THE INSTITUTE OF TEXAN CULTURES
INTERVIEW WITH: Paul Patterson, Ace Reid, Cliff Teinhert
Story Tellers
DATE:
PLACE: Folklife Festival
PAUL PATTERSON
... what a real Texan looked like and a real Texan sounded like and so I said, "Any ranchers around here?" He said, ".............. Yeah, there's a couple ..... on down the road aways." I says, you know how Texans are, "How big is it?" He says, "It's only two thousand square miles." And so he figured that if that wouldn't impress a Texan, he hurried on to tell me that Victoria River Downs on northwest of there was ten thousand square miles. Incidently, the King Ranch Enterprises of Texas operates two million acres of that now, I guess that's the horse trough. Anyhow, got on out there and after that, I said, "How many cattle's it run?" " ...... Can't say how many beasts he's got, he hasn't mustered in two years. Too bloody dry." And so after that I sneaked back to my bus seat, sneaked my Texas Western hat under my seat and told 'em I was from Rhode Island! (laughter)
Incidently, old man Ace, they've turned down old man Ace, this is incredible. Down Under, they work cattle exactly like they do ... like in old man Ace's day. They would butcher one of their own beasts, ...... moving a mob of bullocks just like they do here in Texas. You know, they sometimes even late as 30 years ago, they trailed cattle for six months, they call them a mob of bullocks. Old man Ace, because of his expert horsemanship, they said they'd put him on Victoria River Downs and he says, "Well, boys, if we're going to ....... go out and round us up a remuda of horses. And my, the blokes went out and mustered a mob of bumbies and so first herd he ....... to the pen they yawed at the mob and first ..., oh yeah, old man Ace, he ... I'm getting ahead of my story ... but everything he told him to do he'd do it but they had another name for it.
And so old man Ace finally he told the cooks down there just like the way they were here, they were a bloody lot that didn't listen. So one time this cook he was cooking, you know, Ace knows he was - he's old enough to know how cranky old-time wagon cooks were. So this boss, the boss drover, says to this cook, he says, "I say, sometimes the bloke wouldn't even bother to light a fire." So he said one time to the cook, he says, "I say, I wish you would fix a hot breakfast now and again." And so the cooks says, "So it's a hot breakfast you wish, is it?" Says, "I tell you, mate, see the boss drover over there, get him to bring up a tin of mustard and you can have a hot breakfast any day you bloody like!" Anyhow, that was the last straw for old Ace, so he caught him a bumbie, rolled his swag, ate his last bite of ........ and he went out in the bush, down the track.
When he ... old Ace ... yeah, another thing that got on his nerve, he'd tell 'em to "head 'em up the trail" and they P. Patterson, A. Reid, C. Teinhert
3
would "head 'em down the track," but they'd be going in the same direction. That was all he could stand, so he's going to take a mob of bullocks up to Wimberly, up on the northwest cape where they shipped 'em out, about a 2,000 mile drive with these 2,000 head of bullocks, gets up there and he delivers 'em and he comes back and ....
And he has a cook and what finally, the last straw for old Ace, this cook that went through ........ a little opal mining town, and the cook fell in love with the barmaid. That night, the first night out of camp they stopped at some pretty good graze and they put him on guard and so this cook went back in to this barmaid and then the next night they moved about ten miles. The next night he went back in «again. So he was going to catch the same horse and this ... old Ace says, "Don't catch that horse anymore, can't you see he's rode down?" The cook said, "Now, this is the last straw." Cook said, "'Rode down!' You don't mean 'rode down,' mate, you mean that he's 'knocked up.'" That was the last straw! Old Ace, he rolled his swag, drank his billy-bong tea, rode out into the bush and pretty soon he wound up in .............. Not for rustling cattle but Australian Constabulary finally threw old Ace in for ........ now and again. Now, ............, is a maverick! (laughter)
ACE REID SR
..... and I tell you boys, that's the truth, that old ..... P. Patterson, A. Reid, C. Teinhert
4
we've been down the same trail and don't think we haven't!
Now, I want to tell you people a little bit about a menu, what we have as a cowboy and what you would say that "you wouldn't eat that!" I been a'telling school kids about eating. Oh, they'll eat or drink a coke or ice cream cone or something like that. Well, the wagon, you get up at 4:30, the cook then hollers, "Hi yo, breakfast!" You go to breakfast, you get a cup of coffee, you get a good meal of a morning and biscuit out of a dutch oven that is really wonderful.
But there's no horses, that the night man is rounding them horse and we got a rope, just a rope. You'd be surprised, around a 150 horses and get 10 horses out of the pick. Well, I got to telling these school kids at the school one time about the way they eat. You just don't get hungry enough, when you get hungry enough ... we got after to rounding these 1,000 - 2,000 steers. We left that morning at daylight and got back about half-way at noon to headquarters where we were gonna ship these cattle. We stayed out there 6 weeks and we're telling about not ever getting throwed off a horse. I had a horse so ......., he come from south Texas ......... down here and old man Adams raised 'em and old man ... I forget his other name ...
