THE INSTITUTE OF TEXAN CULTURES
Tejano Community Advisory Committee Meeting
INTERVIEW WITH: Josie Alvarado, Tita Jaramillo,
Steve Hay, Sergio Hernandez
DATE: 16 October 1994
PLACE: St. Joseph's Church, Lubbock, Texas
INTERVIEWER: Laurie Gudzikowski
G: This is Laurie Gudzikowski, and it is October 16, and we're in Lubbock, Texas, at a Tejano Community Meeting and this tape 2, and I would like to go around the room and have everyone say their name into the tape so that we will have your names on tape.
SH: Sergio Hernandez.
JA: Josie Alvarado.
TJ: Tita Jaramillo.
G: And your name is?
SH: Steve Hay ... H-a-y.
G: Okay. Thank you very much and we're talking about the Tejano community in Lubbock and before we went on break Tita was saying a little bit about how she'd always ... even though she left school very early she always had a good job.
Tita: I had good jobs.
G: Tell me about your work experience because it sounds like something really interesting.
Tita: Well, when I quit working to have my children then in 1968 I went back to work. And I went to work at a motel as the head supervisor of the cleaning girls ... you know ... the head housekeeper. And I didn't know anything about timecards. But this insurance man got me this job and he said you can do it. A friend of Josie's help me fill out my application and I got the job. The next day I went in and I had my own little office, I had my telephone, I had everything. (laughter) So the girls there showed me what they had to do and I went on with that job for ... from there I stayed there about 4 years. Then I quit that job and they offered me a better job at the ................ Inn ... they gave me real good money ... and I went with that ... but I had more experience then. And then I worked there for about 5 years and then they went bankruptcy. And I went with 3 girls ... they told me about TI ... and I went with 3 girls to make an application. But the people I had worked for were from San Diego and they had made for me ... what do they call that? ...
Josie: Reference letter. They gave her a reference letter.
Tita: And all those girls had graduated from high school.
G: Uh-huh.
Tita: But I didn't have high school ... so I just show him that letter and they put me to work that next day.
G: Doing what?
Tita: Oh, well, we done watches.
G: So you were working on a ...
Tita: ....... assembly line ...
G: ... on assembly line?
Tita: ... and they ... I got a job as the group leader too. Tejano Community Meetings - Lubbock, Texas
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And from then on I just worked there until ... until I retired.
G: And did you enjoy that kind of work?
Tita: Oh, I loved it. I loved everyone of my jobs I ever had.
G: Well, no wonder you made a success of them. If you love you job that's half the key to success I think. Josie, how about your work ... your work experience and history?
Josie: I ... I'm a nurse ... I'm a registered nurse and also a nurse practioner ... Ob/Gyn nurse practioner. I do a lot of work in the community trying to help people access health services.
G: When you say the community do you mean specifically the Hispanic or Tejano community?
Josie: Right. I've got a radio talk show doing health education twice a week at a ... one of the Spanish speaking radio stations. And I work real close with the parish and formed a parish health ministry so that we could bring in services through the parishes. And I set up clinics in the community.
G: Did you go to school here in Lubbock? Did you go to Tech? Did you get your degree from Tech?
Josie: Yes, I graduated from Tech. And I went to Southwestern Medical in Dallas to get my Ob/Gyn nurse practioner. And I work for the Lubbock City Health Department.
G: So you have your own practice ... you don't work for ...?
Josie: No, I work for the Lubbock City Health Department.Tejano Community Meetings - Lubbock, Texas
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G: Health Department, okay. And what are your career aspirations Sergio?
Sergio: Well, first I want to start with some of the jobs that I've had. First when I was 15 years old I wanted to make sure that my dad didn't tell me that I had it easy ... and that he struggled so much and I didn't (laughter) ... so ...
G: (laughter) Like all parents tell their children. (laughter)
Sergio: ... so right away as I turned 16 it was legal to work ... every summer or every time I had off from high school I started working at manufacturing ... clothing ... factories ... across the border. My dad always liked .... work either in El Paso or in Juarez ... and runnning a manufacturing ... clothing kind of store ... ............ and ...
G: So you went to Mexico to work? Is that what you say?
Sergio: I worked there once ...
G: Okay.
