BEXAR C()UNTY HIST()PICAL COM.'1ISSI()N ORAL HISTORY PR()GRAM INTERVIErv v!ITll : Nr . Jack Newman Interviewer: Esther MacNillan Date : September 12, 1979 . Place : Nr. Newman ' s office at the San Antonio Light Publishina Company JvT: Jack, the Flexar Countr:J Historical Commission nral History Program has underr-1ay a Hemisfair project. The intent is to record for posteritr:J as many persons as possible who played some part in San Antonio ' s Hemisfair ' 68 . I ' d like you to tell me r"hat ~<'aS your title and ~then you came on the scene . N: Esther, I arrived in 8an Antonio in March 1966 from Europe • •. Germany . I caPle here at the invitation of .lim Gaines, r,.;ho was then vice president and executive director of the Fair . At anr:J rate, Jim and I . • . I 'm not going to bore you rdth the details . •. had known each other for twenty years ~<.rhen I r..ras with NBC in New York. He t-.'as my boss at fvEAF in New York. He had come to German!}, before he _joined J!emisFair , roJhen he ~;as runninq r·TOAI radio and television, as a meml>er of Railio F'ree F:urope' s Crusade for Preei!orn. The sister station of Radio Pree rurope r,,as _Radio Liberty . I ~1as the deputl] director of Radio Liberty, rvith headquarters in Munich . And our mission, of course, to broadcast to the Soviet l!nion . I hacl gone to a cocktail part'] that Radio Free Europe har7 had in the Rathouse in Munich . And there, after many, man9 years I met Jim . Jim was an extraordinar!J person; perhaps the Nr~.':flli'l 2. mos t extrAordinarrl inforr>all•l et?ucater ,.,erson t'Jat I 'u~ri ever net in my life. !Te har. never arar?lzated from !'i crh .cchool but yet he rear7 onniverously. Phen I tool: hi'f"l to u.tJ o f""icc :~t n};en'eisenfel,.-7 T·lhic"'' hu.ppener to 'he on the edge of t"Je olrJ air fieln r·'!Jere Cha'f"lberlain r>et .'!i tler in the !"ar~o us "Peace in our tine " compact, anr in Far.t, this Tl'as the olil air[lOrt ter!1- inal tvhere r··e r·.1ere operatinrr . ~f: T-That r·ras the nane o ~ tha t place? .~!: 0herr·.reisenFeln. M: You can see r.rhr1 I rvoulrn ' t knoT·' hor' to spell it! N: Being a historrl bu FF, ~e f•'aS .t:asci nater'? vith t·!hat r told him of the lore of that particular rerior. '·'e a l so took '!-JiM tn thP nkto'1erFe,c;t. At t'Jis ti!1e :·re hac been sore thirteen •1cars al1ro ar7 And rre !"icmrer1 thAt r·Te r·ranterJ to coJ7le h one . J.im then _nroroser? t"'at r corne l>Ack to 8an l!ntonio ;qnr be =llli eil rl'ith hil'l i n the 'hroo.r?castina. or>era t:ion T1f"rc . In the meAntime, r·T()JJ.I had been sold. Jim, ~vho had had a very early role in the concept of JleT:Jisfair, was asJ~cd, invi tel? , or persua.}e,l , by the Eoarr' of Tlircctors to bccoMP Fxecutiv ·e Director o~ !!enisfai1· , r·1hen r.ucn Dinc;_mal l, t·1l10 'Jac7 7•een the Executive Director of the SeattlC' Fair, (!·.hich t·;as really the prototy11c of J!enisfair) resi!Jnec anc~ le!'t . . SulJserruently I receiveC. a telephone call !'rom Jin am? ca"~'e to .ru.n J',ntonio . Came first on an explorator!l trip u.nr1 as happens in so rTJany cases, t/OU r?evclo.rJ an afFection or l ove af'cair cor a place> an<7 this rrra.h;;Ac1 us . !! : !!acl ~~ou ever J>een in C:an llnton. i o l:>eforc? .'.': !lever .'J.ad been in .<:;an llntonio beFore . Never even knerv t·.'here it t·.:as . I kneF it r-1as in Texas. Jim said he ncedec? an executive assistant. So my job in 1 9GG t·.ras to be e:.;ecutive assistant to JiT:'. After just a .fC'I/1 nonths , it became very visil•le to hi 'I anr? I aucss to me that the experiences NEf·'!fll.N ]. that I hac in dealincr Pith the P.l"'.~-assies in n!J previous role •·1it?: t!Je Depart·- nent of the ltrny D.nc the Air Porco in both Europe an·i tvi th the TD.r rast that t~ere should be somebody r,rho PAS responsi!.>l~"> for soliciting the forei'] n countries to partic.ipate in I!enisfair. .rc:n r,ri thin a fer.; months of T"'IJ arrival , I t!as f.esignatcd nirector of International Relations . :t: That's hot-r you got that ! In this article that tlOtl ~>'rote for Ean /lntonio !·~agazine it calls you njrector o+" rxhibitor Visitor Relations . Did you get that later? ll: Yes . This is somethin~ that ~erlla_ns you're not a•-.rare of: In li.pril or maybe l!ay, t:ithin one month or six tveeks after the Fair opened, .I in Gaines resignec1 for the second tiT"'e . l!e han resicmer7 once beFore t-!hich happened six !'lonths after I arri ver' in San lintonio because of a particul ar encounter he had r·.ri th .c:cna tor Yarboroug!1 on an airplane . Jim resignee?. I thought, ".'fy qooriness, here I've come 4,rJnn or s,nnf) niles to San Antonio and the guy v1ho hrought ne here is r;one. " Fut r1arshall Steves, Paul Ho-v.rell and Tom Frost and sone of the others asked if I would stal.J , r.;hich I did, and continued in that role . llt that time , then, the r:xecutive !'ice President anc Secretary became Frank :•,1nrlpelli I r-lho !vas Jim r;aine , s de pUtT../. The Roarc1 rer.1ained intact anc? ,Jim' s role tvas filled by Frank :•tanupelli. ltnd then some nine months or a year, I 'm sorrrJ I don ' t have the precise til'le frane, <7im r;aines v'aS asked to cone bacl:, r•rhich he riiri . M: ·~o asked him? u: It r·Jas on the recoT1JTlenrla tion of the Foarr?. T don ' t think f.lr. ZA.chr:J was very please<1 r·rith this because l1r . 7A.c.~rtJ hA.s kind of a universal position vis a vis the entire col'lr.1uni ty anc? l.,e h'AS An onponent of Jim ' s returning to the Fair anr! as you ' 11 recall, .•rr . Zachrq >-'aS chairrnan of the Boaril, Dill Sinkin tvas Vice Presi c7ent, vice chair!'lan of the Roarc7 and Harshall Steves vras President of the Jlemisfair :Joard oF Directors. '·7hich rievelopec1 ;JEW!llN A since the very tiT'Ie, bacl: in the early days nrior to my arrival, solici tinr;I the support of the state r;fOVernment . I 'm sure this is not apocryphal but I think this is true; there t.•as a meeting anr-1 of course, John Connall q , who was governor of the state and Dill Sinl:in h'<lS not in the camp of ,John Connally; Dill 8inkin ~vas a Liberal; John Connally r·,as a Conservative . It beca1t1e very visible that Bill Sinkin ' s role as chairman of the Fair was an untenable position in terms of netting state support . So in a closed meeting , lfr. Zachry said in his ver>J direct, blun t t•Tay that as Far as Mr . Sinkin vias concerned, "This JJog r·•on 't P'unt." So !Jill , a very reasonable and practical person, in v i et" of the circunstances , vacated his role as c 11airnan of the Board, 1->ecaT'Ie vice chairman and 'fr. 7.achry became chairman . That ' s hov,r that happenec1 • NoT<? I think I have this basically straight . But to get back to Gaines: Gaines t.ras hrought back to the Fair . I t r·1as not a happy time. Climatically, t·re had more rain than vle had ever had before; there t•Tere problems ahout meetin~ deadlines, certainly; but on the other hu.nr'l there tvere expenr..itures that h'ere involved that exceeded the budget and after the first 30 or 35 days of the Pair , attendance hegan to slip a little bit and so Gaines once again retireri , resigned, or 11as fired, as the circumstances ma') l:le. And '·1r. ?.achrrJ 1·ras, in effect, appointee br; t!Je Doard to run the Fair . !fars'!lall .Steves still remained President; but !fr . 7achr1) took over . '1: I remember that . N: Six or eight ~.reeks after the Fair starter? . ,c-:o then .'Jr. Z.:w'1ry, -v•l20 is a remarkable person T·lhen it comes to Tflanaaincr things, decirierl that this Fair v.roul(1 l;e rut in the hands of . . . I ' ve forgotten .. . seven or eight Directors . At that time r·re naq have had as manr1 as eleven or tl·'elve Directors ... staff Directors of the rair . ·~: T!1e book sar1s seven. NEr"lMAN 5. N: Mrs. Vickers is probably ri~ht. on a selection process, he selected seven of us . Those people, as I recall, v1ere Jack Trawick, Bill Jackson, Sam Godfrey, Irv Weinman, myself, and Prances Vickers , who t•Tas a netvcomer (he had come down here from Austin to run the Convention Center) so he was put in charge of the entertainment program of the on-grounds activities for the public. At an y rate, t here tofere seven of us. iit that time , in typical Zachry style , he said, "Gentlemen , I don't know hot•! to run a F'air; you people do. fie will meet once a ~veek . At that time tve will discuss problems that are extraor dinary , my door is al tvays open and feel free to come. I will he available at any time . He wrote us a memorandum; I 'll never forget that memorandum . It went along these lines: "rve have a job to do . I know we can do it . If you make a mistake, kick yourself in the fanny and go smiling into the next problem. There is one thing I insist on . All of you are tvorking seven days a week . Nobody can function under those circumstances . You tofi.ll take one day of:f a week ." And >vhat he did was call our secretaries to make sure tve took a day off. So for the first time in my life , I found myself sneaking into the job . I had to hi de because vital things were happening every day . There were national events; foreign events; occasions that you just simply had to he there and there was no way that you could take a day off. And you onl~ had six months t o do this dam Fair in so that ~ou realll) had to be there . Right? Once it was done , it t-.