THE INSTITUTE OF TEXAN CULTURES
Tejano Community Meeting
INTERVIEW WITH: Pauline Cortez, Alma Lopez,
Jesse Maris, Eve Medina (Tape 1 of 1)
DATE: 16 October 1994
PLACE: Abernathy, Texas
INTERVIEWERS: Tom Shelton and Lauri Gudzikowski
LG: ... October 16th, 1994, and we're at a Tejano Community Meeting in Abernathy, Texas, Tom Shelton and Lauri Gudzikowski are the interviewers at this session.
Start by saying your name ...
..: Pauline Cortez.
G: Thank you. And would you say your name.
..: Alma Lopez.
G: And would you say your name.
..: My name is Jesse Maris.
G: Thank you. Okay. Tom, do you want to start out with the first question?
S: Did you feel ... did you react strongly to any of the exhibit ideas on the personal preferences survey that you just completed? Was there anything that sort of ...
G: Pauline had a really good comment on ...
S: ... jumped out at you?
G: ... that ... would you talk about the low-rider?
C: Low-riders?
G: I mean ... you said ...
C: Oh ... I said I've never seen one. I mean ... the only ones I've seen are on television. So I wouldn't know how ... are they ...
S: It's not a common thing here in the Panhandle?
M: We do have quite a bit of low-riders but it just ...
C: But not what I've seen in California.
M: Yeah. Well, Lubbock's got quite a few ... around the area they have quite a few low-riders. But it doesn't always just content to the Spanish people.
G: Okay.
M: We have a lot of Anglos and Africans ... Blacks ... that are involved in this too. So it's not just one culture or persons. It's just several bodies of people are doing it.
G: So would you feel that that is something that should be in the exhibit about Tejano people or not?
C: It's something that's just now beginning don't you think that? Because it hasn't really been around this area that much.
M: Oh listen, we had it when I was growing up in the '60s.
C: In the '60s?
M: We weren't just low-riders ... we were just crazy kids. (laughter)
C: We weren't considered low-riders at that time ... we had 'em ... but they weren't considered low-riders.
M: Yeah.
C: Like now ... they have their cars and that really show their dressing and then their cars and all that ... so now we're seeing them as low-riders.
G: Uh-huh.Tejano Community Meeting - Abernathy
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C: At that time we didn't see them ...
M: Now they dress ... but they're dressing more like ... like the low-riders ... the majority of them dressing like the pachuco style.
..: ..........
M: Yeah.
..: Yeah.
M: Tight pants at the bottom and ... you know ... dress coats and little hats and stuff. To me I don't see what they're trying to prove. With something like that. You know ... I don't how you would put it.
G: You know ... what your opinions is what we are looking for ... so that's an opinion.
S: Particular age group ......
M: Yes.
S: ... involved with this.
M: I feel like a lot of them don't want to take over anything they just want to be equal represented ... if they can do this they can represent what they feel .......
G: Uh-huh.
M: People ... you know ... you started this.
(laughter)
S: Were there any other exhibit ideas on this form here that we didn't have on this list that you think might be good to Tejano Community Meeting - Abernathy
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have?
M: I was just thinking about this touch and push button for interviews ... well, those things ... they are really good ... but aren't they kind of expensive? to maintain and keep?
G: They are extremely expensive.
S: Yeah.
M: Where a person can spend a lot more money on something else rather than on one certain item.
S: Uh-huh.
G: High tech is very expensive and ...
M: Yes.
G: ... and they are very expensive to maintain.
M: .... large murals or ...... paintings. A lot of the Hispanic people you'll see that a lot of ... will paint a picture before they express .......... To me if you paint something on the wall ... my personal feeling ... that means a lot more to the Hispanic people. Because they'll see what they have ... been there ... or have not seen before.
S: What about these items up here at the top? Like the contemporary home interior or the schoolroom ... how did you feel about that?
M: The schoolrooms ... in the years back?
S: Uh-huh.
M: Honestly? We didn't have a school. There was a white Tejano Community Meeting - Abernathy
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school. Mexican-Americans did not have a school.
..: We did not have a school.
M: We were just there as guests. Because 99 percent of the kids our age group ... when you got to be 16 ... you were out of school anyway ... because you were going to go to work. So we didn't ... I didn't feel like we had a school.
S: You were in the classroom though?
M: Yeah.
C: We were in the classroom ... yes ... but we got out of ... out to go to work. Which is one of the big parts of ......... Mexican-Americans ... you know ... that was the big deal about us ... the picking cotton ... getting out in the fields and the factories ... making a living for ourselves. And that's one of the big things of the His ... Mexican-American people ... the work ... we did a lot of work. And that was us. Now, in our times what we are doing ... I'm going to say that ... you know ... in a way some of us are making a mistake in that because when we were married ... Louis and I ... we started a family and the first thing we told ourselves is ... see we have family who have children and their children seem to be failing ... 'cause they did not have the English speaking in the family. So we told ourselves ... Okay, we're going to teach our kids English ... you know ... how to speak it. So our kids did not speak English language ... because we wanted them to Tejano Community Meeting - Abernathy
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get ahead in school ... to be something ... and that's how they've gotten to be something ... but now they're lacking their language. Not all of them ... but most of our kids. And they are in ... now they are getting involved more because we see the necessity ... but it's very hard for us. But you know ... in our times school was not that important.
