THE INSTITUTE OF TEXAN CULTURES
Community Meeting - Lubbock
INTERVIEW WITH: Irma Guerra, Marianna Garcia
Adena Romo
DATE: 16 October 1994
PLACE: St. Joseph's Church, Lubbock, Texas
INTERVIEWER: Cindi Gonzales
Cindi: ... 16th ... we're in Lubbock, Texas, at St. Joseph's Parish, this is Round 4 of Community Meetings, I'm Cindi Gonzales with the Institute of Texas Cultures.
In my group I have Irma Guerra, Marianna Garcia and Adena Romo.
IG: ........... I'm running right now for Justice of the Peace here from Precinct 3, which is about the largest of ............. of Lubbock. I'm from El Paso originally. I've been in Lubbock for 10 years. I belong to various organizations.
Cindi: Marianna?
MG: Marianna Garcia, ............... Association ... I'm also a secretary out at ..................... .............. I've been involved with community ................ back in '84 and with the .................... .....................
Cindi: Mrs. Romo?
AR: ....... University of ......... (Spanish) ...
..: .......
..: My name is ........... I was born and raised in Lubbock. I am self-employed as a photographer. I also own real estate that accounts for my income. And I am very actively involved in a lot of community services, such as ........ Women's Hispanic Network ... elementary program here in Lubbock ... Fiesta ........... ... a lot of civic women's organizations.
Mary G: I'm Mary Garcia. I live here in Lubbock for 20 years ... well ...
..: ........
Mary G: ... (laughter) ... forever ... anyway I have 6 children ranging from 31 to what? 16 ... and 6 grandchildren and ...
..: .......
Mary G: ... I'm interested in what they're going to be doing.
Cindi: For the record ... I find it somewhat difficult when we come out into the community because as an outsider far too often the white world has dictated to the rest of the world what will be the ......... historic perspective. This is a new attempt at the Institute to correct that sort of misinformation. And it's sort of an irony that we have 5 women in this group and ........
..: It's okay.
..: (mixed conversation and laughter)
Cindi: As I said a minute ago ... 95% of most history books and museum floors are devoted to men's contributions. And we know that we as women, the children makes a different contribution. So part of what we want to do is rectify that. We have as I said a minute ago 17 questions to try to get through. Some of them will not necessarily make a lot of sense .............. Institute and we're aware of that ... but we're Community Mtg - Lubbock - St. Joseph's Church
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hoping that the little bit that you could see on the video or the slide presentation will give you, perhaps, a feel for what we're looking at. And again, think of your own experiences as you've been in museums and what you liked and didn't like and why and just use that as part of what ........... you want now.
In terms of the exhibit as Matt said we're looking at 4 major themes. We're looking at ........ Colonial roots, the family, work and community life. First off ... do those things appeal? ... these are broad categories. There are then sub-themes that are going to run through them and the sub-themes ......... ... for example ... through the root will be religion, music, art, ......... One of the things I teach believe it or not is yerbes .................... ... as a nurse this is one of the things that I do. So it is interesting as we travel around the state to find if you are interested in having it and include it the exhibit in any fashion or if it does not appeal to anyone ... which is either way is not to make it right or wrong ... but those are just some of the sub-themes. So in terms of those big 4 categories could I just get some feed-back? And what I'd just like you to do at this point is just speak truthfully. Aurora could I pick on you ...... ?
Aurora: What were the themes ............
Cindi: Colonial, family, work, and community life ... those Community Mtg - Lubbock - St. Joseph's Church
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4 major categories. We are not looking at arranging this in a chronological fashion. There's something we're going to try a little different. If we were doing it chronologically we would perhaps start on the right with a picture of ... say ... Chitlan with Cortez and Montezuma and then we would work through to ........... and then working around and in that way come down to 1994. We don't think we're going to do that. What we're thinking is themes and within the themes there can be chronology. Alright? But we're not ... we're trying to get away from this ... just ... ... ... okay? we want more of an interactive, flowing type of museum. And we don't want it all on the walls. I'm only 46 but with my bifocals I can't see some of the stuff that's 8 foot up the wall anymore. And so you stand there doing this number and people get frustrated and walk away. So we need to correct some of that. So with those 4 things ............. put you on the spot. General appeal or just elaborate or ......?
..: You want me to tell you part of my life ..........
Cindi: Not so much .........
..: ................
Cindi: ........ You walk into our museum ... okay ... let's back up a bit and do it this way ... if you walk into any museum expecting to see ... and we're calling this exhibit for the momemt ... The Tejano Experience ... what? does that appeal? Community Mtg - Lubbock - St. Joseph's Church
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We've had strong feed-back which you saw ... ...... video? I was back here ... did you all see the part? ... okay ... the video ... what it said is that some people feel comfortable saying ......... Mexicano ... others feel the word Chicano is appropriate ... others Latino ... or Latina ... so again there is a great identity ... a great deal of identity within one community everywhere. First off ... does the word Tejano appeal to you? I mean is that the word you would chose? How do you describe yourself? You know ... on paper again ... ....... do you feel comfortable with the political affiliation of that with Chicano ... as .......... Chicano personally as an ethnic identity ... I think of it more of as a political association. Then again that's not to make it right or wrong. So ... does Tejano appeal?
