arrowheads and the outline of the State of Texas.
.: Uh-huh.Christine Nagy, Louis & Edie Nagy 5
M: And this was made by...
.: She worked every one of these buttonholes.
L: By hand.
M: By hand.
.: Uh-huh.
M: And this was made by Elizabeth Nagy?
L: That’s right.
.: Elizabeth Szenasy Nagy.
M: All right. And she made one for you and one for all of your brothers and sisters?
.: She made one for me, too, but I gave mine to my sister.
M: Uh-huh. Let me help you with that.
L: I got it. Okay. It’s a little bulky.
.: And this is the one she made for our grandson – our son – her grandson.
M: Oh, look at that! That’s a small version...
.: Crib size, yes.
M: Okay. The quilting is covered by a beautiful – looks like cotton – is that cotton or linen?
.: It’s sheeting.
M: Sheeting.
.: Well, yeah, it does look kind of like it has...
M: It sure does feel like linen.
.: It feels like linen.
M: It really is linen, I think.
.: That other is sheeting. Christine Nagy, Louis & Edie Nagy 6
M: Uh-huh. That’s linen.
L: See, they can take these off and wash them and put them back on.
M: Uh-huh.
L: That’s the purpose.
.: Keeps the chin...
M: I’ve seen pictures of Hungarian houses – the interior of Hungarian houses - and usually they had these folded up on a chest along a wall.
L: Uh-huh.
M: In the house. And another thing that always amazed me was the beautiful handwork, the embroidery work, that went into, not only towels and sheeting, but in dresses and aprons and things like that.
.: Well, that’s one thing that they really trained their daughters to do.
M: Uh-huh.
.: ...[inaudible] Also [inaudible] this is a dictionary – English and Hungarian.
M: I don’t even have one of those.
.: Christine, I believe this is a poetry book, isn’t it?
C: I don’t know what it is.
E: Well, I looked this up in that book that I bought, that ...[inaudible].
C: Uh-huh.
E: And it says Live Theater. [inaudible]. Christine Nagy, Louis & Edie Nagy 7
C: Uh-huh.
E: And I wondered if it could be poetry – do you have anybody to translate for you?
M: Yes, there are some Hungarians in San Antonio that oftentimes will do a little work for me. And this has the date 1910, July something 1910, and I’m not sure what that name is but it could be translated. It may be the place where he was living.
E: We don’t know what this is - it has all that information there, whatever it is.
M: This date on this book is 1882 – 1822 – this is quite early.
E: Uh-huh.
M: Well, these would make delightful exhibit items. It looks like an almanac.
E: Is that what it is?
M: The way some of it’s arranged – yeah.
E: Well now, see, and in the back over here – I’ll bet that’s what it is – see, all the months.
M: Uh-huh. I’ll bet this is...yeah, this is an almanac of some sort.
E: December.
M: Goes right through December and even though I don’t read Hungarian that’s what I’d say it was.
E: Now I think that might be poetry or something. You know, when I think about how we look through these things Christine Nagy, Louis & Edie Nagy 8
E: and we don’t know what they say, and then it’s... I have a lot of respect for the people that came over here, not knowing how to speak a word of English or understand it or anything. And what they had to go through to learn.
M: I think it would be worth it to get the handwriting in Hungarian translated – February 1909 – that’s as far as I can get on it. Just to see, you know, somebody scribbling little notes to themselves about something. Here’s a date – May 1886 – and just see what they were saying.
E: Uh-huh.
M: I could take these and Xerox that...pages and get them to a translator and get them back to you - if you want me to do that sort of thing. I’ve got several ladies that would be glad to do that. And since it’s not extensive work, they can simply identify it and give us a translation on it. And – let’s see – my tape recorder is still going here. I was going to ask you to tell me, Louis, about your father and his experience in cotton farming, starting out at the very beginning up in Navarro County and that area. And why he got into that and how many acres he had under cultivation, how many bales he made?
L: Well, I...at that time I was just about four years old when Dad was farming in Corsicana so...
M: Yeah.
L: Consequently, I do not know too much other than hearing the family talk.Christine Nagy, Louis & Edie Nagy 9
M: Uh-huh.
L: And as I recall, I was told that he had a hundred and ten colored women chopping cotton at one time, plus twenty walking cultivators.
M: Uh-huh.
L: And as I told you before, he would get these colored fellows out of the county farm, which was a small brick enclosure where they kept these fellows, but Dad would... made a deal with the Navarro County where he could hire some of these fellows to work.
M: Uh-huh.
L: And these fellows that came from this farm enclosure, Mother would feed them at the noon...their noon meal.
M: That was a lot of cooking, wasn’t it?
L: Well, it...
.: Just a few... [inaudible].
L: Just the prisoners.
M: Yeah.
L: That’s the only ones that he fed – I mean, she fed. And one of those prisoners was a rather small fellow and he fed me every day – I sat in his lap and he fed me my noon meal. And when my father was killed in 1929 – well, this and another fellow was at the funeral.
