THE INSTITUTE OF TEXAN CULTURES
Tejano Community Meetings
INTERVIEW WITH: Theresa Flores, Flora Lopez,
Mario Lopez, ......... Mendoza,
............... (Tape 1 of 2)
DATE: 16 October 1994
PLACE: Abernathy, Texas
INTERVIEWERS: David LaRo, Leo Benavidez
L: If you'll have your name ... start out with your name ... say ... Hi, I'm so and so. I'm David LaRo, the date is the 16th of October, this is Lubbock, Texas, and this is ...
B: Leo Benavidez, Lubbock, Texas, October 16th.
L: If you all will just add your name to it ... say your name and pass it around ... say a few words ... your name ... and something ... so when the ...... types it ... we'll know ... this voice is Theresa's ... and this voice is .......
F: Theresa Flores ... we're actually here in Abernathy ... so this is the ...... town that we're in. (laughter)
L: Flora Lopez ... from Abernathy.
ML: Also Mario Lopez ... aqui Abernathy tambien.
..: ..... (Spanish) .......
..: ...... (Spanish) ........
..: Si ......... Mendoza.
..: ............
..: ......... Mendoza.
..: .............
L: We'll leave this over here so it'll pick up your voices Tejano Community Meetings, Abernathy, Texas
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.......... like that. Okay.
B: I'd like to open the meeting ... or the session ... what you liked to be called ... Tejano or Chicano or Mexican-American? Senora Lopez?
F: Flores.
B: Flores ... I'm sorry. (laughter)
F: Uh ....
B: What would you like to be called?
F: ...... my preference would be Mexican-American ... you know.
B: Mexican-American. Okay.
F: Because ... one ... all of my ancestors ... as far as both sides of my ... my mother and father were from Mexico ...
B: Okay.
F: ... my grandmother ... my mother's mother ... she was an Aztec Indian ... so she was way back ... I mean ... inside of Mexico. So I have ... you know ... a rich blood as far as the Mexican ... you know ... type thing. And so I feel like ... I'm more comfortable ... you know ... with the Mexican-American. Now with my children it's a total different thing because they have more of a mix-in ... you know ... and here on ... say their mother ... Aztec-Mexican-American ... to where the father ... his grandparents ... great-grandparents ... were from Spain. So they ... some of them ... especially my oldest ... he Tejano Community Meetings, Abernathy, Texas
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considers himself more Hispanic because of the different cultures that he's in.
B: Senor Lopez?
ML: ....... (Spanish) .... Americano ... Mexican ... Chicano ...
L: Americano ........
B: Senor Lopez?
ML: ..... Mexican-American.
B: Mexican-American?
ML: Yeah.
B: ....... (Spanish)
..: .... Mexicana.
B: Mexicana?
..: ....... (Spanish) ......
M: Mexicana.
B: Mexicana.
B: ......... (Spanish) .......... I want to make this exhibit ... I'd like to have this ... what would you like to have ... what would you like to be there? ..... (Spanish) .....
..: ........ (Spanish) ....... learning or teaching ... you know ... it's ........ like my mom ... she's old ... my dad ..... (Spanish) ..... but what I enjoy a lot is listening to old people and telling me the things of the past. ...... (Spanish) .... But for them actually to be there and seeing Tejano Community Meetings, Abernathy, Texas
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it .......
B: ....... (Spanish) ........
..: ......... si ........ uh-huh. Even because ... well ... on my wife's side of the family they even tell the joke that they told back then ... you know ... (laughter) ... and a lot of them were like riddles ... you know ...
B: .......
L: Could I ask you all one favor, please? When we have these tapes transcribed the lady has to do a ... if they're in Spanish ... it takes her twice as long ... she has to go through about 2 steps ... so if you can say what you've got to say in English ... please do.
..: Okay.
L: If it can only be said in Spanish ... and some things can ... you know ... then do what you've got to do ... but it makes it easier for the lady doing this ... who is Spanish ... she prefers to work .... because it saves her having to go through the step ... from the tape ... to the Spanish ... from the Spanish ... to the English ... it's just easier ... and, boy, does it take time ........
..: Um .............
F: I just ... the same as Mario was talking about. You know ... because ... you know ... some of the ... I mean my grandparents now have passed away but they used to talk a lot Tejano Community Meetings, Abernathy, Texas
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about their ... you know ... the time when they were ... you know ... both of my grandfathers fought in the Revolution ... you know ... and they talked a lot about their stories.
B: Right.
