SUBJECT:
THE INSTITUTE OF TEXAN CULTURES
Oral History Office
Family life, migrant worker
INTERVIEW WITH: James Theodore Escobedo, Elmendorf, Tx
Sylvia Escobedo (daughter)
DATE: 8 September 1994
PLACE:
INTERVIEWER: Phyllis McKenzie
PM : This is Phyllis McKenz i e of the Institute of Texan
Cultures, today is September 8, 1994 , we're in San Antonio,
Texas, interviewing James Theodore Escobedo, also heard on
this tape may be the voice of his daughter, Syl via Escobedo
Sluder.
Mr . Escobedo has written a 12 page paper describing his
life called "The Migrant." It's full of very vivid det ails
and to start out the interview I'm going to be going through
pages of that and asking questions for more amplification of
some of the events he described.
So to begin, Mr. Escobedo you described your parents
being in Elmendorf when they were asked if they 'd like to
sharecrop the land of the farmer. Would you tell me a bit
about the background of your parents? Where were they born?
How did they come to be in Elmendorf ?
JE: At the camp?
PM: No - where were they born originally? Were they from
Elmendorf? Or had they come there from somewhere else?
J E: What we were doing in Elmendorf?
James Theodore Escobedo
PM: Yeah and how they came to be there .
J E: Sharecropping on a farm . Mr. Warne .
PM : Right. Before they were sharecropping, before that.
SE: Where did - what happened - where did Grandma and
Grandpa come from? How did they end up in Elmendorf?
JE: Oh. They were - Daddy was a cleaning fields - digging
up big trees.
SE: Uh-huh.
JE: And - but that happened i n Elmendorf , you know.
SE: So he - he was born there?
JE : Yeah. He was drinking beer with this German in
Elmendorf .
SE: Uh-huh.
JE: And he asked him, he says, Listen, I need somebody to
help me sharecrop because I've got a thousand eight hundred
acres and it's too much for me. And so he went ahead and
told him - When can I go down there? He says, You can come
down any time. And so the following Monday Daddy loaded up
and took over to - he had a pair of mules hisself, but Mr .
Warne furnished everything so he sold his mules and sold his
wagon and everything. And that's how we started
sharecropping. We never did make any money. We always came
about even. But when there was no rain at all we lost.
(laughter)
SE: Yeah.
James Theodore Escobedo
JE: And that's how come he got scared because we had owed
so much at the store and he says - at that time a $100 was a
lo t of money.
SE: It's still a lot of money. (Laughter)
JE: And he says - Let's do something. So he went to t his
cafe and talked to this man that owned it - he was a friend
of ours and this friend of ours told him - he says, I'm
going to be weigh-master in Portland for a farmer that this
trucker that comes here - maybe he can hire you. He says,
Tell him about it. Well, he done better than that - he went
down to the farmer and talked to Daddy. And from then on we
rode with him for - oh, I guess, about 4 or 5 years.
PM: What year did this begin? {1928 began big drought, no
rain made}
JE: He had a list of names of farmers and he'd contact them
and when they got ready to pick up the crop he'd take the
families over there. And he never did l eave them alone.
About 2 weeks - every time h e 'd come and check on you - how
far you ' re up - but he was always ahead - he had a list of
the ones that - first we started at the Humble Ranch - and
then we went to Portland, {Texas, Paul Whitfield was the
ranch owner, Powel l, brother whose ranch next to Paul's}
SE: Yeah .
JE: Then we went to Portland.
SE: Uh-huh.
James Theodore Escobedo
JE: And then we went to - the reason we went to Humble
Ranch is because that was his brother.
SE: Oh.
JE: I n Port l and.
SE: So he was first on the schedule.
JE: Yeah - same family.
SE: Yeah.
JE: So then we went to Victoria. He took us to Vic toria.
And then the next place was Brady, Texas. And then we went
to San Angelo and Abilene and then from then it was getting
late - around oh, I guess November, then we went to Tahoka.
SE: And that's - ?
JE: Yeah, that's when he pulled bol ls, you know.
SE: Yeah.
JE: And he was coming - so we went to Tahoka and then we ' d
go to Levelland - past Lubbock, And then about the 20th of
every every time it 's getting close to Christmas we 'd come
home, whether we were through or not - we ' d just leave
anyway. (Laughter)
SE: Come back for Christmas.
JE: Yeah. That's the way it was. But I understand that
this guy that was doing the trucking - of course, there was
a lot of them that did that - but this guy - they claimed
that he got $.25 a head of the people that he carried over
there.
James Theodore Escobedo
SE: Recrui ted over t here.
JE: Yeah . He wasn't doing it for nothing.
SE: So he was recruiting you to do this scheduled cropping?
JE: Yeah.
SE: Yeah.
JE: Well, he charged us anyway . He charged us $15.00 . One
way or.
SE: Daddy, where did Grandma and Grandpa - where were they
born? Where were they born? Do you know where Grandma and
Grandpa were born?
J E : Yeah. Grandma was born in Laredo, Texas.
SE: Ah. And she came to Elmendorf when she married
Grandpa?
JE: Yes. You see - she was - her mother died when she was
born.
SE: Oh.
PM: Really?
JE: So.
SE: She died in chi ldbirth .
JE: He daddy - which is my grandpaw - he was a musician .
SE: Uh- huh .
JE: And he'd go nights - you know .
keep her.
SE: Oh.
So he l et the godfat her
JE: It was her uncle - really - that raised them.
James Theodore Escobedo
SE: He was very old .
JE: But they were real old - t hey were real old .
SE: Yeah.
JE: And t hey were also grubbing - you know - taking out
trees and all of that. So they came to Calaveras - working
there . When she was working there she was 15 years old.
Her mother died - the lady.
SE: Uh-huh . The stepmother.
JE : Yeah. And then the old man died about 6 months later.
She was 16.
SE: She was by herself.
JE: And daddy was 17. And he was next door working on the
next farm. And that's when he decided to marry her - they
got married. And they moved to Elmendorf. But the old man
had a wagon - had two teams of mules.
SE: Yeah.
JE: And so they went and sold that - Daddy sold everything
and they bought about 5 acres there in Elmendorf.
