THE INSTITUTE OF TEXAN CULTURES
ORAL HISTORY PROGRAH
INTERVIEW WITH: Lucille Cowley Nixon
INTERVIEWERS:
DATE:
PLACE:
Rowena Nixon Di11acd (daughtec)
Wa1tec and Janie Sacgeant
May 16, 1987
Peacsa11, Texas
JS: How old ace you?
N: How old am I? I'm 99 yeacs old and will be a hundred
on August 19th.
JS: Have you always lived in Peacsa11?
N: I've lived here since I was six years old.
JS: Where did you move Eran?
N: A canch 20 miles fran hece . We had a ranch on the
Atascosa and Frio County Roads to Charlotte. We have a
ranch that my Eather pre-emmpted when he came to this
country.
JS: Did he buy it, you mean? When you say pce-empted what
do you mean?
N: Well, he had to take up the land Ecan the government,
and live on it so long before he became owner of it, and
then he paid them so much, I don't know how much. (Rowena:
25~ an acce) And at that time they were roping cattle,
going up the tcai1, and he roped enough cattle, and sold
them to pay Eor the piece oE land which was a thousand
acres,.
NIXON 2
JS : Did you have quite a few children in the family?
N: I'm the only child.
JS: Who helped him, did he have Mexican help?
N: He had a brother-in-law that came to this country with
him, and Mexican neighbors.
JS: Where did he come from, your father?
N: Guadalupe county, close to Prairie Lea, a little town.
I believe they call it Fentress, now.
from Alabama to there)
(Rowena: He came
JS: Did he move into town when he left the ranch?
N: No, he stayed on the ranch. And we still have that
ranch. We have a home on it and go stay whenever we want
to. He built the first plank house in Atascosa and Frio
County.
WS: Where did he get the lumber from?
N: He bought the lumber in San Antonio at Steves Lumber
Company and hauled it here by wagon.
JS: We understand the r e were not too many trees here
earlier.
N: There weren't any, hardly. I don't think. No, he (my
daddy) came with his brother - And a Mexican family, they
lived there in the area. My daddy roped cattle but he
didn't go up the trail. His brother-in-law went up the
trail. He would go just so far and meet him and other
bunches that were coming from over other parts of the
county. And delivered his cattle.
JS : When you moved here, did you move into town so you
NIXON 3
JS: could go t o school?
N: Yes.
JS: Did the whole fam ily cane in?
N: I was the only family. I was the only child.
JS: Did your mother and daddy cane?
N: My mother came and my father stayed on the ranch. He
built the first plank house but I don't know how much of an
area it covered. My mother said she always tried to keep
the yard around there. His brother fran Guadalupe County
came and helped and built his house for him. And she had
the first plank house between Pleasanton and Pearsall I
guess.
JS: What kind of a house did you have in town?
N: This house right across the street.
JS: That ' s the one that burned?
N: No. They have remodeled it, it was just a single
story, they have two stories over there.
JS: That wasn't the one that burned then?
N: No. The house his brother built for him here in
Pearsall he gave it to the Methodist Church here in
Pearsall, they moved it over to another block and had
services there , 'cause they didn't have a church. Then
after that he just let them rent out for class roams.
JS: You were seven years old when you started school?
N: Yes.
JS: What kind of school was it?
N: Just a public school over here about three blocks.
NIXON 4
JS: Do you know how many children there were?
N: No -- there wasn't too many.
JS: How many grades?
N: I don't know that either. There was a few other people
lived here and one of them had a kindergarten. That's what
we call them now but she just took children in there and
took care of them half a day. She lived down here in
another plank house and I went there for a year before I
went to public school.
JS: How many years did you go to public school?
N: Until I was fifteen .
JS: Do you remember any of your teachers?
N: My first teachers's name was Bessie Manney.
JS: Probably she was a young girl?
N: I guess so. They lived down there, it was a big plank
house - they had a big family. She was the first teacher I
had, her sister was named Lynn and she had the kindergarten.
I went there until I was eligible for public school, I was
just six. When the next term came, due to put me in school
at seven years old, my father rented that place. It was
just a little two story house. The only pla~ates I had
were two neighbor girls. I went to kindergarten but they
didn't go. When I became eligible my mother took me over to
the public school.
JS: How may grades were there; did you have more than the
first grade?
N: I don't know how many - - oh, I guess there was about
ten or twelve of us in my class. I can ' t remember how many.