M: Is that right?
L: And that really thrilled me to see...
M: Uh-huh.Christine Nagy, Louis & Edie Nagy 10
L: ...this man at my Dad’s funeral. And as best as I can recall, one check for cotton that he produced on this farm was fifty thousand dollars.
M: Uh-huh.
L: ...which was lots of money at that time.
M: A real fortune, wasn’t it?
L: It was a fortune.
M: Uh-huh.
L: And that’s when they moved – he and Mr. Witherspoon combined - and went to Dilley and bought that ranch there of forty-five hundred acres.
M: Forty-five hundred acres.
L: In Dilley.
M: And they were doing irrigated vegetable farming?
L: Onions and spinach – dry land spinach – irrigated onions...
M: Uh-huh.
L: ...and cotton farming.
M: Okay.
L: And watermelons and…when was it we had the storm down there? What year? 19-something. They were picking a bale of cotton to the acre until that storm hit, and then that was it.
M: Uh-huh.
L: And I don’t know exactly how many acres he farmed in Corsicana, and I don’t know whether anybody in the family Christine Nagy, Louis & Edie Nagy 11
L: really knows.
M: Um. Well, did he own the land in Corsicana or just rent it?
L: It was rented.
M: Rented land.
L: Rented land.
M: So he first bought land when he went down around Dilley.
L: Around Dilly. That was the first purchased land that I know of.
M: All right.
C: Louis, he owned the farm in Corsicana.
L: He did?
C: Sure, he owned that land...[inaudible].
L: Well, I didn’t know, Christine.
C: He owned that farm in Corsicana, Honey; he’d been in there...[inaudible].
L: Okay. Okay.
C: Yeah, he may have rented when he first hit there, but they bought.
L: Well, I stand corrected.
C: Well, that was theirs.
L: Now that’s about all that I know, since I was so young – this is just stuff that I picked up from conversations among the family.
M: Your mother lived with the family until 1962 when she Christine Nagy, Louis & Edie Nagy 12
M: died?
L: That’s right.
M: I’m wondering whether – both your mother and your father being born in Hungary and being raised there – when they came over here, did they bring any customs with them, any folklore, any stories, that they passed on to their children? For example: Were they Catholics or were they Protestants?
L: They were Catholic.
M: They were Catholic, so did they continue to observe Hungarian religious holidays when they came over?
L: No, they...as far as I know, they did not.
.: They were so glad to become American citizens.
L: That’s right. In fact, they did not even speak Hungarian around the kids.
M: Is that right?
L: That’s right.
M: Didn’t teach you Hungarian?
L: No.
M: Were there any special ways that Christmas was observed in the home?
.: Just traditions.
L: Just traditions.
.: It wasn’t the traditional American, though, Louis.
L: The only Christmas that we kids knew, of course, Dad had a lots of hired hands – families – that lived on the L:Christine Nagy, Louis & Edie Nagy 13
place, and he would buy a box of apples - a box of oranges and five gallons of mixed candies.
M: Uh-huh.
L: And that was a sack for each family and distributed at Christmas time. And that about the only Christmas that we had.
M: Well, that was a big deal in those days.
L: It was.
M: Sure was. Were there any folktales that they’d like to tell you when you were little children about anything dealing with Hungary or...?
L: I never did hear of any of that.
.: ...[inaudible] awful lot of that.
M: I see. Uh-huh.
.: I don’t really think we did.
L: No, they didn’t. I’m quite sure of that.
M: You know, there’s been a lot published on Hungarian folklore that I want to see if any of it was transmitted to Texas with the families and repeated here, or how it would have changed once it came to America. But if it’s not in your family, maybe I’ll find it in some other families.
.: Well, now, if we read that book and found out what the folklore was, we might remember something – you might.
.: ...[inaudible]. As far as I know, there was nothing really brought over in that sense.
L: Well, when the brothers and sisters were growing up, we Christine Nagy, Louis & Edie Nagy 14
L: had a large front porch on the ranch house, and almost every weekend or every two or three weekends they would have a big dance. And the only thing I ever remember is Mother at one time, they got her to dance the csardas.
.: Uh-huh. And could she ever dance. Oh, she was a beautiful dancer. She was a large woman...
L: Uh-huh.
.: ...but I know Mother Szako has talked about how popular she was in Europe, because she was such a beautiful dancer - said the boys loved to dance with her.
M: Now tell me about the csardas.
L: Christine, you take over that.
C: Well, it’s just a native dance, and it’s a very fast dance.
M: Uh-huh.
E: Something like that Russian dance, isn’t it, Christine?
C: Sort of, yes. Uh-huh.
E: Where they...oh, they do a lot of...[inaudible].
C: It’s very physical, very.
.: It’s...[inaudible].
M: Uh-huh.
.: We like it filled with sweetened and creamed cottage cheese.
M: Uh-huh.
.: But now they...
.: ...[inaudible]. Christine Nagy, Louis & Edie Nagy 15
M: Now who are you talking about?