M: Well ... school ....
C: We ...... in the fields.
M: When we were young if you remember right ... when I was going to school in New Deal ... our problem was if you were caught speaking Spanish you were punished. So you know our best thing to do was to ignore it ... just forget about it ... ........ ... get in there with our English and go on. So ...
..: Which wasn't very good. (laughter)
M: Yeah ... you know ...
..: Yeah ... because we didn't have ... at home our parents didn't speak English ... we spoke Spanish. So when we went to school we just sat there most of the time because we didn't know how to speak English until ... you know ...
M: In New Deal ... remember like in New Deal when we went to school our first year ... our first two years you spent at what they called pre-school.
G: Uh-huh.
M: They didn't care how old you were or nothing.Tejano Community Meeting - Abernathy
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..: To learn language.
M: If you knew English fine ... if you didn't fine. When they ... on us ... our group that ... some of the kids that I know ... so far right now ... they never taught us our phonics and stuff like that. All of our spelling and everything else was done by memory. You know ... but they chose the kids that could do this. And if you come from a family that's just a working family you didn't get a lot of privileges.
S: Was this in Robstown?
M: No ... it's here.
..: Here.
G: So you all are ... you all were raised in the Lubbock area?
..: Yes.
G: And you all went to school in the Lubbock area?
M: No ... she ...
C: I migrated a lot. My parents ... my momma is from Mexico and my dad is from South ... the Valley area ... so my daddy did a lot of shearing and he also did the dairy work and stuff like that. And we also did ... while my dad did that we did the field work.
G: So you travelled all around ...
C: Yeah.
G: ... all around the United States?
C: Not all over ... Colorado ... here ... Texas ... the Valley.Tejano Community Meeting - Abernathy
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G: And did all three of you grow up with Spanish as your first language.
M: Yes.
..: Uh-huh.
..: Uh-huh.
S: And of all those different schools you attended you didn't find any difference in any of those different regions?
C: The most I ever remember is just sitting there and sometimes understanding and not understanding ... that's it.
M: Well ... I think like that ... I remember we started to school in South Texas in Alamo, Texas, we started school there ... next thing you know we were in Vale, Oregon, and school ... or we were in Boise, Idaho or Blackfoot, Idaho ... because my parents travelled ... they ...
G: So you also migrated.
M: ... followed the work.
..: Migrated.
M: We'd go to Michigan ...
G: And did you also do that, Alma?
L: Yes ... we did.
M: I've think the majority of the people that live in this area were people that travelled.
..: That's right ... migrants ... workers.
M: And evidently after they saw it was too late for their Tejano Community Meeting - Abernathy
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kids ... that's when they quit and they tried to give the rest of the kids an education.
..: And tried to get them somewhere ... to be something.
M: Uh-huh.
G: And how old were you when you settled in the Lubbock area?
M: Oh, gosh ......
..: I was six.
..: I was 19. Well ... probably before 19 ... about 15 ... 14.
G: Teen-ager ... a young child. So your school experience is entirely in Lubbock.
..: ....... when I started here.
G: If you started here when you were 6.
..: Well ... I went to New Deal.
M: Yeah.
..: And then from ...... and then I went to Abernathy ... but New Deal and Abernathy are only 5 miles apart. (laughter)
G: And are they culturally similar?
..: Uh-huh ... yes.
M: I think you'll ... around this area you'll see the people ... the majority of the people if you walk in their homes ... basically have about the same thing. Everybody is trying to change as they go along. But basically everybody had the same little start. You know ... we could all ... we could go into Tejano Community Meeting - Abernathy
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everybody's house at lunch we could all probably eat the same thing.
S: Well ... what about this ...
(child comes in)
..: Hey ... this is my momma.
G: Oh, very pleased to meet you ... would you come sit down and join us? We have a little bit more to go on this conversation and since you're just joining us would you mind saying your name into the tape recorder?
..: .........
G: A little bit louder.
..: .............
G: Thank you. And you?
..: Eva Medina.
G: Thank you. Okay ...
S: I was going to ask ... you were talking about the home ... what did you think about the idea of a home interior? A contemporary one or maybe an older one? Like when you were young ... what do you think about that?
M: When we were young ... when we travelled up here ... during the winter ... if you didn't get into the right homes ... the sand and the dirt was going to be inside your house. Because we got put in just any little house. As long as you could work ... the family could work ... you were put in any little house Tejano Community Meeting - Abernathy
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... they didn't care if you had cracks in it or nothing ... they were down here for working purposes only. Because I remember my mother would say that they would have to put some rags in the cracks of the homes when we were all growing up when they were up here working. I think you might ...
..: That's right. Migrated.
M: Yeah. No ... we didn't ... our homes here have changed in the last 20 years. This is the homes the majority of the kids are building and coming home with now. Because the majority of the people that farm ... those parents stayed farming ... they stayed working on the farms ... at certain homes ... and when they retired then they had to go find a place. But the ones that have a home ......... anything else it's just ... so I don't know exactly how you would say to fix a house to show with something like that ... I really wouldn't ...
G: You said, Jesse, that all our houses are the same ... what is the same?
M: Poor.
