THE INSTITUTE OF TEXAN CULTURES
Tejano Community Meetings
INTERVIEW WITH: Theresa Flores, Flora Lopez,
Mario Lopez, Mrs. Caballero
(Tape 2 of 2)
DATE: 16 October 1994
PLACE: Abernathy, Texas
INTERVIEWERS: David LaRo, Leo Benavidez
L: ... Okay, this is the 2nd session. And it's Lubbock ... I'm sorry ... Abernathy, Texas, and it's still the 16th of October. Can we pass it around?
F: Theresa Flores and I'm here from in Abernathy.
FL: Flora Lopez from Abernathy.
ML: Mario Lopez from Abernathy.
B: Leo Benavidez.
L: And David LaRo.
B: What is ... where did you want to go? ..........
(mixed conversation)
..: I can't think of ...........
L: Pardon? Go where?
..: ........... somebody from Lubbock. I don't know.
L: Well ....
..: ................ is from ..........
B: ...........
..: Henry Cavazos I think is .........
..: I saw a picture of Cavazos ... why ... why?
..: Henry Cavazos was the president of Texas Tech.Tejano Community Meetings, Abernathy, Texas
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B: Okay.
L: Oh.
..: ... Tech University.
..: He was the Secretary of Education? ......
F: ........ Now he's the Secretary of Education.
..: Laro Cavazos.
F: Laro Cavazos.
B: Laro Cavazos. Okay.
F: Larry Cavazos .........
..: ........ (Spanish) ..........
F: That's Laro Cavazos.
..: Laro Cavazos.
F: Uh-huh. But for some reason it's Larry Cavazos for me ...
L: We have talked about him. We talked about him at Edinburg ... yes ...
F: Laro Cavazos is the one.
..: He's very ... he's known a lot in Lubbock.
..: In Lubbock he's very well known.
F: Yeah ... in Lubbock he's very well known.
L: And this is the .......
F: He did quite a bit of ... you know ... changes. And he ... I know when he was in there one year that I went to Tech for ... you know ... my education ... I was going to Tech there Tejano Community Meetings, Abernathy, Texas
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... he had scholarships ...
..: .......
F: ... for ... oh, what did he call it? ... for minorities ...
B: Okay.
F: ... which ... it paid off one semester ... you know ... and I could have continued going but with my finances and everything else I never went back ... you know ... but he ... he offered ... you know ... with the idea that you kept a certain grade point average and you would continue getting ... but he did a lot for the minorities.
B: He did?
F: Uh-huh.
L: Wasn't his brother a general? a high ranking officer? one of the highest in the Army? I think he was.
F: Brother?
..: ...........
L: You mean that's all for the 2nd session?
Sally: That's it.
L: Okay. Okay. Let's go for it.
B: Let's ........ that we the exhibit already there and you go and see it and you go and see it ... how would you like to come feeling like what? ...... come out exhibits ... I feel good being a Tejano ... you know ..........Tejano Community Meetings, Abernathy, Texas
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..: Knowing that you took that ... .......... in there and then ...
B: ......... Tejano
..: Yeah ... but to see your ancestors ...
B: Uh-huh.
..: ... you know ... there ... that you got the feeling of ........ saw someone that ... your ancestors ... you know ...
B: Uh-huh.
..: .......... and stuff.
ML: I'd like to come out of there feeling that ... Pa was right ... Ma was right ...
(mixed conversation)
L: Your momma was right?
..: Yeah.
ML: My mom was right and my dad was right.
B: What kind of feelings would you like coming out of that exhibit?
ML: I guess you have to see the Institute .........
..: .............
L: Let me ask ........
ML: I'm going to make sure I do go ...... (laughter)
L: Let me ask ... you just said something ...
..: ..........
L: You just said something ... yes ... anybody for Leo? Tejano Community Meetings, Abernathy, Texas
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........ You just said something ... mama was right ... papa was right ... talking about heroes ... I guess ... I told her earlier one of the sessions we came to ... a lady ........ my mother is my hero ... always been my hero.