.: I’m talking about John...
M: Okay.
.: ...our grandfather.
M: All right.
.: Okay. Our grandmother was of nobility. She married John Nagy, and her family, the Botka Family, thought she had married beneath herself, and he was not accepted. So to prove himself, he educated himself after they had their first three children. And these children were the ones that died.
M: Uh-huh.
.: And then he became postmaster. And in that country that was a respected position, profession. But anyway, this story that she wants me to tell... After they came to Texas, to Rice, they had their own little vineyard, their own farm, and...
M: Where did they get the grape stocks?
.: I don’t know. I...
M: Was it Hungarian?
.: I don’t know.
M: Uh-huh.
.: But Granddad Nagy made his own wine, which he kept down in the cellar, and he would sneak down there periodically during the day for his little nips. He never did really get drunk, but he was kind of a little tipsy. And that would .:Christine Nagy, Louis & Edie Nagy 16
just really throw my grandmother, and every time he pulled this, well then she would take to her bed. And I can still see him kneeling down beside the bed trying to make up to her, you know. He would cry and try to make up – oh, she was a demon. I took my grandmother sort of this way. We all loved our granddaddy; he was precious. But Grandmother was one of those nasty-nice people, and you just tippy-toed in her house, you know. You didn’t touch anything because she was so clean.
M: And this is her dress that you have here? All right?
.: But I can still see my granddaddy – he had to pass... He would catch the inter-urban from Rice to Ennis, and he’d have to pass my school to get to our house. And he had this long pocketbook that folded about three times, and he’d usually make it about recess time, and, of course, I’d always see him and I’d run out to meet him while we were out on the playground, and he’d unfold that purse, you know, for a nickel or a dime and, of course, that was great. But we did love our granddad.
M: And you say that John and Christine Nagy never learned English?
.: No, they did not - neither one of them.
M: And she could not write either?
.: She could not read or write.
M: Uh-huh. Now, they came to Ennis about 1900?
.: Uh-huh.Christine Nagy, Louis & Edie Nagy 17
M: And what year did he die?
.: Um...
.: Just a minute.
M: Well…
.: I know when she died.
M: She died in what year?
.: She died in ’37.
M: So she lived in America for thirty-seven years and never learned to speak English. Well, how did they get along in the community? They were cotton farmers, right?
.: That’s right. Well, first of all, my uncle - the bachelor uncle - lived with them in Rice on the farm.
M: What was his name?
.: Mike.
M: Mike.
.: And he could speak English?
M: Okay.
.: And by using a lot of sign language they just got along.
M: If she went to town to buy staples at the store…
.: She didn’t. My grandfather did all of that.
M: Is that right?
.: Uh-huh.
M: What if she went to church, in what language was Mass conducted out there?
.: In English.Christine Nagy, Louis & Edie Nagy 18
M: But she just went to church.
.: That’s right.
M: Well, this is not unusual.
.: No.
M: Not unusual at all.
.: It’s happening today. . .[inaudible]. Right?
M: Well, when you went to visit your grandmother, you said you had to sort of tiptoe around and behave yourself? Did she…
.: She had beautiful carpets…
M: Uh-huh.
.: And she had this beautiful brass bed. But when she made that bed she used white cotton gloves to move the bed, because we don’t get fingerprints on the brass.
M: Uh-huh.
.: And to preserve the carpeting and to keep it from getting dirty, she would rip these white cotton-picking sacks and you know they’re long?
M: Yeah.
.: She’d make runners, everywhere anybody walked, you walked on those cotton-picking sacks.
M: Where did she get the carpets and the brass bed?
.: They bought them after they came to the States.
M: In Texas.
.: Uh-huh.
M: But she, being of the nobility, wanted everything fine Christine Nagy, Louis & Edie Nagy 19
M: and beautiful, things like that? Boy!
.: And really, the kids did not enjoy going to their house, because of her, not because of my grandfather; we loved him.
M: Right.
.: He was cute; he was full of stories.
M: I don’t think I’ve ever seen her picture or photograph of her.
.: I don’t think we have any. I’m...don’t know. I’m going to go through my stuff and see what I have.
M: So she made him go through. . .[inaudible] to drink his wine?
.: Oh, absolutely.
M: Uh-huh.
.: The only thing that I can remember that my grandmother did that pleased me, she made her own hominy.
M: Uh-huh.
.: And she kept a ladle in this crock jar with the homemade hominy, and she would let me haul that hominy. But you didn’t eat cookies in the house, you know; the kid things you just didn’t do.
M: And they lived around Ennis then, huh?
.: Well, they later moved to Ennis, but this was out at the farm at Rice.
M: In Rice. Uh-huh. Does the family still own the farm or do you know?Christine Nagy, Louis & Edie Nagy 20
.: No.
M: Uh-huh. Goodness. . . [inaudible] San Antonio.
.: We could just go on and on and on.
M: Well, you never know when you’re going to. . .
.: Well, you just keep remembering little things.