..: Actually Tejano appeals to me but not ... Tejano to me doesn't appeal to me as much as Hispano or Mexicana ... Chicano does not appeal to me at all. And it just ... it might be that we're in Texas and it's a more conservative State and I always compare it to California. And it might be that's why. Now I wouldn't get angry if somebody used it ... but ... Hispano or Mexicano would appeal more to me than Tejano or .....
..: ............
..: Okay. Tejano is more .......... generation .......... but usually I go by ........Community Mtg - Lubbock - St. Joseph's Church
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Cindi: Mrs. Romo?
Romo: ............ (Spanish) ........
Cindi: With Tejano too I might interject ... we ... research ... as we look in the 18th century in San Antonio there is the emergence of a Tejano identity and that's more the reason we did pick that out because many of us think modern and we think ..........
..: Uh-huh.
Cindi: But we are finding as we research more aggressively that there was usage of the term and it did identify specifically with peoples ... so ... I mean just for what that's worth.
..: Well, to me Tejano is just a ... it's not offensive to me in any way ... it's ... to me it's just another word for a Mexican-American that lives in Texas. Chicano to me is more of a radical term and was used in the radical ... back ... I belive probably back in the '60s when everything was kinda going crazy and everything ... so ... that's the only reason why a lot of people have offense to that because it's more of a radical term. I prefer ... and then Hispana to me is more of a political ... to me ... because there are different types of ... there's Latinos ... there's Cubanos ... Puerto Ricans ... so anybody that speaks Spanish to me is a Hispano ... and to me that is more political because you're talking in numbers and numbers means power to me. So I don't have a problem with Hispano Community Mtg - Lubbock - St. Joseph's Church
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either. And so ... but ... I like Mexican-American ... so ... Mexican-American would be my answer.
..: .........
..: I consider myself full-fledged Mexican ... my Mom and my Dad are from Mexico and everything ... you know ... from the cooking and all that ... speaking and everything is Mexican you know. Chicano is maybe for young kids. Tejano ... I ... Tejano ... something new ... to me it's just new recently ... not like it's been there forever and ever ... it started what? maybe 5 ... 10 years ago or less than that?
Cindi: The commercial use of it certainly has been pushed ... yes ... in the last few years.
..: Uh-huh ... okay.
Romo: ....... (Spanish) .......
..: Just like in America ... Texas is a Texan ...
...... you know ... Tejano means ... that's a Mexican-American who lives in Texas.
..: Yeah.
Cindi: Well, partially the word was chosen because of the geographic frame of reference. Again .....
Okay, well then that's a good start. Now again ... I question you ... just broadly ... you walk into a museum ... any museum ... an exhibit or Mexican-American exhibit ... what feeling do you want to take away? ......... Community Mtg - Lubbock - St. Joseph's Church
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..: .........
Cindi: So do I hear you want an up-beat feel to it? a positive feel to it? I mean because we get both feed-backs ... so I mean ... you know ... do we want a positive message? associated ... I mean ... obviously the exhibit floors of most museums do not aggressively address the negatives ... okay? Well, I mean ... you know ... think about it ... you go to most museums you don't see the negative side ... you see this positive ... but .......... For example ... if I do a Texas Ranger exhibit connected with this ... what else ...........
..: .......
Cindi: Right. And that's how .......
..: So ........ there would be a whole story because ..........
..: Because I also feel that if ... in our history as Mexican-Americans living in the United States we have been oppressed in a lot ways ... in Texas ...
..: Definitely in Texas.
..: ... and for ... let's say someone from New York or from other States in the United States ... they can say ... Well, why aren't the Mexican people more up-beat? why don't they have things going their way? Then you have to address the past ... for what it is ... because the past has made us what we are today. And a lot of it has been oppression ... that ... you know ... you've been kept down because of this ... because Community Mtg - Lubbock - St. Joseph's Church
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at first is the Texas Rangers like you said ... they don't ... and you know ... different events that have happened throughout our generations and so ... we have to address the history .......
..: ....... housing .......
Cindi: Are many of you in the room familiar with Yolanda Romero? ... up here in Lubbock area? She did a ........... thesis and she brought a tape of Mexican-American frontier experience in 20th century northwest Texas and ......... last year in '93 and we've use it as a resource piece to draw from and she makes some very good points in terms of the difference between the Lubbock ...... area as opposed to the Valley ... as opposed to say Houston ... and we were aware before we began our travels that each area would have its own flavor ... that El Paso perhaps would feel more like .......... perhaps ............ The Valley surprised us a bit with some of the responses we got there. But again not to say yea or nay ... it just surprised us with some of the responses ... but Yolanda Romero's thesis could not if you're not familiar with it ... you might want to ........... I think a well-done, balanced piece in that respect ... but she talks about for example ... COMA ... COMA ... C-O-M-A ... that political group LULAC ... and some of the changes in the ........... ... I was in the GI Forum ... things like that. So while we're on the political field ... with having a political ........ ..............Community Mtg - Lubbock - St. Joseph's Church
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..: .............. (laughter) .........
