THE INSTI TUTE OF TEXAN CULTURES
Tejano Community Advisory committee Meeting - UT-El Paso
INTERVIEW WITH: Miguel (Mike) Juarez,
DATE:
Jose Cabal lero, Oscar Lozano (Tape 1)
21 May 1994
PLACE: University of Texas at El Paso , Texas
INTERVIEWERS : Bob Fitts, Leslie Burns
... what are the parameters of the ... for the
discussion ... or for the
BF : Well, we've got some general discussion ques tions. But
we'd like to keep this free-form ... if a topic comes up
that you guys have a lot to say about we 're not locked into
any thing.
... ?
BF:
BF:
Okay. Well, could I pass and let someone else go first
Well , we were just going ask you to introduce yourself .
Okay.
And so if you'll just give us your name SO we ' ve got
your name connected with your voice.
MJ: Okay . My name is Miguel (Mike) Juarez, I'm a cur a tor ,
I do documentation, historian , I've been researching the
history of t h e murals in El Paso from the earl y 1900s to the
present time. I've wri tten articles for various
publications, including the local newspapers and also I am a
arts activist in the border region .
He's a l so an author. You forgot to say that.
Tejano Community Advisory Committee Mtg 2
UT-El Paso / Bob Fitts / Leslie Burns (Tape 1)
He's got a book corning up in ... next year?
MJ: Yes, yes, Texas Western Press .
JC: My name is Jose Caballero, I'm a l ibrarian. And some
years back I was also head of spec ial collections so in that
capacity I was an archivist/historian type. I've a lso been
active in the community and so I have a great interest in
the protrayal of the Mexican-American either in p r int or in
image.
OL: I am Oscar Lozano, I teach in the public schools a nd
I guess that des cribes me .
LB : What do you teach?
OL: I teach us history and a course in Chicano history.
LB : What grade level?
OL: This is high school level . . . sophomores ... juniors,
seniors .
LB: ... . .......... ?
OL: .......... just a couple of ....... . .. . .
...... corne into Jake, he may want to mention something
here.
(laughter - mixed conversation)
Your activism.
Your activism in the community.
I don't think that's relevant to this discussion.
Oh , okay, that's fine.
BF : Alright ... well
LB : Shall we test this ..... .
Tejano Community Advisory Committee Mtg 3
UT-El Paso I Bob Fitts I Leslie Burns (Tape 1)
BF: Yes .
BF: give us an extra chance ...
These general discussion questions, i n essense o f
starting right off with the real important ... , what do you
really t hink the t wo or three main points that the exhibit
ought to impress upon the visi tors?
I n my opinion the his t ory ... I think the history of
being a Mexican-American well . .. the h istory of the
people .. . evolving from the Mexican hi story . But also ...
it's difficult because you' re dealing with a l arge group . ..
the Chicanos who r eally .. . it doesn't ... they really carne
to be reflected in the focus of the exhibit . So real l y
don't know how to rea lly answer that question.
LB: I'd like to know why you were ... y ou said the Chicanos
....... art reflected in the focus of the exhibit ...
Describe what the difference in Chicanos and other Mexican-
Ame ricans.
Okay. Because you begin to talk about the Spanish or
the Colonial period. What you refer to the Col onial period
when y ou regards to ... you have an example of the Colonial
Period?
LB : You mean physically?
Yes, yes.
LB : ..... aspect ..... exhibit ....... . ? We have two
dioramas and the subject of those dioramas
BF: Are basically Colonial period . One of the dioramas
Tejano Community Advisory Committee Mtg 4
UT- El Paso / Bob Fitts / Leslie Burns (Tape 1)
shows an inferior family household sett ing of .. . including
the yard and so forth . . . and none of this exists ... well,
the dioramas now exist ... but ... at any rate . . . and the
other one ... you see off to the left the same house and
so forth ... you also see the plaza there in San Antoni o
during the Colonial period ... and you see a wide variety of
people coming together .. . trading so forth . One o f the
things that we're going to be talking about is the mix of
ethnic groups that occurred to make Tejanos or Chicanos
during that time. Because there were the Spanish ... there
were the Indians and there were the Canary Is l anders a nd
there were some Blacks too ... and all those people came
together one way or another and by the time Texas really
started being settled many of the settlers were really not
Spanish they were Mestizo and so we're goi ng to try
to tell how all those things blended and formed what has
become a community
I s there l ike a definite time - frame that we're talking
about? the beginning of that history?