END OF SIDE 1, TAPE 1.
SIDE 2.
[NOT TRANSCRIBED, SINCE NOT PART OF PATRICK McGUIRE’S
HUNGARIAN INTERVIEW. THE FOLLOWING SUBJECT NOT KNOWN]
.: . . . we’re delighted to have you here tonight to close the series we’ve had on Texas 2000. THE INSTITUTE OF TEXAN CULTURES
Oral History Office
SUBJECT: Hungarian-Texans
INTERVIEW WITH: Christine Nagy East, Louis & Edie Nagy
DATE: 19 June 1986
PLACE:
INTERVIEWER: Patrick McGuire
TAPE I, SIDE 2
[SIDE 1 NOT PART OF HUNGARIAN-TEXAN INTERVIEW]
TAPE 1 – SIDE 2
M: . . . research associate speaking, with Mr. & Mrs. Louis Nagy and Mrs. Christine East concerning the Hungarian Families who arrived in the area of Navarro and Ellis Counties early in the 20th Century. We had a great time talking last time, and it was a great interview and I got so much out of it. You were telling me that your father and mother did not teach you to speak Hungarian?
L: None at all. They never . . . in fact the only time they ever spoke Hungarian is when the relative was there that spoke mostly Hungarian, but that’s the only time that we ever heard it.
M: And your father was Joe Nagy?
L: Joe Nagy.
M: All right. What kind of accent did he have when he Christine Nagy East, Louis & Edie Nagy 2
M: spoke English?
L: Real good English, he didn’t have a broken . . .any broken accent.
M: Does that sort of indicate to you that he and his wife assimilated very quickly once they came to Texas?
L: He did more so than Mother.
M: Is that right?
L: He did more so than Mother. Of course, he was out among other American people that spoke fluent English so...
M: Right.
L: Apparently he just developed his accent better than Mother did.
M: And he read and wrote in English also.
L: Right.
M: Okay. Now Mrs. East, you were raised by the Szabo Family...no...
C: Szako.
M: Szako family – correctly – yeah, that’s right, Szako family.
C: Uh-huh.
M: And you were telling me that they did teach you to speak Hungarian.
C: I spoke Hungarian because I had access to my grandmother and grandfather more-so than they did.
M: Uh-huh.
C: The rest of the family. And I even at one time could Christine Nagy East, Louis & Edie Nagy 3
C: read Hungarian. I could not write it, but my grandfather took a newspaper that was published in Detroit called the Detroit Ujsag and he taught me to read.
M: Uh-huh.
C: But I think it was mainly because I was with my grandparents more than the rest of the children.
M: You were telling me some interesting stories about your grandparents and that your grandmother didn’t learn English?
C: No, she did not speak a word of English.
M: Uh-huh.
C: Neither did my grandfather.
M: Well, I was curious as to...well, how did they farm and get along in their trade in town and things with people without any English?
C: Well, for one thing, there was a bachelor son that lived at home and he spoke English. And through him they did their shopping and the necessary things that required English.
M: All right. I am curious. I have met a lot of Hungarians in San Antonio that they came over recently and they all have real thick accents. Did you at any point in your life have an accent?
C: No.
M: Never did?
C: No.
M: All right. That’s interesting, from another point of Christine Nagy East, Louis & Edie Nagy 4
M: view, in the learning of English and the retention of the mother tongue and things like that. Do you...[inaudible].
C: Of course, I was born here.
M: Uh-huh.
C: And we spoke English more than we did Hungarian. In fact, the only time we spoke Hungarian is when I was with my granddad.
M: Right. Would you like to speak a little Hungarian for our tape? For example: any rhymes or the Lord’s Prayer or anything like that.
C: I can’t. I’m sorry. In fact, I’ve just about forgotten it now. I can understand it.
M: Right.
C: But to construct a sentence is almost an impossibility for me anymore. I have no one with whom I can speak Hungarian.
M: Right, uh-huh.
C: So...
M: But you think that if you were around Hungarian-speaking people that you would pick it up?
C: Oh, I think so.
M: Rather rapidly.
C: I think so.
M: Yeah. That’s the same thing the lady over in Orange, Texas, told me over the phone, and she said, “Oh, I justChristine Nagy East, Louis & Edie Nagy 5
M: long to be around and listen to someone speak Hungarian.” And I’m sure that there are some Hungarian people around Orange, Beaumont and Port Arthur area.
L: Possibly the reason Mother spoke with an accent – she could speak five, five languages.
M: Is that right? What were they?
L: Well, Spanish, Hungarian, English, uh...
C: Serbian?
L: Serbian.
M: German?
C: I don’t know what else.
L: Possibly a little bit of German.
M: Uh-huh.
C: That’s one thing about those people that were reared over there: they spoke many languages.
M: Uh-huh. Well, Hungarian was a multi-lingual, multi-cultural society.
C: Dad Szako spoke seven and could read and write five.
M: My word. That is something else. And we feel almost ignorant because we can’t do anything with English these days.