ML: This lady was in El Paso?
L: Yes. How does that grab you?
..: ...........
L: What does that make you think?
..: .......
ML: Well ... I think that if you see your parents like that it's beautiful. Because that's where you ... that's where I've learned most of the things that I know. And I wished there was ... that I had picked up a lot more than what they ....... me. I don't know if ....... (Spanish) ........ I don't know how they do that ... but all I know is when ........ (Spanish) .......... (laughter) ... couldn't wait for it to get out. (laughter)
B: That would be good.
ML: ....... (Spanish) ....... like you say ... that place ... and you see something that your parents did there ...
..: ............
ML: ... you know ... like ... that was ....... mom.
L: There's one thing I want to ask ... at least get a couple of opinions before we leave ... what would you ... personally Tejano Community Meetings, Abernathy, Texas
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... start with you ... what would you like people to know about the Tejano culture ... of Mexicans ... Hispanics ... Tejano culture ... what we're talking about ... what would you like ... a point you would like to make about it to an audience?
F: As far as ... you know ... the culture ... I feel like ... as ... you know ... here in Texas or Tejana ... Tejano ... whatever ... I think we are a multi-cultural type of a race. That we have a lot to offer ... you know ... we have ... maybe my ways might be different from somebody else here ... but in a sense you're still talking the same thing ... but in a different aspect. So ...
L: In other words ... you'd like not to limit it ... you'd like to ........
F: No ... there ... I don't think there should be a limit. I don't think in any race ... you know ... there is a limit ... I think you still have space to expand.
L: Let me ask you though ... what one thing ... or what small group of things would you talk about ... now we only have about 5 more minutes ... would you like an exhibit like this to tell people about the Tejanos in general ... what would you like to get across ... a point?
FL: .......... until you learn more about .....
L: To learn.
FL: To learn more about your race. .........Tejano Community Meetings, Abernathy, Texas
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L: The culture ... the traditions ... and so on.
FL: Uh-huh. And to be ... you know ... ....... family ... I mean ... to be with your family and to learn more about your ancestors ... what they did ... because that's what ... I mean ... that's how we get along ... I mean ... more ... you know ... like ... for example what I did with my son ... you know ... I learned that from my mom ... my mom learned that from her mom ... and you know ... little things like that.
L: Mr. Lopez, have you got something that you'd add to that? What would you like to say? Something different from that perhaps?
ML: .......... I think that thing that I really want ... like my children of this new generation that's coming up is ... that there was always a lot of respect back in the Spanish ... to respect your mom and your dad. And that's lacking a lot right now ... here. Even in our own family. And to see ... you know ... like dad would look at me with his eyes and I knew I was in trouble then ...
..: (laughter)
ML: ... respecto ... and to see ... if they could go in there and they could see ... you know ... Hey, they ...... back then? ... I mean ... it wasn't like nowdays? No ... no ... it's not the same.
L: To show them a little bit of how it was then.Tejano Community Meetings, Abernathy, Texas
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FL: Yes. Because ... you know ... when we were raising up ... when we raised ........ ....... (Spanish) .......... ... I was going to get it if I didn't shake the hand of those two people ... you know ... ...... (Spanish) ......... by the time they left your house ...... and now ..... (Spanish) ........
ML: We're losing it. We're losing the respect for .....
FL: For each other.
L: It's not just Tejano ... it's society .......
ML: But the society itself would .......
..: ..........
F: That was the biggest .........
..: .............
F: And there was a certain look that the adult ... the adult figure ... you know ... that adult could be even 3 years older than you were ... you know ... or 4 years older ... you know ... something like that ... but that person had the ... the upper hand ... you know ... I mean ... he was the top ... he was the one that you had to wait ... you know ... and then of course your elders ... your uncles ... your aunts ... or whatever ... but especially your parents ... they had this certain look in the eye ... you knew right off you were in hot water. But they didn't discuss it ... this was another thing ... they didn't discuss it in front of people ... they waited for a certain time and then you were ...Tejano Community Meetings, Abernathy, Texas
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L: Then you got it.