Sergio: ... and then after that then ... because I 15 and I couldn't work over here in El Paso so I worked over there. But then once I turned 16 I worked in 3 different factories and just doing manual labor ... you know ... sewing and ... I learned to sew and I learned to put all the rivets and everything on the pants and doing everything ... all that type of thing ... ............ And I guess it's ... you know ... Tejano Community Meetings - Lubbock, Texas
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I saw a lot of people ... a lot of people were really from Mexico and lot of people ... there was a lot of illegal women sort of working there. And I would ... I would see when people would go over there ... you know ... the border patrol would go over there and take them ... like it was just ... you know ... kind of like personal like ... I'd talk to them ... I spent 8 hours a day with them ... and I would talk to them. I saw a lot of differences ... like I'd explain to them ... I'm going to go to Tech ... and they didn't understand what Tech was ... they didn't even ... they just thought ... well, he's going to end up staying ... coming back here ... being here ... staying here. And I guess ... that's one of the things I saw ... one thing if you want ... that ... I think for sure you have to include ... when it comes down to doing this for the museum is including just the struggle ... not only the struggle ... it's all kinds of struggle ... it's discrimination and it's also putting ourselves down ... bringing ourselves down ... ..... being discouraged ... but I think it's not really ... only a few people had a real fight that they actually stand up for themselves and I think for Hispanics we only have a few people ... a few leaders like that. I feel like most of us are just submissive and we just ... most of us just grew up during times of discrimination and we just try to cope with it and live through it ... you know ... instead of standing up. Like a lot of Black Tejano Community Meetings - Lubbock, Texas
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leaders I felt have done so far in the past here in the US. I think that's one of the things that we need.
G: When you say ... We must show the struggle ... how do you suggest that we show this struggle? We're talking ... we're not talking about a book ... we're talking about visual things and ... I don't know ... how do you think that ... how do you think that ... what's a suggestion ... do you have a suggestion?
Sergio: I guess I would say for the workplace I'm saying ... show maybe the different kinds of jobs ... you know ... as they develop and as I guess if you could show a generation growing from the next generation one being like my father working at a manufacturing ... you know ... for clothes and me going into college ... me the only son going into college. I mean in someway you can maybe show that.
G: So you're the first person in your family to ...
Sergio: In my family.
G: ... go to college. Josie, were you the first person in your family to go to college?
Josie: Yes.
Sergio: So I think that's really ... That's one thing for sure you have to ... That's another thing when I came into Lubbock I saw way more discrimination compared to El Paso.
G: Uh-huh.
Sergio: Being that the majority of Hispanics are in El Paso. Tejano Community Meetings - Lubbock, Texas
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That's one thing.
Steve: Another part of the struggle could be ... I don't know if it's in your family but we see it ... we work with kids 10 to 17 years of age and the majority are Hispanic kids and a lot of times they have problems with their parents. The struggle on ... of course adolescence you go through that anyway ... any kid does ... on identity ... but it's more complicated because sometimes ... even though the parents are fairly young ... they're more in tune with Hispanic culture than the kids and that creates a tension. Because there's just a different value system there. The parents are a little more tradicional they're older and they think things should be done this way and the kids think they're ........ because Anglo and other kids don't do it that way. We see that struggle. That's a struggle right in the family.
Sergio: My brother and sister have a difficulty with that and my parents are real traditional ...
G: Uh-huh.
Sergio: ... they don't want to change no matter how hard we try and my brother and sister have a lot of problems with them.
G: Are your brother and sister older than you? Or are you older?
Sergio: Yes, they're older than me ... they're 24 and 25. And me ... I just turned 20 and it's like ... I could see the Tejano Community Meetings - Lubbock, Texas
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struggles that they went through the whole time and I was just a witness to the whole thing ... I never really got into any of the arguments ... but I learned that my parents aren't going to change and I shouldn't try to change them because the thing ... you know ... they brought us up ... I think the traditional ways of the Mexican family is ... they concentrated on the family itself ... it's a lot of concentration on the family and the children ... the bringing up. But ...
G: Did your family encourage you to ... in your college aspirations? Or ...?
Sergio: My ... yeah ... my family did. And they tried the same with my sister except certain problems came up and ... but they always told me ...
G: Sure ... they always encouraged you to do this.
Sergio: They always encouraged me.
G: How about you Josie, did your family encourage you to continue your education past high school? This was ... was this unsual in your age group?
Josie: Well, I ...
G: Particularly for a woman?
Josie: First of all I got married very young and then I went back to school after I had had my two children. So mine was not like Sergio's ...
G: Yours was not a traditional ...Tejano Community Meetings - Lubbock, Texas
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Josie: No
G: ... 18 year old go to college.