BF: Basically the 18th century.
18th century.
LB: Do you want to continue with that or shall we ... do
you have other points that you want ........ ?
I'd like to . . ..... other people comment because
I'm still a little bi t confused as to ....
Okay ... so the h i story begins in the Colonial period
Tejano Community Advisory Committee Mtg 5
UT- El Paso / Bob Fitts / Les lie Burns (Tape 1)
. .. which is the 18th century ... does it reach back further
into that ... because maybe some of the events .. . Mexico
. .. like the revolution and some of the effects that the
revolution had and bringing people who l ater became the
Chicanos into the history or at what po i nt do you begin?
LB : We're developing t his exhibit so that a ll of these
ideas you can ... if you think that should be in there .. .
please tell us.
Well, I'm trying to somehow get a feeling for what
a l ready exists or are you're saying that it's outdated
and they need some changes?
LB: Yes, absolutely.
BF: This will be a whole new exhibi t when it's finished.
As it exists now there is a Spanish exhibit which is mainly
Colonial period and then there is a Mexican area which
covers basically t he Chicano- Tejano cultural era . And an
awful lot of it is . . . it only covers a time period that i s
not coming even close to coming into the contemporary
period. There's a little bit of stuff ... but most of it is
again ... goes back to 19th century and early 20th would be
t h e latest for most of it.
LB : So . . ... . ... .... We want to know ... we want t o be sure
to cover ... we want to know what the .. .... . . points are
. . ..... ... ......... focus on other things but we don ' t want
to l eave out something major so if you could continue to
share with us what you t hink are the major points .
Tejano Community Advisory Committee Mtg 6
UT-El Paso / Bob Fitts / Leslie Burns (Tape 1)
Can anyone interject? or are we going around the circle
. ?
BF: No .
I was going to say that I don 't think would be right
for you to cut off at 1920s because most of the history of
the people who call themselves Chicanos ... contemporary
Chicano history ... has evolved af t e r that period.
BF: That's what I was saying ... right now the way it is it
cuts off
Oh .
BF: ... and we don't want that ... we're trying to do what
we just said.
Do you have a section that talks about .. . say Spanish
history? Because Spanish history is very integral to the
Spanish conquest and then the conflict between the
indigenous people and the Spanish and then the development
of the people that followed.
BF: I think some of that wil l be introduced ... but it
won't be a major f ocus. That again is open .
This is a little ... l et me interject a little b i t here
I think that one of the important elements in trying to
explain Mexican-American culture ... especially to people
who are not familiar with the culture ... the importance of
the blending of Spanish and indigenous tradi tions and
cultures which is reflected in just about everything
language ... food ... behavior ... even psychology I dare
Tejano Community Advisory Committee Mtg 7
UT-EI Paso / Bob Fitts / Leslie Burns (Tape 1)
say ... and I think that needs to somehow come out in the
exhibit . I know it's a difficult concept to deal with but
the whole concept of .......... which is a strong e l ement in
our cultural ........... I t hink it could be dealt with.
For example . .. in the language something could be said
about the language that is spoken in Texas how it i s a blend
of Spanish with a lot of Indian words ......... . .. words
that were used.
Uh-huh.
Even concepts. (laughter) See we can get traditions
LB: ..... . .. about the l anguage and concepts ...... .
Sure. Well, for exampl e, traditions concepts are
there's the whole concept of "su casa, es mi casa"
that's a very native t hing. Okay? The natives were
. ...... . ... to peoples ........... back through. And that's
continued through t h e years. Ther e's a lot of celebrat ions
that I think the roots are more in the native traditions
than in the Spanish traditions.
LB: What ......... ?
Well, for example ... the whole thing of healing.