G: Of all your houses? Poor.
..: Dirt floors ... not getting anything nice ...
G: Dirt floors ... that's ... we want descriptions ...
..: You know ... plain walls. You know ... one of the remarks that my mom gave me here this time that she came to my house ... now that we are preparing for our quinceanera ... she said Tejano Community Meeting - Abernathy
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... see my house has always been plain because that's the way we've always lived ... plain, simple people ... and one of the remarks she gave me this time when she was here ... she said ... Wow, Alma, you finally have something hanging on your wall. (laughter) But ... because we're used to plain, simple.
G: Uh-huh. ....... that's what we want to know.
..: ........ wood floors.
G: Yes. That's exactly what we want to know ... are those details of your life that ...
M: ...... details that you were trying to ignore ... yet ...
..: My husband loves the carpeting and I keep telling him ... take the carpet up I'm used to the wood floor. (laughter) So ... you know ...
S: What about religious pictures or statues ... was that something that was taken around from home to home?
M: I think everybody had their little corner of the house.
..: Well ... I was not a Catholic up until the time I married a Catholic ... but my parents ... my mother was Pentecost and my daddy just said he was Catholic ... but never took us to a Catholic church until I married into ... so I didn't know nothing about pictures ...
G: Saints ... statues ...
..: ... saints and statues. Like I'd go to my friends that were Catholic and they'd have their little altar on the corner Tejano Community Meeting - Abernathy
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of the house ... and I thought that was neat ... 'cause they candles ... we didn't have them.
S: Did your family have an altar?
M: Yes. But my parents started off as Baptists and they just moved around.
S: Oh.
M: ..... live on the farm ... people would come and invite them to go to church and they would go to the churches.
S: So they would go to different churches?
..: Uh-huh.
M: Yes. We were all baptized Catholic ... but you know ... just kind of moved around ... you know.
S: If you moved into a Baptist community then you would go to a Baptist church?
M: Not really. Just whoever just started to invite you ... who come and talk to you all and stuff like that.
..: If there was a minister ...
M: Yeah.
..: ... around you'd go ... you go visit.
M: You know ... we used to go to Vacation Bible School with everybody ... you know ... and everybody'd make a deal of it.
S: Well ... did you have religious articles in the house?
..: We have ... I started out as a Catholic with my momma and my dad ... and then they moved on to Protestant which ... Tejano Community Meeting - Abernathy
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Pentecostal ... and now I'm a Catholic. And I do have religious articles in my home ... but I have to say also that I saw the religious articles different after I wasn't a Catholic ... but now at an older age I'm understanding their meaning and why we have them ... so now I have religious articles.
S: But not an altar ... a home altar.
..: Yes. A small one.
S: You have small home altar?
..: Yes. In my bedroom I keep a small altar.
S: On a dresser?
..: No ... it's ... my husband cut out like a bookshelf type and we have a long square where we keep our little things ... religious articles.
S: It hangs on the wall then?
..: Uh-huh. It's right into the wall.
G: And how about you? Would ... in your memory is that a tradition? from your memory?
M: ...........
..: ...... (Spanish) ........
..: She cannot explain herself ... in English. She just ...
G: If you could explain yourself in Spanish ... could you .... ?
..: Mama ....... (Spanish) .......
..: ...... (Spanish) ..........Tejano Community Meeting - Abernathy
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S: Well ... I'll move on to the next question ... what differences would we find in Tejano culture in different parts of the state? Have you travelled around? Do you notice a difference ... say ... ?
M: ........
G: A difference here in Lubbock than what people might told us in San Antonio or El Paso. Is there a difference? In El Paso there's 80 percent of the population is Mexican-American ... in Lubbock 23 percent ... so I would think there might be a difference.
..: The language ...
M: The language.
..: ... I see the language speaking ... when you go from here to North Mexico you see a difference in the language. When you go from here to Colorado you see a difference ... from here to San Antonio you see a difference ... you can even go as far as Sundown ...
G: Uh-huh.
..: ... I went to Sundown yesterday and I saw a difference in their language. A lot of ...
G: For example?
..: ... Spanish-speaking ... a lot.
G: Okay.
..: And here we don't ... you said ... but not as much.Tejano Community Meeting - Abernathy
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G: Uh-huh.
..: So it varies as you travel ... the language speaking.
M: I feel like when we went to El Paso the Spanish is greater there than anywhere else. San Antonio when we were racing up there that was basically the same thing. From San Antonio down further South you'll ... I feel like they use more Spanish ... and a lot of it is more correctly Spanish than us. Around here in the Lubbock area it's more Tex-Mex ... a few words in English and a bunch in Spanish.
G: Uh-huh.
M: You know ... when we go to that part of the world ... they really know that we're not from there.
S: What about the holidays that are celebrated? Do you celebrate Diez y Seis here or Cinco de Mayo or ...?
M: We do but not as a great part of it as they do in South Texas.
..: It's a separate community that celebrates it.
M: Yeah.
..: We celebrate it because my husband and my son and my daughter are involved in that ... with mariachi ... and with ........ ... but it's kind of like a box over here.
G: Uh-huh.
S: In Lubbock? Is that ...
..: Yeah.Tejano Community Meeting - Abernathy
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S: What do you do?