Cindi: Well, back to the message ... I need to hear a little bit more about ... what should the message be? ... of this exhibit ... I mean we're looking at theoretical history that in essence starts ... well ... prior to the Spanish arrival ... I mean ... if you're looking at Mexico we will need to look at ......... ... the African influence ... the indigeneous Indian influence ... and the Europeans ... all 4 of those cultures coming together to create what we now know in current times as the Mexican-American. Should we? I guess while ...... addressing the question of mestizo ... is that ............... How do we get from one point to another without the explanation of mestizo ... and the introduction of a whole new child ... if you would ... of the new world by these cultures coming together? I mean we need to get some place to start on? But how far back do you think we should go?
..: Well, I think you should go as far back as you need to go. I don't think you need to make it as a big thing ... you know ... I mean it's like ... yeah, explain that part ... but at the same time there are other things that are more important ... yeah, that's important ... ..... that's not inportant at all ... state it at some part in the theme but don't let that take ... the whole thing.
..: Control over ...Community Mtg - Lubbock - St. Joseph's Church
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..: ..........
..: ........... just a small portion of it and begin with the ........
Cindi: And remember ... I'm hear to play the devil's advocate ... I'm not arguing with you either ... it's just to get you to give me your gut feelings ... ........... How would you impart that information? Again ... one of the things about museums is that's awful ... is the walls ... is that it is behind glass ... so I mean ... just what format would you use? Just think for a moment and if something comes up in a minute ... throw it out at me. Mary Lou, any comments about mestizo or the fact that you would include ........
Mary Lou: I would go back ... you know ... Columbus days ... when Columbus came and discovered ... thinking that this was the New World and ... you know ... use that as a beginning. Because you know that's when Spanish ... you know ... more or less ...
..: They ............. New World?
..: The Indians ...
(mixed conversation)
Mary Lou: They came and destroyed ..........
(mixed conversation)
Cindi: Yes .. we like to teach them about the three Gs which was ... looking for gold ... bringing the glory of the Catholic Community Mtg - Lubbock - St. Joseph's Church
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Church ... glory of God ... but then we also remind them of the three Ds ... death ... disease and destruction. And that the two can't ... can't ..........
Okay, then we are in agreement that we have ... we need to honor the past by at least acknowledging ...
..: Right.
..: Oh, yeah.
Cindi: ... and we cannot ignore that. Because one of the arguments that we get is we have a whole section on Native Americans ... if that whole section is devoted to Native Americans then why do you have .... this Tejano portion need to reiterate some of that? Well, if you don't have something to tie it all together or at least the beginnings ... so I mean this is part of the thought process we are ... Also we're thinking many things interactive ... we are the generation ... most of us in this room ... well, all of us obviously ... we've seen computers come and ...... the way of the future ... but everything can't be computerized ... one of the things that Laurie and I are interested in is called the Gallery Theater ... so that at least we'll have a ........ play on el Dio los mortos ... where we present it that time of the year and it is a teaching format to share with the public one small aspect that some Mexican-American people may follow. This is not to say ....... that everyone follows ........... but within some Community Mtg - Lubbock - St. Joseph's Church
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communities or some families it is still a ritual that binds ... what keeps the family together ... so that Gallery Theater has become a teaching tool. But not everyone ... not everyone learns the same way. You might be a visual learner ... Mrs. Romo might be more dedicated to sitting and reading and pulling out numbers and statistics that way ... we each have different means that we learn through. So what we need to do is to address ........... Which musuems that you've been to appeal to you and why? Was there ... what is because you could touch something? You know ... I mean ... what?
..: .........
Cindi: Yes. And yet many of those will be based on the things that you the community give us ... as feed-back. For example ... if we keep the jacal structure ... then in there do we leave the artifacts that would be relative to the maternal culture ... in terms of the molcajete ... the ....... ... the metate ... .......... that we use for ... like for drinking the water ... things of that nature ... There's a whole section that we do on ......... ... how much corn ............ Mexico and South America ....... there is a ... other areas for example with the dioramas where they are not touchable ... but what we're doing if you the public think it is worthwhile is ... Mary Lou you'll be able to walk up next year and punch a button under this diorama and a light will come on one one figure and perhaps Community Mtg - Lubbock - St. Joseph's Church
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it is the woman at the horno putting the bread in ...
Mary Lou: Uh-huh.
Cindi: ... and her voice will say ... I am ... you know ... selling ..... today ... and she'll talk about something and what we're trying to do ............. we're going back to like documents from the 17 ... 18 hundreds and pulling out stories ... probate journals ... probate from when people died ... ........... ... so we're trying to make it as personal as opposed to ... yeah, they did that. It is now you ... talking to the kids ... so that one of the venues we're looking at also is interactive videos. For example ... we might come to Lubbock and interview each of you ladies and then the children or an adult comes out and we have listed for that ... uh ... just for the heck of it I'm just gonna say women who contributed to Lubbock ... and if they like the sound of the name ....... when I punch up ....... her face comes on there will be set questions that they then can feed in ... it has to be programmed ... but I guess a person can then in essence interview you ... based on these questions that we hope to pull from the community is what we ... questions ... .......... You know ... does that appeal to you?
..: Yes ... good idea.
..: Uh-huh. Kind of visual.
..: And that makes it even more fun ... more personal.Community Mtg - Lubbock - St. Joseph's Church
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..: I found museums like that in South Texas ...
Cindi: Okay.
..: ... and they even had a mummy there ... but they were showing about how something was built ...