Josie: No, it was ... it would have been almost impossible I guess. I came from a very poor family and we struggled a lots. It was like trying to work and go on with our lives and I got married very young and so then from there ...
Tita: And she used to work for me and go to school.
G: And what did you do when you were working for your mother when you were going to school? (laughter)
Josie: Worked in the laundry.
G: Ah.
Tita: In the motel where I was working ...
G: In the motel.
Tita: ... she used to work for me.
G: And was she a good employee? (laughter)
Tita: This is the way I treated her. She used to say ... Mother, but why I can't I go in one of the rooms and rest a little while? ......... and I'd say ....... you're going to be treated just like the rest of them. You work like they work. I was real strict with all my employees ... they were all the same.
G: You were a fair boss.
Steve: I'd like to comment on Sergio ... I think that maybe Sergio didn't realize it but he did a very smart thing ... because Tejano Community Meetings - Lubbock, Texas
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you're going to be a psychologist and as the Hispanic population grows in the United States and it is growing rapidly ... because we see it in our line of work as social workers ... that psychologists who can speak Spanish and English ... you speak English perfectly and I'm sure you speak Spanish perfectly ... you're going to be very marketable and you're going to able to help yourself and also help a lot of other people. Whevever we hire anybody because we because we serve so many Hispanic people if everything is considered people have the same degree and more or less experience, somebody that can speak Spanish we hire them because we deal with so many Hispanics. And the majority of our staff are Hispanic. It's not that we're discriminating against anybody but it's really to serve the population that we're dealing with. So I think by the fact that you went as a young kid ... of course you might learn in your family ... but you went as a young kid to work along side with Mexican workers where you had to speak Spanish ... oh, man ... that's the best way in the world. Because there's so many ... well ... like fraternities ... sororities at Tech ... so many of those kids that I've met from ... you know ... like your age ... Hispanic kids ... they can't speak Spanish ... they can't speak Spanish. So you did a smart thing.
G: Was Spanish your first language? or ...?
Sergio: Yes. I started learning English ... well, I started Tejano Community Meetings - Lubbock, Texas
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in kindergarten.
G: Was Spanish your first language, ..........? Do your children speak Spanish? Great.
Sergio: And again one thing I was also discouraged about ... going into psychology that there's not that many jobs in psychology. You're probably like the second person that's told me that ... you know ... there'd be a lot of opportunities for me ... but a lot of people ... like my counselors in school ... was like ... you know ... like I went in to take on 5 classes in psychology this semester ... and they said ... Are you sure you can handle it? ... I don't think you can handle it. It's too much. I think I can do it ... I know I can do it. I mean that happens ... it's one thing that we talked about in the last meeting ... about retention of the students ... of Hispanic students on campus and the problem is just not having Hispanic or Black or minority professors or faculty or staff on campus. Because just a few faculty that we have in staff at Tech just those few help us so much ... help the minority organizations so much ... you know ... for publicity or for just purposes of service in the community.
G: Okay. Going back to our list of questions here and we've talked a lot about the history of Tejanos in the Pan Handle and what's unique and different here ... do you feel that there are traits that bind Tejanos together ... things that are un..... Tejano Community Meetings - Lubbock, Texas
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... that are not particularly different here in Lubbock ... but things that are universal across the Tejano community ... of the Hispanic community in Texas? Do you think that there are universals?
Steve: Language.
Josie: Language.
Steve: Church. Although ... 20 ... they say 20 percent of the Hispanic are mostly Mexican population in Texas is not Catholic ... but belongs to the church still ... 80 percent the studies show are Catholics. So I'd say that food ...
Josie: Family.
Steve: ... family.
Josie: Family values. Still try to hold on to the values as much as we possibly can.
G: Maybe we can talk a little bit about family values. Sergio sort of talked about his parents being very traditional and this friction that it caused between the generations ... maybe ... what do you think about traditional family values?
Sergio: (laughter)
G: They cause friction. (laughter)
Sergio: My opinion I guess it has to ... it has to ... how would you say? ... it has to change because no matter what ... the problems it's causing is just the way women are supposed to be submissive in a way. And my sister has a ..... has a Tejano Community Meetings - Lubbock, Texas
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big problem with that.
G: Uh-huh.
Sergio: And with my mom being that way and trying to be so understanding of the actions that my dad takes. And my sister ... she got married real young and she's divorced now and she understands how it is and she's not going to accept it. And she thinks it's ... I think it's an evolutionizing ... it's changing ... and I don't think it's ... it's probably all the same across Texas and just with Tejanos ... but it's ... I see it as a few differences ... like in Lubbock and in San Antonio. I have a girl friend who's from San Antonio and her parents are just ... they're both working ...