C: ...[inaudible] don’t do that too well.
E: Too lazy to try to speak anything else. I’ve lived around the Mexican people all my life and I haven’t... I didn’t learn Spanish; I can understand it, but I didn’t learn to speak it.Christine Nagy East, Louis & Edie Nagy 6
M: Right. I feel the same way. I’ve been in San Antonio since 1968 and I still haven’t taken any courses; I should have.
E: I took courses and I still can’t speak it.
C: Well, Dad Szako picked up Bohemian, which is now Czech, and Spanish in the store, just by dealing with customers.
M: Uh-huh.
C: But they just were more apt when it came to languages.
E: You can say, “Hello, how are you?”
L: ...[inaudible].
C: What?
E: Where did you ever come up with that? I never heard that before.
L: Oh, you don’t understand Hungarian? C: Oh, I understand Hungarian, yes.
L: That’s all I can say.
C: ...[inaudible] I don’t know.
M: Great. Have you all come across any other family data? This is a great article; I’m glad to have that.
E: Just that is all.
M: I don’t know if there’s a ghost of a chance of getting the original photo, but I...
E: Alice Szako may have it, but that was a long time ago.
M: Yeah, the photographer may have kept his negatives... I can always inquire. You can when you need to.
L: That family photo, we have to go to San Marcos to get Christine Nagy East, Louis & Edie Nagy 7
L: that.
E: ...[inaudible].
L: ...[inaudible].
M: Oh, I see, all right.
L: We have to go to San Marcos to get that.
E: Found out yesterday that...[inaudible]
M: All right.
E: ...[inaudible] Mary said she...[inaudible] on Friday a Xerox copy like we have,...[inaudible] picture but,... [inaudible] in San Marcos has the original picture.
L: Supposedly.
M: This one?
E: No, not this one.
M: Okay.
E: No, the house, you know, the house with the Nagys sitting on the front porch.
M: Okay. That one I would like to copy, too.
E: Yeah...[inaudible]. But I will call her and tell her how anxious you are to have this picture.
M: If she would...
E: How should she send it?
M: If she would put cardboard on either side of it and put it in a padded mailing envelope – you can buy them in the...
E: Yeah, I know.
M: ...post Office, and then have them stamp on there, ”Photo, do not bend,” would be the best thing.Christine Nagy East, Louis & Edie Nagy 8
C: Should be registered.
E: And it should be registered?
M: If she feels comfortable with that, yes, definitely. And we’ll take the very best care; it will be approximately three weeks before we will get that through our lab and...
E: Okay.
M: ...on the way back to her. And she has my letter and address and phone number and everything like that, so she really doesn’t have any reason to worry about that.
E: We’ll call her and talk about it.
M: Now when I go up to the Corsicana area, you’ve already given me some names - Mrs. Szenasy?
E: Yeah.
M: And she said she couldn’t see me this week because she was coming to San Antonio on a bus trip...
E: ... [inaudible].
M: Yesterday, I think it was.
L: ... [inaudible]
M: If they got in there yesterday, they ran into a flood.
E: Isn’t that the truth.
M: Oh, I tell you I felt sorry, but she said she wouldn’t have time to stop by the Institute, and I told her, “Well,” [inaudible]. Then the other lady was Mrs. Brown, I believe.
L: Yeah.
M: Okay. And she told me that she couldn’t see me during Christine Nagy East, Louis & Edie Nagy 9
M: June or July because she was baby-sitting her grandchildren. And I’ve gotten several other names in different families that I’m going to be contacting and setting up a schedule. But your suggestions on where to go to look for information on the families up there or people to talk to and interview, like you’ve already given me, really would be appreciated because it will save me a bunch of time when I get up there.
E: We’ve been intending to go and just make a special trip to go up there and go to the courthouse in Ellis County...
C: Waxahachie.
M: Yeah.
E: But we just haven’t been able to go and I... we’ve been, keep saying we’re going but my brother’s been so seriously ill that, you know, I’m afraid to leave.
M: Naturally.
C: What about Uncle Steve’s boys? Aren’t they in Corsicana?
E: I don’t know anything about...
C: There’s a Joe Nagy there. Isn’t his name Joe?
E: Now Sam – who does Sam belong to?
L: Sam. That’s the one I know.
E: He lives in Corsicana.
C: Yes. Sam Nagy.
E: Is he older than you or younger?
L: ...About the same age. Christine Nagy East, Louis & Edie Nagy 10
E: About the same age.
C: Uh-huh. I think he still lives there and I think Joe lives there.
E: I know Sam. I even have...I have Sam’s name and address in my book. But I... who was his father?
C: Uncle Steve.
E: Steve.
C: Uh-huh.
E: But I don’t know anybody...
M: And you’re going to Waxahachie, to the courthouse, to...?
E: I want to go back – they say that that’s where all the information is. I couldn’t find anything at the courthouse in Corsicana.
C: I’ve had...[inaudible]
E: Of course, I really don’t know how to look.