But anyhow, I duded out in a vest and a blue serge suit - breeches, you know, and I went out and I ...... on a ranch then but I thought well, I'll go out with the wagon, that's my first go-around, I'll look pretty good. Well, he says, "Ace, P. Patterson, A. Reid, C. Teinhert
5
dinner-time, the wagon called, you stay and help hold herd." I helped hold herd and hungry! gosh, I never was so hungry in my life! Been out ever since 4:30 and then it was 12 o'clock, them boys, a bunch of 'em go eat, and then they'd come back and then you'd go. I jumped on that old sorrel horse too quick and he went to bucking and my britches come out over here unbuttoned and went astraddle of the saddlehorn, tore one leg plumb out and I didn't have another pair of britches. And the old boy said, "Go down there to the wagon, I've got a ducking pair." I went down there and got that old ducking pair and pulled on 'em and boy, howdy, did you ever see a piece of raw meat!, 'tween my legs, it took 'em 3 months for 'em to heal up. And I rode every day, I didn't miss a day!
And these kids, I tell 'em, they say, "I wouldn't drink that water, I'm ......" I tell you what I did when I was a kid a'growing up. We didn't have nothing but a barrel and it'd rain and goddang in 2 or 3 days it was full of wiggletails. Well, you couldn't blow 'em out, you had to swallow some of 'em. That's the way it was. That's the reason we're so tough. We went through everything. Our guts are just like rawhide. I can eat anything!
I can eat anything you can today! I don't care - raw potato, onion, anything. So, this nigger, I'll never forget him. Harvey was his name, Jack Harvey, he had one leg. And if you got a drink of water you had to be ahead of those steers P. Patterson, A. Reid, C. Teinhert
6
getting to that lake and that wagon where dinner was ready, if you didn't get there first, if you didn't get there first to get a drink, when you got a drink you had to strain it 'tween you teeth to get a drink, then you'd look off up there and ...... green and white and there's maggots just by the thousands, you're drinking that water, boy.
There's an old .......... where I come down that make me think one time he wanted to buy a horse. I says,"All right." He says, "I want to go on a round-up with you." I says, "All right. We'll take you." And we got to a tank in about 10 miles and he says, "Uh, I wouldn't drink that old water! Out of that tank!" And I'll guarantee you that I never drank out of nothing but a tank ... red-tank ... water til I was 21 years old. And I don't think I seen ... 18 years old before I seen a piece of ice! And I got to telling these kids all about that. And telling what they wouldn't eat. Now if you say that and don't believe me, go out there on one of them hills on that mountain and set down there about 48 hours and see what - and we'll shove a little something under your chin to eat and we'll bring you a drink of water with wiggletails in it and you'll swallow everyone of 'em! Boy, you just can't do it. I thank you! (laughter)
..............
..: Oh, before I forget, let me ....
Old Lee Reynolds, he was a little ahead of Ace even, out there P. Patterson, A. Reid, C. Teinhert
7
in King Mountain in Junction County where I was raised up, Lee Reynolds was a little more subtle about it, Ace - One time he and Lee Reynolds was pretty thirsty, pretty dry for water, you know, they'd throwed a big herd together up on King Mountain and they got to this big Boykin Tank about 3 o'clock in the evening and so they's pretty dry for water, dry for water being brought on of the thirst they'd quenched the night before in Rankin and old Lee Reynolds rode away out in there, you know, had his stirred up, Ace's cattle ...... rode out in there about oh, this deep to his horse, took his hat off, had the brim up where he could take a big, long drink of that water, that water's green like Ace said, with undertones of yellow and some brown, and so, he took a big drink of that and strained out the maggots out of his teeth so he spit the rest out and says, Charlie Lyons was with him, he says, "Charlie, I wished I had me a jug, I'd send my old mother a jug of this water." (Laughter.)
..: You bet. You bet. Where's Ace?
..: Ace quit us.
..: I don't know why he quit us, but he's got a lot of tales to tell, but I don't know.
..: Well, I'll tell one more on ... I'm gonna have to set down. I'll show you a picture a boy took ...... that'll be put on my tombstone, folks, if you ever pass it by. In Trent, Texas, when I was a little boy, my daddy had some cotton planted. Now, I want to tell you about ... did any of you ever see a P. Patterson, A. Reid, C. Teinhert
8
hoopsnake? (No. ) A hoopsnake? Does anybody ever know anything about a hoopsnake? (Nobody.) Well, I was chopping cotton one time and it was hot and my daddy told me, says, "Always, Son, chop out at the end of the row, chop around the fence line and everything." Well, I had seen a hoopsnake but I never did get one stirred up. And I'd heard about it. Well, I was digging around a post, they get down in cool spots, down in the ground. Now listen, boys, this is kind of ... may not be the truth ... but I know it is. (Laughter) So, I hit this hoopsnake and he got mad. And I knew he was mad. And way down on the other end of the row, about a quarter of a mile, there was a big oak tree, about like that yonder, a little bigger, and this hoopsnake come out unwound and I took off! And they wrap their head around the end of their tail and they got a prong sticking out, just sharp as a needle, and there's more poison in there than a hundred rattlesnakes. And he took in after me and I had about a hundred yard start, but lord, lord, that snake was a bouncing ... everytime his head would go over and come ... and he'd just right on me and I stepped behind that tree and he hit that tree and stuck that prong in that tree and it wasn't two hours until there wasn't a leaf on that tree ... it wilted! (Laughter) (It's a true story?) I can't say. (laughter)
Anybody else? You're invited, if you'd like to tell a story. Why me and old Paul will set here and listen at it. P. Patterson, A. Reid, C. Teinhert
9
..: Oh, before I forget it Ace, I want to tell a snake story.