G: Uh-huh.
Sergio: ... so ... there's never anyone at home and they really they ... I thought ... she ... in a way she would tell me she's being neglected ...
G: Uh-huh.
Sergio: ... and that's one thing I always thought that the family value was not to neglect the children.
G: Uh-huh.
Sergio: You know ... concentrate on their upbringing. So I think in a few ways it does change or is different within cities.
G: Josie, what do you have to say about family values? You used the term family values and what do you mean by that term?Tejano Community Meetings - Lubbock, Texas
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Josie: I think the closeness of the family. I think we still ... we're still holding on to that. Like if there's a crisis in the family everybody is there. As far as women ... when you were talking you made a good point on women that were submissive before and then there's a change now. I think a lot of the problem is that you can go from one extreme to the other. And you're losing some of the values there in doing that. And I hate to see that ... either being too independent ... you lose some of the values and I think if we can still continue to keep ... keep a little of ... we can be more supportive with our own families.
G: Tita, another generational view about family values? a younger ... middle ... older generation?
Tita: I think that the closer you are to your kids the better it is. A mother is the whole standing of the family I think. Whether they're right or wrong you should be right there with them and try to straighten them out.
G: Uh-huh. Do you think that there's a change in family values that is happening now and for the better or for the worse? what do you think?
Tita: I think it's for the better.
G: Uh-huh.
Tita: I have a lot of grandchildren and I think they all have worked hard to have the jobs they have.Tejano Community Meetings - Lubbock, Texas
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G: Uh-huh.
Tita: And they all seem to have very good jobs. But they have worked to get it ...
G: Uh-huh.
Tita: ... I think you can make out of ourself what you want.
Steve: I think that ... you know ... family value-wise that still for the majority of the families in Texas ... Tejano families ... given ... given the economic status ... which is still I say atypical of Josie and probably Sergio ... which would still be minority ... also economic ... in other words ... on the middle class ... the lower middle class portion ... I think one of the values are children. And I think that your families have more children ... and statistics bear that out ... that Chicano ... or Tejano families have more children than the dominant population. Now as people make more money and women work out ... you know ... as much as the men ... and that's not to say that poor Hispanic family women don't ... they do ... but it seems like as you make more money then the number of kids goes down. But at this time in the history of Tejanos in ... I think that that's a real value. I mean it's not your ... what is it? your 2.1 child or whatever ... ....... 4 or 5 children and I think it's a value. People really look on children not as a liability but as an asset.
G: Does anybody have something to say to that? Sergio ....Tejano Community Meetings - Lubbock, Texas
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Sergio: One of the things that I saw in my family that was deteriorating ... that I see also compared to people here in Lubbock ... is the extended family ... is a big concentration on the extended family. As I grew up ... but once I was like 13 ... 14 ...
G: By extended family you mean ... ?
Sergio: Like aunts, uncles and grandma ... and everybody.
G: Okay.
Sergio: You know everybody was real together ... we ... once a year there's be like 20 parties maybe a year where everybody came together ... and now it's like maybe once a year. You know it's a lot of concentration now on the nuclear family. You know ... just on the upbringing.
G: Do you happen to see any other kinds of changes that you would like to comment on?
Josie: The only thing is that we're seeing more single parent families which is ... and more grandmothers raising children. And ... which has put a burden on the grandparents because they were not educated ... or the great-grandparents ... they were not educated ... and that's were people like Sergio make such a difference in our community right now. 'Cause they go out and they tutor ...
G: Uh-huh.
Josie: ... schoolchildren that are like in the low income Tejano Community Meetings - Lubbock, Texas
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schools ... like Bean Elementary ... Guadalupe ... other schools ... grade schools ... elementary schools here in Lubbock ... where the grandmothers and the great-grandmothers are raising the children ... and they're not able to help them with ... like with homework. And a lot of times the teachers do not take that into consideration. And will not work with the child ... will say ... Well, she's not turning in ... or he's not turning in homework. And it's his fault. And is treating that person the same way as the others. And I think that we need more people like ... like Sergio to go out into the schools and really take on ... really be strong about going in and talking to advisors and telling them ... We're here ... we want to know all these kids needs and we want to know ... you know ... more about them. And so ... I see that as a big change.
..: Big change.