NIXON 5
JS: Was that just in first grade or did they combine the
grades?
N: No, that was a play school down there. I didn't know
how to play. My father roped cattle, and had Mexican men
working for him. His brother-in-law, his two
brothers-in-law and so I didn't know anything about children
- only just grown people and this Mexican family, I guess.
I don't know how old I was but I was born in Prairie Lea.
Mother went back to Prarie Lea, she had come out and stayed
in a camp, you know, a r ock house, I guess you'd call it
rock - anyhow it was a cow camp. Logs and rocks and things,
had one room and they 1 i ved there. When it was time for me
to be born she went to her sister's house in Prwrie Lea.
Then there never was another child born in my family.
JS: Were there Indians in the area when they first came
here?
N: I don't think they was. There was some Mexicans. My
father wanted her to stay at home in Pra~ie Lea with her
family and he would go occasionally to see her. She cried
to came down to live with him and he'd got her and brought
her home - it was a log house, a log camp, he'd built and
she was so afraid all the time; he was gone all the time.
He was gone from day-light until after dark and she was
there all day long by herself. Mexicans would come in the
area and she was scared to death of 'em. She stayed in that
little old house; she was scared all the time. She cried
all the time so finally he had to take her back home.
NIXON 6
N: He'd take her back home and she cried to come back with
him. It kept him busy going and taking her. She was the
only white woman anywhere there in the area. She said there
seemed to be a - I don't know what you call it - anyhow,
there was a carriage (stage coach) that carried people from
Laredo - Mexico to San Antonio - and she had the only plank
house in the country so they would detour by, to see it.
She said she never knew when they were gonna drive up. She
always tried to keep around her camp clean and you know when
they would come by. He built the first plank house between
Pleasanton and Pearsall I guess.
JS: Would they stay all night? These people on the stage
coach?
N: No, I do know they stayed on another ranch about twenty
miles from where we lived in Atascosa county. They had a
ranch down there but we never visited together. The men
worked together. There wasn 't any family down there, just
another cow camp. She said she never knew whenever a coach
from the border to San Antonio would drive up with a coach
full of people going , traveling, and they wanted to see her
house.
JS: The plank house?
N: Plank house. My mother had a brother that lived in
Devine and she would take me to the train and put me on the
train here. I would ride to Devine and her brother would
piCk me up at Devine. I was, I guess six or seven years
old. This boy moved here, and became the deputy sheriff
NIXON 7
N: in this town. He was an uncle to this girl - this lady
over here (neighbor). When my father moved here, he bought
a store with another party. It was called W.B. Cowley and
Co. My uncle was living here at that time and he was
running the store. Mother had five or six br others , I don't
know, a bunch of 'em. There was always two or three of 'em
living with us and one had a store in Devine. And so -- I'd
been sent to college then. This boy was living with the
sheriff that was here in Pearsall and his brother lived in
Houston, which was my husband who came here to visit him.
So everybody went t o the train when it came through here,
Pearsall. So they met the train and this boy came up to me
and he said to me "I'm going to put my brother on this train
and he's going to San Antonio, and I want you to meet him
would you meet him?" I said "Yes, I'll meet him." I then
was about sixteen years old, oh , I guess I was older than
that, I guess I was seventeen and that's where I met him.
He had his brother came t o the train and that's where I met
him.
JS: Where did you go to college?
N: San Antonio. At that time the name of the college was
San Antonio Female College, it was a church school;
Methodist Church School.
JS: And what is it - is it still a college now?
N: No, it went into - they combined with another school,
and they called it San Antonio Female College and then they
absorbed another c ollege which was Episcopalian school was
in San Antonio. And is now known as Trinity University.
NIXON 8
JS: How long after you met your husband before you were
married?
N: Oh, about two years.
JS: Did you settle in Pearsall, then after you were
married?
N: I didn't leave heme.
JS: You lived with your mother?
N: My husband was a cashier with the bank here in
Pearsall. He had worked in Houston for Henke and Pillot,
which was a big lumber yard in Houston. His family had a
ranch close to - I guess they called it, that little area,
they called it Yancey, and he went to school in Houston. He
went to a business college, and he became a business
bookkeeper. After he went to Houston with this company, his
uncle was a doctor in Houston. He was from Luling - Luling
was the town, the other side of San Antonio. He got sick
when he was a bookkeeper and he worked for Henke and pillot
in Houston. Lumber camps were all around Houston and they
sent him down in the swamps, you know to be a supervisor of
one of the camps. He became ill with fever and he came home
to visit his mother to get him well. And so he got sick and
he came home and he was out on that ranch - his father's
ranch, which was up close to Hondo, called Yancey area. His
brother came and asked me, said "Would you meet my little
brother? He is going to San Antonio to get him a suit of
clothes, and would you meet him?" I said "Yes". He said
"He won't let you falloff the train. He'll keep you on the
NIXON 9
N: train". And my uncle, in that time, my father had
given him enough money to go in business in Devine and I was
going up there to spend the night with him and his family.