..: Oh, he's got ...
..: I witnessed this
..: You know, my wife says I blush when I tell the truth. She says the way you can tell when I'm telling the truth, is that my eyes are crossed. (laughter) I mean, when I'm lying my eyes are crossed but when I'm telling the truth I cross my fingers. (laughter)
We're working with the McElroy wagon, that's Elmer's dad. He was running the McElroy wagon in Crane County in 1938, we asked ... while I think of it ... there's 18 men on that wagon ... show you how cowboys have changed ... there's 18 men on that wagon and there's only 3 of 'em fat. And even though ... emphasis, heavy emphasis, is on light beers now, people that are tall in the saddle every pour the .... likewise wider. You know, the bigger ... the big spreads nowdays ...... in other words that comes from these ... they say you can tell a real cowboy by his belt buckle. But, due to these 'Coors contours,' these 'Budweiser bulges,' and these 'Schlitz blitzes,' you can't see the belt buckle now. Out in the 06, out in Alpine, I went through there, this is in 1938, there were 18 cowboys with the wagon, only 3 of 'em fat. In 1978 I was going up ....... Fort Davis Road and the 06 was working and I'll be a bigger liar than Tom Pepper and he was kicked out of hell for lying, and P. Patterson, A. Reid, C. Teinhert
10
if there wasn't 18 with that wagon and there was only 3 of 'em that was skinny! And that was one of the bosse's wife. (laughter) The rest of 'em ..... these days ... in the old days the only saddle without a horn is one that I just ...... trying to ride Old Montsana, but now these bronc saddles, no horns, you know these contest bronc saddles, I thought those 06s, I thought they were all riding bronc riding saddles! Because of that 'contours,' 'countours,' hanging out over the belt buckle!
Oh, yeah, I was going to tell you a snake story! Out there we made camp every night, moved camp every night, we'd camped out there at the Horse Wells, west of where Crane is now and I was sitting there, more or less low, because it was a pretty long day, we'd got up at 3:30 in the morning, and like the old cowboy said, he went to work on this outfit, he just got to bed and they told him to get up, he said, "It sure as hell don't stay ... take long to stay all night on this outfit." That's the way it was with that outfit, I was sitting there at sundown waiting to roll out my bed and Carl .... , he was right over there about six feet from me, and I was between him and sundown, just going sundown, he unrolled his bed and out went an old prairie snake, he'd been rolled up in there and he left there really ... wasn't running, but he was doing the equivalent of it, he'd been rolled up there about 16 hours.
Now then, does anybody ... the out of state guests ... P. Patterson, A. Reid, C. Teinhert
11
I want to put everybody from out of state at ease. Now Ace is modest, he wouldn't bring this up, he's too bashful. But I'm here to dispel some rumours about Texas. You know a lot of you looking at me right now, that poor old thing, sitting there, in his rocker ... off his rocker (laughter), now that's probably another one of these typical Texans, proud, loud, low-browed, the most ...., the least ....... of anybody in the crowd! That's not me and Ace at all! Me especially. I'm quiet, polite, right, always right, and above all, modest. And rich! (laughter) Naturally you want to know how I made my money. (laughter) Three fortunes, to be exact. The first one, a cowboying a little and a herding sheep a whole lot, now I did not want to bring that up, but ... (laughter) ... I'd like to be honest. The second fortune I made - teaching school, the third fortune I'm working on now. Old age pension! (laughter)
And another thing I want to dispel, they say that Texans are hard to get along with. That isn't us at all, either. I've lived in Texas three score and ... and ten years and one and I've only been hit over the head once with a table leg and shot at one time with a shotgun. Now, being hit over the head with a table leg you wouldn't even know it unless somebody asked me a sensible question! (laughter) Now being shot at with a shotgun, now Winston Churchill, I can speak Winston Churchill with an Australian accent, but I won't use any accent here. P. Patterson, A. Reid, C. Teinhert
12
But Winston Churchill said, as regards to being shot at with a shotgun, Winston Churchill said, "The most exhilarating thing in life is being shot at without success." I even beat Winston Churchill ... he's one of the greatest orators of all time, but I'd tighten and ....... that statement, I say, "The most accelerating thing in life is being shot at without success." (laughter)
Here's what I mean, we was moving this herd to the railroad in Barnhart, incidently Barnhart used to be the biggest livestock shipping point in the United States. We was moving this herd about 50 miles into Barnhart to ship out and I was down in front of ... we'd camped to wagon for dinner, about l/2 mile from Mrs. .......'s house, gonna eat dinner there. And I was down opening the yardgate of this ranch house when that shotgun went off. And the boys said, it was just a matter of just a few fleeting seconds before I was back in camp! I'd been back even sooner if I hadn't had to stop for my horse! (laughter)
Now then, I have to keep notes because at my age I get lost and I don't know the difference. Probably you may not either, but I have to look and see.