G: Is tutoring a ... something that you feel is important part of your life?
Sergio: I think it is. I mean ... because I didn't have ... I didn't have that kind of ... oh, I felt I did because the majority of the teachers back home were Hispanic.
G: Uh-huh.
Sergio: That's one thing I don't see in the elementary schools here. You know it's growing but I don't think it's as large and I think that's what they need.Tejano Community Meetings - Lubbock, Texas
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G: Uh-huh.
Sergio: Mentors and you know ... somebody they can look up to. And what we try to do also ... like people that can't go and tutor we have like the Pen Pals ... we write them letters and you know once in awhile we go and met ... you get to go meet your pen pal. Maybe just go out from school and help with activities.
G: Sounds like a terrific program. Is this a program through your school? through Tech? or is is ...?
Sergio: No, it's just the organization ..........
G: We made a decision to arrange the exhibit by themes rather than chronologically ... that is not the traditional way of organizing a museum exhibit but it is within ... sort of the coming trends in museums ... it's one of the ... sort of new ideas. What do you feel about the themes that we have chosen ... of Colonial roots ... family ... work and community life? Do you think that these are ....
Steve: I liked it. I was ...
G: ... important themes?
Steve: I was planning it out in my head ... but what would ... you know I know on your diagram you had Colonial up here and then you had family and then you had community ... no ... work ... and then community down here ... and of course that's no order of priority ... but I was thinking ... what ... what Tejano Community Meetings - Lubbock, Texas
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comes first? You know ... which probably is not even part of the discussion ... but it all ... when you get ... I guess ... what I kept thinking is that it all kind of comes together ... because I know work draws people ... work draws the family. But ... sometimes work draws an individual where the family stays behind ... you see that a lot in the inmigrantes ... where the family stays in Mexico ... or stays in the South Valley ... but it's hard to survive without community. Communities don't come ... so it would seem and even if what is sending the person the work is the la familia ... which is ... which is with all it's necessities ... so I guess that it's just a toss-up ... there would be no order of prioritizing. (laughter) But I like the three ... I like the three themes. And in a community ... definitely I think church should be included. Because that's a very important part of ...
G: Church ... church is one of the threads that goes through all of the ... that was a very important religious component to the Colonial roots ... there's church ... religion's just forms all of life.
Josie: True.
G: Do you have any comments about those different subject themes that we have chosen?
Josie: I agree with Steve.
G: The Colonial roots is the first section and that's the Tejano Community Meetings - Lubbock, Texas
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section where we have done the most research on ... partly because of interests of our staff and just because that's the way it worked out. And so that's the first one that will be going in and that's the one that is most finished conceptually. We hope to have a good chunk of that in by February which means the research is basically done. As it goes on to further ... to the others which are further in the future there's a whole lot more that we are trying to learn now to go into them so ...
Steve: Could I just say something on work ... as you're seeing it through our discussions ... I'm sure everybody is saying the same thing ... that agriculture out here has been so important in the Hispanic community ... and probably still is because it's important ... as we're talking about the ... even to the Anglo population ... because agriculture drives this economy in West Texas. And it would seem like that as ... I don't know ..... in your ... however you set it up ... but if different parts of Texas when you talk about work could be represented by different industries that have really pulled people or really energized people. I don't know.
G: It's been very interesting that work has been what people in Lubbock have been focusing on and in the Lubbock area. When we were in El Paso ... in contrast ... people were talking about the importance of place ... that El Paso ... the Spirit of El Tejano Community Meetings - Lubbock, Texas
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Paso ... the Spirit of the Place was what was so important to them.
..: .......
G: That this was something that ... all of the people who were in my group in El Paso had been born in El Paso ... had left El Paso and lived in other places but had come back to there because they felt that they draw of the place was so important to them ... so it's obvious that people in different parts of Texas look upon different things as important. In San Antonio Colonial roots are very important. Because that's a big part of the history there. So we are finding out different things as we go to different places and I just think this is really, really very interesting that everyone in this area seems to be very certain that work is a very strong part of their life ... that their very ... that it's something that they feel very strongly that needs to be exhibited well for us. So do you have any ideas about how we can exhibit work? You did see that we have ... a computer station ... we have some storefronts ... we have a truck that migrants ... with migrant workers ... we are going to have in other places ... there will be ... in the Colonial roots section there will be some discussion of ranching ... because that was an important part of Colonial ....
Steve: I would say ranching out here's important ... but cotton Tejano Community Meetings - Lubbock, Texas
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...