Curandero ..... ... that's the native tradition and that
carries from generation to generation. For example ... my
mother still comes to my house ... to my apartment
occasionally and brings a ll the herbs and gives me potions
... try this try that ... and make sure that I'm healthy
Tejano Community Advisory Committee Mtg 8
UT-El Paso / Bob Fitts / Leslie Burns (Tape 1)
i n the native traditions. ( laugh ter) You see? And
that's a hea l ing ritual for me And all of us I think
can share that. I think that needs to come through. A l o t
of fo l ks ... when I tell this to folks in Chicago and New
Yor k they real l y don't ... they have a hard time
conceptualizing how a person in modern-day society can get
into this whol e heal ing thing .. . and I have to explain t he
tradi tion that we come from . . . and how it carries from
generation to generation . (laughter) Even i f .,. okay
t hat ' s one of the concerns that I have '" that we expl a i n
somehow . .. so that people have a general understanding of
why we are t h e way we are. Especially in the area of heal th
f or example . Because there's a concern among the heal th
profess i onals that . .. i t 's hard dealing with a Mexicano
population because sometimes they offer medicine and we're
saying yeah, but I've got this . .. how do we combine the
native tradition with modern medicine? Wel l , ..... . .. help
t o the professionals .. . they're starting to r ealize there
are plenty of ways to deal with it.
LB: We get calls from the Robert B. Green Clinic in San
Antonio ... .. .. educate our staff on the ... and the
physicians . ... about the Mexican .. . .... . .
Uh-huh. Yeah.
LB: They're realizing
BF: Wel l, that's good.
Tejano Community Advisory Committee Mtg 9
UT-El Paso / Bob Fitts / Leslie Burns (Tape 1)
LB: Yeah.
BF: I was going to say that ... it comes under the general
question that you asked in the beginning ... that I think
that the exhibit however it winds up it should be reflect
the fact that the his tory of Chicanos ... Tejanos ... in
relation to the Anglocizing and .......... history of
violence. And it' s been a harsh and sometimes brutal series
of events that usually are not treated adequately in
........ .. textbooks or in historical documents ...
documentaries ... they tend . .. his t orians in the past
and they still do ... tend to gloss over this history of
And I t hink that this exhibi t should not gloss
over that Trying to project that traditions
have always been amicable ... between the two races
the Tejano became to be ... become American
citizens through acts of viol ence and many of the relations
began ... especially in the areas like the lower Valley
from San Antonio on down ... and here in El Paso
relations between the two peoples has been '" or had been
. .. has been a period of intense conflict and struggle for
political domination ... economic domination ... and to see
which society was going to be dominant in those areas. And
some of the things that we see in tradi tional histories of
Texas '" like the struggle fo r Texas independance from
Mexico ... the mythical role of Texas Rangers in terms of
pacifying the lawl ess in t he Texas area ... and ... those
Tejano Community Advisory Commi ttee Mtg 10
UT-El Paso / Bob Fitts / Leslie Burns (Tape 1)
things ... those events point to examples of conflict
between t h e two peoples . But what we see in the traditional
historica l sense is that the . . . t hey gloss over the fact
that it was an obvious and deliberate a ttempt by one people
to over-come another peopl e . And I think that it shouldn 't
b e glossed over like that .
LB: Do you have any ideas about how to do that in the
exhibit? in the exhibit Lik e an a rtifact
some of that would maybe come off ... .. .
Okay. I understand tha t the intent of the exhibit
would be to show that differen t peoples in Texas have been
able to live together in harmony ...
LB: Not necessarily.
and maybe in your e xhibi t s you could include
subjects or areas that have been conflictive and present the
side of the Mexicano-Tejano. Like for instance in the
... here in EI Paso . ...... .... we have t he event cal l ed t he
Salt War . . . all of the works that have been written about
that event h ave been from the perspective of the Anglo. I
don't think .. . to my knowledge t hat there is a Mexicano
a Chicano perspective of that event.
Not yet.