Cindi: Okay.
..: ... and you'd just push it and the Indians would come in and then the Indians would disappear ...
Cindi: Right.
..: ... I think it was a whole tribe that disappeared there and they don't know what happened to it ... you know ... but it was so funny ... you know ... you walk in and then you're going ... how long ... and ..... these things ... you just push it there. But you see ... that looks pretty nice ... it lights up like you said.
Cindi: See because one of the things is that high-tech scares a lot of people. Now our children are obviously of the generation where it's second nature to them ... that's one of the ......... until these kids grow up ... until the Nintendo generation really gets a little older we're not going to change some of the teaching techniques that we use. We still in this country use that old Germanic ... I am the teacher ... you're the vessel ... I feed to you.
..: (laughter)
Cindi: And ......... it really is. So that it will take Community Mtg - Lubbock - St. Joseph's Church
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a whole generation an we're beginning those things little by little but that's one reason that we're looking at the use of ....... high-tech ... but we don't want to make it all computer.
..: Uh-huh.
..: Well, I mean ... if that's the case also have somebody there to answer questions ...
..: ........
..: ... a tour guide ... not a ... a tour guide that knows ....
..: .......
..: ... you know ... who's bilingual and ... you know ... anybody who speaks English as first language can ask them about ... you know ... or can hold a conversation with them.
..: Well, either that or more like a story-teller.
..: Yeah.
Cindi: Okay.
..: You know somebody who'll ... oh, look, this is what happened and ... but somebody that's going to make you feel so comfortable that you can say ... oh, what happened during this period of time?
..: Exactly.
Cindi: Well, we're on the right train then because we use interpreters on the exhibit floor now and we are costumed in different areas ... as was shown some of the slides there. Community Mtg - Lubbock - St. Joseph's Church
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We do not do such ........ perhaps as we could ... the single problem was not a second language with the Spanish ... but in our third ... actually we have more visitors from Germany than we have Central Mexico and we're keeping statistics ....... different ........ but if we just lump people in ... most of our visitors come from outside the United States ... foreign-wise ... but not inclusive of Mexico ... we don't tend to draw a great deal ...
..: Well, maybe then that's a place where the museum could make it more accessible to the community out there versus ... you know ... scholars that are coming in from Germany ... you know ... bring in school children ... bring in the school children's parents to ask ... I mean a lot of times they don't have time to go visit a museum ... even though they live across the street from the museum ... you know ... they don't know what's there.
Cindi: But it can't ... not to make this a big point ... but I wish to speak very frankly with you ladies ... we're still a very much white-dominated world ... the museum world ...
..: Uh-huh.
Cindi: ... what we have to do is combine that and get ... ......... people which I'm including you right now ... and I don't mean to sound like ... hokey ... but I live on the South side of San Antonio in a barrio ... I'm one Anglo in Community Mtg - Lubbock - St. Joseph's Church
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.............. I mean ... yeah ... that I go in my front yard ... ........ people come and they pick from my ........ and stuff ... so I mean we are very close-knit little body ... we're really truly are. But again ... those are not the people that normally come to museums ... so how do I go out and reach ... regular people? I mean ... it's true ... in the Black community ... okay ... it is true ...... community ... and it is true in the ......... community ... but we're having a great deal of ............ ... and yet you do not see that represented .......... This is one reason that the contemporary section ... for what we're ... for the lack of a better word right now ... in community life ... we're hoping that ... to become a very contemporary or as much ....... contemporary ........ One of the suggestions this morning ................ we met at the ........ Ranch out of town with a group of people more from the migratory standpoint ... and one of things that came up consistently there was voting ...of the empowerment that one gets when you are educated to vote ... so I was thinking ... what could we do with a voting booth? ... that would ....... interactive ... that when ... you the public ... walked in ... you know ... if I had certain ... do I want to do my groups like COPS or LULAC or MALDEF ... I mean ... you know ... or what would I put in there? But I also ... I'm thinking ... gee, that would be neat to go into this voting booth ... because Community Mtg - Lubbock - St. Joseph's Church
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even the small children who are not of age yet ... you know ... it's a big rush to step in there their first time ... and you'll learn a whole generation who is beginning to get ready to have that vote.
..: You know the other day when we were over at my house having ............. ... were voting for .......
..: Right.
..: ... and they said that people used to ... and they say in this neighborhood ... stand in long lines waiting for their turn ........ ... that's just the Mexican-American way at that time ... ............. those are the things that they should ... families should ........ ... so this community used to have a huge political Mexican-American ........ group ... now it does and it doesn't ... what ..... voting influence ........
..: .........
Romo: ........ (Spanish) ...
END OF SIDE 1, ABOUT .. MINUTES.
SIDE 2.
Cindi: This is side 2, second session of the Lubbock meeting at St. Joseph's Church. Question we are about to address is ... do feel that there are traits or characteristics that bind Tejanos ... Mexicanos ... together and if so what are some of those traits or characteristics? Mary Lou would you start for Community Mtg - Lubbock - St. Joseph's Church
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us?
Mary Lou: Eating.
Cindi: What ... okay ... eating ... will you talk about eating? ... can you just expand on that for me a little bit?
..: Like what? tortillas?
Cindi: I mean ... just talk to me ... yeah.