Josie: Cotton.
Steve: You should have cotton ... cotton particularly ... if you haven't seen the mural ... have you see the mural over here in the park?
G: Yes, I saw the mural in the park.
Steve: And that has cotton ... cotton should be on there ... because that has played a ... and continues to play a big part.
G: Cotton is important in Texas.
Josie: Sante Fe ... the railroad for so many years was very, very important in this area. In fact that's what drew the ...
G: That's what you said ... that that's what the first Hispanics came from ... working along the railroad.
Josie: Working on the railroad. So that was ... the Santa Fe was ... of course it's not ... it's not there as much anymore but it used to be.
G: Well, you know we have all of time ... all of geography to deal with here ... so ... but you would ... agriculture ... particularly cotton are very important here. Any other things that you would like?
Steve: I wonder how Dallas ... and maybe I can ask you this ... Dallas is kind of an amorphous kind of thing ... when I think of Hispanics in Dallas I think of people just spread out and ... what would draw people ... I mean ... is it just another Tejano Community Meetings - Lubbock, Texas
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big city ... is there anything distinctive there that ...?
G: I personally haven't talked to the Hispanic community in Dallas so I don't know ...
Steve: I wonder ... I wonder ...
G: ... anything about it. We do hope to go up to Dallas ... Dallas and Houston are 2 places that we feel are necessary .......
Josie: I have a lot of family members move to Dallas.
Steve: Is that right? Opportunity?
Josie: A whole ... a whole big family ... of one of my aunts that's here ... but her whole family moved out there ... and my brother lives over there. More opportunities.
Steve: So maybe that could be the thing that would characterize it ... the dream ... or the ... you know ...
Josie: Better pay ... better pay.
Steve: That's true.
Josie: There's still people here earning minimum wages.
Steve: This is a big minimum wage city. I'm on a board of job ........ ... which is a training agency ... gets money to train people ... all ages ... and all others ... and all educational backgrounds ... and they say the frustrating thing is they train people and they only thing you can offer them is minimum wage jobs ... that's the problem. It's 4 and 5 ... it's 4.25 ... but $5 an hour jobs. It's hard to think of.Tejano Community Meetings - Lubbock, Texas
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G: Once again we're almost at the end of the tape so I'm going to stop it and turn it over and then we can continue.
END OF TAPE 2, SIDE 1, ABOUT .. MINUTES.
SIDE 2.
G: ... one of the things that are a feature of our exhibits is that we talk about people ... and some of the people we talk about are ordinary people and some of them are famous people. Are there any Tejano men, women, leaders or ordinary people that you would admire or feel are important to Tejano history that you think ought to be part of our exhibit? Are there any local heroes here that you think ... or national heroes? Any kind ... in any kind of a way.
Steve: Well, I think ... you know ... even though that he's in California I think he had a big impact here ... was Chavez ... Cesar Chavez ... because of agriculture and mobilizing people. I don't know ... some people might disagree but ........ Cavazos was kind of controversial ... but Cavazos was president of the university ... which was a big step out here in West Texas to have a Hispanic in that position ... and a lot of people disagree with him and stuff ... but a school's named after him ... he's not from here but I guess for some he was a role model ... I never got to know the man that well ... Laro Cavazos.
Josie: I knew him and I agree with you ... I think he was a Tejano Community Meetings - Lubbock, Texas
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great role model.
G: Are there any other people whose name you could suggest?
Josie: I think that sometimes we forget about ... like people that fought like in World War II ... we had a man that was highly decorated ... Purple Heart ... and all that.
G: And his name?
Josie: It's a ... Lorenzo Flores.
G: Okay. Anybody else? How about you, Sergio? Who do young people look up as heroes to?
Sergio: I wouldn't be able to say ... Culturally there ... I feel ... when I grew up there's not really somebody I looked up to.
G: Uh-huh.
Sergio: It was just really ... kids are interested in different things ... sports ... so they look up to people in sports.
G: Are there sports heroes that you think should ...? I don't know. (laughter)
Sergio: Like boxers and ...
G: Okay.
Josie: Uh-huh.
Steve: I think out here like Gabriel Rivera who was from San Antonio ... but he came to Tech ... he was All-American ... he was drafted by Pittsburg ... and he had an accident ... he's a parapelegic now ... he continues to do a lot of good stuff Tejano Community Meetings - Lubbock, Texas
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... but Gabriel Rivera is his name ... he was a line-backer for Tech.