C: I’ve had another thought.
E: What?
C: What about Sister Julia?
E: Now she...she is on the...is she on the Nagy side or the Szenasy side? Nagy. She’s kin to Aunt Mary.
C: She’s Velma’s daughter.
E: Yeah, that’s right. She’s...
C: Nagy.
E: And does she live in...still live in San Antonio?
C: No. She’s a nun and was teaching at where? Providence? Christine Nagy East, Louis & Edie Nagy 11
E: I believe so.
C: In San Antonio.
M: That’s right.
C: But I think she took a leave and she is in Dallas with her mother, and I have heard...[inaudible].
E: Uh-huh.
C: Sister Julia Buedai – B-u-e-d-a-i.
M: And if you could just drop a note to me and let me have her...[inaudible].
C: Aren’t you going by my house on the way home?
M: Oh, yeah. I didn’t know whether you had brought your artifacts over here or...
C: Oh, no, I had too many.
M: Okay.
C: And they were too heavy.
M: Okay. Well, we can go up there; I would love to see them.
C: Okay.
M: What I want to do is...
C: If it’s convenient, honey.
M: Oh, let’s do it.
C: If not, I can mail you her address.
M: No, let’s do it. What I’d like for you to do when we look at each one is to describe on the tape recorder what they are.
C: Oh, okay.Christine Nagy East, Louis & Edie Nagy 12
M: And things about them that you know. It’d be great.
So we’re making progress. I found out I got a letter today from Lubbock, from the University, and back in 1910 one of the railroad companies was trying to start up a Hungarian colony, up in the Pan Handle.
.: [Inaudible].
M: And the correspondence says that a lady of noble Hungarian birth is behind this project. She thinks that the incoming peasant families, farming families, need to be relocated away from the mines and the mills and the factories and to rural areas where they can continue farming ...but the idea is interesting.
C: Yes.
M: Well, in looking through all of my census things suddenly way out in the Pan Handle, Wheeler County had thirty-two Hungarian immigrants and thirty-six kids.
.: [inaudible].
M: Now Wheeler County is way out in nowhere.
C: Yes.
M: I had to look for it on the map. And when I found it, I thought – what in the world? 1910? and here’s a big concentration. Well, other counties - like Waller has two, Washington six, Webb one, Wilbarger one, Williamson three,...[inaudible] one, you know. Now, who are these single individuals stuck way out in rural counties? I surmise that they were Jewish merchants, born in Hungary.Christine Nagy East, Louis & Edie Nagy 13
C: Could have been.
M: Who were spreading across the American West and every little town, county seat, would have maybe a dry goods store or something like. But when you get thirty-two in one county that’s way out in nowhere, it makes you wonder. The same thing’s true of even Navarro County. The surprising thing that I found was that in 1910 Dallas had four hundred and thirty-eight.
C: . . .[inaudible] imagine.
M: Now who in the world were all these people? You know, 1910. And so I’ve got . . . I’ve already gotten some work done in the Dallas Public Library. I’m going to have to call them back and tell them . . . [inaudible] .
C: Have you ever heard from Dr. Zsohar?
M: No.
C: They apparently didn’t get the mail, because they would be vitally interested.
E: Yeah. They come to San Antonio often too.
M: Well, if you . . .
C: They have a daughter in San Antonio.
M: If you happen to speak them . . . [inaudible]. You know they may not want – may not want to participate.
C: Oh, I think so.
M: Well, I still have their address and everything, and I can drop them a line.
C: And I have their daughter’s address in San Antonio; she Christine Nagy East, Louis & Edie Nagy 14
C: teaches there.
M: Okay. Well, that would be good. Maybe I could get in touch with her.
C: Yes.
M: She may be more familiar with what the Institute does.
C: Remind me to do that.
M: We can go up to your house at any time that you’d like.
L: How about some coffee?
E: Yeah, I have it made.
M: Okay.
E: I’ll be that Mary knows that Hungarian in Laredo – I mean in Webb County - Laredo’s the biggest town in Webb County.
C: Didn’t she have a lady that visited her from there?
E: Yeah and it was . . . and she even had some business in Laredo or across the river. But I believe . . . I bet that she knows that person.
C: Okay. My sister, Mary, from San Antonio, called me yesterday.
M: Uh-huh.
C: She was hoping to come up to see me tomorrow, and I said, “Well, who’s bringing you?” because she doesn’t drive anymore, and she said, “Ann Weigand,” who is a Hungarian.
M: You mentioned that lady’s name.
C: Yes.
M: Uh-huh.Christine Nagy East, Louis & Edie Nagy 15
C: Mary didn’t mention her to you?
M: No.
C: When you talked to her.
M: You did the last time I was here.
C: Yes, I know we mentioned her, and I thought maybe my sister mentioned her when you talked to her.
M: Not that I recall. I don’t recall that she did; she may have, but I don’t recall it.
C: Well now, there’s a source for you also.
M: Ah so.