•as done . It tl7as not a normal routine sort of a :function . At any rate, at this time 1-1hen 11r. Zachr!J introduced the re organization , he had asked us to . .. the Directors at that time of whom there were more than seven .. . make recommendations to him on how the thing should be re organi?.ed . At this time , as I told you, I ~>las solely the Director of International Relations, which function lfJas not onltJ to get coun t ries into the F'air but during the course of the Fair , to ~tlorJ~ with them constantly on their pavi- NEfi!MAN lion problems , on their national days, on the receiving of their important visitors .. . their chief of state or whatever it amounted to. I had made a proposal which would integrate under one department, 6 . to be called Exhibitor- Relations, which would include procotol, the quides and hostesses , special events, the commercial pavilions, such as the General Motors, the Fords , as well as the foreign pavilions so that all o.f the activities relating to ceremonial activities , VIP relationships, di rect communications with the Federal government, which r-.ras an exhibitor, of course, (U . S . pavilion , the largest . ) They T•1ere exhihitors; they were tenants, so to speak, on our property . All of those activites v1ere united under one program . At this point , I appointed Carlos Freymann in charge of international relations to deal with the foreign pavilions; General .TJor r Newton 1-1as in charge of protocol; Chuck Snyder was in charge of special events; Jim Taylor was put in charge of the business pavilions . So r-.re had special events; protocol; guides and hostess program; foreiqn pavilions and the commercial pavilions . That all became one department . f.! : Under you? N: Yes, under Visitor-Exhibitor relations . All the Exhibitors and all the visitors came under one uml>rella. So that was the way we operated until the end of the fair . M: It worked, did it? It worked well? !1: Yes . It worked because they were logical components that had operated independently so that if one person rvere in charge of all of these things, it created the ability to make decisions, within whatever capabilities t-Je had. M: r'lhat I want to know is this: Did you personally go over to France and get them in ; Germany; Switzerland? NEf"lMAN 7 . N: This is kind of an interesting thing . After the first couple of months that .r had been in this joh as .rim ' s executive assistant, it became very visihle to r.1e that r-1e r.-1ere solicitinq thP foreign countries in the vrrong tvay within the til'le frame that r.re hail. r·Te had a man in Europe, Rill Phillips, whose wife v1orked For the Bureau oF International r.xposi tions and we ha(l Er,•en nin~all as consultant. nill was baseri in Paris and he was responsihle, in effect, for soliciting the European contries for the Fair. M: r·Jas he employerl by Hemisfair? N: lie was paid as a consultant by Hemisfair. As was DinlJ"'all . In fact it v1as Bil l ann his ~viFe v1ho tvere basically responsihle for obtaining the International Exhibition sanction For l!emisfair . It vTas not designated a. r·TorlrJ ' s Fair nor was it ever riesignated .. . it !-!•as an international exposition. f.!: I vTant to interrupt here: this Rill Phillips . .. tvhere did he come from? r·!as he from . .. N: Bill currently is with the Depart ment of Commerce . He had worken for many years in Europe with the other rlorld ' s Pair, specifically Seattle . And he and Dingvrall had become very closely allied during t hat time , when Dingv1all was runnincr CenturzJ 21 . Ann they needed to get the IBE sanct.ion so it v1as Bill 's wiFe anil Bill anti at that time the17 got together . rre spoke French fluentlrJ . l•J: I never heard of him. Ile isn ' t listed anlfwhere . N: No , he isn ' t . Rut he had a role . Dut as I said , he is current.ll) vri t h the Department of Commerce; tvas involver7 with the Pair at Seattle, etc . f.lell, to get back to other elements of this . It occurreil to me that what 1•.ras happening "'as not the '"all to qo . f'le "'ere sending delegations to Mexico; r.;e were asking (;overnor Connally to go to South America with Carlos Freymann; and Phillips vras working in Europe . It occurred to me that this :n:r·nAN B. rvas not the stratagem that shoul(1 he anplieil. •·.'hat you really needed to do . .. ,:md this is vlhat I r:Ud: I l isted all of the countries in the r-.rorl c1 that I t hought night be orosnective canr!ir7ates to nartici pate in a P'orlr? ' s Fair . Then I startec a process of elinination . I eliminated all those countries that rvere having serious econorric or politi cal probl ens; I eliminated all the countries that wol!ld. have no real interest i n oarticinatincr in a Fai r; I elimi nateil all t hose countries that hai1 never parti cipater1 in a Fair and lJOU rdl l recall this >vas a time r,•hen a lot of ner-1 countries !Jere being horn. Then I rerfucec all those countri e s in the r·1orlil dor·m to tJn . Then from that list of ."0, I put uhat .T fir;u r erl r..rere the real, l i ve canriidates for the Fai r ann t"he ones that h'ere not so qooil . 7\nC. renuced that list to 35 countries that r-roulil be open to solicitation . Nov.' .r kner·• because, of my previous involvement r·•i th forei rm <1overnr.1ents, that ever:1 governnent has ilifferent structural ora ani zation.r.; that i n sorne instances, the foreir_m o ffice r·•as the Final aTJprovin~ authori t y ror nar t.i c i •x1tion. I n sone i nstances, it was the nenr:J.rtnent o.f Conmerce; in sone instances, it r,ras the F'or eiqn Traile ani/ nusiness o f fice . Tn sone instances, it micrht ?e sonethinq else , see? So I r1inn ' t rcall') believe in thi s nT,iloso.nhn of senilincr deleaations to the forei ern countries at the outset hecause, even if t 71e11 T"'a'~e a favora'h] e ir1f.lre!.'!.c;ion on the people _in t 11e Foreian countr11, ti'J.e'J man not :-.e tAll<inc- to tJ..e ri0.":t neonlp. And even iF they r-1ere tal king to t he r i ght peopl e , that government v..•oulr7 senr7 a nessage back t o its aml;assaclor ancl sa~1, " ' 1er1, ;,rhat the hell is happening in ~an Antonio? .rs it T·.'Or t h it for us to J:e involver7?" 'i'he Ambassat_7or Fould ask his Counc;el ";eneral ~rho would he involver•· i n this terrjtorial acti vity . So the first t:ling t·le cli<l uas tn invite , out of thic; 3!'i potential, really solir. list, t:1e .rnajori t 11 of Counsels General on a one to one hasis to ')An 7\ntonio, ."lEf·llJAN () where, t•1itl1 the help oF host rouples vho v.•ere involved rlirectl~l or inc!irectly h'i til the Fair, vle parat?ed .<:an ,1ntonio he!:ore then. "elconed them; all of tile stuff that turns penple on Fhen thct/ come to San 11n tonio . /lt that tine we proviiled them rvit:, all the basic materials; vrhat it cost etc . ; t:'e had a_noilel of the international area.; rrave ther:1 a little map and told then h'h!J 1-le tho!lrrht the!l slwul n he there . '!: You t·.rere that far aherul in tJour planning then? I!: r·rell, ~·Je har7 to nove very rapidly . r·'e r·Tere bringing these people in on a ver!l quick basis . The theory being that if they r.vere sold on the Fair, and then their governnents rvere approacheil anc7 the governments then t-Jent 'back and said what ilo you /:nor.-.: abou t the f'air: a, you !'.'ere making the Counsels General and the Arr~bassadors look r;ood by being able to repltl immediately: "f'Te knor·T all about this situation" rir;ht? J,ml the second tlJing is that having been sold on the f'air, thell could say , hopefully they l'!Oulc say , " >le think it is in the .best interests of our government to participate in the f'air and it ' s an econom.ic, reasonable venture ." So then after all o.f: the preliminaries things had 'heen made, I asked Bill T'hil l ips to qo anrl call on these countries after thei r Counsels <,eneral had been here . Those countries i n Europe, of course, t-1ere the natural ones; the I tal ys , the Frances, the \.rea t Dr i tains, the Gernanys, the Denrrrarks, the Sv1edens, the ilonvays, anc7 the ,c:paniards and the Portugals and Greeces and even Tunisia and Algeria . r:o !Je !