SE: Oh. Okay. So that's where the homestead was in
Elmendorf .
JE: Yeah. I think I've taken Jimmy down there where it -
where it is still there.
SE: Yeah.
JE: It belongs to Escobedos - but it's abandoned - somebody
10 years ago built a house there - just came in and bui lt
James Theodore Escobedo
it. But that's how come they started. And of course - he
kept on trying to work here and there and it come a day when
he decided to go to sharecropping with Mr. Warne.
PM: What year did he begin sharecropping?
JE: Oh, what year? 1908.
PM: 1908.
JE: The reason I t ell you this is because Nino was - my
oldest brother was 8 years old and -
SE: That ' s when he was - that was when he was born.
JE: He was born in 1900.
SE: He was born on the sharecropper's farm. Yeah.
JE: Yeah. And he's 7 years older than me.
SE: Yeah.
JE: When we moved out I was 15.
SE: Yeah. When you went to pick cotton you were 15
already.
JE: Yeah , 15, yeah.
PM: And you had 2 younger brothers as well? Is that
correct?
JE: Ma ' am?
PM: You had 2 younger brothers?
JE: Yes, uh-huh.
PM: What years were they born?
JE: My - I had another brother named Cleto, he was born in
- well, he was 3 years younger than me - 1922 I believe it
James Theodore Escobedo
was and -
SE: Or 1919.
JE: Yeah, because him and Momma are the same age. Him and
your Momma.
SE: Oh, y eah . My Mom. Right.
JE: Yes, that's right .
PM : And your mother was born when , Sylvia?
SE : You've got me - I have no idea when my mother was born.
(lau gh ter) I c an find out f or you . But I don 't know.
JE: Anyway, he was Valentine Day - that 's 14th of - what?
SE: February 14.
JE: Yeah, well, uh - huh, 1922.
SE: Yeah .
JE: And Nick was -
SE: The baby.
JE: 61 when he died.
SE: Yeah .
JE: So-
SE: 61.
JE: He must have been born in 1924 or 5.
SE: Yeah, a round there , yeah .
JE: His b i rthday was i n March.
PM: You mentioned always being back home for Christmas -
J E: Uh-huh.
PM: So obviously that was important.
J ames Theodore Escobedo
JE: Yeah .
PM: How did you celebrate Christmas?
JE: That's every year. It was a must.
PM: How did you celebrate Chri stmas when you got home a ft er
the harvest?
J E : Oh, we were all together.
PM: What did you do?
J E: Oh - we - most of it - buy clothes and pay the debts
because we had always owed that store i n Elmendorf . And one
- we always brought back from $500 to a $1, 000. But t hat ' s
in a group see? The old- timers - they let Momma keep all
the money and -
SE : She was the one that dished out for the expenses .
JE: Yeah. And when we got home she would f i gure out how
much we owed and then she ' d give us what was left, because
Daddy had to have some beer money.
PM: (l aughter)
SE: (laughter) That ' s about - that's for sure.
JE: You know he drank beer a l l his life and he lived to be
86. I don't think it hurt him any.
SE: He was quite a character , I ' ll tell you . He's the
fi rst person I ever met that to l d me that he had been bitten
by a buffalo . Remember when he had those big - ?
J E: yeah, uh-huh - on the side -
SE: My grandfather had these - was very muscular as a young
James Theodore Escobedo
man - very, very muscular and wel l I guess because of the
hard work he did, as he got older this muscle r eally sagged.
JE: Yeah, it was just loose .
SE: And so it was a loop - like this - underneath his arm
and I would come over and sit on his lap and he - and I
would ask him about i t - we would do it every single time
I'd go over there and he'd say a buffalo had bitten him .
PM: Aw. ( l aughter) That's the story, uh?
SE: (laughter)
JE: You know - Junior - Junior used to have a - used to
play with it - part of his -
SE: Oh, yeah, Junior is one of my cousins. So my cousin
used to pull on i t like this all the time.
PM: How old were children when they first began picking
cotton? What was the normal age?
JE: Well - just - we really - was just me and my oldest
brother that done all the picking - the others were too
young .
PM: Uh-huh.
JE: My - I was 14 the first year we went, 15 when we left -
following year we moved - and of course my brother was 7
years older, the oldest. On the 2nd year we went down t here
I picked as much as he did, he was surprised . But I was so
much bigger than him.
SE: Uh- huh .
James Theodore Escobedo
JE: And he -
SE: Daddy was taller than he was.
JE: We picked 500 pounds a piece and we 'd go home.
Sometimes we'd make it at 3 o'c l ock -
SE:
JE:
SE:
We were what the cotton- pickers called "quinteneros."
Quinteneros?
JE: Yeah.
SE: Instead of quinteneras ., . quinteneros?
JE: Quinteneros . Yeah.
SE: Daddy, did you ever see any l ittle kids on - picking
cotton out in the fields?
JE: Who?
SE: Did you ever see any little kids like younger than you
picking cotton? Never?
JE: No. Because it was really too hot, it was a 100 -
sometimes a 110 in t he shade and there was no shade.
(laughter)
SE: Right. There was no shade out there.
PM: Talk about a typical day picking cotton. I noticed one
place in here you wrote about you were so tired that you'd
be gathering water and would fall asleep b e fore you could
wash up.
JE: Yeah. Well, that was when me and my brother was by
ourselves - we'd go up to Wes t Texas, and then Momma and Dad
James Theodore Escobedo
they'd stay home. There was only - I think 4 of us - single
you know - single men - and my job was to go get water. I'd
get the water and I'd sit down after washing I'd go to s l eep
- I was so tired, you know, because I was younger than a ll
of them. (laughter) I was only about 17 - 16.
ki lls you.
SE: Yeah. That's hard work.
PM: Describe-
JE: We were pulling 1,000 pounds a piece .
PM: Wow.
It really
JE: And they were all - these other 2 guys that were with
us - they were mariachis -
SE: Oh.
JE: And you t ake about from Friday night until Sunday nigh t
- we'd never see them, they'd go singing in little towns.
SE: And places around?
J E: Yeah.
PM: What did you do for entertainment on your nights off?