F: ... you got it. Yeah. But ...
L: You said something.
F: No ... that's okay ... I'm finished. (laughter)
L: I've heard that recently and I've seen it and ......... and it's nice to be the oldest because you get to be the first. You said something earlier ... you said something about where you were raised ... where were you born? where were you raised? around here?
ML: Yeah ... but I'm from over there ... from Poth ... but I was raised .......... in the country ... out in the country.
L: How long did you leave the ranch?
ML: I was about 18 when I married my husband ... 18.
L: And you'd been on the ranch all that time?
ML: Uh-huh.
L: Where did you go to school?
ML: I went to a country school. But when I was in the 7th grade ... there in ........... ...
L: Through the 7th grade?
..: ..........
L: All grades there in one school? ..........
ML: Uh-huh. There was no more than about 15 kids.
L: Was it a segregated school? Or was it all mixtures?
ML: No ... it was all mixtures. Tejano Community Meetings, Abernathy, Texas
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L: ........
ML: But mostly ... there wasn't no ... uh ... you know ... Black people ... there was only Spanish and English people.
L: And you ... you grew up where? Did you grow up on a ranch or in a town?
F: No. I grew up in the country. All my life.
L: ..........
F: Well, I went to school in ... we lived out ... 14 miles out of ... from Wolfforth ... Friendship ... so we were ... we were in the middle ... so but we lived out in the country ... you know ... all my life ... up until ... well even when I got married my husband was still working out in the country ... you know ... farm labor ... so ... for the past 17 years we've lived in town ... but ...
L: But your growing up was pretty stable ... you were on the ranch and you didn't travel a lot ... you didn't move a lot ... your family was pretty stable.
F: No ... we were stable ... we weren't migrants.
..: .......
F: We were not migrants.
ML: ...........
L: Your family was?
ML: Yeah ... well ... since we were so many ... they stayed at home and they sent us to work.Tejano Community Meetings, Abernathy, Texas
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L: ........
ML: We would go to California and we'd go to San Diego all the way up ... and then once we got through we'd come back and then finish the school ... (laughter) ...
B: ....... (Spanish) .....
ML: ...........
L: The schooling was what? ... when you were not working ... your schooling was here in Texas?
ML: Yes.
L: During the off seasons.
ML: They took us a lot to pick cotton over here in Abilene ... Merkel.
L: Abilene.
ML: You know ... you used to go pick cotton and then once the cotton season was over they'd put us in school.
L: That was it. Leo, I'm going to leave you in trouble with Sally.
B: ........ (Spanish) ..............
ML: ........ (Spanish) ........... construction ... Caterpiller ...
B: Oh.
ML: They'd have ... was that Eagle ........ they'd have a contract with Caterpiller and we'd build .........
B: But the majority of the people are farmhands?Tejano Community Meetings, Abernathy, Texas
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FL: Yeah.
ML: Yeah.
B: That's how they make a living?
ML: Uh-huh.
B: Oh ... okay.
L: Before Sally comes and gets you in trouble ... I'm leaving.
B: Did you turn it off?
L: No. Would you ask Mrs. Caballero that last question about what would she like the exhibit to show ... and get some info.
B: ......... (Spanish) ...........
Mrs. Caballero: .......... (Spanish) ...........
B: Okay.
Mrs. Caballero: .........
............ (Spanish) .......
L: Okay ... I think that wraps it up. I'm sorry we didn't have more time to sit and talk ... we spent too much time outside listening to somebody else ......... (laughter) ..... thank you all for coming though. We appreciate it very much ... appreciate your help.
END OF TAPE 2, SIDE 2, ABOUT .. MINUTES.
SIDE 2 - BLANK.