C: And I don’t know how to spell Ann’s last name. Do you know?
L: I don’t know – I don’t know whether she still goes by the Weigand or her last . . .
C: You could find out through my sister.
E: I imagine she does.
C: . . .Through my sister Mary – Mrs. Avant.
M: . . . [inaudible] tracing all these leads. I told somebody the other day that I’m literally pitch-forking Texas history to find Hungarians. But when I get to a census year like 1910 and it shows up really something significant – to the tune of thirteen hundred and fifty-one Hungarians in Texas, scattered all over . . .
C: Oh, well, you’ve done a tremendous amount of research.
M: Well, there’s still lots to do. El Paso had thirty-nine.Christine Nagy East, Louis & Edie Nagy 16
C: Really?
M: Yeah. And there’s some surprises here that I haven’t followed up on yet: Goliad County – thirty-one immigrants, forty-six children. Now Goliad County? What’s down at Goliad? In 1910.
L: I worked there for a couple of years, but I was the only one down there.
M: You thought.
L: I was with the Triple A.
M: Uh-huh.
L: Agriculture Adjustment Administration.
M: It’s things like that – Dallam County, way up the top of the Pan Handle, eighteen. And these are the largest statistics, when I go through here and look at it, and some of them just don’t ring any bells. I mean, why?
L: That’s right.
M: And then you think, well, 1910 or twenty years later, the Pan Handle was a dust bowl – would there be anyone left at all or did they all pick up and leave?
C: I feel like they must have.
M: Gone to California or . . .
C: Particularly if they were farmers.
M: Yeah.
C: There was nothing left for them.
M: Well, I’m going to follow up and read the population schedules and see if I can pick up on the names. For a Christine Nagy East, Louis & Edie Nagy 17
M: county like Wheeler or Dallam way up in the Pan Handle that’s not a lot of names on microfilm for the census up there. And then once I pick up on those names, then maybe I can get . . . [inaudible].
C: Women’s purses. I thought I had Isabel’s address in here but I don’t.
M: Hello. We’re at Mrs. Christine East’s home now and we’re going to be looking at family heirlooms and treasures brought from Hungary by the family when they came to America.
C: It did record?
M: It is working, yes.
C: Okay. All right. I brought these down from upstairs. These were my Granddaddy Nagy’s wine glasses, his whiskey glass, the only one left, only two of these, and his beer mug.
M: Now these look to be crystal or glass, there’s not
. . .
C: They are not fine by any means.
M: Yeah, it’s glass. Decanter, two small wine glasses, without stem, one small whiskey shot glass and one standard size beer mug. All right.
C: Okay. And this was my grandmother’s and grandfather’s sugar bowl.
M: That’s big.
C: Well, there were nine in the family.Christine Nagy East, Louis & Edie Nagy 18
M: Uh-huh.
C: So you can imagine. Now the top I do not have. It was broken somewhere down the way.
M: Now when you mention your grandfather and grandmother, would you be sure to name them so that . . .
C: Nagy.
M: All right.
C: John Nagy. John and Christina.
M: Now this sugar bowl is . . . has three feet on it, is very large, approximately eight inches in diameter, it’s beautifully, brightly painted with flowers, lot of blue and yellow and gold, it’s a beautiful piece.
C: I went to this trouble.
M: Uh-huh.
C: I said if my nieces and nephews came into my house, they’d probably toss a lot of this stuff thinking it was junk. So I have tried to label things. And I have told my family to look under and behind. This was my grandmother’s – Grandmother Nagy again.
M: Now this is another pitcher, pottery, predominately white with blue flowers and blue and gold rim, with a handle. Uh-huh. That is approximately nine inches tall and about eight inches in diameter at the base. Okay.
C: Did you ever see one of these?
M: Now that is called a charcoal . . .
C: Charcoal, uh-huh. Christine Nagy East, Louis & Edie Nagy 19
M: Charcoal iron, belonging to Mrs. Joe Nagy - John Nagy.
C: John Nagy.
M: Right. It’s very large, it looks like it is made out of brass and it has the wooden handle to open the top to put the charcoal in and it weighs a ton.
C: And I can still see my grandmother – you know, she’d put the hot charcoal in here and then she would swish it back and forth to get it to burn more . . . and ironing my bachelor uncle’s white shirt.
M: That was quite a chore, because it’s so heavy.
C: Absolutely. Now let’s see in here. Oh, and this lamp.
M: Now this is a kerosene lamp, lantern, with a chimney, the oil base holding unit is decorated with flowers and vines, very beautiful. Now, was that brought from Hungary?
C: Uh-huh. Uh-huh.
M: All right.
C: Now, let’s see. I guess I should have centralized it for you.
M: Oh, that’s quite all right.
C: There’s just so much. This was also her fruit basket.
M: All right. This is a ceramic, saucer-sized plate, blue and white, surrounded by a wire rim with two handles, approximately nine inches across. It’s beautiful. A fruit basket?
C: Uh-huh. This was a wedding gift. It opens.