Another uncle was putting me on the train and so he, this
b rother of my husband, came to me and he said would you meet
my little brother? He was younger than my husband but he
was a smaller man and his brother was a pretty good sized
man. And he always called him his little brother, my
husband was littl e brother. And so I said, I was then, I
guess, about seventeen years o ld, I married when I was
nineteen. Anyhow I said "Yes". So he brought him over and
he said he won't let you falloff the train, he'll take care
of you. So he sat down beside me. I got off at Devine. I
was going to Devine to go to a dance at my uncle's house.
So, when he says he's going to come back tomorrow, I said
I 'm coming back t omorrow. He said well he would be on the
train, too, and I won 't let you falloff. I never will
forget that he teased me all the time about going by myself.
When I came back t o Pearsall, he was on the train. And when
I came - to the train - I was taken there by another boy
friend from Devine. And so this boy my husband happened to
know, lived in Devine but my husband's people lived on this
ranch you know, out close to Devine. So he took my little
handbag put me there, sat me there, and so when my uncle
that was running the store for my father met me at the train
here in Pearsall why this boy, my husband, took my suitcase
and took me off the train. So he asked me, I was
NIXON 10
N: seventeen years old at the time, "What do you do?" (I'd
t old him I had a horse I rode all the time) he said "will
you go riding with me - uh - this afternoon?" And I said
"Yes, I'll go riding with you." So he came and brought his
horse and I saddled my horse up and I rode with him and we
went riding. Romantic, isn't it? We went for a ride
(horseback riding). His brother was a bookkeeper here for a
sheriff; I mean a deputy sheriff here in Pearsall. So the
next day he came to my house and he said he wanted to go
riding again. He said, and the sher iff had a buggy and a
horse, two horses, and he came in those. He said, "I have a
buggy and two horses. Now will you go riding with me?" I
said, "yes." So my mother put me in that and let me go
riding with him, so that was a remembrance.
JS: That started your courtship.
N: Ye s .
JS: Was he always a cashier in the bank, all the years you
were married?
N: No , he was cashier quite a few years. My father had
this ranch you know, twenty miles from here. And I had been
to college; they sent me to college, and in the summertime I
came home. He'd cane back over here and he came and ask me
- What did you ask me?
JS: I asked you after you were marr ied how many years was
he cashier in the bank?
N: Oh, I don't know - how many (Rowena: Just a few
months)
NIXON 11
JS: What did he do most of his life? What kind of work did
he do?
N: That's what he did - bookkeeping. (Rowena: They moved
to the ranch shortly after they married because there was no
other boy to help). He worked in the bank and I married -
oh, his brother was a deputy sheriff to this lady's Uncle
here in Pearsall.
the ranch). what?
(Rowena: After you married you moved to
After you married you moved to the ranch?
N: Yes, I moved to the ranch. One day my father came in
fran the ranch and he said "How would you like to cane and
work with me on the ranch?" And course he was raised on the
ranch and he said he'd 1 ike it. He said, "will you can e
work with me and you can live here with mother."
JS: And then he would cane week-ends?
N: Uh huh!
JS: How many children did you have?
N: I was the only child.
JS: How many children did you have?
N: I had three.
JS: Three of them?
N: I lost my first child, it was born dead. I had my
second child - it was several years later, two years I guess
later and he was crippled and was lame and then - I - oh,
then he died. And then Rowena, my daughter here, later was
born.
JS: You took care of them here in town while your husband
NIXON 12
JS: was out on the ranch?
N: Uh - with my mother, my father bought interest with
two other men here and they had a store and one of the men
stole all the money , and got on the train and left the
country. They didn't know where he had gone. The other one
said he didn't have any money , what was he gonna do with a
store, my father would have to assume the store. He said ,
"I haven 't any money; I can 't assune that store." He said ,
"I guess I'll have t o ." It just had beans and coffee and
sugar that's all. You know it was a dry goods store, a
grocery store. At that time there was a grocery store,
another grocery store and uh - they called it a mercantile
s tore. I guess they didn't have groceries, they just sold I
guess, I don't know what.