•tent on that venture and then ,. having l i ved in the f'ar r.ast previously sor:te ten years, T kner,, that territory very rvell, so I thought mat7!Je that c1rea should be mine . So I took off on a trip. This tvas not a hit or miss trip hecause v1hat it involved Fas goinr; to r.rashington, D. C. and r;etting the State Department, providing the State Department with m~ proposed itinerary and getting State to advi se the eMbassies all over the t-Jorlr7 once arra i n on t·Jhat f!emisfair t·1as all ahout: where NEf•Tf!/lf! ]0. it r·:a.s lncatei'.: v!hAt its detai.Is !-'Pre: hPnefits to the TTniter? States; Anr7 nf course, inclllr1.inCT the Fact t~at the Pniter' StAtes CTovernP.Jent +"t~lll) endorsed it; that it hA11 I."''.F: anprnval; nnr' thnt it t·'ntllr? be most helnful i~ the1; cou],.:r nive !'-'r . T·'hatever nssi stAnr:e thetT could . llnil in Ar7vAnce to provir'le ne td th the loC1iCr1l cannir'IAte 1 the lonicnl nerson to tall': to ana to set up the a.ppointr1erts for we on a sche,luler' basis. 7'1-JPn 1 in aclci tion to that, td th the cooperation oF' Pan American, thetJ helper? to the extent that the ~~hole trip t-1'aS or:ranizen . I had all this material rvith me anr'l: every place alonn !'"''I route 1 T l•'as met hlJ !'an ;11T'?erican .: transported; theu mail0 the hotel accomr:1oc'a tions ,· the11 assisten me tlJrourrh customs: and then I tv as usual.t•J net hlJ 'Qnth Pan Anerican ann the .<=it ate nenartment . llut it took a little fahric oF orC1ani zntion in order to "n t}-lis . So m') tar0'ets t·Tere Japan I Korea I Nationalist rhina I !fOnCJ Kon(T I the Phillipines, Australia I Ner-t Zealanrl, am1 'T'hai.Ianr' . nnt of that :rroup, ns a result oF this single mission, v•e rmt rorea, t·rc :rot !Ta tionAlist Chinr~, rve rir'l nnt rret fTont;t Kon~!, [•re had narticiDation b•J the Phillipines althonC1h theq 'fJafl comP?itteri 1·1hen I tvas there not to he present • .• hllt ins tear? of a Full formal pavilion 1 theq came up :•rith a Phil l ipine rtestnliTnnt v1hich is still currentlrJ on t1-Je C1rounds; .l'lnstralia 1 .T vras surA r,ra.c; n shoo-in hecr1USe T:il r'lArk t·ras orrr a!'77.>assador vho srrhsequentl~! hprA.r·>e the Commissioner of the F'eriern..I Pnv.ilion at FeP?isf air anil I rvas sure Tfe t·'Orzlri CTet Jl.ustral ia but Jlrrstralia r'l.inn 't: feel so inr:liner': nei t her c7id .Vet<' 7en1Anr7; Thailand nirJ. So out of that tri .n tve qot fo11r out of' thP. P . (follr Ani! n half.) incluilin:r the Phillir>ines, so thouah r·.re rlid not (Tet Net•' 7ealanil 1 Australia 1 J!ong l~onn, forf'lallt], Fe riid have " Fr>r Fastern coHntries out of the ei:rht Fe tmnt aFter . Jlnr .T think th.is tvas dne to a C1Teat extent [111 virtlle oF the r>flvance r>lannincr ani/ also .h11 the assi.c;tn.nr:P. of the State ne.nartment and Pan llmerir:An 1 v1ho helper' us out on this thin~ . NEr•!r1AN 11 . Ny tar(Tet r-ras .?5 . r-'e Fmr'len ur>, as I recall, ~ri th ,?o or J!l forMalll! partici natincr cot•ntries in the Pair . '1: You har1 Inilia . N: r-..ro, r-1e rlidn ' t c:ret Intiia . Inriia ttTas a commercial. enterprise; a concessionaire as far as the PAir was concerner7 • nut all of this, interestincrl~ enough Esther, involven the anvance commitment to the S[>ace that F0!1lr'l be rermirer in the J,nnn srruare foot modules in what we caller'/ the International area oF the Pair . .cio nine or ten months hefore I had the cornJni tments, r-re hail to r.alcula te the nur>bers oF mo(1ules that needed to he J,uil t ann the amount oF F.Ioor space that rvou.Id he occuriei! or forecast w.1>at each cmmtr•1 v'Olllil take . In other t-mr(ls, I had to pull out oF the top oF 11111 head that 8pain r·:or1lr? surel~1 take 1?., non square feet: I hail to sa17 thAt Prnnr.e 1-1oulr'l take ~>,nnn, that ,7apan t-rould take r-. ,nnn anr'l so on . 'ilell , this r-ras not all auess t•.TOrk hecnuse r·re were stn.•Jin:r constantly in touc'1 v1ith the rollnsels anr7 all those peor>le . You knmr thel) couliln ' t cmnmit their crovernment.c;_: they ha"' to quess . llnr7 t-1or!li/ ~1011 believe, 1''! a miracle, (oh, in ar1r7.i tion to these other countries r-.rhich reallq hooster7 np onr J1articination, Fith the helJ> of Carlos Frem'1ann anr7 others in Fa.c;hinr;ton, r-;e (TOt the OJ!.. .c: to pn.rtici,nate as a unit that rvotlld re)?resent the nraani ?.ation of Ar.7erican Stn.tes anr'f vre reallrJ J::.a r7 representation -FroM t1m Five Central JI!Tierican repuhlics that is Central l1.merica tor1cH!. TI-re•! took one moilrlle J,nnn scrnare -Feet iointl11 as a unit . ) 8o tve coulri hrar:_r aJ-Jout T'!ore C()lmtries if r.rc r.ranter? to .: J-Jut T•'e r'lidn't Feel it r·mulri he fair to ar?vertise that . nut rvoulil riOII helieve that ever11 sinale moriule rvns fill e <?; therA ~"ere nonP le:ft over: and everwme rvas occuoied btl a foreir;n participant . It r.,as just a blooily miracle that it turner. o11t that r-ra17 . M: lind you c!i .rl it in such a short tiMe. N: '·7ell, in less then a 11ear anr'f a half . '!'hPn, considerin0 the r·rorlr'l rJFf'll1liN 12. situation h'llere a nat.ion r.olllr topple ... For exaPlrJle, t·re thoucyht that Tunisia l•'as in For sure . :qut all of' a suri(len the pro.blems rieveloperi in North Africa tvllich preventer'l them Fron heinrr involver? . ~! : Three oF !lOU cUr'! it . !!: Yes, it t·ras a qoori staff. It acrain vtas a tribute to neople as I said in that article . You ~et involved in something and realize that t;ou have a deadline : the darn gates have to onen b~1 llpril 6 , 19f.8 anri tJOU hetter have them there, right? r•.'ell , it was a little shake!] . F'or example, the Thailand people arri veri one day before the Fair openec7 • Por tugal did not arrive until a month aFter the Pair hari o_nenec?. Ilut thetl all ultir.zateltl enr7ec!. up being there . Defore I c:ro an!J further, I think reallt! a historic footnote at this staqe that ' IOU T'li ght be interesterl in. necause T liver7 in Spain anr7 Portugal, those t-'ere tTofO countries we T<Tanter! ver!l definitely in the Pair . This is some .. , 110u better look at this nict ure ... tl1is is r·1al ter !·fcld lister an0 ne in .11ailri0.. It sa1_7s Pehruarv, 1 'lFP , .Zl nril, the Pair is n,oing t o J"e open ann they Fere not formallr1 co1'11!7itter7 . Sorreho2tJ nersuac?ed r-ralter ·~cAll istAr ... no , I got r:Aine ' s support and everuborlt.r else, knm•'.ing Portucyal am7 .c::oain, that these people !·•ould relate to the mat;or of C::an llntonio . necause he t·las a venerable T'lan, he l1eld a ti ttllar role that v1as iT'lportant, ann T needer7 a high level salesnan, So he anr' I t·lent to Portnrral anr7 vre h'ent to .c::nai n. I' .Il never forrret this l'ecause croina over on the a i r ,nl ane .T reneT'lher sarrinrr to r·1al ter, 'Tou ' re a very outsnol=en gw1; on this trip-this is J~ini! of a dinlonatic mission ... sn kinr? oF sit on it if 'JOU Feel lil-:e speakinrr out ." lind he s aid, "You mean I can ' t say Fhat I want to? " lind I said, "I can 't tell you that . ,:qut it night l.'e helpFul iF sometines 1.10u just helrl ~Jour ton:;ue anr7 (!idn ' t sa!/ am1thina, . " r·7ell, he's rrreat and he laughed at this . r • .ro go t to Portu(_!al anri vre were 11et lJ!l the :.tate .ne_nartment . There h'AS NEr'IMAN 1 3 . no press at the airport . It t·1as kind of a cool reception by the Portuguese. r1re were entertained that evening by the Ambassador and his tvife and we got tremendous interest from them . And they set up t he appointments; nothing was happening as far as acknowledging our presence except a brief item in a couple of the dailtJ ner.1spapers. Now this was s-till in the clays of Salazar, who t-.ras the dictator ann very ill at that time . So we made our rounds and really we weren 't getting very far. Nobody was committing -themselves . r1re ultimately wound up in the office of the Foreign Minister rvho t-!as a very articulate man who spoke English very fluently and was a friend of Senator ,John Totver' s . Tower had sent a letter in advance to sort of help us out, introduce us, and that sort of thing. The conversation wasn't scintillating up until this particular point and politically t he United States had a problem rvi th Portugal because , diplomatically, the United States was in effect in support of the rebels in Angola. vlell, our Ambassador and of course , there t•Jas nothing that he could say that would be supportive of Portugal which v1as a dictatorship •.. a rightest dictatorship. So we just kind of ski rted around t;his issue and were speaking politely. I think -the Foreign Minister t•las getting a little bit bored, when ~val ter McAllister said 1 "Nr. Minister 1 excuse me _just a second, I have to say something to our Ambassador in front of you." lie said , "Mr. Ambassador 1 I am not a representative of the city of San Antonio and t;he people of San Antonio. I'm a citizen of the United States. I knov1 what your position has to be as far as Ar.