..: Cook your rice ... beans ... mole ... nopales ... (laughter) I don't do tamales ... (laughter) ...
Cindi: Okay ... so a trait for you is food.
..: Yes ... ..........
Cindi: ...... A characteristic or flavor ...
..: That's how my kids look at me.
Cindi: Okay. (laughter)
..: Momma and they ...... (laughter) ... anybody ....... that's food.
Cindi: Okay. Well that's ...... food does bind us together. If you look at who sits next to you at a table ... is it a round table? is it a square table? what's the occasion that we're sitting down to eat? so food is a very important binding element for all cultures. It ... one of the things that we considered is in a modern store-front area ... again there is no typical store owner ... so that we might have a bakery and one of the things that we considering was putting out the aromas ... like the pandusa ... which can be done now ... again it's Community Mtg - Lubbock - St. Joseph's Church
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sort of a memory-maker plus it draws you in. So it is interesting that food is one because it's being considered ...
..: Yes.
Cindi: ... and we just don't know if we're over-playing it or if someone will say ... ah ... where's your political booth ... this is so much more important.
..: In fact I would ... I would think that one of the most important binding traits would be in like ...... bread ... like your tortilla. Because from El Valleo all the way up here ... now they're probably in New York ... they know what a tortilla is.
..: ..........
..: Yeah ... ......... or whatever. They know what a tortilla is. And they start from the very beginning making it with their hands and rolling it and stuff ... to having their own tortilla little machines ... that makes ... that's all it makes is tortillas ...
..: ........ (laughter)
..: Now you can store-buy them ... they come in ziplocks too. (laughter) So ....
Cindi: Any other besides just food that comes to mind? Another trait or characteristic that binds Tejanos?
..: I would say ... you know ... their celebrations ... dancing ...Community Mtg - Lubbock - St. Joseph's Church
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Cindi: Okay ... I want to go into that in just a momemt so let's just finish the ......... I've got a whole section on rituals or celebrations that bind also. Mrs. Romo?
Romo: ..... (Spanish) ........
(mixed conversation and laughter)
..: .... everytime that you're walking out they ... I remember ............ you know ......... it was ... in my house it was ... there was always a cross somewhere in the house ... and you know ... usually it was at the door ...... I think religion ... you know ...
..: Right.
..: ... in her ........ would be ... and a lot ... nowadays ....... I'm not saying ... but a lot of them Catholics ... being Catholic ... and so ... now they're ... you know they're ... at first there's no ...... Catholic ... but I think that was a ... that is now .........
Cindi: Well ... and even this morning I go into a meeting ....... had a group that was ........ Baptist ... that the Baptist said the same thing ... it was church that was a community-binding agent ... so again ... we got the same message ... church ... a church in that sense ... bound. So .....
Romo: ....... (Spanish) ......
(mixed conversation and laughter)
Cindi: With that ... we were considering doing an interior Community Mtg - Lubbock - St. Joseph's Church
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of a home that was one of the things that was listed on your sheet? ...
..: Yes.
Cindi: ... and we used the word contemporary just for the lack of a better ... there's no typical home that we could ... but would you feel it appropriate that if we had ........ or that ..........
..: Virgen de Guadalupe or something.
..: Exactly ... I mean ....
Cindi: Or an ............
..: ........... every home ... every ... nearly ... I'm going to say every ... Hispanic home has a cross .........
..: And JFK.
..: And JFK. (laughter)
..: ......... it's true ... and for some reason it's also the Democratic Party that binds Hispanics. And I'm not saying ... again ... that everybody is Democrat ...
..: Right.
..: ... but that is a binding ...
..: Characteristic.
..: ... thing and it's ... you ... either you have the Virgen and ...
..: JFK. (laughter)
..: ... and Jesus on the Cross.Community Mtg - Lubbock - St. Joseph's Church
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..: Well ...
Romo: ...... (Spanish) .......
Cindi: ... respect is a good point.
Romo: Yeah .... (Spanish) ......
..: They never do.
Romo: .... (Spanish) .......
..: ............
Cindi: I think in the big cities this is an area that we see there's a great lack of ... is the respect ......... ... whether it's .........
..: ..........
Cindi: ... religion ... the family ... but we see a great deal of a breakdown in that respect. I'm sure a lot of ......... A binding trait or characteristic? ....... different from that what you ladies have brought up or ....? I mean they are certainly not the only ones but ....
..: .......... dancing .......
Cindi: And you know we had a mayor in San Antonio that blew his own foot off one day when he said ... they ... the ubiquitous they ... referring to Mexican-Americans ... like siestas and bright colors ... and dear Mr. Mayor McAllister did not get re-elected.
..: (laughter)
..: Oh my God ......Community Mtg - Lubbock - St. Joseph's Church
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Cindi: San Antonio Savings went out the window ....
(mixed conversation and laughter)
Okay ... now you're bring up another aspect of that ... and that is rituals or celebrations that bind. Again many of them have a religious background too ...... They are also political ... Diez y Seis ... Cinco de Mayo ...
..: .....
Cindi: ... we have a whole section that we're doing on that.
..: Baptism.
Cindi: Now that one we were debating. How important do you think that is say compared to the first birthday? Baptism .......