..: Uh ... they have all the music ... they have the food ... different bands playing ... and the dancing ... the folkloric dancing ... what else do we have? ... what else did I miss?
..: The ...........
G: Pauline, do you want to add something?
..: The Reina.
..: Yeah, the .............
..: .................. Coronacion de la Reina ...
S: Where is that held?
..: Uh ...
..: Downtown.
..: Downtown in Lubbock.
G: When you have these celebrations ... you said it's like a small box ... so is it only the Mexican-American community that celebrates them? Or do other people join in? Or ....
..: Other people join in ... other people join in.
M: The Anglos are moving in finally ... a little bit at a time.
G: Uh-huh.
M: But the majority of the people that go to those deals is Hispanics.
G: Uh-huh.
S: Are there parades? Tejano Community Meeting - Abernathy
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M: Yes, we have ...
..: Yes.
M: ... we have small parades. The city gives you ......... permission to do stuff ... you know ... if you ask for stuff. But there is a lot of activity going on there.
S: But that's for both holidays ...
M: Yes.
S: ... Diez y Seis and Cinco de Mayo?
M: Yeah.
..: And ....... ... we noticed that this year it never really gets that crowded and this year ... I don't know if you guys attended ... but it was really crowded this year and it .......... ... crowded ... it's just getting ... more and more people are getting involved.
S: Uh-huh. What about the Dia de los Muertos? Is that ... do you have a cemetery tradition here?
..: Yeah, we do ... and the father goes.
S: Goes to the cemetery?
..: Uh-huh ... goes to the cemetery and pray ... but ... you know ... with everybody working ... I think only people that go are the people that are home ...
..: Housewives.
..: ... housewives ... that are ... that go ... not ... we don't go as a group or as a church member ... the whole church Tejano Community Meeting - Abernathy
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... 'cause it's ... last year it ..... ... it was on a Monday ... right? ... and everybody goes to work ... so the only people that went were the housewives.
S: And what does the priest do out there?
..: He prays and they pray the rosary and they go from ... what ...
S: From grave to grave?
..: Uh-huh.
..: And some ... like the families used to it ... that we spent practically the whole day out in the cemetery ... in our old times this ... we just did a small little type of service or something.
S: So you used to spend the whole day in the cemetery out here years ago?
..: No ... not here ...
..: The tradition of my ... the people in Mexico ...
..: Our ancestors ... you know.
..: ... ancestors and stuff.
S: Uh-huh. Okay. What did ...
G: Did you want to add something to that?
..: No ... I don't practice that.
G: Okay.
..: I used to when I was young with my parents.
G: Uh-huh.Tejano Community Meeting - Abernathy
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..: But then I got married and I got a different environment and then I learned different things and I don't want to get involved with the ... all the old ...
G: Okay.
S: What do we need to know about the history of Tejanos in the Panhandle? What is unique here? Or different here that maybe we should include in the exhibit? What's different here from any other places? Of course you've mentioned some of the things.
G: You've mentioned language already. And ... is there a long history of Tejanos here in the Panhandle? Most of you say you've come here over the last ...
M: The thing about the Tejanos here ...
G: ... 40 or 50 years.
M: ... they've come here but only for harvest.
G: Uh-huh.
M: As soon as the harvest was over ... the onion harvest ... the cotton harvest ... the grain harvest ... once it's over all the Hispanic people went back. There's very few that ever stayed around here ... everybody left and went back to South Texas or wherever they were from. So it's kind of hard to say ... you know ...
S: There was less a sense of community ...
M: Yeah.Tejano Community Meeting - Abernathy
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S: ... until recently?
M: Yeah. It's just changed since the kids have got more education ... more involved ... that things have been changing ... the politics ... involvment of the people.
G: Are there still Hispanics that come here for harvest?
M: Yes.
..: Yes.
G: So there's still a migrant community as well as a ... ?
M: Yes.
..: One of the things that I feel is very sad is that we're losing our culture. Is that how you say it? We're losing our traditions and all that. So now what we're trying to do is bring it all back ... our language and all this ... we're trying to bring it all back ... by the mariachis ... you know ... having the mariachis ... having the folklore ... we didn't have this too much around here ... now it's coming back and we're trying to teach our children to speak it ... you know ... our own language ... we didn't have that ... we do have it but not like we should.
G: Uh-huh.
..: Or like it should be. Our roots are not here.
M: Yeah ... but it's hard to have your roots here when everybody marries somebody different.
G: What do you mean?Tejano Community Meeting - Abernathy
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M: Like my wife ... they're from New Mexico and Colorado ... they're Indian.
..: Uh-huh.
M: So they're not actually Spanish ... they're more Indian than anything else. The question is here ... what are we?
(laughter)
G: The question is here ... what are you? ... what are you? (laughter)
S: ......... video ... what would you have said?
G: What would you have said?
M: I'm an American. I'm a Mexican-American. I earned it.
G: And what would you have said?
..: The same ... Mexican-American.
..: I am a Mexican-American also. With parents from Mexico and the Valley you know ... from South. I am a Mexican-American.
G: If you had to give a label to your ethnicity ... what would you say? you are?
..: Mexican-American.
G: Mexican-American.
M: Okay ... just like that question you asked us ... now what are you all?
G: What am I? That's a complicated question for everyone.