And maybe you can include .............. episode s such
as the Sa l t War . .. inlcude some of those people that were
involved .. . some of t he Mexicanos . .. Tejanos
.. . .... ...... that wer e involved as l eaders of the Mexicano
Tej ano c ommunity Advi sor y Committee Mtg 11
UT- El Paso / Bob Fitts / Leslie Burns (Tape 1)
side.
LB:
BF: How's that?
LB : I'm trying to what we want to
avoid is I'm thinking in
t erms of artifacts ... is there an artifact that would go
a l ong with the ... .. . ... . .
BF: So .. . .... .
LB: That would illustrate conflict with . ... . . . .. i t's a
difficult concept to illustrate.
It is . See ... the whole thing on that event boils
down to a concept of ownership of resources .. . Mexicano
Tejano . . . from an indigenous background ... a
c ommunal sense of ownership in terms of natural resources.
Are you fami liar with the event itself?
LB: Yes.
... and why people fought over it? You have this
gent l eman coming over and saying .......... .. property
i s the l aw of this land ... that's conflict '" cultural
confli ct. As a consequence of that you have a ll
. .... . and events that erupt in viol ence.
Which ... excuse me, if I may interject here . . . which
gets back to some of the basic cultural values because up to
that t i me the native tradition of communal ownership of the
l and was still ... and to a large extent still exis t s
. ..... . excuse me for interrupting .
Tejano Community Advisory Committee Mtg 12
UT- El Paso / Bob Fitts / Leslie Burns (Tape 1)
That's true .. ...... that's the whol e point.
That's the whole point.
I s that going to be reflected in t he exhi bit? I know
i t 's hard to try and project ...
LB: No, I want to ...... ... . .. .
this difference of perspectives and how they
evolved into concepts.
LB:
That ' s true ... if I may cont inue with that concept ...
a lot of the conflict has resul ted ...
... t he differences in cultural unders tanding and
perception of the world . In t he communal setting of a
Mexicano versus .... . . ... cultural setting of an incoming
Anglo ... the immigrants of that time ... obviously there
were differences in the way tha t pasture- l ands were
perceived ... where fences were started to be erected and
the Mexicano
Well, I think that's a good point. There needs to be
an explanation of how some of these conflicts have evol ved
and how some o f the even last to today. I think that would
l ead to some interesting ... understanding of some of the
current or recent ... most recent conflicts ... t h a t we have
seen during the . . . even the hey-day of the . ...... .. in the
' 60s and '70s ... t hat may even be in existence t i l t oday .
Not to ........ .... the conf lict but to provide people with
Tejano community Advisory Committee Mtg 13
UT- El Paso / Bob Fit t s / Leslie Burns (Tape 1)
a general l evel of understa nding of why we are ... who we
are in curr ent society.
Another example of how we need to . .. I think that it
woul d be a good idea to tell the truth
woul d be how . .... ... . . .. .. the fight for Texas independence
is portrayed as something noble ... something that freedom-loving
people wanted to undertake ... to free themselves
from dictatorial chains from Mexico . . . that 's a perspective
of historians that want to gloss over the fact t hat the
Tejanos . . . the Texans the Texans that wanted to free
themselves from Mexico were doing it for ulterior motives
besides freedom-lovi ng concepts . They did not want to obey
Mexican law ... they refused to abide by the agreements
under which they were allowed into t he country and since
they were illegal aliens many of them ... they had come
without permission ... and we see in the textbooks that
none of that . . . none of that information is taught to
people or brought out ... and we see these images .. . these
myths of the Alamo and great sacrifices by early Texas
settlers overcoming grea t odds to acquire their freedom
but the perspective from the Mexicano is not presented
correctly . .. nothing that the exhibit ........ . ....... . . .
LB: Do you
In the case of this part of Texas .. . El Paso ...
Southwest . .. I think the event of the Mexican Revolution
was an important event to the history which brought many
Tejano Community Advisory Committee Mtg 14
UT-El Paso / Bob Fitts / Leslie Burns (Tape 1)
people to the United States and also many .......... and so
forth to El Paso and Texas. And that I think should be a
topic that needs to be within this history.
the history of EI Paso for instance ... many artists and
writers and so forth ... were involved in the politics of
In
the Revolution and also it caused many families to move here
to start new lives and so forth ... and contri bute to
the overall fabric of what has become EI Paso and the
Southwest.