JS: Clothes , is that where you got your clothes?
N: What?
JS: Is that where you got your clothes - where did you get
y our clothes to wear?
N: Mother would get on the t ra in here, came in fram the
ranch, get on a train, and go to San Antonio and buy our
clothes.
NIXON 13
JS: NIXON - DILLARD
Now you're the daughter of Lucille?
R: Yes, Lucille and B.K. Nixon.
WS: You were born here in ah - ?
R: Pearsall.
WS: Pearsall - and you moved to the ranch?
R: I lived at the ranch until I was six. Mother came here
for me to be born.
WS: What did you do - go hame summers, after you got into
school? Did you come here to school?
R: I lived with my grandmother, here, and went to school.
Then in summers I'd stay at the ranch until mother went into
business.
WS: What did she do?
R: She had a dress shop and a beauty shop. And so then
she lived here permanently.
WS: You graduated from school here then?
R: Yes. And then I went to Austin, University of Texas,
to c ollege.
WS: What did your father do - how long did he stay on the
ranch?
R: 'Til he died. Well, he lived here, ah, we had hames
both places - we lived both places, and we still do.
WS: Is that - what have you done, re-modernized the ranch
hame quite a bit?
R: No, a Mexican family lives in that hame.
WS : Oh, I see.
NIXON 14
R: And we live in the second home. We have a second home
that they built.
WS: When did they build that?
R: In 1918.
WS: Is that a brick home?
R: No , it's like she says - plank, but we lived here after
I started school basically except my father would commute
more than she because she went into business.
WS: I see. When did you get that electricity and stuff out
at the ranch? Was it in the 30's or scmething 40's?
R: I don't know - I've always know electricity.
JS: You have a histo ry there, that's been written up of -?
R: Yes, our ranch received a Heritage Award from the Land
Commission. That they had owned it, and had maintained it
as originally proposed, as an operating cattle ranch for a
hundred years. In ' 83 we received that award.
WS: 104 years ago - then - now.
R: Uh-huh.
WS: Is it about the same acreage and everything that was
the same?
R: Yes.
WS: She said something about the section - that wasn't the
secti on?
R: Well, the or i ginal purchase was a secti on.
WS: Is that 160 -
R: 640 acres - isn't that a section?
WS: Heah, that's r ight.
NIXON 15
R: . The original purchase was that and as he would take
cattle up and get money, he would then bury it under where
they had the smoke house fire and then when he would acquire
e nough gold, he would dig up his gold and ride to Austin and
purchase more acreage around that area.
WS: Gold was about the main exchange of money?
R: That was the exchange.
WS: Paper money wasn't much -
R: No.
WS: Wonder when silver money came into - ?
R: I don't know.
WS: I don't either, I was just curious. Would this be
gold - ?
R: Coins. That's were he kept it - underneath the
smokehouse fire.
WS: Probably later, they must have had a bank here tho -
shortly after ?
R: Yes, they did, a National bank.
WS: Did they have any bank robberies? --
R: Not that I know of, probably before my time.
WS: James brothers and the Hardins never bothered this
town.
JS: Did you want to read same of that - that history that
has been - / - ?
R: We ll, after our heme burned , I decided I needed from
her, same stories to tell the history of the ranch. And so
I would come up here each afternoon, she'd tell me a story.
NIXON 16
R: This is written in her language - understand - hers -
not what I would write, but she went on to tell about her
father coming from Prairie Lea and then about his education
was only through the third grade. And when he was fourteen,
his father sent him to Coleman county to manage a ranch and
with a friend named Boots Sherrill and they learned to be
ranch hands, and considered themselves to be real big. I'll
just read you as I have it. "They were allowed to come home
twice a year , Christmas and Fourth of July, and Will would
always get drunk and ride down the street on a horse,
shooting, scaring everybody until he cleared the town of
Prairie Lea. No one dared t o get on the streets when he
cam e han e because he was never known to have missed his aim.