M: That's right ...
G: It's complicated just as it is for you.Tejano Community Meeting - Abernathy
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M: That's the same question as for us.
G: Yeah.
M: It is very complicated.
..: I would identify myself Mexican-American.
G: Okay.
M: But you know that's what I'm trying to say ... what are ... if you people don't know what you are ... how can you all expect us to know what we are?
G: It's not that anyone expects anyone to know ... it's a question.
M: No ... but I'm saying ... we'd like to know ourselves. (laughter)
G: And ... like you said ... it's a question that requires a lot of thought.
M: It's the checking of ... you know ... the history back on our own families.
..: ...........
M: Because if you tell us ... if you're light you're Spaniard ... if you're dark-complected you're Mexican-Amer ... Mexican ... so it's real hard. Because on my families side my dad and my mother and my dad's brothers and all them ... they grow their hair and they grow a beard and their beards are red. So ....
..: Yeah.
..: ...... (Spanish) ...... Tejano Community Meeting - Abernathy
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G: Okay ... we're almost at the end of this side of the tape ... as a matter of fact ... I think so we're so close to the end of this side of the tape ... why don't we stop it right here ... turn the tape over and if anybody wants to take this as an opportunity to get a cup of coffee and ... let's do so ... okay?
END OF SIDE 1. ABOUT .. MINUTES.
SIDE 2.
..: ...... well ... you know ... the Mexican-Americans in the old times ... those are the ones that went through the hard times ... you know. I think I had it easy ... you know ...
M: We all did.
..: ... my children have it even easier. Because we are now struggling ... we are struggling to make it better for ourselves. But in the times of my mom ... my dad ... it was real hard for them ... even through their struggles it was very hard for them to make it better for themselves. They had to work extra, extra hard and yet they were not getting anywhere.
G: Um.
..: You know. In our times we had to work ... I'm not saying my dad forced the money off of us or anything ... but in our times we could think to ourselves and say ... Hey, my mom and dad need the help. We handed our money to our parents. In our times now ... our children they work and work and what we're Tejano Community Meeting - Abernathy
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doing is building their little nests ...
G: Uh-huh.
..: ... okay ... we separate their little nests ... this goes to this ... this goes to that ... and this goes to your college money ... and stuff like that. They're trying to get ahead. In our times ... well ... not really my time because my mom and dad would have given anything for me to get ahead ... but in other times people just couldn't get ahead. They worked very, very hard. And it still wasn't doing anything for them. And now we are trying to change that. Everything for us is changing because we are doing it. We are trying very hard to do it.
..: .......... (Spanish) ............
M: .......... (Spanish) .......
..: ........... (Spanish) ...........
M: ............. (Spanish) ............. ... understand all that?
..: ............ (Spanish) ............
M: ........... (Spanish) .............
..: In her time ... it was hard ... real hard ... to ... you know ... work ... to get ahead ... so now ... you know ... they think you have it easy.
G: In some ways ...
..: We do.Tejano Community Meeting - Abernathy
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G: We do.
M: We do have it very easy.
..: We sure do.
M: Extremely easy. Like I was just explaining to her. If they remember years back ... summertime came around it was vacation for the Anglos ... you know ... if they were farm owners or ... it was a vacation for them. For us it was going hoeing weeds or going to the onions ............ That was our job for the summer. Okay. Christmas we had 2 weeks off. Everybody was saying ... We're going skiing. ... We're going doing this. ... we were going harvest cotton. We were pitching cotton on trailers or we were doing something. It was always a job. And it's not that we didn't want to go on vacations ... we didn't have ...
..: We didn't have no money.
M: ... no ...........
(laughter and mixed conversation)
..: And at that time ... at that time there was no ... age thing ... you know ... like nowadays you can't see any teen-agers or school-going kids going to the fields anymore ... they have to be in school now. In our times we didn't have that. I remember my last year I pulled cotton ... my mom made me a ... one of those sacks that you hook on your shoulder ... and it was a smaller one than anybody else ... I had to pull that plus Tejano Community Meeting - Abernathy
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my little baby brother on top of it ... you know ... picking cotton ... and my mom would make little piles of cotton for us to go behind 'em picking them up. But that was the last year ... I believe ... was when Kennedy died ... ...........
G: How old were you?
..: ......... (Spanish) ....... I was small ... I don't remember my age.
S: That was 1963.
..: '63 ... I was born in '52.
G: Okay ... so you were 9.
(mixed conversation)
..: And see we never ... I think we got to catch the very end of the hard labor because we never really did hard labor. If I'd stayed out in the fields ... we used to stay out in the fields 12 hours ... 10 hours ... nowadays they can't stay 8 hours out there. It's too much for them. And we hardly ever do it anymore ... you know.
M: I had a man tell me one time ... he says ... Now that your daddy worked you so hard when you were a kid ... he said ... If you had anything to say to him ... what would you say to him? I said ... Thank you.
G: So do you ... do you encourage your children to work hard?
M: Yes.
..: Yes, we do. Tejano Community Meeting - Abernathy
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..: I have all boys.
M: Okay.
..: ........ (laughter)
..: I encourage it ... I encourage it to let 'em realize where things come from ... and to appreciate.