That reminds me of the fact that there has been a
series of very important contributions by Mexicanos
throughout the history of the state. And I think that one
of the things that probably could be improved in the future
is that pointing to a lot of those achievements ... for
example literary ... musical ... and so forth . . . one
well-known fact is that some of the earlier ... if not the
first newspapers that was published in this territory
were in Spanish. Very few people know that. I think that
needs to be told. Some of our earlier printing presses came
in through Coahuila ... not through the other way . . . I
guess you didn't know tha t. The printing knowledge came to
the States through Coahuila and that part of the world.
And also the first play in the North American continent
First play .. .. ...... .
Tejano Community Advisory Committee Mtg 15
UT- El Paso / Bob Fitts / Leslie Burns (Tape 1)
A l ot of the earlier literary productions are as a
result of Mexicano presses and . . ........... That's not
told . .. to my knowledge ... and I think that has important
bearing on the way the Mexicanos themselves ... see
t hemselves today . . . because often-times we're tol d that we
have an oral tradition . ..
That we ' re immigrants .
That we're immigrants ... well ... we've had a presence
here from a long time ago ... as natives and as set tlers and
then also some immigration .. . but the presence has been
h ere for a long time and so that's hard to be told.
Through music a lot of this story can be told. The
music that was already here in the earlier years and
.. .... .. . .. .. . .. how the music has been influenced by
other traditions ... and how it's developed through the
years. I t's a wonderful tradition. Perhaps some of the
earlier novels could be researched? Some of the earlier
literary works any number of t h ings
... art . . . what was the earliest forms of art in Texas?
be f ore I'm sure we could go on and on.
LB: I have a question how do you see us bringing the
exh ibit up-to- date? what do you see as the ro l e of
c ontemporary Mexican - Americans in this exhibit? how much
emphasis should be placed on contemporary life?
Tej a no community Advisory Committee Mtg 16
UT-El Paso / Bob Fitts / Leslie Burns (Tape 1 )
I think that you should concentrate some kind of
at t ention to contemporary life . . . especially in the last 20
- 25 years ... because it's been ... has been a period of
r e-affirmation of Tejano-Chicano culture and its history.
Wh ereas before as you were showing us inside the v i deo
clip earlier ... the older generation of Mexicano ... not
a ll of them ... but some of them .. . try and negate thei r
ancestry or they try to project a sense of assimilat ion and
wi t hin the last 25 years or so Chicanos have re- affirmed
t heir cultural and historical h e ritage and they're more
p roud of it and they're going to be teaching it to their
children and so it ' s like a re-invigoration of historical
and cult ural pride. In terms of the exhibit including some
a spects of . . . let ' s say . .. Chicano history or Mexi cano
infl uence in Tejas .. . I'm sure that you ' re t h inking o f
incl uding the role El Paso played in the spread of
. .... ... . . . to other parts of the Southwest. And together
with that the ... . .. ...... . .. right? have you cons i dered
t hat?
Yes , in the ... I guess in the ... would say the '40s
the ' 30s and '40s . . . the notion of ... .. ........ . wh ich
became popular in the larger cities ... Los Angeles which
was a conflict which came about with the zoot-suit riots and
a ll these events . . . and I think there's always been a t ie
i n El Paso with the rest of the major Latino centers
with emphasis . .. with cities like Los Angeles and San
Tejano Community Advisory Committee Mtg 17
UT-El Paso / Bob Fitts / Leslie Burns (Tape 1)
Francisco and so forth ... I think people in El Paso ...