F: You know ... and things that they did ... what they had to go through ... and stuff like that. And which now when my children come in and ask ... you know ... especially when Texas history that they are studying ... you know ... if I didn't know these ... you know ... even though they are folk stories to some people ... you know ... it's something that they can relate to as far as ... well, I have ancestors that actually fought in the Texas Revolution ... you know.
B: What Tejano man or woman would you like to see in the exhibit? Henry Gonzales or ........ here I go in Spanish again .......
L: Hero?
B: What Spanish model ... you know ... Henry Cisneros ... Henry Gonzales .........
L: Henry Cisneros is from our part of the world. He's our mayor who's in Washington ... but we don't know who's around here? What important people are good role models for our kids? Tell us some. If you ... Who are your heroes? Who'd you like to see ...........? We get some of the most unusual answers ... lot of folks have said ... my mother. which was really Tejano Community Meetings, Abernathy, Texas
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.......... hadn't thought about that ... how do you ..... ?
..: ...... don't know.
..: I don't know.
L: Think about it ... we'll come back to it ... you don't have to ........... Who would you like to see a role-model? What about Senor ..............?
..: ....... (Spanish) .............
..: Como .............
..: ....... (Spanish) ........
L: Cesar Chavez.
..: ...... (Spanish) .........
..: ......... (Spanish) .........
..: Here there's ... in Lubbock there's a group called COMA ... Chambers of Mexican-Americans. And they have been doing very well except for recently they had arguments between each other ... but they're changing ... they got new members ... and the new members are trying to change that ... but I would like to see something ....... that group in there ... but like I said they're having problems right now also ... so ... that would make ... What these people do ... they come around here and they help a lot of these smaller towns ...
..: Uh-huh.
..: ... and they are from Lubbock. But they come around and they help around the schools and it ... even if it's a right Tejano Community Meetings, Abernathy, Texas
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... they have to fight for it ... they will fight for it.
B: What percent of Mexican-Americans live in Lubbock?
..: Oh ... quite a bit.
L: We've heard 23 ... 25 ... something like that.
..: 25 percent?
L: That's what I've heard ... I don't know.
..: I think there's ...
..: There's more.
F: I'll say there's about ... um ...
..: About 30?
F: ... there's about ... there's very ... maybe ... there's a limit ... there's about 5 black families ... just alone here in this town ... and then ...
B: In Abernathy?
F: ... uh-huh ... here in Abernathy ... and then as far as Hispanics ... I'll say it's about 75 percent.
L: Just in Abernathy would you say? ..........
F: I'm just talking here ... you know ... just in Abernathy. But if you put ... you know ... like the Lubbock or the whole Lubbock County ... I'll ... I think it's about 40 ... 40 percent.
..: Yeah.
..: I would have to agree with that. Because everywhere I go there's ...
..: Uh-huh. ............Tejano Community Meetings, Abernathy, Texas
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..: ... Mexican-Americans ... or whatever they want to be called ... Chicanos ... whatever.
L: That's a funny term ... this word ... this language ... you saw from the video ... the whole thing is ... you pick 10 people ... you get 10 opinions. There's no way we can say this is the right word.
..: Uh-huh.
L: It'll never be right ... except for yourself ........
..: I noticed in the applications ... the job applications ... they have Mexican-American ... Latin ... Chicano ... you know ... and I never use Chicano or Hispanic ... I never use Chicano because ... (laughter) ... I'll never get a job with that. They hear the word Chicano ... it's like ... if you're Chicano ... you're like in a gang or ...
L: It carries a bad image.
..: Uh-huh.
L: Like one of the guys on the tape said ... To me that's an insult. In San Antonio it's not ... you know ... in California probably not either ... but it takes all kinds ......... Chicano ......
..: There is a lot of Spanish .......
F: It depends on the area that you're in as far as what you want to be called.
L: .................Tejano Community Meetings, Abernathy, Texas
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..: ......... (Spanish) ............
B: What would you like for the people in San Antonio to know about Lubbock ... about Abernathy? When we open the exhibit ... what would you like for the people to know about Abernathy or about Lubbock? ........ (Spanish) .......
..: .............
..: Yeah.
L: Agricultural.
..: I think so.
L: This is an agricultural area. But what else do you have? What else is important here? What's different here than say from Houston ... .................. Valley ? How are we different in Lubbock? How is the Hispanic community? How is the are different? .............
..: Like this morning when you ate breakfast and they offered enchilladas for breakfast ...
L: ...........
..: Oh, really?
..: Uh-huh. Is that custom or ...?