JE: Oh, no, we had - we had our work cut out - me and my
brother we ' d wash the clothes and get them ready for the
following week - we didn't never go out nowheres. In fact,
sometimes we had to have one of them to cut our hair because
we had no time to go. One of them boys was pretty good with
the scissors and he'd cut - we didn't even have time to go
get a haircut.
James Theodore Escobedo
PM: How long was your workday? What time would you start
and what time would you be finished?
JE: I was 15 years old and when I quit I was 25. I got
married when I was 26.
PM: Right. During the day itself - a workday would start
at when? At 8 o'clock? At 9 o'clock?
JE: Oh - no -
PM: Ear lier?
JE: We'd walk when - before it - daylight - and wait on the
end till we could see. My daddy - he was up at 4 o ' clock
and he -
PM: Sun-up to sundown.
JE: Yeah. He was building a fire and cooking bread for
Momma. Sometimes Momma made torti l las - a stack about this
big - because -
SE: And big.
JE: These single guys -
SE: Like that.
JE: These single guys that picked with us - quinteneros we
cal l ed them - they want a place to stay but all the families
had girls and our family was only 3 boys, so naturally
they ' d board with Momma a l l t he time. (laughter) So she
had as many as 7 sometimes to feed.
PM: So she didn't pick cotton she fed the camp.
JE: No, she'd go - I 've got a surprise for you - she'd go
James Theodore Escobedo
at 9 o'clock and pick 500 pounds and come back with it, she
was fast.
PM: Wow .
SE: She knew what she had to do.
JE: Yeah, she was fast. And t hen she'd come home and cook
supper for us.
PM: Who took care of your younger brothers when she was
doing all of the work?
JE: Oh, we helped her a lot, all we could. Daddy would
make the bread and I always come home and my brother before
everybody else so we built a fire and that was the biggest
thing to do. And-
SE: What about Uncle Nick? Did Grandma do that after uncle
Nick was born? Did she go in the fie l d and pick? Or did
she stay home with Uncle Nick?
JE: No, no . Uncle Nick stayed - stayed with a lady named
Jimenez.
SE : Oh.
JE: Uh- huh.
SE: A lady in the camp took care of him.
JE: The lady had 2 little ones too and so -
SE : So she just took car e of him wi th the oth ers.
JE: Yeah - he stayed with her. Cleto we took him when he
was 9 years old - he'd -
SE: So Tio Cleto was the baby in the field . (laughter)
James Theodore Escobedo
JE: Yes . He worked pretty good - being so young.
SE: So young.
JE: Yeah.
PM: Tell me about the food you would eat when you were on
the migrant trai l . You mentioned your mother cooking
tortillas, what else did she cook? What did you eat?
JE: Oh, what did we eat? Well, the first thing is beans,
but she mashed them and put bacon in it and make it real
tasty. But half of the time she'd make stew out of meat and
potatoes and everything else. It had to be something fast
because there wasn't very much time, it got dark on her you
know and we didn't have no light - heck, we didn't know what
a radio was .
got
SE:
JE: Yeah.
No running water.
that tank .
tank.
(laughter)
We had to get ........... .
live
. .. about
a 1/2 weeks water ... take quite a bit to bathe at night and
all that.
PM: What happened when people got sick? Who took care of
them?
JE: Got sick? Oh - the boss, the foreman, he'd come and
get them . We had one that got snakebit -
SE: Oh.
JE: and he was pretty close - we went and told him and
he came and hauled them off - took him to Corpus. He didn't
James Theodore Escobedo
become - oh, well, he got sick all right - and he got
swollen - but it didn't kill him, you know, - .......... .
The boss stayed pretty close. He'd come every evening to
check on it and see how you're doing. Especially the people
that were sick, yeah , he stayed pretty close.
PM: How did you feel about your bosses? Did you feel they
were treating you fairly?
JE: Oh, yeah .
PM: Did they pay you fairly?
JE: The only time that we got treated bad was some - we
were coming back and there's a little town named Winchell on
this side of Brownwood and we stopped to buy tobacco
we would camp about - oh, I ' d say about 20 miles
from Mason and we'd make coffee and sleep there at night.
If the old Model T truck - they don't go fast - this guy was
standing there in the store and says that - You all want a
job? {Robert Maulden} and Daddy looked at me and he says -
What kind of job? We knew the cotton was over, said -
Picking pecans. I got a big pecan . and I need some
help. So Daddy said, Well, let 's try it a week. And we
bought 40 - I think we picked 40 sacks of those - 200 pound
sacks, you know, 200 pound sacks, and we filled up 40 - the
whole family you know.
SE: Yeah . That ' s a lot of pecans.
JE : And those - there was one guy - one of those guys
James Theodore Escobedo
riding with us - he also helped us.
SE: Yeah.
JE: And one morning my brother got out there just before
the old man - we had Momma with us and everything and he
started counting and the old man picked up a 2x4 and he
said, What, do you think I stole something from you? That
was the only time ........... . So Momma got in between
them . He did have respect for Momma and he paid us and we
l eft . I'll tell you, t hat ' s the only time that - well, I
don 't know whether my brother was wrong or not but he was
j ust checking to see if they were all there - after all it
was our work - but that old man was hot- headed - his name
was Mauldin - F.A. Mauldin. But he had a beautiful pecan -
SE: Orchard.
JE: Oh - we left half of it on the ground - we just
couldn't do it -
SE: Pick it all.
PM: Was picking pecans easier than picking cotton? Which
did you prefer?
JE: I prefer pecans because you can get - buy a picker and
you don't have to lean - you can just stand up -
SE: Now yeah, but back then - how much work was it? You
have a picker now - but back then when you were picking it
for the f irst time - would you compare it to cotton?
JE: Well, I picked on - I picked on my knees.
James Theodore Escobedo
SE: Yeah.
JE: I could pick 300 pounds.
SE: Did that - was it harder work than the cotton?
JE: No, I wouldn' t say so.
SE: About the same?
JE: Cotton - you moved everything - you -
SE: Yeah .
JE: Your head.
SE: Body .