their history have been closer to Los Angeles than to San
Antonio or Austin . Also the ... I think ... political
activism beginning with the Chicano ... well, the political
activism has always been there but in El Paso there few
opportunities existed in '40s and '50s .. . and then with the
arrival of Chicano ......... '60s ... and we're looking at a
movement which is still in its developmental stages and it's
more or less at its infancy. And I think what we're going
to see in the '90s is ... and what we're seeing now is
we're seeing the resurgent of people wanting to get back to
those roots ... or wanting to research that history. And
it's just going to keep on growing ... I think ... on into
the next century. And also like Oscar mentioned ... El Paso
has played a pivotal role in that history ........ to
include this is the place where individuals like Rueben
Salazar came from ... who was considered ... I guess ... the
martyr of the movement ... who was assassinated in 197 ..
during the Chicano moratorium of the Vietnam War . .. I don't
know if you know anything about
END OF TAPE 1, SIDE 1, ABOUT .. MINUTES.
SIDE 2.
need to be proud of that or need to know what role
that El Paso has played that ... at one point in time El
Paso was the largest metropolitan city i n the ... I think
... the United States and it's always been the crossroads
Tejano Community Advisory Committee Mtg 18
UT-El Paso / Bob Fitts / Leslie Burns (Tape 1)
has been a crossroads for culture . .. for commerce
for so many things ... but it's been down-played by ... I
guess ... historians and researchers. Because it's remote
... it's remote and you have to spend some time here to be
able to understand t he processes and so forth . Also I think
of the recommendations to ... maybe within the exhibit to
have a list of maybe books where people can do their own
research or can .. . like ... a few books or whatever .
LB: Absolutely.
BF:
LB: Yes .... .. .
If I may add to t his ... kind of a hot-line that we
could also .......... you know the blacks in Texas ..... .
. .... .... other parts of the country ... fo r some reasons
other nations are quick to point out to the fact that they
have made great strides in civil rights but for some
reason we don't talk about t hat for the Mexican-Americans
... or the Mexican population ... in Texas for example. And
I think that it would be good to start pointing out to some
of those efforts at least ... and perhaps some gains that
have been made in Texas ... or at least the major efforts
. .. for example the advent of the La Raza unida Party ... in
recent years. And some of the things that have been done as
far as organizational movements .. . like LULAC ... other
movements ... . .. I don't know .. . maybe by
showing some of the leaflets ... 'cause I know that one o f
Tejano Community Advisory Committee Mtg 19
UT-El Paso / Bob Fitts / Leslie Burns (Tape 1)
your big questions is ... What do you do to show that in a
display? ... well, show some of the organizational leaflets
or ask the organizations to corne out with some things they
might want to ...... ... or exhibit . . .
LB: archival . ............. ?
Oh yeah, oh yeah ... we have some and the UT-Austin at
the Benson .......... Collection .. .
they have the LULAC .......... has for the State of Texas
... and then ... within some universities they've begun
a project called .. . they even have a few books out ...
what's that project down in San Antonio ...... ? And that
is researching earl y Mexican-Amer i can and Chicano history?
It's called ... I'm not too sure
I don't remember that one .
... they have a newsletter ... they have a newsletter
out.
Oh, yeah ... yeah.
It' s researching the
...... the Guadalupe Center or ..... ?
No, no, it's out of ... I think ... one of t he ... I'm
not too sure .
Okay.
But .......... .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. for example ...
teaches at the University of Utah . . . but he wrote a
Tejano Community Advisory Committee Mt g 20
UT-El Paso / Bob Fitts / Le slie Burns (Tape 1)
d i ssertation and has done a lot of research on
o r ganizat i onal work . .. by different organizations ... like
LULAC and so forth.
LB : But what about footage? Like video footage or film
footage? Do you think . . . . . . .... .
Oh, the organizations could provide that.
LB: Do you think ... .. . . .
By the LULAC ... the state LULAC could
provide you with that ... or any kind of artifacts you
wanted on that.
LB : That could make it come alive ... . . .
Sure ... come alive definitely.
The Junior Forum is still functional?
Uh . . . the maybe even some of the
leadership in the La Raza Unida Party . . . they're still
around . .. they could provide you with the artifacts .
.. ..... footage and you make an illusion ... uh? I
know
It ' s no illusion .. . there's footage ... on t he Mexican
there's footage on just about all of these things we ' ve
been tal k i ng about. Uh-huh.