(mixed conversation)
Cindi: Okay ... okay ... this is the feeling that we're getting ... that we had some feed-back that ... well, you can't forget that first birthday.
..: First Holy Communion for Catholic.
..; Oh ... First Communion.
..: Uh-huh ... First Holy Communion ... I mean you dress up the little girl and the little boy ... in something like a little quinceanera deal ...
Romo: ...... (Spanish) ........
..: Yeah ... and if you're going to show anything like that it would be a baptism. And it would also be ... like she said Community Mtg - Lubbock - St. Joseph's Church
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... your First Communion ... your quinceanera ...
Cindi: Yes ... well all three of those are very strong runners at this point. And we're thinking of doing ... getting a video format where we have been invited to homes who are having this activity and we've gotten 2 or 3 recorded ... ..... we just did a 15 birthday celebration ... but so that again you the public can select rituals or celebrations that bind and we'll say the baptism appeals to you then you punch that video up and it's actual footage of several within the state where a family has invited us to come and allowed us to tape footage of that celebration. Where it again will also bring many of the sub-themes in ... obviously the music ... or food ... because those would be elements that would contribute to that whole celebration. But we're looking at doing that in a Little Theater setting that let's you, the public, you know ... again dictate what you want to look at. But we didn't want to miss ... we went over everything but we don't want to miss ... if like 90% feel that this is important then we need to listen to that 90% who say ... yes, baptism ... not first birthday.
..: You need to take a vote. (laughter)
Cindi: Okay.
..: .... information is like baptism ...
Cindi: Uh-huh.
..: ... because first you're a baby ...Community Mtg - Lubbock - St. Joseph's Church
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Cindi: Right.
..: ... but then when you reach 15 ... that's where you are ... you know ... deciding ...
Cindi: Right. ........
..: ... .......... deciding for you.
Cindi: ... which would give us an avenue to tie other cultures in around the floor ... we have their rituals and passage for ......... ... whether it's Jewish or Bar Mitzvah ... or Anglo .......... ... or whatever are your other areas that again we could cross-reference and that's ... as we do toward ...... public ... that's one of the things that we try to point out ... is that ... yes, we're talking about content right now in the Mexican area ... but when we get over to the German ...... believe it or not ..... ... or the Chinese area ... there's a celebration very much like .............. that celebrates the ancestors ......... So we can again remind the public that there is much ... you know ... you bleed red blood ... you get hungry ... you need shelter ... so do I ... my language is a little different because by default I was born in a slightly different environment ... but the things that draw us together as human family are the same across the board. But then we want to celebrate not only the differences but the commanalities too. And we're striving to encourage tolerance to ... to ... well to try to get past the ........ ... we're just going to Community Mtg - Lubbock - St. Joseph's Church
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think about ........
..: ...........
(mixed conversation and laughter)
..: One of the things that we have is the language and the Tex-Mex that exists ... you know ... West Texas ... that's a good trait.
Cindi: Well, and we're finding differences ... for example ... that was ... I was quite taken aback ... I think it was in El Paso ... actually I could be wrong ... but someone in conversation used the word mantilla ... and they were referring to a diaper ... it was apparently ......
..: .........
Cindi: ... vernacular ... acceptable ... okay ... and I still think of a head-covering for church ... out of lace ... but again ... you know ... this is an interesting point ... is that ... for example when we were playing Dios de los Muertos ... it's in the sketch ... he goes back and forth ... because that's .......... ... .......... on the radio and it's ........... argue that we're doing a disservice because because we have a generation who can't speak either ... you know ... properly ... I mean ... or .......... But it's reality ...
..: And that's the bad part.
Cindi: ... that's ...............
..: ............ English and we're not fluent in Spanish ... Community Mtg - Lubbock - St. Joseph's Church
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..... generations .......
Cindi: But the language ... you know ... it's ... we need to honor that ... .........
..: Oh, yeah.
..: ..........
Cindi: Well ... I mean ... again what format do we use to get that message across? You know ... not every station can be touchy ... pokey ... feely ... some things will have to be read. But language to me needs to be current. So that format ............
..: See ... there's different ways ... I mean there's different Spanish ...
..: Sure.
..: El Paso Spanish is different from Lubbock Spanish and I ............ I came across that ...... coming to Lubbock ... I had never heard of la harmonica ... what is a harmonic here? And I mean that's how I started ... you know ... ....... ... over there it's a ............. (mixed conversation) .... and a harmonica to me is like Jamaica ... they're having a Jamaica ... (mixed conversation and laughter) ... that was a major ... just coming from El Paso to Lubbock.
(mixed conversation)
Cindi: Right ... but again that just pointed out that within one language ... not even dialectically ... but just one language Community Mtg - Lubbock - St. Joseph's Church
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can have branches ...
..: ........
Cindi: ... the vernacular ... the common of the people ....... Do any of the rituals then that you feel strongly about? I mean we've hit the bit ones obviously.
..: Weddings. A wedding ......
(mixed conversation)
Cindi: I mean we're talking like ................ (mixed conversation) .......
..: Actually and a funeral too is different because just over there my ....... Anglo funeral and they buried him before they gave the services and I thought ... well, that was different. You know ... usually they have the body ... you know ... here in the church and then they give the mass and then everybody goes and buries the person.
..: ..........
