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Tejano Community Advisory Committee meeting, Lubbock, Texas, Part 8, October 16, 1994
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Tejano Community Advisory Committee meeting, Lubbock, Texas, Part 8, October 16, 1994
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THE INSTITUTE OF TEXAN CULTURES
Tejano Community Meetings
INTERVIEW WITH: Armando Rodriguez, Antonio Romero,
Lillie Carrillo,
Sister Martha Molihan
(Tape 1 of 2)
DATE: 16 October 1994
PLACE: St. Joseph's Church, Lubbock, Texas
INTERVIEWERS: David LaRo
L: ...... Okay, my name is David LaRo, it is October 16th, 1994, and we're in Lubbock, Texas, and we're at St. Joseph's Church, and the Tejano Group interview is about to start. If you would please say your name in here ... just say Hi ... who you are ... .......... ....... San Antonio.
Armando: My name is Armando Rodriguez and I'm in Lubbock, Texas.
L: And we know who you are too ... but we're trying to get a few words.
Antonio: My name is Antonio Romero and I'm in Lubbock, Texas, in St. Joseph's Parish.
L: Thank you, Mr. Romero.
LC: My name is Lillie Carrillo and I'm in Lubbock, Texas, at St. Joseph's Parish.
MM: My name is Sister Martha Molihan and I'm in Lubbock, Texas, St. Joseph's Parish.
L: Thank you. Just getting the voices on here for a few words makes it easier for the lady who has to sit and listen to this and transcribed it later. She gives me a hard time if she can't hear.
Okay, we've talked about what we're doing here and why we're here. I guess the first thing I would like to ask is what ... if we re-do this exhibit and we come up with an exhibit called The Tejanos ... what would you like to see portrayed there? What one thing would you like to see there ... just personally? Okay ... if you like ... that leaves you thinking ... we'll move on and come back to you in a second. I don't want to forget it ......... What would you like to see portrayed in an exhibit like this?
..: Portrayed?
L: What would you like to tell people through an exhibit like this? About the Tejanos?
..: Listen to it. So that ... I guess it's an educational ....... ... as far as I ... we know already. Like I asked the question ... you know ... awhile ago ... about the Tejanos ... why they came up ...
L: Uh-huh.
..: ... but I'm a Texan ... I was born in Texas ... I was born in ............ ...
L: Well, if there was one thing that you could tell people who come to a museum ... if 300,000 people a year come to see a museum and 150,000 go look at this exhibit ... what would you like the exhibit say to these people? What would you like to tell people about the Tejanos? Is there something that you'd like ... a message you'd like to pass along to them?Tejano Community Meetings, Lubbock, Texas
David LaRo (Tape 1 of 2)
3
..: Like a ..........
LC: Like your religion or ......
..: ...........
..: ..............
L: Well, we can ... we're thinking ... that's what this list was really for ... to get you thinking of some of the things we're talking about ... if there's something there that appeals to you.
Armando: I think what I would like it to portray is that we as Tejanos ... you know ... we're diverse ... that we're ............ you know ... and we come from different backgrounds ... you know ... and we have ... we have Mexican blood in us ... we have American blood ... we have Indian blood ... different types of Indian blood ... and it's ... mainly that is what I'd like to portray. It's not ... Tejano's just not one certain group ... you know ... it's a diverse group ... it's a variety ... it's a mixture.
L: It is and that's what makes this job so difficult ... is trying to ...
Armando: And Tejano is really a translation of a Texan.
L: As we're using it ... a Spanish-Texan ... Mexican-Texan.
Armando: Because we ... because ... you know ... we also have blood coming from Spanish ... from Spain. It goes way back to our ancestors.Tejano Community Meetings, Lubbock, Texas
David LaRo (Tape 1 of 2)
4
L: I guess really to go back that far and come through ... what we're saying is ... if you're living in Texas today ... you've never been to Spain ... you didn't live in Spain ... you weren't born there ... yes, your background ... your roots are very different ... they go in many directions ... but you're part of a culture here today ... part of your life may stem from Spain ... Spanish ... may stem from Indian roots ... Aztec ... from Maya ... from .......... ...
..: ...........
L: ... I don't know where it comes from ... but your culture ... the way you live ... your traditions ... your religion ... your household ... your medical practices ... whether or not you believe in herbal medicine ... all the things that make up your life ... there's some similarity among Tejanos ... of course, there's some similarity with Germans and English and French, too. A lot of things ... good things ... the family ... keeping the family together ... the family tradition ... giving ... getting for birthdays ... I like to hear about that ... that doesn't happen a lot anymore. And it's being lost in a lot of different families and a lot of cultures.
..: Right.