>.bassaclor is concerned but I can say what I 1-1ant to say and I want to say something to the Foreign Hinister." And the Ambassador said 1 "r.Yell, certainly ." So the Mayor said to the Foreign Minister of Portugal, "Mr. Foreign Ninister, I don ' t care t·lhat the rest of the world thinks; I 've been to Angola and I think your government is doincr one hell of a job . Those people are better off than thetJ've ever been before. I think the NEf~TJ·1AN 14. rest of the •.-.rorld c ould v:ell be appreciative oF what the CJOvernment of Portugal has done in a very backtvard llfri can country." r"ell , the Foreign Minister smiled and vle no sooner got back to the hotel than the television was there; the press t·Tas there; r.ve v!ere giving intervietvs. Oh, and the Am"assador said, "I can tell you that Portugal v:ill participate in Hemisfair 1968 . The Foreign Minister said so ." You knov.r, I was so delighted. And sure enough , not only did they participate, but they announcer'! publicly that ther7 were going to . Then, the rest of the Ninisters, h'hen ther] got the lead from t he Poreign Minister and the government, got so excited about this thing thet) entertainer'! us and then tve got to talking about Saint llnthony de Padua, vlhich happens to be the patron saint of Lisbon and the patron saint of 8an llntonio, TexAs . So the Portuguese saicl , "Not onl ~1 are we going to participate, ~~·e are qoing to send you a statr1e of Saint l1nthom1 ." lind that statue did arrive and that statue v1as J'lountecl, as uou t·Jill recall, hy the little bridge on the river extension where the new !1arriott hotel is rroinq to he . I don ' t knov1 vlhere it has been moved natv but if l./OU will recall, during the Fair, vJe had a candlelight procession and each r1ear since rve ' ve had one . M: Do you suppose they 've moved it? N: I don ' t kno~o1 where it is. They hail to because of the ne~·' construction, I 'm sure . But at am1 rate, we have to creilit r·.Talter ;VcJlllister tdth that. !!: llein!'f outspoken. :1: To an extent, the opposite hanpened v.rhen we arrived in srain. Pranco was ill so we i!irin ' t get a chance to see him but f•lal ter diil an excellent jol• . i·7e met with the .~fat~or of !~ailrid, he and I, vle hoth presented medallions to the !1arJor of !!adric1 and h'e din meet t he Foreign Minister and things !vent very well . But the curious thing tvas the Ambassador and his t'life were at that time llnthony Biddle Duke . llnd politically you couldn't have found NEf'7!1AN 15. t•·TO people more separated than J!fcl\llister and the r>ukes. nut the1; entertained us beautifully and because he ' s the kind of a c;uy he is rval ter ~1cJillister himself, even though they i!idn ' t wrree politically, the!J just adored h.im. They reall!J r'lii'; thet7 thought he "'as somethint;r else. They came here to the openinr; of the Fair vThen he became rhie.F of Pr()tocol . !1: Oh 1 ilid ther1? .'1: f•'hen LB.J came 1 he tvas Chief' or Protocol . M: JTave tJOU any ide a r·1ht1 Portugal cane 1 ate? N: rvell 1 ther1 started late uou see; the!l har'ln ' t made up their minds. It took r·ral ter !!cAl lister to tip them over. llnd one of the fascinating thinas 1 Fas Franco,· he r·Tas 68 at that time and Falter must have heen at that tine . .. he ' s nbout qn nor..r . . . so he must have been 7P. or so1'1ethin~ , tvhen he r.-1ent . As I said, our appointment ,,,as cancelled because Franco v1as ill ann v1hen r·Je ca1'1e back and he reporteri on our trip to the Executive Com1'1i ttee 1 he said, "UnhappiltJ we di<7n't aet to see (;eneralissimo Franco. ll.pparentliJ , he ' s getting a litt.Ze old and frail." Somebody said, " Iro'Vl old is he?" lind he said, " GR . " 1'1 : (laughina) f'1alter iloesn ' t paf! any attention to how old !Je is . •'V : .'Jo, he roesn ' t knm,, hOk' ol il he is . .'·1: 8i1'7pl !1 a1'1azing . Yo11 talkeil, in this article 'JOH vTrote for the San Antonio mat;razine . . . I ' i! like that on the tape because it r.-ras such a nice thinq !Jotz vrrote un about havinrr a harri ilau . . . and . . . can you rememrer v1hat you said? Can IJOU tell somethinn about it briefly? N: They wanted me to do a !'ieee on the lfJth Anniversary of the Fair. I didn ' t tvant to do a statistical niece or an economic piece or how the ci t!l had really benefited from it aFter all these times: or vrha t was involved in economics or politics of the Fair. r·That reallu stimlllated the article NEf•TNAN 16. which is related to the importance of neople as far as the Pair was concerned, was dramaticalll! hrouqht home to me ann r</as the crux of this article: It ~"as a beautif ul Hemisfair eveninc; . As I said we not only TIJOrked 6 and 7 days a week but our days r?idn ' t end until la t er in the eveninq and that was the best time of the nay; everythinCJ l.JOU coulil do had been done and you t-.ranted to go out and savor this environment . And it hadn ' t been one of the greatest datJS, in terms of problems . . . there were alT11ays problems. I wandered out on the Fair qrounrl!:;; and reall!J it t>ras lovely; the lights were sparkling, the ToT11er liCJhts t·.Tere a tiara in the sk!J; you could hear the laughter and see people enjoying themselves, you could hear the music from various plazas; you could smell the clean air. I t>1as _just standing there; I had no bad~e, no special identification . I don ' t know if this person thought t hat I had a tt>1itch or that I was nervous or whatever it was he came up to me and said , "Pardon me, are you connected with the Fair?" I suspected the rvorst . Somethin~ like he vras cheated or he didn ' t like the food or he had lost his kid or something like that. But we had been conditioned; you don ' t even have to be conditioned here in Texas . I think after a time, even though you ' re not a native Texan, you kino of generate a little human tvarmth. I answered, "r•Jhat can I do? Is anl.Jthinq wrong?" I rvas taking the ne!'7ative vier-.r. M: You were ready . N: lind this quy said, "I just want to tell you, or somebody around here, that this is best dam Fair I've ever been to. I have been to Montreal, I have been to Ne~o1 York to J:>oth of their Pairs, 8eat1:le, but this one is the best one I' ve ever been to . It ' s not the biggest, hut there is something al>out this place that reallt/ ~ets people. Pfaybe it ' s the people . " So at that particular Moment, he took off; I said, "thank you . '! M: That made your day. NE¥1MAN 17. N: So I said to myself, that guy really hit it . You can live through all the picky criticism; you can live through the day to day disasters of rain and the attendance not reaching what it 1•1as supposed to be , because it ' s the people. It wouldn ' t have been here if it weren't for the Jerome Harrises, for the Henry B's; the Marshall Steves going out and getting all that underwriting; the Tom Frosts; the Forrest Smiths; the president of the Alamo National Bank, former chairman . If they hadn ' t gotten together and created the joint banking arrangement; the pledges from the underwriters , if it hadn ' t been for Sinkin compromising; if it hadn 't been for Jim Gaines; if it hadn't been for Frank Manupelli who went in there under great stress, under great difficulty, and Pat Zachry who, right in the middle of the game, put his money 1·1here his mouth was and his time and everything else. But dam, in addition to that, here were a whole lot of people. There tvere, in effect, foreigners l ike myself who were new to San Antonio; there were people t-tho lvere just so caught up in this i dea that despite what some of the people in the press t.rere were saying • . • nay- sayers out in the community, that "this thing l\1ill never happen; San Antonio can't do this ." The Vivian Hamlins, the Allison Peerys , the O' Neil Fords, all of these people out there t.rho just refused to let the dam thing die. Now, in the midst of all this, we were coping t-ti th each other. M: Lots of controversy . There's alt'lays that in any situation. END OF SIDE I . SIDE II. N: The staff . .. I t-.rould say was an improbable group; for some curious reason, I guess it was a miracle or something, we got good people . M: ¥lhen you say s taff, v1ha t exactly do you mean by staff? N: I'm talking about Jack Trawick , the comptroller; John Daniels, our NErVMAN 18 . counsel who was also our secretary; I 'm also talking about Carlos; I 'm talking about Bill Jackson who ran the concessions operations; I 'm tal king about Allison Peery who had t he architectural - construction role to fill; I 'm talking about Irv Weinman; I'm talking about all of the directors of the staff activities who had their counterparts on the Board of Directors . For example: International Relations : my counterpart was Tom Frost whom I certai nl y can ' t say enough about because when I was being pressured •.. "Why wasn ' t Tunisia signing? or rvhy wasn't . .