JE: Your body to pull and you're using your hands real fast
- you've got everything moving - I mean you're tired when
you get off . (laughter)
PM: Tell me what get sore? I would imagine your fingers
g e t sore and your back.
JE: What's that?
Is t hat right?
PM: What gets sore? When you're picking cotton all day and
you're so tired afterwards where do you ache? What muscles
are tired?
SE: Do you remember what used to hurt the most when you
were picking cotton? What parts of your body hurt?
JE: Oh - wha t part? - the back - the back - the spine -
yeah . I picked a lot on my knees - a whole l ot - they used
to sell us kne epads .
SE: Pads.
JE: Yeah - fo r $. 75. I saw t hem the other day for $2 and
James Theodore Escobedo
$2 . 85.
SE: Uh-huh - inflation.
JE: yeah (laughter)
SE : (laughter) I t's inflation, Daddy.
JE: No, my brother he could stand a whole l ot - l eaning -
you know - he could stand a whole lot - me, I had to get on
my knees every - I'd say about every 30 minutes.
PM : Did you give one another backrubs at night to try to
ease the pain?
JE : ah, no, after we clean up and -
SE: You were too tired to think about it?
JE: You'd hit the hay, you'd go to sleep, nobody's going to
wake you up . We used to buy these mosquito bars and put
them around the cot.
PM: Tel l me what a mosquito bar is I noticed your r eference
and I don't know what one looks like.
JE: It ' s a - well - let me have a piece of paper and I 'l l
show you.
SE: Draw - You'll draw us one.
JE: See - say we had our cots h ere - you know - all right -
they'd sell you these things here - they have a rod - a
round - it's a wire rod - and the cloth hangs down - see? -
and it's a real -
SE: Fine.
JE: Mesh, yeah - it ' s a - it's got holes in it just like
James Theodore Escobedo
mesh but -
PM: That's mosquito netting hanging from a framework?
JE: But anyway - mosquito won 't go in through it - too
small -
PM: Okay .
JE: And it hangs down to the ground here and all of - they
come down like this.
PM: Okay . Just like a tent made out of mosquito netting .
JE : And you put it on the outside of the -
PM : Netting that went around the bed?
JE : Out s i de of the frame here on your cot so that you
won't put your fo o t up against it or something, because
they 'l l eat you up, I'll tell you.
PM: Oh, I believe i t.
JE: (laught e r)
PM: So you slept on canvas cots or did the cots have
mattresses? What were they like?
JE: Well - I had - we used a c a nvas cot but I had an i ron
one, I bought one here at the Academy and I had it with me
a ll the t ime - the Academy.
PM: You provided your own bed and bedding? Or did the -
JE: Yeah. Uh-huh. yeah.
PM: Employer do that?
JE: Yeah.
PM: Okay .
James Theodore Escobedo
JE : It was so hot you didn't need no cover.
SE: Yeah. No air conditioning .
(laughter)
PM: You mentioned you didn't have any radios and very
little for entertainment -
JE: Nothing.
PM: Did you ever do anything like tell stories or sing
after supper at night? Did you ever make your own
entertainment? Or where you so tired you just went to bed?
JE: Oh, no, sometimes at night I had this guy (Chemo
Longoria, Frank Zulaica ) that picked with us - he had a
guitar and we ' d sing 2 or 3 songs at night - because he was
always picking on that guitar and there was a few songs we
knew so we'd sing them.
PM: Do you remember the songs? What were they?
JE: Yeah.
PM: What were the songs?
JE: Oh, what's the name of them?
PM: The name or . ..
JE: Well-
PM: Sing them if you can . That would be wonderful.
JE : La Paloma, Las Gaviotas and - I used to know another
one - En dita mia - Amelia - Amelia - Amelia - they were the
only ones that I knew the whole words, you know.
SE : Al l the words to.
JE: It ' s pretty hard . Since you don't have no radio, you
James Theodore Escobedo
never -
SE: Can ' t hear it.
PM: Did you speak Spanish with your other workers?
JE: Yeah . That's all we spoke.
PM: But you learned English too. Did you learn that at
school or where?
JE: Oh - we - we had some crews - Engl ish - Anglos - and
some of them coul dn't speak Spanish or anything, they were
in that bunch with us, some of them. I picked cotton with a
group from Electra, Texas, I don ' t know where the hell t hat
is, but they had about, oh, about 4 grown kids , they were
all grown and t he old man turned out to be real fri endly,
but they were surprised because I could talk English and
most of the other guys, cotton pickers, couldn't talk to
them - see - and I talked with them - why they liked that.
PM: Where had you learned English? Did your parents know
English?
JE: Oh, I learned it when I was 9 years old. I - with the
Warne ........ when I was 7 or 8 growing up, I used to stay
with the Sister ... one of them called Teenie (?) and she
was my baby-sitter. Now I could have learned German, but
they wouldn ' t tal k German to me because they didn' t want to
get me mixed up, they spoke English to me. That ' s the
reason . . . they wouldn't. They'd get in an argument and
sometimes I' d catch a word or two . I l earned quite a bit
James Theodore Escobedo
just listening to them but ...
SE: Of German?
JE: Yeah. But t hey wouldn't talk German to me.
PM: In your paper you mention starting school late that the
teacher was usually quite nice and cooperative?
JE: In that little town wh en you went to school if you
didn't talk German you couldn 't talk to nobody . That's a ll
there was. And what Mexican kids we had that couldn't talk
English because they were most going to migrants that came
across, you know, and left the kids here or they were
citizens. Anyway, they were surprised at me when I went in
there and I could speak to them, you know, you know how to
speak English? Yes. And they were surprised at tha t but I
hear the kids outside talking German - I knew what they were
saying . (laughter) That helped a lot.
SE : Yeah.
PM: What about your parents, did they understand English or
German?
JE: Who's that?
PM: Your parents - your father and mother.
JE: They couldn't speak nothing but Spanish . Momma could
talk English.
SE: Very little.
J E: Momma - Daddy could understand, but never spoke it, he
didn ' t want nobody to hear him talk .
James Theodore Escobedo
PM We ' re close to the end of the tape, I'm going to stop
it and turn it over so that it won't stop us in the middl e
of a sentence.