Oh, yeah, to win the confidence of in and out of staters, and I say this in all modesty and humility, but Reader's Digest in 19 and 43, page 95, designated me as one of the biggest liars in Army, Navy, Air Force and Marines. Now I like to think it P. Patterson, A. Reid, C. Teinhert
13
was talent, but my wife says it just comes from experience and constant practice. (laughter) Anyhow, in the Army, Navy, Air Force and Marines. Now lying, to give you a simple sample, example, about lying ... I've got a sheepherders story for you.
Now, back in the old days, I was ... well, it wasn't the old days because we had air conditioning then, but ... I was riding along one day and the air conditioning went out on my saddle and ... (Your saddle?) ... and I headed out West to ....... You know, the time changes between ...... and ............ and I called in to Green Valley, and the reason they call it Green Valley is like old Ace said, "When anything dies, it turns green." Well, I wasn't dead yet, but I called up this sheepherder's camp, there were 3 sheepherders in there. One of 'em was blind, one of 'em was bald-headed, and one of 'em was normal. That is as normal as a sheepherder could be. (laughter) Actually, Normal was his name, Sub Normal. (laughter) And Sub said he had a brother named Ab and he said his brother, Ab, was twice as smart as he was, but he should have been because he had two heads! (laughter)
But anyhow Sub Normal was out ... that was back when I crossed that time zone ... instead of going back an hour it went back an hour and a hundred years and these sheepherders had to keep watch over the flocks by day and night, you know, just like Jesus did over yonder, and they watched over the flock by day and night because the Indians were bad. They would scalp P. Patterson, A. Reid, C. Teinhert
14
... the Commanches ... the Apaches out in there and the Commanches a little this side, so one night a terrible thing happened. Not only a terrible thing but a confusing thing happened. While Sub was on guard watching the flock, the Apaches slipped in and stabbed the blind man and took out old Baldy's eyes. So, Sub, even though he was Sub Normal, he could tell by the North Star that it was actually 3 minutes and 33 seconds until 3 o'clock, time for old Baldy to go on guard. So he went in and woke up old Baldy and old Baldy saw he couldn't see and so he says, "Heck, Sub, you hadn't woke me up a'tall, he woke up the blind man!" About that time he felt of his bald-head, and says, "No, I guess you must of woke us both up!" (laughter) About that time the blind man woke up, he felt his naked skull, he said, "No, you ain't woke me up, 'cause I know I'm not blind and bald-headed both!" (laughter) Now, you may not believe that and you wouldn't either if you know me. I don't much believe it myself. You wouldn't believe it either if you know me like I do.
Now, I'm gonna have a few more minutes and I'm going to turn it back over to Cliff Teinhert of Albany, Texas. Oh yeah, now, picture ...... I want to tell you about my old west connections. I'll be a bigger liar than Tom Pepper if I don't have some old west connections, not only impeccable, but incredible. My uncle, ......... , lies buried not 4 miles as the buzzard flies from the moldering remains of Billy the Kid P. Patterson, A. Reid, C. Teinhert
15
himself in Fort ...... New Mexico. If that's not enough ....... have you ever heard of Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid? How many heard of Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid? Good, alright. Listen to this. How many have ever seen those pictures of Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid in the ads? And the man is sitting down in front ... all of 'em have derbies only ... but the big, stately gentleman sitting down in front with the derby hat on was named ... we called him "The Tall Texan." He was named Ben Kilpatrick. All right then, back in 19 and 24 in Rankin, Texas, in a sparring match, his nephew beat me up. His name was Claude Kilpatrick. And he went on, Claude Kilpatrick, married the niece of Captain Frank ....... who finally brought Bonnie and Clyde to ......... Now, Claude though later on he killed himself, then the big bully that struck oil in Reagan County, a big bully by the name of Pat Moran, came over to dance at Rankin one night and he beat me up too. (laughter) Later on he went out and killed himself. So that shows I'm not a man to be monkeyed around with. (laughter)
Now, while I'm at it, I'm not aiming to brag, but I actually ... my main claim to fame is in the field of music. In 19 and 47 I hauled a piano for Lawrence Welk. Now, I'm not lying now, ... (laughter) If Lewis Gates is still living here in San Antonio he could corroborate that statement 'cause my first, fossil fuel fruits of Mother Nature .......... ............. built a big night-club up in ... out in Rankin called Rankin P. Patterson, A. Reid, C. Teinhert
16
...... And Lawrence was just starting out now. Lawrence may not remember this ....... I hauled his piano for him. As a consequence, for 3 solid weeks, every night I got to dance free. And being a saintly boy at 17, I always flipped a coin on Sunday night to see whether I went to services or danced to the music of Lawrence Welk. Sometimes I'd have to flip that coin 3 or 4 times! (laughter)
And another thing now. I ain't aiming to brag, but I was pretty good at dancing myself. Now, in those days a man held on to his partner while dancing. In my case, it stood me in good stead 'cause I didn't ...... you could always jump out the nearest window and escape. (laughter) But the Flea hop, the Toddle and the Charleston, I was good at all of 'em. In fact, I can't do any of 'em now except the Toddle! (laughter) I do that all the time, trying to walk. Anyhow, the Flea hop, all it was ... what you would call ... you know, you just jump up and down, what you'd call a hop ... foxtrot. Now the Flea hop was something else. I'd demonstate if I could, but the Flea hop was on the order of a "ants in the pants" dance. (laughter)
Now, I'm gonna relinquish this in just a minute to my partner, but I may have time for one more. Okay, one more if you'll bear with me.