While on the ranch, for pastime, will practiced pistol
shooting and became an absolute proficient marksman. My
mother, Henrietta Lilly's family came to Texas from
Tennessee. They settled in Prairie Lea on the San Marcos
River. My mother was of a large family, five boys, Clint,
Cal, Warren, Albert Aldolphus and a cousin, Alvin, cam e to
live on the ranch and work. We lived on the ranch until I
was seven years old , when we moved to Pearsall - (this is
here) - in order to put me in school. I hated to move to
town as I loved the ranch. One of my most memorable
Christmases, when I walked into the room, was a life sized
doll sitting in my little rocker . We bought a small house
located where my present home is. Mamma found a
kindergarten teache r for me named Bird May. Mrs. May
NIXON 17
R: taught me to play with girls as I had never known
anything except cows, horses, dogs, and cowboys. At eight
years of age in 1894, I entered the public school s and my
first grade teacher was named Bessie May. Papa bought
interest in a general merchandise store named Gibbs, Lilly
and Cowley. Gibbs stole all the money, and ran away and
Lilly said he couldn't take over a store so my father had to
whether he wanted to or not. He told my mother's youngest
brother , Elbert Lilly, who was in business school in San
Antonio, that he would, if he could add, he would give him
part interest to run it. The store was then named W.B.
Cowley and Co. and remained this until 1907 when papa sold
it all to Eb (Lilly). My mother was Methodist and when we
came to Pearsall we all became affiliated with the church.
Mrs. Beaver , Mrs. Tulley and mama were am oung the charter
members of the Women's Missionary Society. She was always
very active in her church and saw to it that we were.
R: - during the depression, she went to work for the
government. And did what we called case work. And then
after that, she put in a dress shop and gift shop and in
addition to that she added a beauty shop. She was just
owner of the business, she had other people to run the
beauty shop.
JS: Let's see if we can get her to give her ideas on the
depression.
R: OK.
JS: I wanted to ask you about the depressi on days, do you
NIXON
JS:
N:
JS:
N:
JS:
WS:
N:
remember those?
What?
The depression days?
I guess I do.
What do you remember about them?
Hard times, huh?
18
Well, in the depression days, Dick Barnhart was well I
guess you'd call him superintendent - I don't know what he
was, the government appointed several people in different
counties to be the supervisor of the settlement, of the
people in Frio County. He also had a insurance business
here in Pearsall. And they had case workers and - we were
good friends - you know I was married before that and
he asked me t o be a case worker. And I worked f or him the
whole enduring time as a case worker of Frio county.
JS: What kind of help did you give the people? Money or
clothes ?
N: Didn't give ' em money - we gave 'em groceries, mostly,
and I had a divi sion, there was four of us that had Frio
county. And I had a division down here, a settlement was
called Big Foot and I was superintendent of that division.
And I went down there once a week to deliver groceries and
see what the needs were of that community.
JS: What type of people did you have?
N: What kind o f people did I have down there? (laugh­laugh
- laugh). Well I'm gonna tell you - you needn't put
this in that book - anyhow, that corner of Frio county was
NIXON 19
N: considered the toughest people in the whole c o unty; in
fact in the whole state. And - I went down there once a
week and took them groceries and clothes to wear and would
see about how they lived and report back to Dick Barnhart
here in Pearsall and I did that when they first organized
that program. I was one of the first on the list to be one
of the - case workers. And then at the close time I was the
last one that went off.
JS: Did you have to visit their homes?
N: Yes.
JS: Where did you get the groceries to give them?
N: The government shipped them in to Pearsall.
JS: What kinds of thing - beans, rice - what?
N: Oh, was jus staples, bacon and lard - and flour and
sugar, the staples, you know, for the community. And it was
very few people down there that were - I'll say were - just
nice people - they had ranches down there and they had
Mexicans and low white trash.
JS: Were they mostly on ranches or did they live in town?
N: No, they lived on their ranch around Big Foot - that
area. And one of the most, worst incidents I had while I
was there, 'course there were a lot of Mexicans, and I'd go
to take 'em groceries. Sometimes the govenment wouldn't
have groceries for me to take down but I'd have to go see
how they were getting along. So I went one time and I
didn't have any groceries and I said "I don't have anything
to give you." He said "Well I want to tell you, woman,
NIXON 20
N: (called me wanan) you better bring me sane groceries
next time or you're gonna wish you had." (laugh) So when I
came back to Pearsall I told the supervisor here. And he
said "Well, you take sanebody with you," and I did for once
of twice and then I just forgot it. So one time I didn't
have anything to take 'em and they met me as I crossed the
river down there between Pearsall and that area, called Big
Foot. Two Mexicans lined up - o ne on one side and one on
the other and when I went to go cross the river they came to
me and they asked me if I want to go cross the river, they
came to me and they asked me if I had groce r ies for 'em and
I said "No, I don't have any," and they said, "You'd bette r
not cane around here anym ore without groceries." So I went
on and I had to go another time, but wasn't afraid of 'em.