END OF TAPE 1, SIDE 1, ABOUT .. MINUTES.
SIDE 2.
PM: This is side 2 of the interview with Mr. Escobedo,
today is September 8, 1994.
Mr. Escobedo, we were talking a little bit about school
- that you usually missed the beginning of school because
you were doing migrant work and you would start late, and
that the teacher would make some adjustment for you - what
woul d she do?
JE: Always gave me the review work so that I coul d catch
up, because I only went half a year. And I'd spend my
nights trying to catch up, right in front of the fireplace
that at the Warne's, at night, I'd work up until 12 o'clock
every night . I'd catch up with them and usually pass.
PM: Were you the only child in this situation? or were
there other migrant children too?
JE: Yes, yes, yeah, my brother didn't go to school he was
already out. And the Warnes they were all grown - they were
a l l - I think Fritz was going to college when I was doing
that, which he is the youngest one of them. They're all
dead now even the lady's dead.
SE: Urn .
James Theodore Escobedo
PM: Was the school that you went to a small school?
JE: Elmendorf. Elmendorf Middle School.
PM: And your teachers were Anglo? or-
JE: All of them, yes, uh-huh.
PM: All of them were.
JE: Well, really they were from the - from Elmendorf .
there's a family there, 4 girls named Homricks, he used to -
the man had a meat market and they all went to San Marcos as
they grew up - one by one - and they came back and taught
school there in Elmendorf. Well, in those days you could
almost get whatever you want to if you had the pull, you
know. And we only had, I think, one different principal
named Jackson, the o l d lady, I don't know where she come
from but she was an old l ady, she was a good teacher, very
strict.
PM: Was you school segregated? or was it a mixture of
Mexican and Anglo children?
JE: Never, never, not t here. At Elmendorf you n ever knew
what segregation was . I don't know.
PM: And how did you feel about the relations between
people? were they pretty open?
JE: They were all wonderful because the way it was - they
were all pretty close you know. And most of them, in fact,
I don ' t know of any that were Protestant, they were all
Catholi cs and you know Catholics they don't - if it ' s a
James Theodore Escobedo
Negro he ' s going to be allowed to go to school there. We
d i dn't have any but if we did he was welcome, t hat's the way
it was .
PM : And there were Anglo children at your school too?
JE: Oh, yeah.
PM: Or was it mostly - ?
JE : Yeah, I' d say 90 percent .
PM: 90 percent.
JE: Most German - most of them .
PM: Uh-huh. And do you remember anything in your schooling
that particularl y stands out in your memory that you liked a
lot about it? or that you didn ' t like? How long did you go
to school? did you graduate?
JE: Oh, I went to the 10th grade. And I didn't - I didn't
understand algebra, so I quit. (laughter)
SE : .... . .... , uh?
JE : I would have graduated but I couldn't. bit I couldn't
get on to algebra.
PM: And most of t he other students were from farms? or
from the rural community too?
JE : Yeah, uh-huh, yeah .
PM: I wanted to talk a l ittle bit more about your living
conditions, about the shacks you were in, when you were on
the migrant trail? You said you brought your own bedding -
you brough t it or bought it - did it have any other
James Theodore Escobedo
furnishings? did they have floors? or were they dirt
floors?
JE: Yeah they sure did the floor and they got a window.
But they were 12 by 12 and if a family had more than 8 they
would let them have 2. Of course there were as many as 40
of them lined up, you know what I mean, they're all the
same. That's the way they were. No, they were rain- proof
I'd say and kind of built high, they were pretty good in
that shape . ..
PM: You talked about being caught in a couple of storms
a hurricane that came and got the cotton crop one year.
JE: Yeah, that was a sand storm. You know I found out that
not a one of those farms are without a cellar for that
purpose .
SE: Uh-huh. Storm cellar.
PM: Yeah, in fact on page 11 you were talking about the
foreman or the boss came and told everyone to go to the
cellar and I think that part of this page got cut off
because I didn't find out what happened.
SE: (laughter)
PM: (laughter) See ... find it - saw our boss come down
the road doing about 60 miles an hour and stopped right in
front of our group . He said, Quick, grab everything, go to
the ranch as fast as you can, and get the family in the
cellar. My wife was there - is there - she will show you.
James Theodore Escobedo
Yell to everyone - storm i s coming - let 's go - and go
quick. And then - this part I'm having a little trouble
reading - We got there, shut the glasses on my 1935
JE: It was in the car.
PM: Okay, then what happened? ( laughter) Because the next
page is talking about when you got the job at Kelly, it
doesn't tell the rest of the story of the storm. Did the
storm hit?
SE: So there you were inside the car and you had the
windows rolled up, did you ever make it back to the farm?
or d i d you have to stay inside the car?
JE: We just stayed inside, you couldn't see your hand in
f ront of your face.
SE: You couldn't drive the car?
JE: Oh no.
SE: So you were stuck in the car i nside the storm?
JE: Yeah. And I had the brakes on and I tied it to the
back of one of them big telephone posts he had there
SE: Yeah.
JE: And when the storm was over -
SE : Yeah .
JE: It was a 1/2 inch of dust inside - al l over the car.
SE: The car.
JE: And on - where did it go t hrough? I don't know, but it
James Theodore Escobedo
SE : It made it i nside.
JE: Yes .
SE: It was blowing so hard that it just came t hrough any
little crack it could .
JE : Yes.
PM : So i t was a dust storm .
JE: The only thing left - just the stems of the cotton.
SE: That was it.
JE: Stalks - that's all.
SE: Everything was gone .
JE : It just took all the limbs besides the cotton and
everything else. And i t was only about November, late, it
wasn't time to go home but -
PM: The times like this where you were out harvesting a
crop and a storm came and destroyed the entire crop, did the
owner, the boss, still pay you for the work you had done
even though he saw that everything was lost?
JE: Oh, yes.
PM : They were very fair with that?
JE: We had 350 pounds on the field, we'd staked it, put a
tarp on it and he said, I don ' t have room for it. I'll get
it tomorrow. When we came back tomorrow we couldn't even
find the tarp. (laughter) I asked him, Where do you think
that is? That cotton is over at Abilene .