L: But it's something that when you think about the Tejano culture ... that's something that comes to mind ... the strength of family ... the religious aspect ... the fact that normally Tejano Community Meetings, Lubbock, Texas
David LaRo (Tape 1 of 2)
5
religion plays a very strong role. Religion is not one of our 4 major areas because we decided that religion is a thread that runs through everything. It runs through your home ... your work ... your community ... it runs through all parts of the lives. So ... we understand that the backgrounds can come from many, many ways ... but I guess we're trying say ... we're trying to tell the world today ... this is the Tejano culture ... a lot of people ... Armando: That's what I'm trying to make it say in that we don't want to forget where we come from. That's what I would like to portray ... if you ask me.
L: The roots.
Armando: You know ... where we actually come from ... not ...........
L: Okay.
Armando: Right now ... you know ... a lot of young people ... you know ... you ask a young person ... a Spanish young person ... you ask him ... you know ... do you speak Spanish? ... a lot of them don't. And a lot of them don't speak Spanish ............. Why is it ... I know that English is the ......... language ... but that's one thing that we're forgetting ... our roots. I'd like to see that not forgotten.
L: You would like to see ... we have one section called Colonial Roots ... and that section is the first one we're going do. We plan to make those points and bring that in. And we'd Tejano Community Meetings, Lubbock, Texas
David LaRo (Tape 1 of 2)
6
like to start there too ... because that's where it all starts.
Armando: And ... you know ... going to take ... before we did not have ... like history classes ... you know ... there was no history classes ... no Tejano history ... now we have Dr. ....... Martinez who is here ... and he's a professor there and ... but before ... you know ... you would look at a history book ... you would find no history there.
L: I guess to go back to where we started ....... 2 or 3 years ago ... to look at Texas history book a few years ago you'd think there was no Texas before 1836 ... before the Alamo ... rah, rah, rah ... that's when Texas started. And the point we want to make is that that's not when Texas started ... Texas started 'way back before that. There were people here long before there was an Alamo or Sam Houston or Santa Ana or even .......... There were people here who worked ... who had hopes and faith and dreams and families and jobs and tried to make a better life for themselves and their families. So it goes back. And that's something we'd like to get across. Do you have a suggestion ... how you'd like to see it done? That would help a lot. Do you have any ideas about it or can you develop some as we're going? Hopefully ... because that's ... really those kinds of suggestions ... we ... we agree with you ... we'd like to do that. But how do you do it?Tejano Community Meetings, Lubbock, Texas
David LaRo (Tape 1 of 2)
7
Armando: Sort of like you said ... through educational programs ... videos ... lectures ... things like that.
L: Different programs ... different ones ... diverse ... Now that we've gone through some of this ... what one thing would you like to tell people in an exhibit about the Tejano culture?
LC: I love music and I think they definitely need to have the mariachis ...
L: Music.
LC: ... coming through and the girls that dance the different dances that came from Mexico. And on my book ... I mean on my page ... on the bakery ... I love Mexican sweetbread ... (laughter) ... everytime we go to Mexico that's the first place I go because I love the smell and the way they bake it in those ovens that are ... like ... out of dirt or ...
..: Yeah ... adobe.
LC: ... adobe ...
L: I'm trying to think of the name for that.
..: ..........
LC: Yeah I know ... I go to Holly's school all the time.
Antonio: Can we say something about ... like ........ changing some things about the educational system in the ........ in Texas?
L: Changing the educational system in Texas?Tejano Community Meetings, Lubbock, Texas
David LaRo (Tape 1 of 2)
8
Antonio: In Texas ... changing towards the Mexican people? May a word more of what they're learning ... you know ... our kids are learning ... nowadays ... you know ... I don't know if that's right or not but I mean ... I am aware that sometimes is a lack of interest on some people.
L: You're right. Sometimes there's a lack of interest on the schools ... sometimes there's a lack of interest on the kids ... to learn it ... the schools to teach it. One thing we try to do ... one thing that I think is the most important thing I think about our place is that we deal with kids. I know we deal with adults ... I try to deal with the kids and avoid the adults and let somebody else do that ... 'cause I like to work with kids. And I like to try to stimulate their interest ... get their little brains to work ... get them to wonder ... get them to ask questions ... the more they ask ............
..: ................
MM: To follow on what he's saying ... it would be real helpful somehow or other to help all the children that come there to appreciate the language ... to appreciate who they are ... and the ... I don't know just how you would do that ... but through the music and through other exhibits to even to use the language there ... bilingual ... explain ... explaining things ... and another thing that's important is their faith ... but you said Tejano Community Meetings, Lubbock, Texas
David LaRo (Tape 1 of 2)
9
that runs through everything ... but you know ...
L: We plan on showing it in the various areas. In fact we might have a ... we may have a home altar in the little replica of a house that we may show the ... we may have some of the old Missions in Socorro ... the earliest mission in Texas probably at Socorro ... we may have a little replica of that to show klds some artifacts that have been in the church.