• (you know) here we' ve only got nine months and t-le ' ve only got f our or five contracts , etc . " Tom, having the perspective, having lived in Mexico , having lived abroad , so to speak , understood the situation . And when the heat came on me in the Execut ive Corruni ttee meeting, he'd stand up in the meetinq and say, "Nmv wait a minute . We ' re dealing with sovereign countries; we're dealing with people ~vho do not move with lightening-like rapidity . If Jack says it's going to work , believe me I think it ' s goinq to t·1ork. So get off his back." He didn ' t say it in those words but t hat was the kind of support I got from Tom Frost . The conflicts that there were were basically pol itical . As a new-comer to the community, certainly I did not understand it all. In the first place, one of the basic problems was that there was fear that it would be identified with an establishment project . That there were not enough of our Mexican-American community involved . That other than Alfredo Vasquez and Dr . Jos~San Martin, there was nobody who represented the minority community on the Executive Committee . The money had been basicall y raised out of the establishment and the Board o f Directors were surely the movers and shakers . They weren't representative of the masses . So Senator Yarborough and Charlie Grace, who was then county judge ... I think he had just been defeated by Bruzzie Reeves, I'm not sure . .. but Grace and Pete Torres and the others of that community ~11ere allied with Senator NEv7l1AN 19. Yarhorourgh, r.vho ha~l had a runnincr vendetta r.ri th John ConnallrJ forever . So there tvas a lot of political infiahtina . r·Thile all this h'as aoina on , the staFF was i11st :roing about its job and hopina that it all r·muld work out . In terms oF conflict . .. as far as operations rvere concerned, there t-lAS none . ror that , the person who deserves a tremendous amount of credit for beina level - headed and unflappable was Frank Manupelli, t·Jho throuahout this remained cool; ilidn 't c_ret excited: kept people workinq tocrether . rris role rvas one I consider vastlq imnortant. !1 : r•lhat !·laS his title? N: He t.vas assistant to r;aines. r:aines had the joh and then For a time, he had r:aines ' job ann reported to Stew~s and then when r:aines came back, he rerorted once aqain to r:nines. Then ~<.rhen r:aines leFt again, he reported to Zachrl) . Three months into the Pair, I think it l<'as , he left under 1-1hat kind oE pressures I don't knmr. I think it became monetary; staff cllt backs and one t hinq and another . So he went to t-rork for Par! Ellison . f1: Oh , did he? When t~ras • . • ? I have a newsnaper cliopina ... N: It tvas about l'ay, llpril, ,June of lf'I6R . M: I have a clippinc_r here , dated 1967 . . . nctober 2n, and it says, "l!emisfair ' s Nanupe.Il i said today he ' s de fini telr1 interested in the Ci tr1 Manaqer 's _job being vacated hy Jack Sheller! . " N: That was true . That r<'as t.;hen .Jerry Henckel became the Cit!J f1anager . At that time, !1anupelli ' s name tvas beinlJ bandied about as a potential City Manager . Jerr!l was assistant Ci tr1 r.tanaaer and so of course, the _joh was up for grabs. i'fanupelli t-1as one of those consi ilerecl and he was mildly interested but Jlenckel qot the job . H: One of the thinqs I noted flown v'hen I 1.ras tryinq to c_ret as much material as I could together, ~·,as mention of the fact, vlhich we knew when i•Te cane over from Houston . . • that San Antonio had alt-.rarJs been knot-mas kinil oF a NF:rvMAN 20 . manana town. It hail relicrl on the tourists anri on the militar11 ana the11 did not 1-1ant development . 8ome1-1here it is stated that the pol-?ers-that- be that t.o1ere gettin~ this Hemisfair toaether, ~>.reren ' t afFronted bq the ir1ea because it r-vasn ' t goina to brini.J industr11 in; it r-1as going to bring sort of an emphasis on the historical traditions and that sort of thinq so that it wouldn ' t hurt the status quo . N: That ma!J well be hut I think it was ... You see , Henry B. and Jerome Harris disagree on who created the idea of Ilemis.fair . I'm sure Henry believes he did; I'm sure Jerry Harris r,.;as the one r.-1ho fi rst suggested it . But flenry B. in his role doesn't knot·! -v;here he gets his ideas: he may have read them or created them in the middle of the night so he honestly felt it was his idea . From his Congressional viewpoint, he thought of this Fair in terms of it being of economic benefit for San nntonio . Saw it, I think, as being a catalyst between our T>Olarization problem .. . the r·.rest Side and the North Sicle . nnd he saw it, also, as part of his dream that San Antonio 1-1ould be a bridge bet~.;een Latin America and the United States . So there wer e many positive ideas . I rvould say that !lenry B .... it v1as probably Ilenr!J B. plus the establishment reoTJle 'i'Tho also bouaht the idea. They knew that something had to be done to project this city forward . r·Te r-.rere somnolent; we t-Jere on the back burner; we were _just sitting there doin<; no thin<; . And r•le -v;ere polarized . C•lal ter McAllister , I believe, and others have said that one of the truly great benefits of Hemisfair 1968 was that people who had never really communicated r-vi th each other before began to do so .. . for the benefit of the city . I think that's its legac~1 . M: In my conversation tvi th .Nr . Harris, he has a big Hemisfair file, he gave the iriea of the name, etc. hut he said he did not have the clout to get it ant]vlhere out of the idea area . So he said he har? to go to Washington on business; he dropped his ideas on Jlenry B.'s desk; he r-;ent off to NEf1!1AN 21 . New York; he tvas gone on a business t rip for six ~veeks , f'hen he got hack, Henry Gonzalez had already been to San Antonio , talked to his pal Sinkin , and somebody else . (he has three staunch supporter s here according to Hr . l!arris) And those men had picked up the ball . N: Probably Zachry , Sinkin and possibly r:aines , because Gaines was an important i nfluence at r~'OAI , radio and TV . Because he was doincr editorials in those days . Gaine.c: was the only tvro-ti me president of the San Ant onio Chamber of Commerce . lie was the one who realltJ was the impe tus behind the creation of the Kel l y Access Road which is not·! known as General lludnell Drive . Those were things Jim Gaines did as an important f i gure in the community . But without the assistance, or the help, or the support of the Zachrys and the Henr y B.'s and the rvalter McAllisters and the Tom Frosts , these things would not have happened for tile benefit of San Antonio . H: Look t-1hat it did . It spat·med a v.'hole netv grmvth of this city. Look at the river, dotvn town . N : There isn ' t an undertvriter , and I can ' t give you the precise nul'lber, but I would sat} anywhere from 2 ,000 to J,non people tvho put up the initial 6 . 5 million . They rvent to the second unden1ritinq and the third underwri ting. Some of these people contrihuted maybe from 500 to 1,000; others, 20 ,000 to 50,000 to 100 ,000 b ut not a sinc;le one of those underwriters who is around todal.J considers that a bad investl'lent . You can go and check with anqone . They think, though they lost a buck or two , that it t'las the single best investment they ever made bec,ause: a. it got people working together; b. it put San Ant onio on the map; c . nothing that is here today, or ver~ little of it, ~Mould have come at this time had it not been for Hemi sfair . You know vle had the Year of the Blahs; tt·!O years of the Blahs , which directly followed Ilemisfair . f'.'e'd been out all night to a Nev.r Year ' s party; NEf•T,'.fl!N 22. everyhody t¥as pooped out; the thin~ Fas over t·•i th and all these ~'''lS, these marvelous people on the Boaril oF J'lin'!ctors ann the others r.-rho han worken , had to go ~ack to their jobs . The11 ' r? heen snenr7ina niaht ann ilay at the P.:::~.ir . Not onl11 involveil t·Jith it . Ped f'cCombs is a factor in this ann TJoh .T?oth is a Factor in thi s. Peonle r•1ho -iust took time out From their enterprises to make sure the thina vrorked . r·re]J, naturallt! For tt·'O or three 17ears after the fair, ther1 had to make a livin~: the11 harl to recanturA the til"le the11 hail lost; a tJear , six months , maybe tt-ro 11ears or loncrer . And the tines beaan to catch un t·Ji th us; the 8un Belt syndrome . Jlnd f.o'e ro~eren ' t readlJ for it . !1: f-Te sure VTerAn ' t . N : lind that's why I said in '7f1, in that nacrazine article , at that tine there Fere still neople t·'ho said "':'here'.c:; croincr to be no nof.'mtof.om net., hotels, this c i ty v.•on't ]le revitAlized." ll.nd I saiil "To hell r·rith it. Tt t<'ill. I can ' t tell 11ou specificallr7 r,,htl r11t I knor.