James Theodore Escobedo
SE : (laughter)
JE: That's about 60 miles away. (laughter)
SE: That cotton's flown t he coop . (laughter)
PM: When you were on the migrant trail and needed to buy
things - was there a store where you could get them? and
did you have cash?
JE : Cash?
PM : When you needed supplies? when you needed new shoes?
or some medicine?
JE: Oh, we ' d go to town on Saturdays.
PM: Go to town and get what you n eeded there.
JE: Yes, uh- huh, every Saturday. We'd go to town on
Saturday . We didn ' t do any picking on Saturday .
PM: I was interested in the story, I think you said you
were 11 and the boss had come by and paid your family and
your father gave you $5 and i t was the first time you'd had
$5 of your own and you chose to spend it on clothes.
SE: (laughter)
PM: Why clothes?
JE: That ain't nothing, on the second year when I started
picking 500, he gave me a $20 bill and I didn't know what to
do with it.
SE: Do with it.
JE: Yeah.
PM: What did you do?
James Theodore Escobedo
JE: Went to Corpus. And Corpus had so many people you
couldn't hardly walk on the street.
SE: Yeah.
JE: And remember they had them black - those white shoes
with the black soles?
SE: Oh, yeah.
JE : I bought 2 pair of them because I had lot of money.
(laughter) They only cost $2 . 50.
SE : God, $2 . 50 for a pair of shoes.
PM: I still find that so interesting when you think of what
kids do today when they first spend money -
SE: $5 - with $5 -
PM: There ' s not many who put it to clothes are there?
JE: And they had those pants that come to about here -
SE: Oh, your wai s t, yeah, way above your waist like a zoot­suit.
JE: I bought about 4 or 5 of them. They were $1.50 I
believe.
SE: $1.50.
JE: They were cotton. They were not -
SE: Yeah, but still, cotton's expensive now. Shoot.
JE: They ' re $27 n ow. I saw them the other day.
PM: So when you got the fancy clothes, where did you wear
them?
JE: When I came back.
James Theodore Escobedo
PM : You came back.
SE: Daddy, do you remember the story you told me about how
you learned to play cards? And how you got your first car?
JE : Oh, that was in a little town of Ackerly.
SE : Ackerly?
JE: Uh-huh, we were in Brady and he says, Hey, I' ve got 2
weeks work in Ackerly . Well, we didn ' t leave there until
one month later and that guy had a good crop.
SE: Yeah.
JE: Anyway, there was a group of colored pickers on the
other farm.
SE : Uh-huh.
JE: 3 men, and they went ahead and came to our shack you
know -
SE : Yeah.
JE : And they said, That you al l have any cards? We'd like
to playa li ttle poker. So we got in our room, t he boys had
a room by hisself, and we sat t here, I guess we started
about 2 o ' clock and we got up about 9 o'clock.
SE: My goodness.
JE : And I was $90 ahead.
SE: Wow!
JE: So when I came to San Antonio I bought the first car
for $75.
SE: (laughter)
James Theodore Escobedo
PM: You bought a car for $75? (laughter)
JE: I paid - what helped me was that I paid cash for it.
SE : Yes . (laughter)
PM: Wow!
SE: His first car, on gambling money.
PM: Did you gamble for entertainment a fair amount? Is
that what people would do for fun?
JE : Well, I'll tell you what happened. This man that was a
shark, he used to do nothing but gamble. One day he was
going with them colored guys to town and the guy closed the
door on his hand, busted the fingers, so he couldn' t use
them no more . So he took a liking to me and he says, Jim,
I'm going to teach you something and you go ahead and get
set down and gamble and I'll bet on you . Okay. So I
practi ced and I practiced . Well, young you know, you catch
on real fast, I could deal from the bottom and he said
nobody could notice it. And that's the easiest way to cheat
you know .
PM: So he taught you the skills to be a shark?
JE: Yeah.
SE: Yeah. Make a lot of money that way .
JE : I was playing one time wi t h Manuel .
SE: Uh- huh.
JE: He was always bragging about playing poker and
a l eover(?)
James Theodore Escobedo
SE: Oh, yeah.
JE: And I never said nothing . Nick knew you know -
SE: Yeah .
JE: And he said, Why don't you play in there and show these
guys how to play poker? And one old boy he said, Yeah - he
had a big wad of bills you know . And I sat down with them.
And they deal and give you 5 at a time. So I got the - what
I did after - when I dealt - I dealt 5 to them and I dealt
my 5 from the bottom. So they couldn't understand - I got
in there and got 4 aces at the first time.
SE: (laughter)
PM: (laughter)
SE: They never saw you.
JE: I won $40 a straight and they quit -
SE: They decided that was it.
JE: Yeah, because the following time I had 4 kings.
SE: Oh.
JE: They couldn't understand that.
SE: How'd you do 4 kinds so high.
JE: Yeah.
PM: Did your mother approve of this? (laughter)
JE: I could still do i t.
SE: Yeah. When did you l earn to play cards, Dad, how old
were you?
JE: Oh, at that time I was about 22 - 23.
James Theodore Escobedo
SE : Uh-huh, so you were sti l l picking cotton then.
PM:
J E: Oh, yes.
SE : So this was your recreation on Saturday nights?
JE: Going with this trucker, this old man, because he had a
truck.
SE: So you used to play cards for entertainment?
JE : Yeah. He didn't pick no cotton, he'd go to town and
open up a carpet there and they'd sit down and gambl e with
them. Oh, he was fast. He had a sharp hand. Shoot dice
with him. I saw him make 21 passes straight.
SE: My goodness!
JE : He's just good.
SE: Yeah.
J E: I got to where I could make maybe 15 - 20, but -
SE: That's about it.
J E: By that time nobody fades you.
SE: Yeah.
PM : I'd like to talk a bit more about your growing up
years . One special interest we've got for the exhibit is
family life. Did you feel that your family was a close- knit
family and you supported one a nother fairly well?
JE: Yeah. I' ll tell you, my Daddy was real good-hearted.
He wasn't tight a bit. Comparing him with other daddys t hat
were with us - now - the other guys would get $5 - $10 - and
James Theodore Escobedo
he never would drop less than $20. He was good-hearted with
us. He never was t ight. In fact, he used to give money to
al l the kids that used to come see him. He loved to - loved
kids - he always did.