M: It’s a clock. Christine Nagy East, Louis & Edie Nagy 20
C: Uh-huh.
M: Uh-huh. Approximately six inches tall with a handle on top, the clock is set into a glass and metal framing and you open up and you see all of the works of the clock and the keys. And it was a wedding gift to them?
C: Yes.
M: That’s beautiful. Now where do you think that was made?
C: I don’t have any idea, but my mother took it to a jeweler one day and he said the last time it had been worked on – I didn’t know that jewelry men dated inside of the clock somewhere – and he said it was 1912.
M: Uh-huh.
C: Okay. Another, these are wedding gifts also. The mortar and pestle . . .
M: . . .Made out of brass it looks like, uh-huh.
C: Uh-huh. And the candlestick holders.
M: Which are approximately nine inches tall.
C: Uh-huh.
M: And they’re also brass. This was a wedding gift to –
C: . . .Wedding gift also to John and Christina Nagy.
M: All right. Very good.
C: Okay. I have only three of my granddad’s wine glasses.
M: These look like cut glass, they’re approximately four inches tall, stemmed, and very beautiful, and there are three of them in the family.Christine Nagy East, Louis & Edie Nagy 21
C: Three left.
M: Uh-huh.
C: This was my grandmother’s gravy boat.
M: That’s beautiful.
C: Isn’t that sweet?
M: Uh-huh. That also came from Hungary?
C: Yes.
M: Does it have a marking or . . . ?
C: Well if it does, I can’t read it.
M: I can’t read it either. It looks like G-e-r-u-s Porcelain, and I’m not familiar with that.
C: No. Oh, I forgot to show you the coffee grinder in the kitchen, we’ll catch that on the way back.
M: Okay. Now we’re looking at a small, wire basket, looks like an egg basket.
C: That’s what she used it for.
M: Uh-huh.
C: Her little egg basket.
M: Uh-huh. That’s approximately eight inches in diameter. Typical egg basket that collapses if you push it down.
C: Yes, uh-huh, isn’t that cute?
M: Uh-huh. You’ve got beautiful plants out here, and that’s nice.
C: Oh, this . . . [inaudible].
M: And old bottles.
C: Those are New Mexico bottles.Christine Nagy East, Louis & Edie Nagy 22
M: Uh-huh.
C: They turn purple . . .
M: Yes.
C: . . .Or amber or turquoise from the sun. And they have to be from 1913 back.
M: Is that right?
C: Or they will not turn.
M: Uh-huh.
C: Let’s see. I have a mirror in the back bedroom. Oh, and by the way, these are the parents that I talk so much about.
M: All right.
C: The Szakos.
M: Now didn’t we copy their wedding . . .
C: Yes.
M: Portrait, the little one, yes, uh-huh, we sure did. That’s very good, I’m glad you have that.
C: Oh, I’m tickled to death.
M: Uh-huh.
C: Now then, this mirror came out of wardrobe that my Grandmother and Granddad Nagy brought over from Europe.
M: Um. That’s about what? Four feet tall.
C: Just about.
M: About a foot wide.
C: Yeah.
M: It’s a beveled mirror.Christine Nagy East, Louis & Edie Nagy 23
C: Uh-huh.
M: And it came in a wardrobe from Hungary. Uh-huh.
C: After my mother gave it to me, of course, if you’ll notice that it’s rough . . .
M: Yeah.
C: Because it had molding around it. And I took it to a man to see if he would trim it and even it up and he said, “No way.” Because glass becomes very brittle with age and he said it just might break all to pieces.
M: Oh, he wouldn’t even touch it then?
C: No, so I said, “Well, fine.” And it just happened to fit into this space.
M: That’s great.
C: Oh, I didn’t show you this other lamp in here. I’ve had it wired, though.
M: Oh, that’s an old oil lamp, very, very ornate, pressed glass, with an amber-colored shade.
C: Well, this was not a part of it.
M: Oh, it wasn’t?
C: No, I had this re-wired. I had it wired and then had the shade put on. This is the original.
M: Uh-huh.
C: Let’s see, I think the only other thing I didn’t show you was the . . .
M: Coffee grinder?
C: Coffee grinder.Christine Nagy East, Louis & Edie Nagy 24
M: All right. Oh, this is an old coffee mill grinder.
C: Yeah.
M: Now, tell me about that.
C: Well, it was just my grandmother and grandfather.
M: And they’d buy coffee by the sack of beans and then have to grind their . . .
C: I’m sure they did; they had to parch and grind their own coffee. Now I have one of these on the front porch but it is not an antique.
M: Uh-huh.
C: It was just a copy.
M: Well, these items that the John Nagys brought from Hungary about 1900 are possibly a part of a Hungarian exhibit some day at the Institute and that would really be interesting.
C: Okay, that’s all. I want to get these addresses for you.
M: Okay. Thank you.
END OF TAPE 1, SIDE 2.
SIDE 1 – (NOT PART OF NAGY INTERVIEW)