In terms of making the exhibit come alive .. . one of
the things t hat the Chicano movement used very effectively
in its and still using it today because we have limited
access to the media . .. and we have limited access to
resources the . . . ....... movement relies a lot of ... on
Tejano Community Advisory Committee Mtg 21
UT-El Paso / Bob Fitts / Leslie Burns (Tape 1)
street theater .. . skits ...
Oh, yeah.
and maybe your exhibit ... dioramas ... would
include ... you know ... periodic skits by live actors
depicting some of these incidents in historical terms that
are difficult to obtain artifacts
LB: We're doing that.
BF: We're doint that.
LB: Yeah. Someone's working on ....
BF: On Emma T .......... .
LB: Yeah, Emma T .......... .
Emma T ................. in the '30s.
LB: Uh-huh.
Uh-huh.
LB:
...... collected oral history from Emma In
LB:
Yeah. She's in bad shape now.
She's still alive?
Yes.
She must be in her ... 80s?
LB: 70s.
70s.
Yeah.
til she retired .
LB:
Tejano Community Advisory Commi ttee Mtg 22
UT-El Paso / Bob Fitts / Leslie Burns (Tape 1)
But you know . . . that's contemporary almost
where you don't have any documenta t ion or even any artifacts
... maybe ... you know ... I went down to St. Louis and they
have an exhibit . . . a diorama ... an exhibit of how
historians think that the origina l inhabitants lived in that
area . . . the Mississippi Valley people ... and if they can
do that in Missouri ... you know ... we can do it better
here in Texas . . .
LB: I think . . . I would like to interview maybe peopl e who
participated in the Salt Wars or something like
that?
There are . .. there are.
There's still some lef t .
people in their ... probably l ate 80s
and probably 90s ...
LB: Maybe they have photos in t h eir families?
I don't think ... I don't t hink if you have people that
will part icipate
Oh, no, n o , no. Relatives
You h ave t he relatives .
LB: historic the only thing we've f ound . ... . . .
There 's a puzzle I'm ........ I think should be
addressed in the exhibit somehow . . . is i mmigration ... what
role immigr ation has played and continues to play and will
continue to play for future generations ... i t's not
something that will be s t opped with any kind of INS
Tejano Community Advisory Committee Mtg 23
UT-El Paso / Bob Fitts / Leslie Burns (Tape 1)
blockade . Also the Chamizal Treaty ... which is very
important in the relations ... the relationship of both
countries ... I think that's very important . At the present
time the Chamizals are collecting oral histories of some of
the individuals who lived in the Chamizal.
LB: Uh-huh.
Yeah ... l et me say something about immigration ...
immigration ... I think .. . as far as the Mexican-American
has been portrayed in a very negative way. In some respects
I don't mean by your Institute by the media and
history . .. and . . ... compare with the way immigration is
portrayed . .. l et's say for the north part of the country
... there's even monuments to immigrants coming in from
Europe from the east . .. the Statue of Liberty and so
forth ... and here in this part of our country we don't
I don't see museums set up or monuments set up for the
immigrants coming in from the south who have contributed
greatly to this country t hrough the years . .. through the
decades.
LB: That's
I would hope so . . . yeah .. . I would hope that t he
immigration issue is portrayed well in your new exhibit and
that
LB: continue ......... .
Yes, yes, the continuing immigration and the
contributions that immigrants have made to this country .
Tejano Community Advisory Committee Mtg 24
UT-El Paso / Bob Fitts / Leslie Burns (Tape 1)
Because I'm afraid that a lot of the immigration issue or
topic is dealt with f r om a negative standpoint . . . for
example border patrol ... t ha t kind of t h ing. I don't
... I'm not saying with t he Institute ... from other points
of view. So that ' s one area that coul d be dealt with very
positively.
LB: And not draw so much of a conflict as ... . ....... . .
Oh, you could but not make that ... yeah .. . I'm
not opposed to dealing wi th it as far as some o ther
conflicts ... but not make tha t the major focus ... tha t's
what I'm saying.