..: No.
..: No.
..: They say ...... enchilladas with ......
L: ........ one of those places again.
..: ............ enchilladas for breakfast? (laughter) Tejano Community Meetings, Abernathy, Texas
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........ I found it funny ... not funny ... but kind of ...
L: I can do that ... I can do that. ..........
..: But the culture from Lubbock's a lot different from El Paso. .......
F: I think so too.
..: Very different than .........
F.: Because ... I think ... a lot of the ... you know ... let's say ... especially ... you know ... San Antonio may be that direction ... they have more of the ... you know ... more of ... what am I trying to say? ... they're culture is almost the same as far as ... if you're up North ... I think ... we have more of the ... the so-called Anglo culture ... we carry that more than ... you know ... I'll say than the people from San Antonio.
..: Uh-huh.
..: ....... ones from the Valley are different culture from El Paso. ........... difference is tremendous. The people are ... they're different.
F: Yeah ... because from San Antonio ...
..: But the ......
F: ... from San Antonio down ... I think like the Spanish language is used a lot more than let's say ... up here ... you know. I'll say for example ... my own children ... they comprehend everything that I say to them in Spanish ... but Tejano Community Meetings, Abernathy, Texas
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they will not carry a conversation with me in Spanish what-so-ever. They understand everything but they will not communicate with me. And it ... I feel like if we were ... you know ... I don't know ... down there I think they put more emphasis as far as their language is concerned.
L: ........ I just realized I'm being very rude ... I'm not sure ... I'm trying to make it easier for the transcriber ... I don't know if Mrs. .......... understand English or not. If she doesn't ..........
..: .......... English?
L: Do you understand English?
..: ...... (Spanish) ..........
L: Then perhaps we should go ahead and do the whole thing in Spanish so that she will be included and not be left out? Is that okay with everybody? I just realized ... she doesn't understand ...........
..: ..........
L: Then we'll go ahead in Spanish and just let the lady work harder. (laughter)
..: ......... (Spanish) .........
..: In Easter every ... I mean ... since ........ we've been married what? ... 20 ... 20 years ... they've always had a reunion at Easter ... you know ... and that's one thing that they've always had at the reunion. And that's been ... and I know Tejano Community Meetings, Abernathy, Texas
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they've continued before I ever got married.
..: Uh-huh.
..: So they've always had a reunion at Easter.
B: What do you all think about the ........... ?
..: .... (Spanish) ........
B: Would you like to see mariachis in an exhibit like this?
..: ..... (Spanish) ........
L: How about music? Just some music ... hear the music? Instead of seeing the ......... music? ........
..: ...... (Spanish) .........
L: Yes ... when we lost our guide down there ... our music guide ... .................
..: Did you notice that ... like ... what is that park outside? ... what is it Sea World? ...
..: Uh-huh.
..: Fiesta.
..: Fiesta.
L: Oh, there's 2.
..: Okay. This ... it's been about a month ... 2 months ... ....... (Spanish) ......... and Disney Land ... you know ... they would bring popular groups ... just to be out there ... ....... (Spanish) ..........
B: How about ... in the questionaires we had something about Tejano Community Meetings, Abernathy, Texas
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curanderos ... would you like to have some of that in the exhibit? ..............
..: ........ (Spanish) ..........
L: Would you like to see it in the exhibit? that ........?
..: No. ............
F: As far as ... well ... my grandmother used to do that. You know ... she was ... one of those that did a lot ... but ... I mean ... she didn't ... how can I say this? ... she was more of the herbs and tea-type.
B: Okay.
F: She wasn't this other with this spiritual ...
..: ........ curandero ........ (Spanish) ........
(mixed conversation)
L: In the Valley it's ......... ... they think one is the other ... but ...
..: Okay.
L: ... we don't think that ... we think the curandero is the person who does the healing with the ... herbs.
..: Okay ... well that ...
..: .... (Spanish) ......
F: That one ... you know ... it's just the herbs ...
..: That's fine.
..: ... and ... you know ...
..: Teas ... .......Tejano Community Meetings, Abernathy, Texas
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F: ... yes ... because I still use a lot of those herbs ... you know ... for my own ... my own purposes ... you know. If ... if you don't believe in it ... then ... you know ...
L: So what.
F: ... I mean ... that's fine ... but ...
L: But you have aloe vera plants around your house?
F: Uh ... no ... I've got more of ... well ... I buy mainly mine ... you know ... in the store. But like the mint ... you know ... the mint I have always ...
..: Right.