G: So you would see work as being the ... the most important thing that we should talk about in our exhibit ...
M: Yes.
G: ... from your experience.
..: The hard labor ...
M: Uh-huh. The busier you keep a person ... the less time they have to get into trouble. That's my theory.
S: How would you communicate that in an exhibit?
G: You mean in an exhibit visually?
S: For people who have never ... people who have never seen this sort of thing or heard about it?
G: People who can't imagine fields that big of cotton ...
S: People who grow up in cities.
..: Yeah ... I know ... 'cause my ... we have a ... some relatives who live in San Antonio and he came to work with us one year ... one summer ... and he wrote back ... he wrote to his mother telling him that we worked like animals ... (laughter) ... because he wasn't used to working ... you know. We'd get up at 5 o'clock ... be out in the fields at 6 ... and work all Tejano Community Meeting - Abernathy
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day ... at lunch time my daddy would ... you know ... an hour to eat ... and then work til 5. Well ... he'd never gone .......... ... he had never gone hoeing ... and I mean hoeing is not hard ... and to him it was like ... God ... he was dying ... so he didn't stay too long ...
M: I don't really know how you would express that.
G: How can you express that? Could you give us some ... some thought ... of how you could express that? I mean ... you did see that in the exhibit plans there's a truck for migrant workers and ...
M: I always remember when you talk about migrant workers ... I always remember that stupid truck with a tarp on top like that ... with the people in the back of it ... going to work ... to a job.
G: Uh-huh.
..: A truck piled up with a lot of people.
M: I remember my sister and them would say ... I feel like my hands were made ....... so I can pick up the ice-box every time we moved.
G: (laughter)
S: Did you ever ride in one of those trucks?
M: Yes.
..: Yes.
M: Yes.Tejano Community Meeting - Abernathy
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G: Did you all ride in one of those trucks?
..: Yes.
G: You've all ... that's ...........
..: My mom and my dad were the ... were the people ... my dad would go out farming and my mom would do all the picking up of the ...
..: ... the people.
..: ... the people and make sure that they were there on time and ...
G: So you were the driver ... truck driver?
..: Uh-huh ... and worker ... she was always out in the field ... making sure that their hoes were sharp enough and their water was there ... and whatever was needed ... my mom was doing that.
M: You know ... what amazing about this? ... you talking about that ... if you go back and check on the older days how many of the kids did you actually see in that much trouble ... like we have now?
G: I don't know ... how many?
M: Because the majority of the kids ... we were growing up ... we were working. You know ... they didn't have this much free time to get themselves involved with gangs and stuff. We might have had but the little gangs would break up at night and go home.Tejano Community Meeting - Abernathy
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G: You were too tired to do too much hell-raising?
M: Yes.
..: 10 o'clock.
..: 9 o'clock.
M: But I don't know how you'd express that in a painting or anything like that ... I mean ... it's just so hard ...
S: But you have done a good job today ...
G: Yes ...
S: ... just listening to you.
G: ... just talking. What did you wear? What clothes were you wearing?
..: ...........
G: What were you wearing? Did you wear ... did you cover yourself to be ... afraid ... to keep the sun from being hot on you ... or ...
M: .........
..: We wore those .......
M: Bonnets .......
G: Bonnets.
..: And I hated them. Especially when there was a bunch of ...
G: Say that again.
..: ...........
G: Okay.Tejano Community Meeting - Abernathy
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..: ... when there was a bunch of teen-agers ... because you couldn't see 'em ... because you'd have that thing ...
M: .........
(laughter and mixed conversation)
..: That was my daddy's idea ... .........
G: Did you wear gloves? to keep your hands ... or what?
..: Some of us wore gloves and some of us did not wear gloves. My thing ......
..: ........ couldn't keep up with the gloves and other people couldn't afford to buy the gloves.
G: Okay.
..: You wore long sleeves.
M: Uh-huh.
G: What about shoes? Did you wear boots or shoes or what?
(mixed conversation)
M: Shoes ...
..: .... or bare-footed.
..: ...... old raggety shoes ... old raggety shoes ... and I remember bare-foot ... yes.
G: Were there good times that you can remember about being in the field or is it just all hard work?
M: They were all good times.
..: They were all good times.
..: Hard work.Tejano Community Meeting - Abernathy
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..: Laughter and singing ... laughter and singing.
M: We'd complain about going to work ... but once we got there ... everybody just got into a good attitude and went to work. It wasn't ... you weren't forced to work.
..: No ... it's like ... we went to work every day and on Satudays when they got paid my daddy would say ... You could only go to ... you can go only to noontime and that's your money ... whatever you make today is your money. Well ... we'd work all day. (laughter) So we could get more money to ......
..: The best thing I remember is being able to work all week long and then ... I don't remember if it was a quarter or fifty cents I got ... and we got to go buy a burger and a milkshake. (laughter)
..: ........ (Spanish) ..........
M: ........ (Spanish) ..........
..: Right.
..: That's what I am saying ... the change ... you know ... in the older times we all stood together ... now we've lost the respect ... we've lost the ... you know ... this is my brother ... well ... he's there ... he's okay over there by himself ... I over here ... I using my time on myself ... I've got things to do ... I don't have time for my brothers ...
M: We're greedy.