-1 it ' s :roinr:; to barmen." Not that I have am7 special vision or anr1thin:.r o.f that nature, hut rmn coulil sense thinas.: rTOtl could see it !<'AS rroinrr tn hannen. c-o t·rhat /'>as .hapr)(=meil? Is ha.npenin~? 11 17ear ani! a halF a.r:tPr that article t•.'e ' vc CTOt four ner-r hotels huild_ir>rr anr'f a ci tr7 that is croinn to he al,le tn nush rirrht into the rutllre . . nut it r•1as !Tel"lis.r:Air that r'/i il it. "' · Sure. Vou r7on ' t J11ean A oeAr ann a !~al F? ~T: I t ' s 1°7°. It Fas ' 7<? I Frate this article, in 1\pril . n.!'., so it ' s been eiahteen nonths a:ro, there t·TAS no nosi ti ve nlanned hotel. Notv t here are Four! "· Look at us! It ' s -iust l'?arvclous . N: '!'herf:' is the •"arret and other !Jor·mtot·'n revelonment . Tverr1thina is happeninrr. -:r. ' · 1hcn 11011 t-:ere in the T"iilst of this anr Forl-in:r so hArd, hut seeinrr it NEWMAN 23 . close up, did it ever cross uonr minn , "What are we aoinq to do tvi th this l ovelq place after Hemisfair is over?" Did TJOU have any concrete i deas? N: .r was fascinated t-Tith the concept of the Pueblo Espanol in Barcelona Spain, which was the residue of Barcelona ' s Fair in 1928 . The 1028 world ' s fair in Barcelona t-lh i ch was held on Mont ,Jrzich which is right i n the heart of the city . Well , the Fair was held there . The one sin~l e remaining positive evidence of that Fai r r<1as t he l ittle Spani s h town , Puebl o F.spanol . This had ra t her an ingenious thought ; they had cons t ructed a villaqe , a Spanish village , wi th a square, streets , and alleqs and houses and everything and each one of these houses was a replica of a home of a famous Spaniar d . No matter fl•hat period of tine he livea i n whether i t t-1as a Velasequez Ihaiiez or whether it was a poet, or a oolitician or tvhatever. But this Fhol e thincr was rebuil t. llnil fiFt y years l ater, it is still the most, one of the l"los t vital parts of the cittJ of Rar cel ona , v.rhich is tvm million pornzlntion. Stmi'i'l!IS it is filled. 1111 oF these hriililinqs house artisans; therJ have people who produce relicrious materials oF one> kind or another; there ' s alv1ays dancing; there ' s always music; and so on . lf!l vision oF _oost Pair had been that that t·IOuld have heen a park tvith attractive .. . sort o f a combination Central ParJ· , combination Puehlo rsnanol, and a semi Tivoli in Copenhacren . NOT<' Tivoli took 2nn tTears to qo so when people tell me that HemisFair is a ifeail duck . The hel l i t i s . PJeeif v.•ill c r ea t e what Hemisfai r vofill eventuallq hecome . f'lhat has happened is that with these netM hotels and revitalization of downtot<rn, Fhat those conventioneers and what those visitors to this cit!) rvant t·1ill happen . That ' s vlhat ' s aoinCJ to happen . So if not everr1thina that is nlanneil occurs as v1e woulr'f t·Jish it to . .. ani! there ' s Another thina . .C:ome people r~re hung up on the i(7ea that T!el"lisfair Plaza should he a revenue pronucinq center . f.•7ho sal.}s that the Hyr7e Pr~rk in Enalanr'! has to be a revenue prod11cina thina? Valuable real estate; flEf'T!·fliN 2 4 . but it ' s a people [>lace . r.en t ral Park in Ne'.'! York is probably the most valuable real estate in the '.'Torld hut it ' s a place r.-1here reople go . San llntonio ' s Central Park , .C:an llntonio ' s Hyde Park, San Antonio ' s big park should be Hemisfair Plaza . The fountains should be put back to work , i t should be illuminaten , it shoulif he a place r·;here people couln sit , !<.'here chil r:"ren conld plaq , or huu food , r;..rhere you coulri enjoy yourself. Recause when these conventioneers and visitors come to to~tm, anr'l the men are i n these meetinqs , the r;.Ji ves are going to t ake t he children to the r iver, they ' re croing to go shopping, hopefnlly TTernisfair Plaza will c;ravi tate tor·rard one of those economically viable centers as far as people are concerner1 . ~1: Mr. Ilarris said that his idea , Fhich nohoc17 paid ant] attention to , !'Jas to have it an ethnic place . Have the Germans take one of tlle historic houses and sell fooif , ma rrhe have their music and things . N: Let me tell you my greatest disappointMent. That ties in ~vith the restanrant . The onlrJ reall~1 serious arc;rument I ever har7 wi t h llllison Peerr; . Those buildings that were lmil t ror the International Pavilion had such severe restrictions placed on them . . . and all theu r-1ere, reall~!, ~''ere r!ai ry barns, the'} t-.'ere slantin~ rooEs , open fronts . Many of the countries r•ranteif to nut their or.,n facaoes on these l>tlildinc;s to make theM into a Gernan schl oss or a 8,nanish colonial ar7ohe or a Ja.TJanese Shinto shrine or r.-Jhatever hut I coulr!n ' t r!o that because the architectural comJI'Ii ttee wouli! alloF nothing to mer~e above the ceilincr line. :11: T·lhy rvas that? N: Heats the hell out of me . That ' s why I was still arquing rd th PeerrJ about that . Pf : You talk about Allison °eerl1 . r·.rasn ' t O' Neil Fori!, noone Powell , in on that? NF.fvMAN 25 . N: They t<rere the original consul tin9' ar chitects but Allison Peery tvas the staff architect . M: T•Tho did the TOt-!er? N: That was Boone Pov1ell . Darrah Lyda built it . It was Powell and Ford. They resigned, of course . ~!: Getting back to those what we called tempor ary buildings , I understood they were desi9'ned to be purely temporary . And that the only restrictions ~.rere that they must be fire proof . N: That 's vThere the mistake was. You build a brick dairy ])arn, how the hell can that be temporar y? I f you had put up a quonset hut, that t•tould be different . My point was that those brick structures ... not-t when those countries that invested in those things , putting in the floor, doing all their or.rn interiors , they should have been allor,red to put in •.• to deal with the front of that dam thing r-1hat they wanted to . M: I'm terribly interested in this thing . You see , I office at the Institute and I'm on Ilemisfair grounds a lot for lunch etc . f•!hat do you think about a dovmtown University camrus? N: It's limited; it has no area for growth . f.1 : It doesn't get people down; just people going to school . But the present plans nOt·t . .. they ' re taking in more and more buildings. Then of course, there ' s the University of Mexico who has its University here and the Cul tural Center . Then we ' ve got t he Federal Courts Building . N: You ' ve got the Ilayes Production Company in the old Telephone building, the whole I nternational area bordering on Alamo Street committed to UT8A for Continuing Education. There isn ' t much space open left . David Straus, for example, who deserves credit as a good solid Director , wants to see those overhead walkways taken down . They really serve no practical purpose . The!J were designed as people expressv1ays during the Pair so that NEfVMAN 26 . you could get from one end of the Fair to the other without having to elbow your -v1ay through crot,tds . Now they are deteriorating; they don 't need to exist . The lagoon is a question mark . The chances are the best thino to i!o is level the 'Vlhole thing; fill in c:mri place some artificial ponds or small water areas just for fountains, or whatever, to brighten it up . rvhat we really need to do is 'i!•ipe out that double level which doesn 't have any reason for being at all . H: Yes . It is so uglifying. N: I don 't want to turn it into a parking lot . That's the one thing I want to avoid above all thi ngs is for it to become asphalt . It ' s got to be grass, trees, flowers and keep the old structures. H: The present plan ..• I don't know -vthich number it is because ... it is certainly one of many, is the .Bechtel, Larcade plan at the moment . That is a combination of public and private investments. N: Whatever happens is, the city of San Antonio, a governmental agency, should not be running I!emisfair Plaza . It should he put into the hands of free enterprise . M: One of their proposals has been, in the face of all these hotels going up, that there should he an inexpensive, low cost I'lotel sitting over there facing I3o-vtie . .. N: r'lhat they're talkinq about is taking the old Plaza Dinner Theater which before that was the Abrazo Club and tvhich is structurally designed as a parking structure and turn t hat into a l'lOtel . N: For people vti th kids who can ' t afforri to pa~1 $50, $6() a day, that sounds sensible . !1r . 7.achry, for one is very much against that idea . N: I 'm not for it because I think that structure -v1ill eventually be, hope_ fully , shops and houtiques or -v•hatever or remain parking. It ' s certainlr1 NEWMAN 27 . less ugly t han a flat , asphalt parking lot. r•le need that kind of parking . !1: Mr . Harris , in sort o .f reasoning out loud on his thoughts of after Hemisfair ~..rere that: a convention comes into town; usually it ' s three days . The first night they'll go on the river for dinner; the second night they1ll probably go over to the market .