MM: Then a lot of people came up here to get away from the persecution ...
L: Uh-huh.
MM: ... in Mexico and they brought their faith up here with them.
L: Probably the Catholic church in this area has been a big bulwark ... a big help to support folks who did come up fleeing the persecution. And looking for opportunities. Back to your questions though ... we ... we have almost no effect on the educational system in Texas ... but we do have some. The lady ... Phyllis McKenzie ... who first spoke to us about 3 months ago ... she got a textbook in the mail ... Texas History ... and a publisher is writing the new Texas history book ... and he said to her to look and review the Tejano section ... the section ......... Mexican history ... to look and see whether it was right or wrong. They're no longer just printing the old stories ... they're going out to the museums ... to the Tejano Community Meetings, Lubbock, Texas
David LaRo (Tape 1 of 2)
10
people who work in those fields and saying ... What is it? ... What about this? ... What do you think? And she said she would talk about the role of women ... Tejanas ... but that she sent 2 other professors in town ... 2 other guys who teach ... St. Mary's ... I think one at UTSA ... she said ... Why don't you talk with these guys about this? They said they did. When they finished reprinting the book they incorporated the changes that our folks had made. And we got a copy of the book ... they said this is your thank you for working ... here is your copy of the book. So books are being changed ... stories are being changed ... that's one of the reasons for this exhibit to change ... because the old Spanish-Mexican history is incomplete you might say ... it was told by one group of people who no longer live ... and no longer believed. I don't think we're trying to completely rewrite the world ... but there are parts of it that need to be corrected ... the parts that are wrong need to be fixed ... and that's one of our objectives, too. To tell the story a little bit more accurately of the Hispanics.
Armando: .... you asked about exhibits ..... ... I mentioned this to you when I was in San Antonio ... about the series that I did ... the TV station ... about how I did it ... you know ... I had 2 of the programs on the history of the Mexican-American people ... Tejanos ... here in West Texas ... because West Texas Tejano Community Meetings, Lubbock, Texas
David LaRo (Tape 1 of 2)
11
has been kind of left out from the rest of the state ... and so ... I did a couple of programs on that ... and then I did history on music ... Tejano music ... ............ mariachis ... you know ... the different types ... of different bands ... different groups ... ........... ... and I did one on Mexican cuisine ... you know ... comida ... .............. ... and like carnece ... how do you prepare the carnece ... you know ... ................. ... on pan dulce ... and also I did a program on education ... on 2 educators who teach here in Lubbock ... well one of them is the principal of Lubbock High and the other is ........ teaches at ......... High School ... you know ... and I kind of wanted to ... some of the young people to look at role models ... positive role models. And another program that I did was on Quinceaneras and Traditional Mexican Weddings ... how we ... Mexicanos celebrate ... you know ... weddings ... how and why ... you know ... like we have the lasso ... we have the ............. what it means ... ............... And there's a variety of other things ... I don't want to take up the whole time ... ............
L: I'm really interested in seeing it though ... if you could make me a copy ... can you do that? If I don't use it ... I'll certainly not use it commercially ...
Armando: I'll have the ... we can't use it commercially because .........Tejano Community Meetings, Lubbock, Texas
David LaRo (Tape 1 of 2)
12
L: Yes. Certainly don't want to do that ... but I would like to have it ....... people look at it. ............
Sally: You have about 5 more minutes before breaktime.
L: Okay. Thank you. I told these folks you'd come here and hit me and you came in and were real nice ... see how nice ........
Armando: And another thing that I did is was on Art ... on Tejano artists ...
L: Oh, yes.
Armando: .............
..: ..............
L: Do you have any muralist here?
Armando: Yeah, we have ...
..: ...........
Armando: No ... that was done by somebody from ...........
..: Uh-huh.
..: ........... was hanging there .......
Armando: We do have some people ... I know there a gentleman ... his name is ............ ... he teaches elementary art ... .............
L: We saw the mural you're talking about. It looked pretty nice. Was there some local controversy over that?
(mixed conversation)
Armando: ...... was done way back in '70s? ...........
LC: Uh ... after the tornado.Tejano Community Meetings, Lubbock, Texas
David LaRo (Tape 1 of 2)
13
..: Tornado.
Armando: And it was done and it was kind of ... it wasn't very well done ... you know ... and it was kind of ........ ... starting just drawing graffiti on it and everything ... and they contracted an artist from ... I think he was from ......... ...
..: From Colorado ... yeah.
Armando: ... Colorado.
Antonio: But he contributed to the Texas part.
..: Uh-huh.
Armando: And he painted ... you know ... the ... what it takes ... you know ... is people from ..........
L: I looked at that and I figured out some of the symbolism ... I see education there ... I see the book and the kids holding the book ... ........ education there ... I see the church there ... I see the 2 flags marching side by side ... .........