PM: Did your parents ever punish you? and what for? or
did they never punish you?
JE : Never - never.
PM: Never punished you.
JE : I never did do anything wrong. I tried to - I loved my
mother because she was such a hard worker . And so - in fact
I was the only one that helped her wi th the washing . When
she was - on Sunday washing - I'd get in there and help her
- just - we didn't have no girls you know - so -
PM: uh-huh. I 'l l bet she appreciated that .
JE: Yeah .
no gripe.
I stayed pretty close to Momma. And so - have
PM: Did your family go to church? What role did religion
play for you?
JE: No during the time we were picking because we never
knew where the heck to go . (laughter)
SE: Where you were going to be at.
JE: But when we were at home during the winter we'd go over
here . I ' d walk wi th her and we'd go to a little church we
had in Elmendorf. Real old and you know that the boys that
I know now, that were raised with me, want to know if I've
James Theodore Escobedo
got a picture of it.
even have a camera .
I said , I'd tell you t ruth, I didn't
SE: Back then . Unh- unh. Yeah.
JE: So I drew a picture of a church , best I could and
colored it. And they took i t, t hey've got i t hanging i n t he
- (laughter) - in the hall there.
SE: In the hall over at the church? Is that at St.
Anthony ' S? Yeah? St. Anthony 'S Church?
J E: When I first remember going in - just think - first
remember going in , a lot of people with those 2- wheel carts
- horses -
SE: Uh-huh.
J E: 3 or 4 of them, only 1 or 2 people had Model Ts .
SE : Model cars.
JE : Yeah.
SE: Wow .
JE: So that must have b een way back there in ' 21 - '2 2 .
PM : Way back .
SE : Daddy, at Chri stmas time did grandma make tamales?
JE : Every t ime, make around 30 dozen.
SE: Of tamal es? Did you guys help her or did she do it by
herself?
JE: Daddy would always get 2 heads and so that's a hell of
a lot of tamales.
SE: Yeah . Two heads, my God .
James Theodore Escobedo
JE: But she'd make 'em fast. I'd help her you know.
SE: Did everybody else help her? or did just you and
Daddy? you and Grandpa?
JE: Yes, me and Poppa. I done all that .
SE: Empanadas. {Embalando}
JE: Yeah and put it down in the shuck you know .
SE: Uh-huh.
JE: But she was fast when it come to -
SE: Making them.
JE: They'd grind the meat with a knife, didn't have no -
SE: Oh, so it was in chunks? No meat grinder.
JE: No meat grinder, that's a heck of a lot of work.
PM: Lot of work.
SE: Yeah.
PM: Sure. What e lse did your family do at Christmas
besides the tamales?
JE: Well, usually we ' d get a lot of people, because they'd
come to eat tamales . But Momma made sure that we'd go to
the mid-night Mass.
SE: Uh-huh.
JE: Sometimes we're scared it's so dark.
SE: To walk all that way?
JE: Yeah. About 2 blocks we had to walk.
SE: Uh-huh.
SE: Did you guys exchange gifts?
(laughter)
James Theodore Es cobedo
JE: No.
SE: Never exchanged gifts?
JE:
SE:
Momma just bought straight gifts for the kids.
That was it .
JE: We didn 't have many that time. (laughter)
SE:
JE:
Yeah. Did you do a Christmas tree?
No .
SE:
JE :
SE :
Did you put up a Christmas tree?
We never had a Chris t mas tree.
Yeah .
JE: She would get somebody to bring it. I remember Solo
Serve and she'd buy clothes for the kids.
SE: Yeah.
JE: But we never had a Christmas tree.
PM: Were there other holidays dur ing the year that you 'd
observe or did you do something special wh en it was one of
the children's birthdays?
JE: Well, we never did celebrate any of their birthdays or
mine either. I used to celebrat e my brother's, valent ine
Day, we 'd cook barbeque and - but he drank too much and
killed hisself - developed cirrhosis of t he liver and he
died.
SE: Yeah.
PM: That's sad.
JE: Yeah.
James Theodore Escobedo
PM : You mentioned you helped your Mom with the wash, did
she have a washing machine? How was she doing it?
JE: Oh, no, just a washboard (noise).
SE: A tub and a
PM: Washing tub
SE: . .. washboard. I still have ...
PM: A lot of work.
JE: Washboard - they call it - ain't it?
SE: Well, if I have the washboard that my grandmother gave
my mother when my mother married my Dad - (laughter) -
PM: Okay.
SE: Their washing machine - (laughter) - their washing
machine was the washboard.
PM: (laughter) That's wild .
SE: Yeah.
( l aughter)
PM: That's an enormous amount of work to wash c l othes that
way.
JE: Just think, they ' d take the corn, boil it at night,
before Christmas, then the next day they ' d take the metate
and they'd grind the meat -
SE: Make the masa.
JE: Wi th tha t thing. That ' s a heck of a l ot of work.
PM: You bet it is. I bet she got sore too.
JE: Yeah.
SE: Wow .
She got sore knees all the time for it .
James Theodore Escobedo
JE : But she tried to get my brother to do that but he
wouldn ' t do it. (laughter) He ' d run off.
SE: Tio Nino?
JE: Yeah.
SE: That would have been a sight seeing him doing that -
grinding the corn .
PM: What was the year when you got the job at Kelly?
JE: Oh. The way it happens - I - we came back you know from
cotton picking and he told me he says, Hey, why don't you go
to work where I'm working? I said, Where you working? He
said, Kelly. I says, Just tell them you used air drill and
electric drill and you worked with wrenches over there at
the factory, in fact, we had worked at the factory some -
you see -
PM: You did indeed know how to use these drills?
JE: Yeah, yeah - in between, in the winter. And I said,
Well, where do you go? He says, Hell, be ready tomorrow and
I 'll take you. So I got ready and I went with him. He took
me, brought me back that evening and I rode with him about 6
months. I got on right away. They were hiring them left
and right. I got in as a helper. Yeah, 3 months later I got
my junior and about a year I got a senior and the last, oh,
about - I guess about 6 months later I made inspector and I
was -
PM: Fast advancement .