G: Those are the kinds of names that we would like to have because those are people ... some of them are living people that we could talk to and show them on video ... some of them are people who are no longer alive but we can get pictures ... we can talk to people who knew them ... we can look up people who were in ... who are in the war are very well documented and that's part of our job to find out those histories ... but ...
Steve: Who were some of the folks back ... you know ... like for instances ... ........... ... Gilbert ... Gilbert Herrara ... his father was a policeman ...... ... did you know Gilbert Herrara's father? ... was he well ? and there weren't any other Hispanic policemen I don't think at that time ... were there? Was he kind of respected or not? in the community?
Tita: I think he was. My brother was a policeman before he was.
Steve: Oh, was he?
Tita: Pedro Garcia. But ....
Steve: Was he one of the first policemen on the ... ?
Tita: Uh-huh. I think he was one of the first ones ... my brother was ...
G: When was this?Tejano Community Meetings - Lubbock, Texas
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Josie: One of the first policemen here.
Steve: He probably would have been the first ..........
Josie: And he was very respected. He was one of the ones that provided work for a lot of the Hispanics here. He would take 'em to ... you know ... contract ... take 'em to North ... to the Northern states ... to Utah ... Idaho ... for ...
G: And would you say his name clearly for the tape?
Josie: Pedro Garcia.
G: Okay.
Josie: He provided a lot of work for a lot of people.
Steve: What about Jose Rameriz? Do you think he would have been ... do you think ... you know ... he was the first ... wasn't he the first school board member? ......
G: What time period are we talking about?
Josie: '70s?
Steve: 18 years ago ... yeah ... yeah ... the '70s. See once again the problem is around here everything is so Republican ... 9 to 1 ... I mean there's 9 Republicans for every Democrat ... that if a person ... a person almost had to become more conservative than you naturally are ... and even sometimes become a Republican to be in a position of authority ... like a school board member ... to speak for your people. And you know ... there's always the knock on those guys ... like Cavazos and Rameriz and all ... but I think he provided a good role Tejano Community Meetings - Lubbock, Texas
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model for people.
Josie: He was on the board .......... also.
Steve: Was he?
Tita: And schools were named after them.
Steve: That's true.
Tita: Cavazos was named after Cavazos and Rameriz ...
G: These are schools here in this community?
Steve: What about educators? as far as Hispanic educators?
G: Were there pioneering educators ... educators early on ... maybe aren't recognized?
Josie: Olga DeLeon.
G: Olga DeLeon. She was from what period?
Josie: She was... again from the '70s.
G: Okay.
Josie: She was an instructor at Lubbock High. She made a few changes.
Steve: ...............
Josie: No, I don't belive so. ..............
G: And how about in the medical field? You're in the medical field do you know of any doctors, nurses, mid-wives?
Steve: Flores.
Josie: Dr. Flores. And Dr. Norma Flores and ......
Steve: Her husband ........
Josie: Her husband ... Philip ... Philip Flores.Tejano Community Meetings - Lubbock, Texas
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G: Okay.
Steve: Were they Cubanos?
Josie: They were Cubans.
G: And these were ... what period of time are we talking about?
Josie: They were here ... '60s ...
G: Okay ... so that's ....
Steve: Did they come over ...
G: Pretty early on.
Steve: ... with the exodus of Cuban ........... ?
Josie: I'm not sure ... I'm not sure.
G: We don't have too much time left ... maybe 5 minutes ... and I was over at the park before we came to the church and we stopped to look at the mural. It seemed to me that the themes were religion and education and agriculture ... is that correct? Can you ... do you know more about that ... would you like to talk about the mural at all?
Steve: I wasn't involved. I know they had meetings here.
Josie: I was involved.
G: Were any of you involved in the discussions about the mural? I noticed that right in the center ... the center, center panel there's a big eagle ... is that the Mexican eagle or the American eagle or is it ...?
Tita: Mexican eagle.
G: It's the Mexican eagle. That was my kind of gut reaction Tejano Community Meetings - Lubbock, Texas
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... then I looked at it and thought ... I don't know. (laughter) So you don't ....
Tita: Is that the Virgen de Guadalupe out there?
G: Yeah, there is a Virgin of Guadalupe out there. Okay. 5 minutes ... that's what I've got.
Steve: I don't know church-wise ... were there any Hispanic ... Tejano ... or Hispanic priests or Sisters ... of course we knew that there were a lot of other priests and sisters very active along the side of the Tejano community but on ... you know ... stuff ... but I mean ... were there any Hispanic priests or ............ that were here? Mexicanos? ................. ?