MM: There're 2 nice shrines in the church that's painted clay ... right? ... colored clay? ... I saw that man do it ... his name is on there. He did those with colored clay ... they're really nice.
L: Is this the same guy who did the ...... ?
..: No.
MM: No.
L: ............. ?Tejano Community Meetings, Lubbock, Texas
David LaRo (Tape 1 of 2)
14
Is there some that is unique ... let me start with you Sister ... she said 5 minutes ... we've got time to go around one more time ... do you think there's something unique about Tejanos in the Lubbock-Pan Handle area versus Tejanos in Houston or El Paso or ... do you think there's something special here that no one else has?
MM: Well ... one thing I say right off my head is ... this is the more rural area ... although we read in Lubbock everything is dominated by agriculture for the most part ... and that's what makes it different from the big city.
L: Would you agree with that?
LC: Well, my thoughts are that I really do see a difference ... because here in Lubbock I believe the Hispanics or the Mexicanos or whatever they want to be called ... there's even a ... each individual wants to be called something else ... you know ... .......... ... but I feel here in this area ... I think that our people ... the younger ones ... are more ... Anglo-ized ... than in Houston. In Houston they are more ... you know ... there's a lot that come in from Mexico ... and you hear them all speaking ... in the stores and things ... they're all speaking in Spanish. Here in Lubbock I don't ... I don't feel that it's like that.
L: Are they losing their Spanish or just chosing not to speak it?Tejano Community Meetings, Lubbock, Texas
David LaRo (Tape 1 of 2)
15
LC: I think they're losing it and ... I mean ... I can speak for myself see ... I didn't even know how to speak Spanish ... because my father ... he didn't want us to speak in Spanish. I don't know if he did us good ... or if he did ... he did us good in some ways because we were never discriminated ... and then he did us bad because he never taught us ...
L: You'd lost a part of ....
LC: Right. Uh-huh. But I know my grandkids ... most of them ... they do not know how to speak Spanish.
L: Um. How about you sir, do you think there's a different in the Tejano in Lubbock than there is say Houston or El Paso or San Antonio?
Antonio: I think it is. A lot of difference. Like she said about this ....
L: Language.
Antonio: ... language ... go out here in Lubbock ... we do have some groups that ... like me ... for instance me ... my family ... I got some grandsons ... you talk to me in Spanish ... you talk to me in Chicano ... I don't understand what you're saying ... and they're learning ... they're learning since they were about 3 years old ... and I keep coming up with that ... so they keep the tradition ........
L: I like that. I understand about 15 years ago there was a proposal in the state ... and they also hoped to make all Tejano Community Meetings, Lubbock, Texas
David LaRo (Tape 1 of 2)
16
the schools in Texas teach English and Spanish ... to make every ... even though there was German ... English ... Anglo ... Mexican ... what ... learn both languages ... and it failed ... I wish it hadn't ... I wish my kids had learned Spanish.
..: ...........
Armando: Well I know a couple of students ........ who are from San Antonio ............. young people in San Antonio ... Houston that ............
L: It's helping a lot.
LC: It's all over ... but I mean ... those that are getting ... those that are going on to college are the ones that don't know how to speak Spanish. And those that ... like I'm talking about the people that I see in Houston and they don't ... some of them probably they don't even go to school.
L: You're talking about some of the kids in the street ... the shopkeepers ... the storekeepers ... the business folks?
Let's go take a break. They're going to show that movie ... if we can ...... 7 minutes ....
Armando: Can I say one thing about ... when we come back ... that's unique about ... the thing that I see unique about the Hispanic people here is that most of us ... you know ... we have people ... like Mr. Romero ... ........ dad or grandmother ... they were all ... we all either came from South Texas ... from New Mexico ... or somewhere ... you know ... a lot of them Tejano Community Meetings, Lubbock, Texas
David LaRo (Tape 1 of 2)
17
migrated here to this area ... you know ... and most of the people in San Antonio ........ actually been there a lot longer ........ ... but most of us ... our ancestors ... you know ... actually came ........ to building railroads ... or come to work on ......... ... and things like that ... and that's mainly what I see that's unique us ... that we came from different ... you know ... different areas to this ... to the Lubbock area.
L: I would like to stop here ... when we come back I want to ask you about that. That's ...... take a break.
END OF TAPE 1, SIDE 1, ABOUT .. MINUTES.
SIDE 2 - BLANK.