James Theodore Escobedo
JE: An inspector until the last of the 4 years, then I was
foreman all of the 2nd shi ft. But I stayed with the line
all of the time . Most of them went to the - you know - the
Pennsylvania - white-collar - they all transferred out. I
never did, I stayed with it.
SE: Maintenance .
I liked what I was doing.
PM: What year did you begin working at Kelly?
J E: '41 - later part of '41 . And I left in ' 81 .
PM: Forty years, that's something.
SE: Yeah .
PM: Not many people do that. And that was after many years
of working in the fields .
JE: Forty years .
PM: What happened to the rest of your family? did they
eventually get j obs?
JE: My brother, the young one, went to France and he got
shot up and he was disabled when he came back.
SE: In the war.
JE: He got a job - but about 3 years he got - later he got
Alzheimers and the youngest one, he went to work for Supply
at the Terminal and I don 't know , he had a good job but he
just didn't take interest. He kept the job and retired from
it, but kept drinking too you know, that made it -
PM: What about your father did he continue being a farm
worker a ll of his life?
James Theodore Escobedo
JE: Who?
PM: Your father .
JE: Oh, my Daddy.
PM: Uh-huh.
JE: Oh he died - he died working for the City, he was
working fo r the City. My oldest brother he got a job with
the Judson Candy Company.
SE: Yeah.
JE: And then he got sick and the kids took him to
California. He died up there. Yeah, he was 81 years old, he
l ived in California a long time. I'd say about 20 years,
isn't it?
SE: Yeah, that' s where he retired. They retired in
California.
PM: Did you ever have any regrets? Was there anything you
ever missed about being a farm worker? Or were you glad to
be working at a steady j ob with Kelly?
JE: Yeah, I loved it. I loved my job . That's why I stayed
with it. They were nice to me, they went ahead and sent me
to Biloxi, Engineering School.
PM: For training.
J E: The best one in the nation. And when I got out, they
told me, he says, I 'm going to change your MOS - that
Captain - I didn't know what he was doing, but anyway, I'm
going to change your MOS, you're going to be an inspector
James Theodore Escobedo
now - Army AF (?) - I was in the Service - in the Army - he
says, I 'm going to send you to Chennault because the jets
are coming in, we had one called the F-80 -
SE: Uh-huh .
JE And was just coming in - said I want you to know
something about it. So he sent me to Chennault, I stayed
there - oh, 6 weeks and there I was a PFC showing them guys
how to run - and all of them guys were ex-offi cers, about 5
or 6 of them - (laughter)
PM : Really? Alright .
JE: I knew how to run-up, but they didn't. See they were
officers and they signed - after the War - like Tech
Sergeants - to be Line Chiefs - but they knew nothing about
an airplane.
SE: They didn't know about the parts and about running it.
JE: Yeah. Uh-huh. Some of them were mechanics but - then
the desk, you know , they'd sit -
SE : They really don't have any practical experience.
JE: In the office, yeah, they never did any work actually -
SE: Yeah.
JE: But they were all a good group. I - and when I
graduated I was surprised. I made a 100.
SE: Hey.
JE: That was the biggest surprise I ever -
SE: Excellent. Al l right.
James Theodore Escobedo
PM: Good for you.
SE: That's great .
JE: Yeah. We had a big long test. It was about 2 pages.
But I had done that practical - all of that was practical.
I didn't have no education like they did. Some of them boys
were probably ........... they were all - I felt good
sitting there with t hem. We had 5 Chinamens from China
and they would tear up anything you see . They wanted to see
how it worked.
SE: Oh, take it apart.
JE: They'd come in there early -
SE: Uh-huh.
JE: And take a generator and tear it all - (laughter) -
that - I thought that - one time I thought that instructor
was going to get a stroke . (laughter)
SE: (laughter)
PM : (laugh ter)
JE: Oh, he was so mad - he was so mad. (laughter) - i t took
them 4 hours to put it back together again. Oh.
SE: Back together again.
PM: You seemed to have been very pleased with your job .
JE: That's the way they are.
PM: And your career. Do you have any regrets about your
early life? Do you wish any of tha t had been different
about your childhood? Or do you f eel that it all worked out
James Theodore Escobedo
fine?
JE: Well - I like - you know - I found out one thing - I
asked the guys from Panama - and 2 from Puerto Rico, How did
they managed to get in here? They said, First of all - that
we do have a school - English -
SE: Oh.
JE: And then you volunteer to fight - you know - and so
some of them were mechanics so they sent them to school ,
they were American citizens when the War was over .
SE: That's right.
JE: Pretty good.
SE: So you learned about the advantages of being able to
speak both languages right away.
JE: Yeah .. . . .. you know - they - he said that
a l ot of them wanted to but couldn ' t speak English.
SE: That ' s right.
JE: These guys spoke real good.
SE: Learned in school.
JE: Even i f they 'd - studied tha t . Yeah.
SE: Daddy, tell Phyllis about how you didn't fight in the
War.
JE: Well.
SE: (laughter)
JE : We were -
PM: Sounds good.
James Theodore Escobedo
JE : We were headed for the Philippines and when we got to
Salt Lake City, you know that ' s Kearner one day - we were
just going to ship out about 2 or 3 days later, we were just
waiting for transportation, when here come a guy, I didn't
know he was a Captain , he was in a jump-suit, you know, PE.
Anybody here wants to play ball? I need some ball players .
I said, what position? He said. Anyone. I said, Okay,
when do you practice? This evening you come out, okay? I
came out and I never did leave first base. I stayed there .
PM: Stayed there for the War?
SE: (laughter)
JE: All my crew. All my crew shipped out.
from them from Clark .
SE: Air Force Base in the Philippines.
J E: And I was playing ball.
I got a letters
PM: That's a laugh. We're almost at the end of the tape .
J E: I liked it because -
PM: I'm going to stop it here so we're not in the middle of
a sentence .
JE: They 'd give you a married man's pay ... and everything .
SE: Yeah .
PM: Really?
END OF TAPE 1, SIDE 2, ABOUT .. MINUTES .