..: ...... and this was ... well, Bud Addington was the City Councilman here ... they buried him and then they had the services ... .............. exactly.
Cindi: ........ burial ... I don't we've really considered that one ...
..: Yeah.
Cindi: ... perhaps we were thinking that we would not see that much difference. One of the things we were looking at Community Mtg - Lubbock - St. Joseph's Church
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is ... what is unique within the Mexican culture.
..: ..........
Cindi: We don't necessarily see in other cultures ...
..: The singing in the funeral ... at least in my Mom's furneral ... a lot of singing ... and the song De Colores is a good song but at the same time it's very very tearful ... I mean ... if .......
..: ........
..: ... uh-huh ... it brings ... you know it's supposed to be a happy song ... but if you had somebody who'd died and they played that song ... it's a very sorrowful song ... yeah.
Romo: ...... (Spanish) .......
(mixed conversation Spanish and English)
..: ... you know the rosary that you go and ..... at the funeral home ....... there ... you know ... I mean ... that's different from ... ....... I would say it's a wake. ........ Anglo and then ... but in a ........ I mean ......... you go to the rosary.
..: Right.
Romo: ...... (Spanish) .........
..: No ... and then even after ... after the burial there's the novenas that are held for that person for nine days. I mean ... you know ... to me that's different.
Cindi: Okay.
..: You don't just bury them and say ...Community Mtg - Lubbock - St. Joseph's Church
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(mixed conversation)
..: Exactly. You pray for their soul in purgatory.
Romo: Yes. .... (Spanish) ......
..: .... (Spanish) ...
..: .... (Spanish) ......
..: ... for the peace of mind of the family ... the novena.
(mixed conversation)
..: ... I'd always heard that it was to make sure that the person wasn't for the 9 days hanging in there between purgatory and hell ... I mean ... they just go ... they either go to hell or they go to heaven.
..: That's how I was told you know.
..: That's how we pray for that person's soul. .....
..: And a lot of this is just really tradition.
Cindi: Yes.
..: That they're traditions.
Cindi: Yes.
..: And that they follow through generations.
Cindi: Right.
..: That's not ........ I don't know if you call it ........
..: The meaning .......
Cindi: Well ... what ... we're tossing words around in which ritual ... celebrations ... tradition ... all can be Community Mtg - Lubbock - St. Joseph's Church
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interchanged and perhaps it's just targeting the right word when we actually get this display together ... that we make sure that ...
Let's move on to one in terms of ... the question quite simply says ... What do you want most people to know ... no ... excuse me ... what do you most want people to know about Tejano history and culture? Your being women I hear similar things coming from all of you. You know ... what else could you share? Now the question I just posed was ... What most do you want people to know about Tejano and Mexican-American history and culture? We really have to ... we talked some about rituals ... traditions ... we hit food a little bit ... the church was obviously in there ... language ... are these the things that are the most important?
..: What are we now talking about ..... ?
..: Family.
Cindi: Okay. So family. And this is important.
..: ...........
Romo: ..... (Spanish) ...........
Cindi: Two thoughts come into mind ... with the family as important as it is ... in contemporary setting ... do we or should we address issues like the rise of the gang situation ... which in part is perhaps because of the breakdown in some family units and that lack of closeness ... and that lack of Community Mtg - Lubbock - St. Joseph's Church
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respect ... of being taught. You know gangs are not unique to Mexican-Americans by any means ... but is that something that we should find space somewhere? ........
..: These kids have not been raised to have fear to God. They've been raised by themselves and the moms and dads are ...... somewhere else ... there's nobody there to hear them ... or put fear in them that there's somebody up there watching.
..: ..........
(mixed conversation)
Cindi: Do you feel okay to walk by yourself? or would you like for someone to be with you?
..: ..........
Cindi: One of the ......
..: I wouldn't ... I might would address it ... but I wouldn't address it in a negative way. Yeah ... there are negative parts to it ... just like there are ... is in Afro-American you know ... they have their drug dealers and their gangs and their ... you know ... crack-houses and all that stuff ... and just like the Anglo-American has the kids go out on party and they're shooting up ... you know ... in the clubs and stuff like this ... so everything ... all those kind of groups have their negativeness. And ... but as far as gangs ... to me ... ever since ... I've known ... there has always been gangs ... Hispanic gangs ...Community Mtg - Lubbock - St. Joseph's Church
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..: Yes.
..: ... always.
Cindi: That's what my husband says for San Antonio's problems now ... is that as he grew up there was still always ... but they were more like turf-type of situations ...
..: Yeah ... yeah.
Cindi: ... as opposed to the way they tend to have expanded now.
..: Uh-huh.
Cindi: So again ... you know ... it would be a very sensitive issue.
..: ..........
Cindi: We could not ... you know ... make it sound as if only Hispanics have gangs.
..: Right.
Cindi: So we wouldn't want to come across like that. But as part of contemporary society as we deal with it ....