END OF TAPE 1, SIDE 1, ABOUT 30 MINUTES.
SIDE 2.P. Patterson, A. Reid, C. Teinhert
17
................
..: Can your credulity stand one more ... one more of my connections? (You bet. .......) All right. Now, this'll strain your credulity but this ... I'm telling the truth again, you've all heard of Frank and Jesse James. All right, in 19 and 33, there's a semi-bare footed president of the Pioneer Club at Sul Ross Texas, a ...... I was presented a pair of boot-shoes ... you know, when old-timers got old, why they'd cut the tops off of boots and they'd just have shoes made on the boot style. All right. I was presented with a pair of boot-shoes that belonged to the brother of the brother-in-law of Frank and Jesse James. All right. (I believe it.) The brother was Tom Palmer. The brother-in-law was Alan Palmer who used to be with Pancho's Guerrillas, brother-in-law of Frank and Jesse James. The person that presented me with those boot-shoes was Mrs. Alan Palmer, Frank and Jesse's own sister, at the request of Mrs. Frank James, Frank's widow. She saw I was nearly bare-footed and she always called me "That little Dutchman." Now, I just throwed that in to brag a little and let you know I have some big connections. (laughter)
All right, one more now, I'm going to save the next one 'til the last day 'cause it's a really nice one. I live next d▐oor to ............. who is the Deputy Sheriff and City Marshall of Crane, Texas, distant relative of Wyatt. And I ain't aiming to brag but I helped Uncle ....... make an arrest P. Patterson, A. Reid, C. Teinhert
18
on a ex-semi ... not semi but super tough ex-cowboy by the name of Bert ........ I deem it only fair to confess however, that all I had to do was stand on Bert's coattails while Uncle ...... went around and got the patrol wagon to load him in. I deem it only fair to confess that Bert was drunker than 17 hootowls in a thicket full of Sioux Indians the night after Custer's last stand. Now then, that's so much for my connections.
................
..: ..... I've got 2 or 3 more minutes. Now, oh yes, in the past to establish a man as being truthful you have to tell something painful from your past. I've already told that about my being not much of a cowboy; couldn't ride very much. Let me tell you something painful from the present. I like Howard Cossell. (laughter - boo!) I like Howard Cossell. Now Don Meridith is alright, but all he knows is one note for one line of "the party is over." I like Howard Cossell. Now then. If it's any consolation to you I'm not in love with Howard Cossell. Now I can't think of anything worse than liking Howard Cossell except being in love with Howard Cossell.
Now, I would like to tell you why I'm cross-eyed. It's an 8 minute story full of adventure, romance, suspense, pain and I'll tell that tomorrow. If you're still here tomorrow, come around at this time and I'll tell you why I'm cross-eyed. It's a sad tale and yet I believe you'll get some inspiration from it.P. Patterson, A. Reid, C. Teinhert
19
Now, I'm calling Cliff Teinhert. Cliff, it's your time now. And don't let Cliff run a bluff on you, he's from out West too. (applause) Cliff ...
I appreciate you being with us. Come around tomorrow, sure enough, I want to tell you ... while you're leaving though, this is not a lie, it's documented down here at Joske's or was ... when I was a kid, I moved 36 times in a covered wagon. It's in a book called "Crazy Women and Ranchers." You can buy it down here at Joske's and I say this in all modesty, you ..... is a very moving book, if you call 36 times in a covered wagon moving. It's also a funny book, that is, if you can call sleeping in sleet, snow, eating cornbread and molasses. Funny, why it's a funny book, but mainly what I like about it is, there's only one dirty word in the whole book and it's on the last page. You know, back "Gone with the Wind," they wrote a book 11 hundred pages long, you know back there when Rhett Butler on the very last page, 1200 page or something, it shocked people nearly out of their boots, he told Scarlett, the very last thing he said, "Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn." Now, on the very last word, the "Crazy Women and Ranchers," I do the same thing. Sir, here's woman that read the book, she went all the way through it. Well, I guess she stopped, maybe, to take a nap or two. But anyhow, on the very last page now, it's actually not a dirty word, but it's a semi-dirty word. Even a semi-dirty word was too much for my oldest sister who is a Hard-shelled P. Patterson, A. Reid, C. Teinhert
20
Baptist. But, ......... was the name of the horse and whoever heard of a horse with an alias. And actually, I called a horse one time a worse name than that, well, he throwed me off and nearly broke my neck, but I was at least 40 miles from town and in a forty-section pasture. Well, I gonna turn it over, here he is now ... Pardon me, Cliff, took too much of your time, I think. It's all yours now.