Tita: No ... well, not here ... but they were at Lady of Grace.
G: Which is another parish.
Tita: Uh-huh. But here ......
Steve: ...........
G: Who would that have been?
Tita: ............... Gonzales.
Steve: ............ Antonio.
G: And when was Father Gonzales here?
Steve: Gonzales ... oh, he's still here ... he's 55 ...
G: He's still here ... okay.
Steve: ... so he's ordained 25 years ... which would have been in the '70s ... early '70s.Tejano Community Meetings - Lubbock, Texas
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Josie: And Father Ramirez?
Steve: Father Ramirez is a little bit older.
Josie: Father Ramirez ... was here before and then he left and then came back ...
Tita: He's a good priest.
G: So your ... so Hispanic priests have not been here more than about 25 years?
Steve: No, because the church was founded in 1920 ... this church ... ............. And I think that it was Irish priests ... Palentines ... they were Irish priests and ... that have been here and who've been very wonderful guys but I mean ... I don't think there were any Hispanic priests.
Josie: I don't think so either. It was mostly Irish Palentine priests.
G: And is there a Catholic school system in this area or not?
Tita: ..........
Steve: Two Catholic schools ... one in Slaton about 70 students and one at the Cathedral which has about 250 students ... grade schools.
G: And does that serve the Hispanic community ... all? Do those schools ...... ?
Steve: Yeah, about half and half ... half Hispanic ...
Tita: What about Christ The King? They have ....Tejano Community Meetings - Lubbock, Texas
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Steve: Yeah, that's the one.
Josie: That's the one.
Steve: About half of the students are Hispanic.
G: But they're both elementary schools? So there isn't a big tradition of parochial schools in this area? Is there a ... let's see ... you said that Catholics were a real minority here ... so there ... that would be ... I guess I'm answering my own question. Is there anything anybody else wants to say in the last 5 minutes? Sergio? About anything ... any thoughts? Something that you feel is important that I haven't gotten a chance to cover?
Sergio: I guess just what I brought up about the struggle ... I don't know how you could ... how you say you can put it into a museum ... but that's been one thing that effects all the aspects ... religion ... ....... began from Colonial .........
G: So the struggle between generations or the struggle for recognition ... what kind of struggle? ... the struggle to be ...?
Sergio: The just ... just for ... it's all going to be based on equality I guess.
G: Okay.
Sergio: Just economic-wise ... you know ... equal opportunity.
G: Josie? Last thoughts.
Josie: I guess just to identify the ... although we're a lot Tejano Community Meetings - Lubbock, Texas
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alike ... all our ancestors and everything ... there's still differences ... in the different areas that we live.
Tita: Weren't you going to say something awhile ago about sugar diabetes or something?
Josie: Oh, no, about the conference, no.
G: Mrs. Jaramillo ... do you want to say any final thoughts?
Tita: No, I don't think so.
Steve: I would somehow ... and it's all been said before ... but I like the idea of struggle ... that it has been a struggle ... continues to be ... for employment ... for even the right to hold public office ... for the right to share in the American dream if you want to put it that way ... but at the same time bringing to the plate and to the whole thing something very beautiful ... the Hispanic culture ... language ... and traditions ... history ... which is just a very enriching sort of thing. In other words ... not to look on Hispanics as a problem but to look on them as a way to enrich us ... enrich our society. Sometimes I don't think people are considered problems more than ... instead of bringing to ... they are taking from ... and that's not true.
G: Well, I really want to thank every one of you ... I have very much enjoyed the discussion that we've had today ... I hope you have enjoyed it. Thank you all for coming.
Tita: You've been very good.Tejano Community Meetings - Lubbock, Texas
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Steve: And something you think will be up and running when? next year sometime? in the Institute?
G: We hope by early February to have the first phase done ... which is ... first phase is a lot of fairly major construction because we're moving the walls back and moving them up higher ... so that's the major stuff. We hope to have that done by the end of February. And the reason we have to have it done by the end of February is from March through June is our heavy ... is our busy time of the year ... that's when all the school kids want to come ... so we hope to have it finished ... January is kind of a light month ... February is kind of a light month ... we have to have it finished before March when we start getting ... you know ... a thousand kids every day.
Steve: So everything will be finished by March?
G: That first segement will.
END OF TAPE 2, SIDE 2, ABOUT .. MINUTES.