I went and they met me again, down there, on that bridge, I
went across that creek, I didn't know what they were gonna
do - they were mad - they each one of 'em had a stick in
their hand. So I r eached over and locked my car on both
sides and they said to me have y ou got any groceries. And
they said it's a good thing you do have wcman - if you
don't you are gonna get it - and they had sticks in their
hands. So we went on down to the main office and I told the
supervisor down there how they were doing and he said "Well,
I think you better not come d own here in this area anymore
wi thout sanebody else with you." I said "Well, I'm not
afraid o f them. I don't know, they are not gonna hurt me."
So then I went on and the next time I went down I had
NIXON 21
N: groceries. And they were down there on that river to
meet me and they said "Where's my groceries? Where's, I
want sanethin' to eat, I'm starving." I said, "Oh, I've got
things for you, now, just cane up here to this office and
I'll give you your flour and lard and coffee," you know.
And I came back and told this boy, this man here, what had
happened and he said "Don't you go down there in that area
any more by yourself." (Laughter)
N: So when he knew I was going he'd pick up sanebody on
the street sane man on the street, to go with me but I
didn't want them to go with me. Lots of times I'd ride up
to these houses, Mexican houses, and they always had a big
pack of - - dogs, four or five dogs wasn't anything for 'em
to have. And I - one man went with me one time and I went
to get out and those dogs just cam e to meet me, you know,
and he said you can't get out of this car. I said why I'm
not afraid of those dogs, I'm not afraid of those people in
there and he said but you can't do it. I said I'm gonna go
in there and see how they're doing. So I he said, well,
I'll stay right here. If you're determined to go I'll stay
right here with you. So I went in and came back - and came
back to the office.
END OF TAPE I, SIDE 1 - 45 MINUTES
NIXON 22
TAPE I, SIDE 2
JS: OK, now you can go on.
N: And we had an offce here and each one had a desk, you
know, and I heard the awfulest clomeration you know, out
there at the door and one of the men that was working - and
I got up out of my office chair, you know, and I was
standing there and he said, "Lucille, you sit down there in
that chair" and he turned around and said to this woman,
"You are not caning another step". "Oh," she says, "if I can
get to that woman I'll pull every bit of hair out of her
head." (laughter)
N: What she wanted is for me to give her a layette for her
girl who was gonna have an illegitimate baby, and I wouldn't
do it.
JS: Give her what?
N: Gonna have a baby.
JS: Oh, a layette.
N: Give her a layette for that illegitimate girl. For a
baby, and I told her I wasn't going to do it, that the
government wasn't trying to clothe them, I was just feeding
them. And she said, "You'd better not, I'm gonna," and this
man told her don't you put your foot inside this door. And
I was coming there, I could hear it, you know, I could hear
from my office. And I knew who it was, I got up to go and
he said "You go back and sit down in that office, I'll take
care of this". And so when it came my next time to go down
NIXON 23
N: there, the superintendent wouldn't let me go without I
take somebody with me 'cause those people down there were
considered the trash of the whole country and they'd kill
me; they'd do anything to me.
JS: What kind of car did you drive?
N: What kind of a car?
JS: Uh huh.
N: Buick , I guess, I don't know. I drove more Buicks and
Chevrolets than any other kind. We were called case
workers, you know, and each case worker would have an area
of a county and that was my area. And it was supposed to
have the toughest and the worst people in the whole United
States living in that area.
JS: Did you have many illegitimate children then?
N: Oh , every day.
JS: No worse than what it is today?
N: What is it?
JS: What happened then - did they usually live with their
parents? The baby, the mother and her baby?
N: I don't know, I didn't go back any more. They told her
to leave me alone or they'd put them all in }ail. This
supervisor here said, "Don't let me hear anymore of you.
I'll have you arrested and put in jail." So I went on -
took care of my business. I didn 't have anymore trouble but
they were that kind of people, you know they'd do anything,
oh, they were terrible.
JS: Kinda scary. Well , Lucille, we thank you for telling
NIXON
us these things, we appreciate it.
N: You're welcome.
JS : Thank you.
Over and Out.
END OF TAPE I, SIDE 2, TEN MINUTES.
24