..: ... I don't have time for my sisters ... it's my time. Tejano Community Meeting - Abernathy
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You know in my times we were not like that. We were ... we had a strong bond ... you know ... the mother and the dad ... they were a big part of our lives ... you know ... we'd take 'em in and ... you know ... help 'em ... if we had to we'd support 'em ... nowadays it's not like that.
M: We didn't have what they call ... put them in a rest-home.
..: Yes.
M: The Hispanic people kept their family.
..: We kept our families.
..: .......... (Spanish) ............
M: ........ (Spanish) .........
..: .......... (Spanish) ............
M: ... You understood that part didn't you?
G: Some of it.
S: We'll translate it.
M: You'll translate it.
G: We will get this translated. Yes.
S: One of our major themes is family ...
G: Yes.
S: ... which you've been talking about and ...
M: I feel like family is the main thing in Hispanic people ... you know ... they've always tended to have a way of keeping it together ... but now in the '90s ... '80s and '90s ... it seems like it's just breaking apart ... it just ... I don't Tejano Community Meeting - Abernathy
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know if it's ... that we have more education ... or we have more money to play with ... or stuff like that ... it's just ... we're breaking it ... and I did say we. I'm one of them. I think like she said ... we're making more money ... we can do more stuff ... but we forget more stuff ... abandon stuff.
G: I think it's not just Hispanics ... I think it's all over America.
M: Yeah ... uh-huh.
S: Do you have any ideas about the exhibit ... how this could be ...
G: This changing ... this ... I mean ... this change I think is what you're saying is very important.
M: I feel like ...... only changing something like that it's just ... it still comes back to coming in those stupid trucks down here with the tarp ... people in the back ... standing out in the back of the truck ... looking at what's going on ... into different background like people out there in the cotton fields working ....
..: ...........
..: .......... we used to use to pick cotton and you know our dresses were made out of flour sacks ...
M: I remember my mom used to tell us ... What shirt do you want? Pick out the flour you want. (laughter) That's what she used to tell us. Tejano Community Meeting - Abernathy
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S: So maybe ... what do you think about manikins that would be dressed up in these costumes like this?
M: You know just trying to figure out the manikins what kind of clothes to put on them.
G: That's what ... what did you wear in the fields? You weren't wearing the sunbonnet ... what were you wearing?
M: When I was a kid ... we were dressed just like the Anglos ... we had our jeans ... our white jeans ... our tee shirts ... our white shoes ... in the '50s and '60s.
G: Did girls wear jeans in the field or where you wearing skirts?
M: I don't remember.
..: Some of us wore skirts. In my times we were more flexible.
G: Uh-huh.
..: But it was skirts mainly.
G: When you were working in field you were wearing skirts?
..: No.
G: No.
..: Some of them were.
G: Some of them were.
M: The majority of the women I remember in the field they had all the way up to here because they didn't want the V ...
G: Uh-huh.
..: Yeah ... that's right. And pants underneath the skirts.Tejano Community Meeting - Abernathy
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M: Yeah.
..: Underneath the skirts.
G: ....... So that you could bend down without being ....
..: Yeah ... you could bend down and nobody would see anything.
..: But you had ... well ... because back then it was like ... you couldn't wear jeans ... you couldn't wear pants ... up until in the ... what? ...
..: 60s.
..: ... 60s ... 'cause I still remember when I got married with Leonard ... we were out playing the caliche pits and I had to wear skirts ... we didn't have jeans ... or we didn't wear slacks.
G: But you would have worn jeans or shorts or something under the skirts?
..: It'd be pants.
..: Slacks or something?
..: Yeah ... pedal pushers.
G: Pedal pushers. (laughter) I forgot pedal pushers.
..: Because they said were more ... they were more decent.
G: Uh-huh.
..: Yeah.
..: Yeah and there was no shorts in those times.
S: ..........
G: And you were wearing strawhats or ...?Tejano Community Meeting - Abernathy
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M: Me? No ... I didn't wear nothing.
..: Yes. We wore ....
M: I wouldn't wear a hat.
..: Yeah ... the men ... I remember my brothers going hoeing and they didn't have any protection on their heads.
G: No protection on your head.
M: Tee shirt or ...
G: Whatever.
M: ... it would have been great to wear shorts like we do now.
..: Children ... like at my time when I was a young girl ... when I was ... we wore over-sized tee shirts ...
G: Oh ... to keep the ...
..: and you know ... big shirts ... big ... big pants
G: For style or for practical purposes?
..: For practical purposes.
M: You would get all sun-burned.
..: If you didn't have gloves you'd wear the shirts that were long and then you'd just ... you know ...
G: Kind of put them over your hands ...
..: ... yeah ... put the sleeves down this way and just hold it like this and you'd have your hoe ...
M: Nobody wanted to go ... nobody wanted to go to the movies on Saturday and have a mark ... brown mark ... red ... V ........Tejano Community Meeting - Abernathy
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..: So you'd wear your shirts ... you know ... like that ... buttoned up all the way to the top ... and you'd wear ... if you didn't have gloves ... you'd wear your long sleeve ...
M: Those old cotton ... those brown cotton gloves.
..: ... and just hold them ... and hold them like this ... you know ... so you wouldn't get any marks. (laughter)
G: What was the worst part of the day? What was the worst part of the day?