•• El Nercai/o; the thi r d night , they don ' t want to go back to the river ... he thinks it would be nice i f they coul d go t o llemisfair and maybe have a Chinese meal or a Japanese meal or ... N: They coul d do that anywhere in town . As these new hot els go up, within two blocks surrounding evert; hotel new ann fresh things are going to happen. There ~..rill be new restaur ants , there •.-~ill be new shopping , so the center city itself r..ri ll become expanded as a consequence . Jlf: And isn ' t this great! N: Because excellence breeds excellence . Right? M: Yes. So good. N: Every old building and every crudi/y shop is going to be upgrai/ed . It ' s just like ..• I sit there and watch t hat Dullnig building . . . r·rhere the Beef Baron was . So here ' s !1cDonalil ' s coming; thel) 're not dumb . They ' re not putting golden arches there . Theq 're 'V!Ood panelling, ceiling fanning it; Baskins Robbins is going in; Ano so !JOU ' re getti ng r·1ha t Jerry is talking abo ut what woulil ultimately end up on Hemisfair but it ' s going to be done by private business tvhich says, ''f-!ey, this is not onl~J qooa business but it ' s classy ." And this is what has to happen . H: I heard the other day that they have conventions booked already to t he year 2,000 in t he face of this hotelling . ·N: They knerv, the Marriott knew that they are 1n percent ahean of their bookings predictions through 19Bn. So if they are 40 percent ahead, 1-1here in the hell are the rest of the people going to go? So "'e need t he net·! hot els . Center City i s going to t ake on its mvn character; -v1hat ' s happening NEf'lf1AN 28 . in Alamo lleights; ~vhat ' s happening in all the new livi ng communi ties out there is good; the economic gravity , the livint;r gravity is centered toward the northeast, north-v;est, but !Temisfair Plaza itself is (]Oing to be surrounded }ly this . You knot-T 1 lean out of one of !1artha Bnchana.n ' s hotel windows of the Plaza. Nacional and look down Alamo Street and my gorl , we have an avenue! r-.re never had an avenue before. Now we've got a big city avenue; very attractive. r~: It sure is and it ' s ~oing to be l'lore so . N: Looks s uper looking down to the left; over to the right there ' s nothing shabby about neethoven Hall; the opening to Hemisfair gets a little tacky there but you get dot·m to the Convention Center . r•!ell all that gravity is going to shift around to !7emisfair Plaza . I know it ' s (]Oing t o happen . !J : One beautifrzl plus is the Institute of Texan Cultures. That ' s flourishing . N: That's ... v.rell , my ~oil •. . it ' s not only a great thing but Fe have the riqht person runninq it; we have the right f1eople involveri provic7inq this i ntegral thread bet1-1een the present and the past. It's clone rd th taste . It ' s j ust a little starter . One of these days there ' s going to have to be more room for the Institute of Texan Cr!l tures . One of t hese days , if ,lack ttaguire ' s dreams come true, a John Connally idea, ~·1e ' re gainer to have a Texas Hall of Fal'ie . rre ' re going to have the busts of great Texas heroes.: we ' re going to be able to push a button anrl hear a little bit about them; you ' re going to be able to bm1 books about them; And that ' s going to happen. You can ' t do it til J.:Llm moves somet·.rhere else; they ' 11 probably rJove over to whe1·e channel •1 is nov.' . . . llll of these things rlon ' t happen because of a maste1· plan . AntJthing that exist occurs because a: i ts need . The more action there is, the f'lore need there is and the J>eople tvho are involved NErVMAN 29. in creating the need are the neople who are in the right place at the right time . M: Success breeds success. N: Of course . And in time, give us another ten years r-Ti th our young, vi tal, energetic ne~v citizens . Give us the willing cooperation, participation of our older families who have a respect for our traditions , our heritage, and you thror'/ all these people together and I ~!ant to tell you that I just don't have any doubt that San Antonio will be , not only one of the great places to live, but a joy for other people to visit . And something A~ericans are goi ng t o be proud of because there's no stopping it and all of it goes right back to I!emisfair ' 68 . N: It really does , doesn ' t it . N : It really does. That ' s point zero for the development . .. M: And all kinds of the people that you have mentioned did it. l'1: People talk about it. And I don't know of a person tJTho ~,•as involved in the Fair going around and taking credit for rvhat fvas done . Because we all knotJ! that anything that was done couldn 't have been done rdthout terrific staff people . But on the other side, a terrifically marvelous responsive civilian community r-1ho got to helieving that t his could happen; were proud of their city; who volunteered their time; ~ve could call them any time. Well, take a Patsy and a Marshall Steves. We ' d get in a bind and we'd need to entertain a visiting dignitary or something; we ' d call Patsy on the phone and she had freezers loaded with stuff ani! first thing you knew you tvere entertaininq in her home . This was happening in other homes JJut Patsy and !1arshall J.mre extraordinarlJ. Not only that, they could push buttons for us. If we ran out of high level local people, the five or six who were executives of the Fair that were hosts for visiting dignitaries, you could pick up the phone, they 'd drop ever~1thing and come right dmm. N~~~AN 30. Bill Sinkin was unbelievable: he ' d come there at the drop of the hat to greet somebody; to make sure it worked. It was sensational. M: There's one more thing I want to ask. I've been interested because I've been close to advertising for so long, there ' s been an awful lot of criticism that the t4hole thing would have been a lot more successful had we had more sophisticated advertising. Do you agree r-1itlJ that? N: r.Yhat I ~r1ould say is this: and heaven help me for talking badly of the dead, but Irv f;Teinman t.,ras over his head in that job . I think we were too conscious of the press we got at home rather than making sure that people within a 1, 000 sqaure miles area of San Antonio kner-1 where the Fair tvas and what was happening. We started to do that later in the game but we should have had it earlier. You know tve didn't need to concentrate in getting on t he television and in the newspapers in 8an Antonio •.. that was going to happen . rvhat t'le needed to do 111as to embark on a very successful campaign that t•Jould have solicited more people . But you see, that realllJ is not the problem. rve came very close to the prediction o.f the Econol"lic llssociation forecast of 7.?. million people . We had 6.5 million , in spite of extraordinary rainy April, Hay and ,June; in spite of the assassination of Robert Kennedy; the assassination of Martin Luther King; and in spite of the fact, Walter McAllister would draw your attention to this, this tvas the period where center cities tvere being ravaged by internal revolution, by conflict in the streets. People were not leaving home. They were concerned about traveling, not travel, but leaving their home . Because the Detroits, the Clevelands , and Ner-1ark , Netv Jersy, and major cities in the United 8tates, r-Tatts 1 tvas happening at this time, so this l•las a period of social revolution 1-1hich put a damper .•. Now, what I rvant to say is this: 96 acres can only hold so many people. Curiously enough, when I look back, there ' s almost a magical for- NRf.vJ:1AN 31 • mula that prevailed . f.fontreal had a thousand acres; rve had a hundreil acres; their 150,W)(} da!Js t</as our 45,ano da~;s ... give or take a fev1 thousand . Their 25o,nnn dn.ys was our 25,00(} daqs. In other wori!s take ten and multipltJ i t ... right? Their biqqest day vtas something in the neighhorhooi! of close to a million people; our biqqest datJ vTas 96, ann people. .But when you I]Ot close to capacity in that increase, then the ,,,heels ber:rin to come off. You couldn ' t empty the (_Jarbaqe; Deople got inpatient: they couldn ' t see thinr;rs; you had to vtai t in line . So there is a point when every person needs so much breathing, tvalking and air space . And t/OU defeat your r>urpose tvhen you try to cram too many people in the phone booth is r.rhat i t realltT al'lOunts to. N: As far as I was concerned, the whole charm was because it was small . N: The days you ever went to the Fair were when there were 35 or 4n,oon people there. lfultiply the 168 days of the Fair and 4n,ono you mir;rht come out all right . You come pretty close to your 7 .2 million . !1 : There ' s another thing I want to ask you . 