A good choice fo r some of the topics which you have
I guess ............ really know about for this exhibit
for this portion of ......... . . is the C ... Catal og ...
the Chicano Artist ..... .... .. . they ' ve a l ready done the
work ... pretty much and
BF: The what catal og?
The C . . . . . . . . . . .. ... Chicano ...... .. .
BF: Oh, yeah.
I was on t he advisory committee for that exhibit .. . so
a l ot of what we 're talking about has already been done in
this cat a l og and the dif ferent images and so forth are
already there. A l ot of work has already been done ...
pretty much ... is the Institute ... has the I nsti t ute
worked with any other agencies? or any other groups or
Tejano Community Advisory committee Mtg 25
UT-El Paso / Bob Fitts / Leslie Burns (Tape 1)
organizations? in a ... will you have any ... say community
people that will be invited to maybe participate in the
creation of this exhibit?
LB: Yes . We will. Yeah .......... consultants because our
staff is so thin right now and if you have recomendations
for consultants . . ....... research certain portions of the
exhibit .,. that would be . .. I'd appreciate that
names ... addresses ............... that sort of thing.
How involved is the community with the ...... Chicano
community?
LB: With the Institute?
Yes.
LB: We have a various symposia throughout the year
every other year . .. that draws quite a big crowd. As far
as publ ic programming .... uh ...
BF: There's a lot of p a rticipa tion in the Folklife Festival
from the community ... not just San Antonio necessarily ...
LB: From ...... .
BF: And virtually every schoolchild in San Antonio visits
the Institute
How many times?
BF: '" more than once normally . And there ... there're a
number of ties. We've done some work with the ... in
conjunction with the Guadalupe Cultural Center so there
are a lot of ties.
Tejano Community Advisory Committee Mtg 26
UT-El Paso / Bob Fitts / Leslie Burns (Tape 1)
How long will the exhibit be in place? 'Cause I'm
thinking . .. how long .. . well, how long will the exhibit be
in place? Because I think another option . .. if it could be
an option .. . if funds could be obtained for this . .. is
maybe to have a changing exhibit ... because there ' s just so
much in this section that it's just . . . the regions are very
distinct .. . the regions are very distinct. You . .. there
was a question as to how you compare El Paso with Houston
and so forth .,. well, there are some comparisons but .. .
Houston is not close to Mexico ... you know. It's very
d i fferent. Could there be . . . possibly ... changing
exhibits or maybe a certain portion of the exhibit that
would change and maybe show some of the regional aspects
that are not of .......... other parts of Texas . . . ?
BF : Or that could be done with media too?
LB : Uh-huh. Touch screen ... interactive .. . it could
really .... . ...... a lot of information
Yeah, that's a good idea. Because for example . . . and
a good example is music ... the musical traditions tend to
vary from region to region .. . both historically and
currently. Whereas down on the lower part of Texas you may
have a stronger norteno ... como ............ ?
Tejano .. . the German type polka for instance .. .
LB: Conjunto?
Yes, conjunto type and then further up .. . like El Paso
•
Tejano Community Advisory Committee Mtg 27
UT-El Paso / Bob Fitts / Leslie Burns (Tape 1)
you may see more of the other . .. other influences.
LB: Which .. . ..... quickly ... what other influences?
Oh, for example
....... music ... oh, you still see the conjunto bands
but you also hear the other types ... forms of music
for example ... the ... .... .. . ... you know ... with the
salsa ... and the .............. . with a lot of the
mariachi ... which is also very prevalent. But ... and you
also hear mariachi over t here but t he prominence ... you
know ... of the conjunto is ............ .
LB: Okay ......... .
BF: ................ good point.
The fact that Mexicanos ... beginning to classical and
have a classical tradition through the years ...
Yes, there's a whole history of symphonic music and
Chamber and symphonic
in Mexico
Church.
And it's been there for generations
It's almost left out in most of the musical treatments
but anyway ... I'd jus t like throw that one in.
LB: Do you see that represented here in El Paso too?
Well, El Paso for the longest time had the only ....
END OF TAPE 1, SIDE 2, ABOUT .. MINUTES.