..: Well ... I think it's one of the ills of society ... but then to me it sort of comes back to ... well ... it's because of ... the woman never at home to take care of the child ... I mean to me it ... when you bring it up that way I feel like you're blaming women ... you know ... when in reality ... now it takes 2 ... it takes 2 to go out there and work ... and as women we have to go out there and work. And in addition hold Community Mtg - Lubbock - St. Joseph's Church
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that family together. And I think that's unfair ... because to me it like ... you know ... I feel like you're blaming me. I really do ... you know ... and it's not ... but it's okay for the man to go out and work and come and see the kid only ... you know ... from 5 to 8 ... if they go to bed at 8 ... or whatever ... but it's not okay for me to do it.
..: ..........
(mixed conversation)
..: It gets sexist.
Cindi: Yes. Okay.
..: It gets ... you know when you start ... well ... it's because of the breakup of the home ... you never stay home ... you know ... but by the same token I can understand.
..: Yes. And by that same token it applies to Afro-Americans ...
..: Anybody.
..: ... Anglo-Americans ....
Cindi: Yes.
..: All ......
Cindi: Well I have a feeling that that one is .......... ...
..: .........
Cindi: ... Yes. Well I mean there's ...... sensitivity in all ... well ... all things should be addressed with sensitivity Community Mtg - Lubbock - St. Joseph's Church
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obviously ... but I'm thinking that we're going to probably feel that that ... where there is so much else to address ... that perhaps that is not one to spend a great deal of time and effort on. ...... space .......
..: Well ... I would definitely ... if you're limited on space ... definitely get up on the positiveness of the whole culture.
..: Yes.
Cindi: Okay ... yes. I mean ... do we agree ....
(mixed conversation)
..: ...... positiveness .....
Cindi: Are we pretty much in agreement that we would want whoever was to see this exhibit to walk away with a ... a good feeling?
..: Yeah.
Cindi: Do we ... should we point ... not necessarily addressing the youth ... but is part of what we want to re-enforce to the youth that see this exhibit that it doesn't matter who you are you can make a difference in your life by staying in school or by believing in yourself ... by looking at positive role models ...
..: Exactly.
Cindi: ... of ... here is ........... ... okay ... and look what he did in his life ... all the way through Tech and now up to the Government. Or here is Esther Zepeda from .... ... Community Mtg - Lubbock - St. Joseph's Church
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and here's what she did. You know ... it seems that if we could find real people ... besides ... and I'm not ... you know this is not to make light of the situation ... but you know ... besides the Henry Cisneros' and some of the other names that we just know that roll off our tongues now ... we should look to find some of the unsung heroes in the communities that aren't that ........
..: It ... you know what I mainly look at when I go to museums or to study someone else's culture? Is I want an understanding of what they're about. You know ... because I automatically respect people for just being a person you know ... you've got my respect just as a human being ... and I want to respect your culture just like I want you to respect my culture ... you know. In the United States ... you know ... we are made up of so many different cultures that whether we want to or not we have to ... you know ... you see a person and you have to ... you have to respect them for who they are ... because they are different from you ... you know ... if we could all be Anglos I'm sure ... you know ... great ... great ...
..: ......
..: ... we'd all be driving convertibles ... you know ... blond hair ... you know ... whatever ... but you know ... seeing as how it's not that way ...
Cindi: Right.Community Mtg - Lubbock - St. Joseph's Church
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..: ... we have to learn to respect each other's culture.
..: I always .............
..: That's what makes it fun though.
..: ............. respect the holiday.
..: And then you might not even like it ...
Cindi: Yes. Well ... you know we've looked at that from the standpoint of things like posadas ...
..: Yeah.
Cindi: ... the pastoreles ... okay ... but again ... we don't want to overdo what's been done ... but we don't want to ignore what you the community feels is representative ... so that it has to be balance in there.
In terms of bilingualism ... we sort of touched on this in a number of ways. How do you feel? Should the whole exhibit be in English and in Spanish? Parts of it? Only the audio parts? You know we were just discussing that many of us are not fluent ... we speak litle bits of different languages ... not necessarily real good in any of them. So what is your feeling there?
..: I think it should be all bilingual.
..: I think it should be all bilingual.
..: I really do ... all bilingual. Because if you start taking out some stuff then you're going to miss out.
Cindi: And by default because we're looking at the Community Mtg - Lubbock - St. Joseph's Church
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Mexican-American culture at this point ... the languages should be Spanish and English?
..: I think so.
..: Yes, I think so.
..: But I never .... and I really do because that's what ... and it ... I don't know ... .........
..: And you know what? That would just show respect for that culture. Because they are Spanish-speaking people ... they are originally from Spanish and you know ... that's who they are ... that's where they come from.
Cindi: But the reason I'm playing the devil's advocate right now is ... our museum floor currently represents 27 cultures ...
..: Uh-huh.
Cindi: ... If we had less politics ... less egos and more money ... ............. okay? For example ... Odessa is named from Odessa in the Ukraine ... we have nothing to represent the Russian influence ... because for so many years it was politically incorrect to do so. What I'm saying is ... do we now go back and put the German section in German and English? ... do we go to the Czechoslovakian section ... do we put it in Czech and in English? I mean we're looking down the road ...
(mixed conversation)Community Mtg - Lubbock - St. Joseph's Church
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..: I would look at it this way ...
..: ... but the difference here is that it's in Texas and the growing population is Hispanic.
..: Right. And you're talking about Spanish being the second most spoken language in the world. And you know ... so it's not a language to be taken lightly ...
END OF SIDE 2. ABOUT .. MINUTES.