..: You know I was brought up ....... ... you know ... when you have a real high fever ... I mean ... and just recently I had a ... my oldest boy real sick ... he didn't want to go to the doctor ... so ... you know ... I started to peel some potatoes ... and I put potatoes around ... ...... potatoes around him ... putting ....... around it ... and that did help ... I mean ...
..: I didn't hear about that one.
..: ... I mean I believe in that ... my mother did that to us and his fever went down ... and I believe that ... I mean ... you know ... and perhaps I prayed too ... but ... you know ...
..: ....... (Spanish) ......
B: This is curandero .... right?Tejano Community Meetings, Abernathy, Texas
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..: Uh-huh.
......... (Spanish) ..........
L: One thing we hope to learn from the exhibit and from this ........ ... we're learning a lot ... Leo and I have both learned a lot ....... ... about a month ago a lady came to see us and she's from a museum in East Texas and she's doing a museum called ... an exhibit called Tejanos ... of all things ...
..: Okay.
L: ... and I said ... You copied our word. But she let me read her script and she said ... I want to talk about curanderos and I said ... No, no ...... ... That doesn't mean the same thing to everybody ... why don't you call it herbal medicine? ... natural medicine? That you don't misinterpret ... when you say curandero some folks think you mean the witch doctors ....
..: Yeah ... uh-huh.
..: Yes.
L: ... so it depends on where you are ... what these words mean.
..: But it's played a big part in Tejano ...
L: Tejano culture ... yes.
..: ....... (Spanish) .....
L: It plays a part in a lot of cultures in a different form ... but it's been a very big basic part of Tejano cultures I'd Tejano Community Meetings, Abernathy, Texas
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say. Sally came to tell us that we aren't going to have a break.
..: I personally ...
L: Take 5 minutes and we'll get coffee.
..: I personally think that we should have something like that ... ............
(mixed conversation)
..: With the herbs and .....
..: With the herbs ....
F: ... and the oils ... and stuff. I think so too.
..: ......... border and we can't forget those ...
..: Uh-huh.
F: But I think that's part of our heritage.
..: Uh-huh.
..: ....... (Spanish) ......
..: Like you have children ...... your child the other day ... when he grows ... he's going to think about what momma used to do for him .... ....... (Spanish) .......
....... (Spanish) ........
B: ....... migrant ... what do you think about that? ...... migrant truck?
..: Uh-huh.
..: .........
B: How can we improve that?
..: ......... (Spanish) ........ Tejano Community Meetings, Abernathy, Texas
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(mixed conversation)
..: .......... ... you know ... that big black kettle?
..: Uh-huh.
..: .......... ... they had those ...
..: .........
F: Well, yeah ... my grandmother she had 3 ...
..: Uh-huh.
L: ..........
F: ... she had a big one where she did her laundry.
..: Uh-huh.
F: And you didn't put anything else in there except for laundry. And she had another one where she just kept coals in it ... you know ... or ... pieces of wood or whatever ...
B: Uh-huh.
F: ... and then she had one where she just used to cook ... you know ... a big ole pot of beans or whatever ... you know ... but she had 3 different things. And then 3 different skillets ... and each one had its own purpose for each ... big ole iron skillet.
L: Let me ask you ... .... at this point ... my grandmother used to do that ... but she made soap ... have you ever watched your grandmother make soap?
..: Uh-huh.
L: Which pot did she make it in? Did she have another pot Tejano Community Meetings, Abernathy, Texas
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for the soap? Was that the laundry pot?
F: That's the laundry pot.
..: ........
L: Okay. I didn't ... I just remember one pot my grandmother ... I don't remember 3.
..: Heavy ........
L: You think we should have one of those on the truck?
F: I think so because I think they used those a lot.
L: ...... migrants?
B: We're talking about the truck ... it's not only a place to talk about the migrant labor aspect of ... also you could put musicians ... entertainers up there ... and have kids around the floor ... you can talk ... or you can put a political speaker up there ... it can be a stage ... it'll have a lot of uses. We don't have much room and so we try to do things that can be used for more than one thing.
..: How about a screen porch? With maybe an old person telling old stories ...
..: Uh-huh ... stories ...
L: Stories ... yes.
..: ... of los ninos.
..: Well ... like me ... I was raised like that.
..: Uh-huh.
..: You know ... on the rancho ... you know ....... Tejano Community Meetings, Abernathy, Texas
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B: Would you like to see something like in a video ... like a quinceanero? ......... (Spanish) .......
(mixed conversation)
L: Rituals that bind a culture ...