CLIFF TEINHERT.
CT: I don't know any of the old-time stories like Ace and his daddy and Paul do. I might tell you a story or two. ...... these are true stories now, you know, ........
Got a good friend up there, all he does he fishes up there on the Clear Fork, up there in Throckmorton County, up there at ........ Throckmorton is about ... oh, 60 miles north of Abilene ... And Old Clear Fork has got some awful good fish in it. And this old guy sold ....... for .......... for years and years and old John Bennett and he lives, just flat lives, up there on that river. He said that he's the only man that's walked both sides of that river for ....... walked that whole river out. Both sides of those banks. Well, he was in World War I, and right there before he went off to war he decided he was going to have a fishing trip and went off up there to spend a week up there. He left his pocket watch, a gold pocket watch that had ..... had a chain on it and he was off up there fishing and does a lot of flyrod fishing he gets up on the bank, P. Patterson, A. Reid, C. Teinhert
21
says you gotta sneak up on them fish, and he'll paint his face with black and put on his camouflouge clothes and all that ... flyrod ... catch them big old channel fish, 8 to 10 pounds, ...... 80s now, I guess. But anyway, he ... going off to war there, he spent that week up there fishing. And he lost his pocket watch and that thing had a chain on it and it had a hook on the end of the chain there and never did find that watch. Lost it off the river there while he was flyrod fishing.
And he come back from the war, he was gone 2 years, ... over there in Europe .... and he got back home and the first thing he wanted to do was go back up there fishing. And he spent another week up there and caught a 10 pound yellow-cat and man, he had a devil of a time getting him in there, and he pulled him in, pulled that fish in there and he noticed something shining there in the corner of that old fish's mouth, and is was that chain, that hook on there ... caught right there in that fish's mouth, that hook was right there. And that watch had lodged right back there in that fish's gills and he said that thing only lost 2 minutes in all that 2 years, he said that old fish's gill kept that old watch wound up! (laughter) That's a true story.
And he said the biggest fish he ever saw up there, caught up there on the Clear Fork, up there at Fort Griffin, and this fish was caught inside a chicken pen. The river got up real big and a 70 pound yellow-cat had walked over there inside that P. Patterson, A. Reid, C. Teinhert
22
chicken pen and went out there and the river went back down and the chickens out there just squawking away and raising all kinds of Cain. And he went out there and the danged old fish just flopping in that mud, just laying there flopping. And he said, now, if I never told the truth, that was the truth! That old big fish ....... right up there and caught him and took him to the house and dressed him out. ...... fish. But old John lived up there on the Clear Fork for years and years and that's all he does is fishes. I guarantee he can tell you some fish stories!
Well, let's see here, I have a story here for you all. I'm trying to think up a good one here. Did you tell 'em any lies, Paul?
PP: I'm leaving the lies to you Cliff.
CT: Well, I don't know any lies ......
PP: I'm a straight-out truthful man.
CT: Do what? ... Well, ....... told me a story awhile ago that I've heard before - about his hunting dog - said that he had this old dog and he was the smartest dog that he ever saw. That he could point birds, he could retrieve 'em, he could go duck hunting, he'd go in the water, anything you wanted him to do. He said that whenever you'd go get your rifle or anything, he go out there, if you wanted to hunt deer, he said, he'd be ready to go, he'd know exactly what you're gonna do. He said, get your shotgun, boy, he'd get out there, he'd go P. Patterson, A. Reid, C. Teinhert
23
to pointing and he'd go over there and get his quailbag, bring it to him, whatever he wanted to do. He said that dog got to be so smart, he said when he went to get his fishing pole, he said he'd get that fishing pole down off the wall and that old dog would run up there ahead of him to the creek and when he got up there, he'd have a can of worms dug for him! (laughter) (applause) I don't believe that story. (Tell a lie!) (applause)
I don't know much of anything I got to tell these folks, Paul.
PP: I run out. I'll have to go back to the well, Cliff. .......
CT: You guys storytellers? ...... You want to tell a story?
PP: Tell 'em some of your cowboy adventures, Cliff. Now you worked for the Reynolds' haven't you, Dave .... ?
CT: I'll tell you a true story that happened up there.
PP: Yeah, go ahead. They'd like to hear that, a lot of people never have been in cowworks.
CT: Ain't something that you can get into ... think you ... get up in there and they're awful gentle ... I raised longhorns up there ... got a bunch of longhorns ...
PP: Uh-huh.
CT: ... and these old cows, most ....., and they're just as gentle as a dog and you can put out feed right there and they'll walk up to you and you can feed right out of your hand. Had P. Patterson, A. Reid, C. Teinhert
24
a bull that kept getting out and he wouldn't jump the fence but he'd jump across the cattle-guard. Walk up there, stick his head up there and lean forward and away he'd go.