..: Being thirsty and not getting to the water fast enough. (laughter)
G: What do you think ... what was the worst part of the day when you were working in the field?
..: I don't ... I really don't ....
G: You don't remember ... was there a worst part of the day? ... was it in the morning to get up? ... or ....
M: The morning was the world's worst.
G: ... in the hot afternoon or ...
M: Once you got going in the morning it was fine ... you fought all day and you fought with everybody at lunch to see who got the most tacos ... (laughter) ...
S: That's what you ate usually at dinner?
M: Yeah ... we had tacos ... beans ... papa ... potatoes ... and tortillas ... and stuff like that ... whatever ....
G: Now did everybody bring their own lunch? or was there Tejano Community Meeting - Abernathy
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like a common lunch that everybody put in ...
..: Yeah ... our mothers would get up real early in the morning ...
G: And pack you your lunch.
..: ... and pack our lunch. But not individual ... I mean ... this would be a big ...
G: For the family.
..: ... yes ... for the family ... you know ... it'd be all ... like Jean had today ... that little ... that tortilla that was ...
G: Uh-huh.
..: ... folded.
S: Flour tortillas?
..: Uh-huh. That's what we had.
G: You used flour tortillas or corn tortillas?
..: Flour.
G: Flour.
S: And Ms. Medina did you work in the fields.
..: ...... (Spanish) ........
..: Sure ... I worked since I was about 7 years of age. And we travelled from place to place ... seasonal work ... and we hardly went to school. There was times that we went to school half a day and half a day work. And when I grew up I set it on my mind I was going to find me a steady job and stay put Tejano Community Meeting - Abernathy
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in one place and if I ever get married I wasn't going to grow my family that way.
S: Um.
..: I made an effort to change my life.
S: Where did you start out? and where were the ...... ?
..: Rio Grande Valley ... all these places ... back and forth ... back and forth ... wherever the seasonal work was ... we were there.
G: Did you think in places ... in terms of places ... or in terms of crops ... of going to onions ... or going to Lubbock? I'm just curious.
..: I guess that's what was on the mind of our parents ... you know. Certain months ... certain days ... they start the peppers ... they start the onions ... they start the hoeing ...
M: I think the parents ... a lot had already figured it out before they ever come up here ... they'd worked so many weeks in onions ... so many weeks in the bell peppers ... or whatever it was ... and then when that was over they would wait long enough ... if the crops were good they stayed long enough to work on the onion and the cotton ... 'cause a lot of them would work on the cotton and go to the gins.
G: Okay.
S: One of our other themes is Colonial roots ... is that Tejano Community Meeting - Abernathy
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important to you? or do you think for your children to know about the Spanish-Colonial period?
G: The reasons why Texas is the way that it is ... and ... our ties with Mexico are the way that they are?
..: That's another point ....... to me ... knowing where our roots come from ... for my kids ... that's real important. I don't know how anybody else feels ... you know ... or ...
..: I do too.
..: ... our culture.
G: Would someone like to speak to that a little more? Pauline? No?
..: I do. I think it's very important that we all know where our roots came from. I ... because ... my father's father ... my grandfather was from Mexico ... and my mother ... she had an aunt that was ... they fought in the Revolution ... and she had a big picture of herself and I used to think ... God ... you know ... they fought with Pancho Villa ... so I used to think ... God ... I'm proud of that ... you know. That our culture goes back that far.
M: Well, I don't really know. My parents never hardly every talked about stuff like that ... you know ... so ...
G: Do you think ...
M: ... I would love to know what ... how we got here ... you know ... from the beginning ... if I could have the roots checked Tejano Community Meeting - Abernathy
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back ... I would love it ... you know ... from both sides of the family or whatever family it takes. I would like to know what ...
G: Looks to me like we're getting kind of close to the end ... and I'm a little curious ... you all started out in agriculture ... anybody here in agriculture today?
..: ........
G: Does anyone here work in agriculture today? No?
..: I quit about 3 ... 2 years back ... I used to go out hoeing all the time. And I ....
G: So what do you do now?
..: I was managing a pizza place and I quit that ... now I'm gonna be a housewife.
G: Okay.
M: I'm self-employed. I've got a body shop in Abernathy.
.. And I'm a nurse-assistant.
G: In Abernathy?
..: In Lubbock.
G: In Lubbock. Eva?
..: I work on a manufacturing where I live and now and then I go home and just for the heck of it .... (laughter) ... I like to do that.
G: Would you ask your mother what she ... if she would like to talk about something .... ?Tejano Community Meeting - Abernathy
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..: ....... (Spanish) ..........
..: ........ (Spanish) .........
M: ....... (Spanish) ........ ... I was telling him ... you know ... everytime they show a picture of somebody picking cotton they only show a Black person ... that might have been in Georgia and Alabama ... but in West Texas it was always a Hispanic person. You know ... I feel that that's not right the way they have those pictures ... you know ... it's fine to put those pictures where they want to ... but in West Texas when you see somebody picking cotton you can kiss your you-know-what it's going to a Hispanic. (laughter)
G: I think we're about finishing up here ... is that what you're about to tell us? (laughter)
(mixed conversation)
S: ..........
END OF SIDE 2. ABOUT .. MINUTES.