..: Yes ... uh-huh.
L: ... rituals ... religious ... family .....
..: ........... like your family .......
..: ........
..: ........ Reunion?
..: .........
..: About 10 years from now?
..: It's a big family.
..: ...... brothers and sisters and their kids ... and we get together .....
..: ...... difficult ...
F; It's about the only big family here in Abernathy. It's the only big family.
L: Hey ... you're right.
..: ........... Rodriquez?
F: Oh, yeah.
..: The Rodriguez ... they have one more member than .......
..: ........
F: Well ... she would have had 20 ... 23 ...
..: 22.Tejano Community Meetings, Abernathy, Texas
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F: ... about 23. That's another family. But right now ... I think ... you know ... well ... those 2 ... and then the rest of them consist of us ... like 9 ... 8 ... 6 ... you know ... But I'll say in our ... in our generation ... you know ... same age group ... we're ... it was ... Abernathy consisted of a lot of large families. But family reunions I think that's one thing that we do have.
..: .........
....... (Spanish) .........
..: Recently we had a quinceanero.
..: Jose?
..: A boy.
..: A boy ... uh-huh.
L: I've never heard of a quinceanero.
...... (Spanish) ........
B: We celebrate a quinceanera for the girls ...
L: Uh-huh.
B: ... and a quinceanero for the boys.
L: I've never heard that before ... have you?
F: This was ...
(mixed conversation)
..: Yeah ... well he was originally ... they were from here ... from Abernathy ... ............ so they had it in .......... ... ...........Tejano Community Meetings, Abernathy, Texas
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B: Would you like to see something ... something like ... you know ... are you familiar with low-riders?
..: Uh-huh.
..: Yeah ... there's a club ...
B: Would you like to see something of them on a video? Would you feel people would think positive about that or negative ... of Tejanos? Would that make us look good ... or ......... ?
..: That would bring a lot of youth in that area ... to come and see it.
B: The video.
..: That's true.
..: For me ...
F: But then you would also see ... I mean ... it's okay for me ... but then I think you would get the negative of quote unquote ... gang ... yeah. With what's going on right now ... the gang. But I don't ... to me it would be something that the youth would be ...
..: Interested in.
F: ... interested in. You know ... because it's not ... these low-riders are not ... I've seen quite a few in San Antonio where they're not young kids ... these are ...
..: Different age.
..: Older.Tejano Community Meetings, Abernathy, Texas
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F: ... older men.
L: Even older.
F: Older men.
..: Uh-huh.
..: ............. get up.
L: I was at the Smithsonian museum about 2 weeks ago ... my wife and I on vacation ... and in one area of the floor in the Transportation there were 3 low-riders. Beautiful ... beautiful ... and there ......
..: ........ low-riders.
L: ..... charts ... they had charts of panels ... text ... that made it ... explained it very well.
..: But I have to agree with Mrs. Flores because some people will take the wrong ... the wrong ......
F: Now if you have ...
..: ..... wrong ... then we're doing more wrong than we're doing good .......
F: Uh-huh ... but if you would have ... if you would have some type of dis ... I mean ... an explanation ... you know ... the purpose of the ... you know ... the low-rider ...
..: A little history about it.
F: ... that part of the ... uh-huh ... the history ... and it's also a trend ... you know ... it's a fashion ... you know.
..: Uh-huh.Tejano Community Meetings, Abernathy, Texas
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F: You're making a fashion statement.
..: .............
..: We don't have that much days.
F: No ... you know ... with a video ...
B: ....... truck.
L: With a video you .........
....... (Spanish) ......... (laughter)
(mixed conversation)
END OF TAPE 1, SIDE 1, ABOUT .. MINUTES.
SIDE 2.
..: .... no ... no ...
..: We want to head back to .......
..: ...... (Spanish) ........
..: ......... when is this going to be all taken ....... ?
B: The first one in February ........
L: The first pieces this February.
..: ........
..: ........
L: And the next case about next fall. And then it'll take about 4 years to basically ... it takes money ... much money ... and we don't have the money so we're doing it a little bit ...
..: ...... (Spanish) .......
..: ....... (Spanish) ........ ... In Lubbock Mr. and Mrs. Tejano Community Meetings, Abernathy, Texas
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Lopez participated ............
B: So you can take your shot on this ... you know I was part of this.
L: Would you like to stop for a 5 minute break? ......
B: Sure.
..: I need to go ... I'm sorry.
END OF TAPE 1, SIDE 2, ABOUT .. MINUTES.