PP: Uh-huh.
CT: And try to feed ... back in there and get him back through the gate where - he'd found him some girl-friends over there and he just wouldn't come back in. So I got my horse, this was about three weeks ago, and got up early one morning. Been so danged hot up there you can't do 'em after you get up in the heat of the day, and brought 'em back over across there and brought 'em back out the gate, brought 'em back over there to the trap and put 'em in there.
The old bull got to ..... got him off up there ...... he went .... got down in the tank, he'd go across the neck of that tank and go plumb out of sight, get in that water and you couldn't even see him .... nose out and blow, throw his head up and blow and he'd walk on out the other side .... in the background, two or three times, he'd do the same thing, go back across that neck, well, I guess he got all of it that he wanted and I brought him back around there another time and that wise old horse, he was a good old horse and you could do about anything you wanted to on him. But he was not too speedy, but he was a lot faster horse now, anyway.
That old bull came back around there and he expected to get up there to that water. He just walked up towards me, went P. Patterson, A. Reid, C. Teinhert
25
to ...... like this, directly here he come, I knew that something bad was fixing to happen, I turned this ...... horse around and that bull was a lot faster than that horse, anyway, he hooked that horse in the rear-end and he got a hole in that horse, about as deep as your hand, got one horn in that deep, just about that long, and it made a lot faster horse out of him. (laughter) You can't even get up close to an old bull now, man, I'll tell you what, that old horse he'd go back the other way. (laughter)
PP: You know Cliff, out there, they're the most interesting cattle I believe in the world. And they date so far back that out there ........ he likes to ... he was going to raise him some roping cattle, you know, got him six longhorn bulls and mixed them up with those other cattle, and when he got him some longhorn calves, he'd just run 'em a little and the legs would turn to ......., you know, he traded all his bulls off. ........ temperamental ... they're gentle but you don't just .....
CT: Oh, yeah, they're gentle but I guarantee ......
PP: I'll bet if you'd 'chouse' one I'd make sure it'd get you.
CT: A lot of people ranching now, you know, put those longhorn bulls on ........ after the first calf, after ..... don't have any problems calving and all, a lot of people ......
PP: Oh, yeah, they're beautiful cows .......
CT: ...... feed out of your hand ....
PP: Uh-huh.P. Patterson, A. Reid, C. Teinhert
26
CT: ....... accustom to you ..... you get in a jam ....
PP: What's the longest spread of horns on those you got; you got any ...
CT: Oh, I've got ...... steer, they're the biggest, you know, you cut them when they're young ...
PP: Uh-huh.
CT: ........ got some cows that have about 42, 44 inch horns spread and I got a bull that has a 44 inch horn spread.
PP: Well, they're all colors, I'll bet.
CT: Yeah, all colors.
PP: They're beautiful cattle.
CT: Yeah.
PP: Uh-huh.
CT: ...... and when you turn these cattle out, say you put 'em with a different kind of cattle, they won't have anything to do with 'em, they're just like birds, take a red-bird or black-bird, they'll hang together, you know the saying "birds of a feather flock together?", that's just the way those cattle are. They won't have anything to do with any other cattle. You might find one get in a bunch with 'em, but they won't themselves hang with any other kind of cattle, they'll pick out their own. I've never have seen any other cattle that'll do like that.
PP: Well, I'll swan, they never do mix up with 'em ...
CT: Yeah, Paul, they will, you know, ........ but as far as P. Patterson, A. Reid, C. Teinhert
27
the herd, they'll seek out their own; what reason I don't know.
PP: Well, I'll swan.
CT: It's just the way ..... cattle evolved here in South Texas, you know, it's just the way they've bred through the years cause 'em to do that, I guess.
PP: Uh-huh.
CT: But I've put some cross-breds in there and they'll try to get in there with 'em, well, they'll run 'em plumb off and now they've got cross-breds, they're bred ... they're crossed with Herfords, they won't .... they'll run 'em plumb out of the herd, and they'll make 'em stay off to themselves, they won't even keep any other kind in there with 'em.
PP: Well, I'll swan, that's something I didn't know. Tell me a horse story, Cliff. You know horses do some incredible things once in a while - did you ever have anything special ... you ever been hurt much with horses?
CT: About what?
PP: You ever been hurt with horses much, working cattle?
CT: Oh, yeah. I guarantee you anybody's on a horse ... I'll guarantee they've been hurt, you know. That ... anybody's ever had anything to do with a horse has been hurt. I'll guarantee they'll hurt you. I don't care if it's one you think is gentle ..... they're gonna hurt you ...
PP: Yeah, if you work long enough you're gonna get hurt one P. Patterson, A. Reid, C. Teinhert
28
of these days.
CT: .... horse very long, I'll guarantee you've been bucked off ....
PP: That's right. (laughter)
CT: We got a show up there in Albany called the "Fandangle" ...
PP: Uh-huh. I've heard of it ... maybe I've seen it.