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Description
| Title | Tejano Community Advisory Committee meeting, Lubbock, Texas, Part 8, October 16, 1994 |
| Interviewee |
Rodriquez, Armando Romero, Antonio Carillo, Lillie Molihan, Martha |
| Interviewer | LaRo, David |
| Description | Transcripts of community meetings conducted by the Institute of Texan Cultures as part of the Tejano Community Advisory Group. |
| Date-Original | 1994-10-16 |
| Subject |
Mexican Americans--Texas--Biography. Mexican Americans--Texas--Ethnic identity. |
| Collection | University of Texas at San Antonio Institute of Texan Cultures Curator of Exhibits Records |
| Local Subject |
Activism/Activists Education/Educators Mexican Americans Texas History |
| Publisher | University of Texas at San Antonio |
| Type | text |
| Format | |
| Digitization Specifications | 24 bit, 200 dpi |
| Source | Tejano Community Advisory Committee meeting, Lubbock, Texas, Part 8, October 16, 1994: University of Texas at San Antonio Institute of Texan Cultures Curator of Exhibits Records |
| Language | eng |
| Finding Aid | http://www.lib.utexas.edu/taro/utsa/00258/utsa-00258.html |
| Rights | http://lib.utsa.edu/SpecialCollections/services_copyright.html |
| Full Text | THE INSTITUTE OF TEXAN CULTURES Tejano Community Meetings INTERVIEW WITH: Armando Rodriguez, Antonio Romero, Lillie Carrillo, Sister Martha Molihan (Tape 1 of 2) DATE: 16 October 1994 PLACE: St. Joseph's Church, Lubbock, Texas INTERVIEWERS: David LaRo L: ...... Okay, my name is David LaRo, it is October 16th, 1994, and we're in Lubbock, Texas, and we're at St. Joseph's Church, and the Tejano Group interview is about to start. If you would please say your name in here ... just say Hi ... who you are ... .......... ....... San Antonio. Armando: My name is Armando Rodriguez and I'm in Lubbock, Texas. L: And we know who you are too ... but we're trying to get a few words. Antonio: My name is Antonio Romero and I'm in Lubbock, Texas, in St. Joseph's Parish. L: Thank you, Mr. Romero. LC: My name is Lillie Carrillo and I'm in Lubbock, Texas, at St. Joseph's Parish. MM: My name is Sister Martha Molihan and I'm in Lubbock, Texas, St. Joseph's Parish. L: Thank you. Just getting the voices on here for a few words makes it easier for the lady who has to sit and listen to this and transcribed it later. She gives me a hard time if she can't hear. Okay, we've talked about what we're doing here and why we're here. I guess the first thing I would like to ask is what ... if we re-do this exhibit and we come up with an exhibit called The Tejanos ... what would you like to see portrayed there? What one thing would you like to see there ... just personally? Okay ... if you like ... that leaves you thinking ... we'll move on and come back to you in a second. I don't want to forget it ......... What would you like to see portrayed in an exhibit like this? ..: Portrayed? L: What would you like to tell people through an exhibit like this? About the Tejanos? ..: Listen to it. So that ... I guess it's an educational ....... ... as far as I ... we know already. Like I asked the question ... you know ... awhile ago ... about the Tejanos ... why they came up ... L: Uh-huh. ..: ... but I'm a Texan ... I was born in Texas ... I was born in ............ ... L: Well, if there was one thing that you could tell people who come to a museum ... if 300,000 people a year come to see a museum and 150,000 go look at this exhibit ... what would you like the exhibit say to these people? What would you like to tell people about the Tejanos? Is there something that you'd like ... a message you'd like to pass along to them?Tejano Community Meetings, Lubbock, Texas David LaRo (Tape 1 of 2) 3 ..: Like a .......... LC: Like your religion or ...... ..: ........... ..: .............. L: Well, we can ... we're thinking ... that's what this list was really for ... to get you thinking of some of the things we're talking about ... if there's something there that appeals to you. Armando: I think what I would like it to portray is that we as Tejanos ... you know ... we're diverse ... that we're ............ you know ... and we come from different backgrounds ... you know ... and we have ... we have Mexican blood in us ... we have American blood ... we have Indian blood ... different types of Indian blood ... and it's ... mainly that is what I'd like to portray. It's not ... Tejano's just not one certain group ... you know ... it's a diverse group ... it's a variety ... it's a mixture. L: It is and that's what makes this job so difficult ... is trying to ... Armando: And Tejano is really a translation of a Texan. L: As we're using it ... a Spanish-Texan ... Mexican-Texan. Armando: Because we ... because ... you know ... we also have blood coming from Spanish ... from Spain. It goes way back to our ancestors.Tejano Community Meetings, Lubbock, Texas David LaRo (Tape 1 of 2) 4 L: I guess really to go back that far and come through ... what we're saying is ... if you're living in Texas today ... you've never been to Spain ... you didn't live in Spain ... you weren't born there ... yes, your background ... your roots are very different ... they go in many directions ... but you're part of a culture here today ... part of your life may stem from Spain ... Spanish ... may stem from Indian roots ... Aztec ... from Maya ... from .......... ... ..: ........... L: ... I don't know where it comes from ... but your culture ... the way you live ... your traditions ... your religion ... your household ... your medical practices ... whether or not you believe in herbal medicine ... all the things that make up your life ... there's some similarity among Tejanos ... of course, there's some similarity with Germans and English and French, too. A lot of things ... good things ... the family ... keeping the family together ... the family tradition ... giving ... getting for birthdays ... I like to hear about that ... that doesn't happen a lot anymore. And it's being lost in a lot of different families and a lot of cultures. ..: Right. L: But it's something that when you think about the Tejano culture ... that's something that comes to mind ... the strength of family ... the religious aspect ... the fact that normally Tejano Community Meetings, Lubbock, Texas David LaRo (Tape 1 of 2) 5 religion plays a very strong role. Religion is not one of our 4 major areas because we decided that religion is a thread that runs through everything. It runs through your home ... your work ... your community ... it runs through all parts of the lives. So ... we understand that the backgrounds can come from many, many ways ... but I guess we're trying say ... we're trying to tell the world today ... this is the Tejano culture ... a lot of people ... Armando: That's what I'm trying to make it say in that we don't want to forget where we come from. That's what I would like to portray ... if you ask me. L: The roots. Armando: You know ... where we actually come from ... not ........... L: Okay. Armando: Right now ... you know ... a lot of young people ... you know ... you ask a young person ... a Spanish young person ... you ask him ... you know ... do you speak Spanish? ... a lot of them don't. And a lot of them don't speak Spanish ............. Why is it ... I know that English is the ......... language ... but that's one thing that we're forgetting ... our roots. I'd like to see that not forgotten. L: You would like to see ... we have one section called Colonial Roots ... and that section is the first one we're going do. We plan to make those points and bring that in. And we'd Tejano Community Meetings, Lubbock, Texas David LaRo (Tape 1 of 2) 6 like to start there too ... because that's where it all starts. Armando: And ... you know ... going to take ... before we did not have ... like history classes ... you know ... there was no history classes ... no Tejano history ... now we have Dr. ....... Martinez who is here ... and he's a professor there and ... but before ... you know ... you would look at a history book ... you would find no history there. L: I guess to go back to where we started ....... 2 or 3 years ago ... to look at Texas history book a few years ago you'd think there was no Texas before 1836 ... before the Alamo ... rah, rah, rah ... that's when Texas started. And the point we want to make is that that's not when Texas started ... Texas started 'way back before that. There were people here long before there was an Alamo or Sam Houston or Santa Ana or even .......... There were people here who worked ... who had hopes and faith and dreams and families and jobs and tried to make a better life for themselves and their families. So it goes back. And that's something we'd like to get across. Do you have a suggestion ... how you'd like to see it done? That would help a lot. Do you have any ideas about it or can you develop some as we're going? Hopefully ... because that's ... really those kinds of suggestions ... we ... we agree with you ... we'd like to do that. But how do you do it?Tejano Community Meetings, Lubbock, Texas David LaRo (Tape 1 of 2) 7 Armando: Sort of like you said ... through educational programs ... videos ... lectures ... things like that. L: Different programs ... different ones ... diverse ... Now that we've gone through some of this ... what one thing would you like to tell people in an exhibit about the Tejano culture? LC: I love music and I think they definitely need to have the mariachis ... L: Music. LC: ... coming through and the girls that dance the different dances that came from Mexico. And on my book ... I mean on my page ... on the bakery ... I love Mexican sweetbread ... (laughter) ... everytime we go to Mexico that's the first place I go because I love the smell and the way they bake it in those ovens that are ... like ... out of dirt or ... ..: Yeah ... adobe. LC: ... adobe ... L: I'm trying to think of the name for that. ..: .......... LC: Yeah I know ... I go to Holly's school all the time. Antonio: Can we say something about ... like ........ changing some things about the educational system in the ........ in Texas? L: Changing the educational system in Texas?Tejano Community Meetings, Lubbock, Texas David LaRo (Tape 1 of 2) 8 Antonio: In Texas ... changing towards the Mexican people? May a word more of what they're learning ... you know ... our kids are learning ... nowadays ... you know ... I don't know if that's right or not but I mean ... I am aware that sometimes is a lack of interest on some people. L: You're right. Sometimes there's a lack of interest on the schools ... sometimes there's a lack of interest on the kids ... to learn it ... the schools to teach it. One thing we try to do ... one thing that I think is the most important thing I think about our place is that we deal with kids. I know we deal with adults ... I try to deal with the kids and avoid the adults and let somebody else do that ... 'cause I like to work with kids. And I like to try to stimulate their interest ... get their little brains to work ... get them to wonder ... get them to ask questions ... the more they ask ............ ..: ................ MM: To follow on what he's saying ... it would be real helpful somehow or other to help all the children that come there to appreciate the language ... to appreciate who they are ... and the ... I don't know just how you would do that ... but through the music and through other exhibits to even to use the language there ... bilingual ... explain ... explaining things ... and another thing that's important is their faith ... but you said Tejano Community Meetings, Lubbock, Texas David LaRo (Tape 1 of 2) 9 that runs through everything ... but you know ... L: We plan on showing it in the various areas. In fact we might have a ... we may have a home altar in the little replica of a house that we may show the ... we may have some of the old Missions in Socorro ... the earliest mission in Texas probably at Socorro ... we may have a little replica of that to show klds some artifacts that have been in the church. MM: Then a lot of people came up here to get away from the persecution ... L: Uh-huh. MM: ... in Mexico and they brought their faith up here with them. L: Probably the Catholic church in this area has been a big bulwark ... a big help to support folks who did come up fleeing the persecution. And looking for opportunities. Back to your questions though ... we ... we have almost no effect on the educational system in Texas ... but we do have some. The lady ... Phyllis McKenzie ... who first spoke to us about 3 months ago ... she got a textbook in the mail ... Texas History ... and a publisher is writing the new Texas history book ... and he said to her to look and review the Tejano section ... the section ......... Mexican history ... to look and see whether it was right or wrong. They're no longer just printing the old stories ... they're going out to the museums ... to the Tejano Community Meetings, Lubbock, Texas David LaRo (Tape 1 of 2) 10 people who work in those fields and saying ... What is it? ... What about this? ... What do you think? And she said she would talk about the role of women ... Tejanas ... but that she sent 2 other professors in town ... 2 other guys who teach ... St. Mary's ... I think one at UTSA ... she said ... Why don't you talk with these guys about this? They said they did. When they finished reprinting the book they incorporated the changes that our folks had made. And we got a copy of the book ... they said this is your thank you for working ... here is your copy of the book. So books are being changed ... stories are being changed ... that's one of the reasons for this exhibit to change ... because the old Spanish-Mexican history is incomplete you might say ... it was told by one group of people who no longer live ... and no longer believed. I don't think we're trying to completely rewrite the world ... but there are parts of it that need to be corrected ... the parts that are wrong need to be fixed ... and that's one of our objectives, too. To tell the story a little bit more accurately of the Hispanics. Armando: .... you asked about exhibits ..... ... I mentioned this to you when I was in San Antonio ... about the series that I did ... the TV station ... about how I did it ... you know ... I had 2 of the programs on the history of the Mexican-American people ... Tejanos ... here in West Texas ... because West Texas Tejano Community Meetings, Lubbock, Texas David LaRo (Tape 1 of 2) 11 has been kind of left out from the rest of the state ... and so ... I did a couple of programs on that ... and then I did history on music ... Tejano music ... ............ mariachis ... you know ... the different types ... of different bands ... different groups ... ........... ... and I did one on Mexican cuisine ... you know ... comida ... .............. ... and like carnece ... how do you prepare the carnece ... you know ... ................. ... on pan dulce ... and also I did a program on education ... on 2 educators who teach here in Lubbock ... well one of them is the principal of Lubbock High and the other is ........ teaches at ......... High School ... you know ... and I kind of wanted to ... some of the young people to look at role models ... positive role models. And another program that I did was on Quinceaneras and Traditional Mexican Weddings ... how we ... Mexicanos celebrate ... you know ... weddings ... how and why ... you know ... like we have the lasso ... we have the ............. what it means ... ............... And there's a variety of other things ... I don't want to take up the whole time ... ............ L: I'm really interested in seeing it though ... if you could make me a copy ... can you do that? If I don't use it ... I'll certainly not use it commercially ... Armando: I'll have the ... we can't use it commercially because .........Tejano Community Meetings, Lubbock, Texas David LaRo (Tape 1 of 2) 12 L: Yes. Certainly don't want to do that ... but I would like to have it ....... people look at it. ............ Sally: You have about 5 more minutes before breaktime. L: Okay. Thank you. I told these folks you'd come here and hit me and you came in and were real nice ... see how nice ........ Armando: And another thing that I did is was on Art ... on Tejano artists ... L: Oh, yes. Armando: ............. ..: .............. L: Do you have any muralist here? Armando: Yeah, we have ... ..: ........... Armando: No ... that was done by somebody from ........... ..: Uh-huh. ..: ........... was hanging there ....... Armando: We do have some people ... I know there a gentleman ... his name is ............ ... he teaches elementary art ... ............. L: We saw the mural you're talking about. It looked pretty nice. Was there some local controversy over that? (mixed conversation) Armando: ...... was done way back in '70s? ........... LC: Uh ... after the tornado.Tejano Community Meetings, Lubbock, Texas David LaRo (Tape 1 of 2) 13 ..: Tornado. Armando: And it was done and it was kind of ... it wasn't very well done ... you know ... and it was kind of ........ ... starting just drawing graffiti on it and everything ... and they contracted an artist from ... I think he was from ......... ... ..: From Colorado ... yeah. Armando: ... Colorado. Antonio: But he contributed to the Texas part. ..: Uh-huh. Armando: And he painted ... you know ... the ... what it takes ... you know ... is people from .......... L: I looked at that and I figured out some of the symbolism ... I see education there ... I see the book and the kids holding the book ... ........ education there ... I see the church there ... I see the 2 flags marching side by side ... ......... MM: There're 2 nice shrines in the church that's painted clay ... right? ... colored clay? ... I saw that man do it ... his name is on there. He did those with colored clay ... they're really nice. L: Is this the same guy who did the ...... ? ..: No. MM: No. L: ............. ?Tejano Community Meetings, Lubbock, Texas David LaRo (Tape 1 of 2) 14 Is there some that is unique ... let me start with you Sister ... she said 5 minutes ... we've got time to go around one more time ... do you think there's something unique about Tejanos in the Lubbock-Pan Handle area versus Tejanos in Houston or El Paso or ... do you think there's something special here that no one else has? MM: Well ... one thing I say right off my head is ... this is the more rural area ... although we read in Lubbock everything is dominated by agriculture for the most part ... and that's what makes it different from the big city. L: Would you agree with that? LC: Well, my thoughts are that I really do see a difference ... because here in Lubbock I believe the Hispanics or the Mexicanos or whatever they want to be called ... there's even a ... each individual wants to be called something else ... you know ... .......... ... but I feel here in this area ... I think that our people ... the younger ones ... are more ... Anglo-ized ... than in Houston. In Houston they are more ... you know ... there's a lot that come in from Mexico ... and you hear them all speaking ... in the stores and things ... they're all speaking in Spanish. Here in Lubbock I don't ... I don't feel that it's like that. L: Are they losing their Spanish or just chosing not to speak it?Tejano Community Meetings, Lubbock, Texas David LaRo (Tape 1 of 2) 15 LC: I think they're losing it and ... I mean ... I can speak for myself see ... I didn't even know how to speak Spanish ... because my father ... he didn't want us to speak in Spanish. I don't know if he did us good ... or if he did ... he did us good in some ways because we were never discriminated ... and then he did us bad because he never taught us ... L: You'd lost a part of .... LC: Right. Uh-huh. But I know my grandkids ... most of them ... they do not know how to speak Spanish. L: Um. How about you sir, do you think there's a different in the Tejano in Lubbock than there is say Houston or El Paso or San Antonio? Antonio: I think it is. A lot of difference. Like she said about this .... L: Language. Antonio: ... language ... go out here in Lubbock ... we do have some groups that ... like me ... for instance me ... my family ... I got some grandsons ... you talk to me in Spanish ... you talk to me in Chicano ... I don't understand what you're saying ... and they're learning ... they're learning since they were about 3 years old ... and I keep coming up with that ... so they keep the tradition ........ L: I like that. I understand about 15 years ago there was a proposal in the state ... and they also hoped to make all Tejano Community Meetings, Lubbock, Texas David LaRo (Tape 1 of 2) 16 the schools in Texas teach English and Spanish ... to make every ... even though there was German ... English ... Anglo ... Mexican ... what ... learn both languages ... and it failed ... I wish it hadn't ... I wish my kids had learned Spanish. ..: ........... Armando: Well I know a couple of students ........ who are from San Antonio ............. young people in San Antonio ... Houston that ............ L: It's helping a lot. LC: It's all over ... but I mean ... those that are getting ... those that are going on to college are the ones that don't know how to speak Spanish. And those that ... like I'm talking about the people that I see in Houston and they don't ... some of them probably they don't even go to school. L: You're talking about some of the kids in the street ... the shopkeepers ... the storekeepers ... the business folks? Let's go take a break. They're going to show that movie ... if we can ...... 7 minutes .... Armando: Can I say one thing about ... when we come back ... that's unique about ... the thing that I see unique about the Hispanic people here is that most of us ... you know ... we have people ... like Mr. Romero ... ........ dad or grandmother ... they were all ... we all either came from South Texas ... from New Mexico ... or somewhere ... you know ... a lot of them Tejano Community Meetings, Lubbock, Texas David LaRo (Tape 1 of 2) 17 migrated here to this area ... you know ... and most of the people in San Antonio ........ actually been there a lot longer ........ ... but most of us ... our ancestors ... you know ... actually came ........ to building railroads ... or come to work on ......... ... and things like that ... and that's mainly what I see that's unique us ... that we came from different ... you know ... different areas to this ... to the Lubbock area. L: I would like to stop here ... when we come back I want to ask you about that. That's ...... take a break. END OF TAPE 1, SIDE 1, ABOUT .. MINUTES. SIDE 2 - BLANK. |
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