CT: It's a two-hour long show we do up there every summer and it's the last two week-ends in June every year. But anyway, it tells about how our country was settled up there, it tells about first how the Indians were on the land and how the settlers came in, the military, outpost there, we have a scene in there we bring an old chuckwagon out there and have a calf branding, rope a calf out there and have a calf branding, and then we bring thirty head of longhorn steers right up there on the stage ... Anyway, to start off this show with a flag parade, and I carry the United States flag, I'm the first one and the horses criss-cross, I mean, we've had some bad wrecks ...
PP: Yeah, it's pretty reckless ...
CT: ... Yeah, we've .... in '76, right at the last night, there was two boys that kept ........ they got a little bit too close together and had to run 'em wide open ... and one horse it killed him outright, it broke his neck, they was run together, and the other one, they ... laying out there on the stage, had to slip him off ... out there ... didn't know what they were gonna P. Patterson, A. Reid, C. Teinhert
29
do with him, it knocked his shoulder plumb ... just knocked it plumb out and had to put him to sleep. That was a bad wreck.
PP: Uh-huh. You know, before your time, Cliff, I had a good friend went down there and worked for Reynolds or some big outfit down there and he was dragged to death ... he'd roped something and got down and some way another got the rope around his wrist and this horse dragged him ... dragged him to death. His name was Lester Beecham, that was way back in 1921 - '22, I guess.
CT: Yeah.
PP: Just dragged him until there wasn't anything left, this horse ran and ran and ran ...... horses give out and of course, he was there by himself, they pay .........
CT: ..... Bill Brett, hear that ........
PP: Yeah, uh-huh.
CT: Here a few years ago, his son ....... old horse fell off that tank on to him, killed him here ... that's only been a couple of years ago ...
PP: Well, I declare.
CT: .... that guy up there in Albany here it's been quite a few years ago got into a situation just like you were talking about, rope got hung up and he got off his horse and rope hung to him, drug him, ..... old horse got scared .... flopping back there, you know, and I'll tell you what, it was bad. They didn't find much of him.
PP: But you know, I did a lot of research on horses and wrote P. Patterson, A. Reid, C. Teinhert
30
an article about it and the first four black horses I did research on, black horses are bad new because the first four black horses I did research on somebody'd been killed on.
CT: .... black horses?
PP: I don't know, black just being hard luck, you know, Jake McClure, world's champion calf roper, ...
CT: Yeah.
PP: Black horse killed him, I forgot that old horse's name ... Black horse killed him. And then there's the cowboy down there below Rankin with Harris' that had a horse called "Four-time Black." He was coming off a little mountain down there, he was a real cowboy and he was really ... he was a good rider and everything else, but he didn't tighten his cinch coming off this mountain, this was a little old black horse, pretty little, and some way or another the saddle turned and he got his foot hung in the stirrup and this horse drug him to death. He was a big man and had big boots, they took his boots off there and ....... he died, and I guess thirty years after that we was riding in that pasture and there was one of his boots - looked like a baby's boot, drawn up, you know, the sun. And now let's see, there's a black horse over at Stockton that killed a boy and then ... I can't remember the other ... the other black horse. All of them involved in somebody getting killed. Of course other horses has killed, too.
CT: Yeah.P. Patterson, A. Reid, C. Teinhert
31
PP: There's a lot of things that if Cliff can think of 'en tonight, there's a lot of interesting stories. Oh yeah, there's old Cliff Ewing, there was a windmill out there ...
..: .....
..: ... now you be thinking while I tell this!
..: Sit down right there.
..: ...... There you go.
PP: Now a lot of these true stories are a lot better than lies! ....... did you hear about these black horses I was telling about? You heard that. Well, a lot of research ... now, I'll tell this .... he tells the story, Cliff's dad now he lived to be 92 years old but his windmill out there was making noise and he looked ...... Maxmilian's gold out there in ......... looked for it for 50 years and was always "just a day away" to finding it. He died before he found it and now, this is the truth, I know where it is and if I ever need it I'll dig it up.
Well, old Cliff said that up on Carver Hill, that's north of Odessa, they bought his boy a saddle, it was going to be his 13th birthday, but he hid it up in the barn 'cause he didn't want his boy to ride it until after his 13th birthday 'cause it would be hard luck. His boy found it on his birthday and saddled up to take a ride and had some kind of accident and he was killed. I don't know what color his horse was, I'd like to think it was black. P. Patterson, A. Reid, C. Teinhert
32
Anyhow, some other cowboys, nobody'd ride this black ... this horse ... and finally and old cowboy came along, well, the Carver Hill was a .... ranch, it was a big outfit in those days, and the old boy said, "Aw, that's a bunch of bull." So the ...... "I'm gonna ride that horse ... he's a goodlooking horse." Says, "There's no such thing as luck. I'm gonna ride that horse and rope a calf." So he did and he did and that horse he got ...... and that horse killed him. Now what'd be the name of that story? "Case of the Homicidal Saddle?" Or would it be "...... Phobia", you know that's the fear of 13. The only reason I know what that means is 'cause I was interested in it and I looked it up. Now that's all I know, Cliff.
CT: Well, I can't believe that ..... (laughter)
......
END OF TAPE 1, SIDE 2, ABOUT 30 MINUTES.