13eing an outsider on this, I ' ve only heard gossip and things , I heard that the reason ninqwall vTas f ired, or left, or something was because he di dn't get along with the locals and I ' ve heard it said it was too IJad he left, he could have done so much for publicity and that sort of thing . Is that true? N: There's good and had in all situations . It is vertJ difficult for an outsider to become attuned to the intracacies of the politics of this city or any other city . I think that Dingt.rall, somehow or another, through his fault or whatever, lost the confidence o _F the executive committee . As far as they Tttere concerned , things vtere not going along the t-latJ they should . And Dingwall, curiously enough, althour:;h a very able person, did not reflect t'lell when he was on his feet and talking . He seemed to create an aura of uncertainty or nervousness or t·•hatever although that tvas not true in one on one or in a group or somethi ng like that. This was the question , ultimatelq, NEflMAN 32 . .• . you see, he had a different situation in Seattle. He had a basically v1hite population ; he had basically a high income population; and the grounds they operated on did not begin from scratch . They got the area; the plumbing was in, they didn ' t need air conditioning , theq operated from what had been basically an established foundation on which to build a Fair . San Antonio had to go through the trauma of the Urban Renewal program, the Press-about people being evicted, the emotion about t he old houses, the trees . All of those kinds of things were foreign to Dinq~-rall. He just simply did not understand why the movers and shakers couldn ' t just snap their fingers . You knmv, we still live in a democratic society and you have to get a majority on your side before you could get anything done. So he didn ' t understand. So here v1e are, we sit geoqraphically, a Demo crat state, but philosophical l y Republican . rve ' re conservative . H: rle really are . N: And that, he couldn ' t understand. An invisible fault line runs riglJt dm·m through San Antonio- the South ends and the West begins . There's the tradition of the South: the old families, the conservatives; then there's a new kind of conservatives in the Western tradition which is clear eyed , blue eyed , shoot the son of a bitch if he steals my cow, just instant justice, all that kind of thing and then mixing into the midst of all this, the t'fexican vii th the Spanish traditions , the revolutionary heritage and everything else . Stir this all around and how the hell can you count the politics out? !1: I have never heard it said that tvay . That's great; I love it . N: Well, don 't you think it ' s basically true? H: Sure , it's marvelous . N: f'ihy should anybody be sur prised at the Enrestes and the Ortizes and so on . They are the direct descendants of the revolutionaries out of Nexico. NEfvMAN 3 3 . The social justice people . How can you fault them? On the other hand, you ' ve got the cattle barons and the oil people: get off my land, you son of a bitch or I'll shoot you . . • right? Then you ' ve got the establishment with their pillared homes and their minuets and all the rest of it . They want things to be nice and orderly and neat while the violins are playing . N: Of course , this is t-1hat makes this such a fascinating city . N: But don't try to understand it on a day to day basis. !1: But you haven't got this in Dallas or Houston . N: No way . They haven ' t got anythi ng like this . That ' s why we ' ve got so much going for us because t-le ' ve got so much going against us . Because when you have challenges, you 're going to get better . Whenever everyt hing ' s rolling in somebody ' s di r ecti on , it ' s bound to get bad because the whole concept of a democracy is uncertainty . It ' s like walking on a tight rope : you 're going this way once; and this way the other tvay to keep your feet on the t•1ire . N: You 've got to pay attention . N: Or you ' ll fall on ~our face . M: Oh , Jack , I thank you for giving so much time . It ' s a marvelous interviet-t. END OF INTERVIE~·;r
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|Title||Interview with Jack Newman, 1979.|
|Interviewer||MacMillan, Esther G.|
|Description||Invited by Jim Gaines to work at HemisFair, Newman was designated as Director of Exhibitor Visitor Relations. He discusses the role of his deparment which included oversight of protocol, special events, foreign and commercial pavilions as well as changes after HemisFair.|
HemisFair (1968 : San Antonio, Tex.).
|Collection||Institute of Texan Cultures Oral History Collection|
Oral History Interviews
HemisFair '68 (The 1968 World's Fair)
San Antonio History
|Publisher||University of Texas at San Antonio|
|Digitization Specifications||24 bit, 200 dpi|
|Source||Interview with Jack Newman, 1979: Institute of Texan Cultures Oral History Collection|
|Resource Identifier||OHT 394.6 N551|
BEXAR C()UNTY HIST()PICAL COM.'1ISSI()N ORAL HISTORY PR()GRAM INTERVIErv v!ITll : Nr . Jack Newman Interviewer: Esther MacNillan Date : September 12, 1979 . Place : Nr. Newman ' s office at the San Antonio Light Publishina Company JvT: Jack, the Flexar Countr:J Historical Commission nral History Program has underr-1ay a Hemisfair project. The intent is to record for posteritr:J as many persons as possible who played some part in San Antonio ' s Hemisfair ' 68 . I ' d like you to tell me r"hat ~<'aS your title and ~then you came on the scene . N: Esther, I arrived in 8an Antonio in March 1966 from Europe • •. Germany . I caPle here at the invitation of .lim Gaines, r,.;ho was then vice president and executive director of the Fair . At anr:J rate, Jim and I . • . I 'm not going to bore you rdth the details . •. had known each other for twenty years ~<.rhen I r..ras with NBC in New York. He t-.'as my boss at fvEAF in New York. He had come to German!}, before he _joined J!emisFair , roJhen he ~;as runninq r·TOAI radio and television, as a meml>er of Railio F'ree F:urope' s Crusade for Preei!orn. The sister station of Radio Pree rurope r,,as _Radio Liberty . I ~1as the deputl] director of Radio Liberty, rvith headquarters in Munich . And our mission, of course, to broadcast to the Soviet l!nion . I hacl gone to a cocktail part'] that Radio Free Europe har7 had in the Rathouse in Munich . And there, after many, man9 years I met Jim . Jim was an extraordinar!J person; perhaps the Nr~.':flli'l 2. mos t extrAordinarrl inforr>all•l et?ucater ,.,erson t'Jat I 'u~ri ever net in my life. !Te har. never arar?lzated from !'i crh .cchool but yet he rear7 onniverously. Phen I tool: hi'f"l to u.tJ o f""icc :~t n};en'eisenfel,.-7 T·lhic"'' hu.ppener to 'he on the edge of t"Je olrJ air fieln r·'!Jere Cha'f"lberlain r>et .'!i tler in the !"ar~o us "Peace in our tine " compact, anr in Far.t, this Tl'as the olil air[lOrt ter!1- inal tvhere r··e r·.1ere operatinrr . ~f: T-That r·ras the nane o ~ tha t place? .~!: 0herr·.reisenFeln. M: You can see r.rhr1 I rvoulrn ' t knoT·' hor' to spell it! N: Being a historrl bu FF, ~e f•'aS .t:asci nater'? vith t·!hat r told him of the lore of that particular rerior. '·'e a l so took '!-JiM tn thP nkto'1erFe,c;t. At t'Jis ti!1e :·re hac been sore thirteen •1cars al1ro ar7 And rre !"icmrer1 thAt r·Te r·ranterJ to coJ7le h one . J.im then _nroroser? t"'at r corne l>Ack to 8an l!ntonio ;qnr be =llli eil rl'ith hil'l i n the 'hroo.r?castina. or>era t:ion T1f"rc . In the meAntime, r·T()JJ.I had been sold. Jim, ~vho had had a very early role in the concept of JleT:Jisfair, was asJ~cd, invi tel? , or persua.}e,l , by the Eoarr' of Tlircctors to bccoMP Fxecutiv ·e Director o~ !!enisfai1· , r·1hen r.ucn Dinc;_mal l, t·1l10 'Jac7 7•een the Executive Director of the SeattlC' Fair, (!·.hich t·;as really the prototy11c of J!enisfair) resi!Jnec anc~ le!'t . . SulJserruently I receiveC. a telephone call !'rom Jin am? ca"~'e to .ru.n J',ntonio . Came first on an explorator!l trip u.nr1 as happens in so rTJany cases, t/OU r?evclo.rJ an afFection or l ove af'cair cor a place> an<7 this rrra.h;;Ac1 us . !! : !!acl ~~ou ever J>een in C:an llnton. i o l:>eforc? .'.': !lever .'J.ad been in .<:;an llntonio beFore . Never even knerv t·.'here it t·.:as . I kneF it r-1as in Texas. Jim said he ncedec? an executive assistant. So my job in 1 9GG t·.ras to be e:.;ecutive assistant to JiT:'. After just a .fC'I/1 nonths , it became very visil•le to hi 'I anr? I aucss to me that the experiences NEf·'!fll.N ]. that I hac in dealincr Pith the P.l"'.~-assies in n!J previous role •·1it?: t!Je Depart·- nent of the ltrny D.nc the Air Porco in both Europe an·i tvi th the TD.r rast that t~ere should be somebody r,rho PAS responsi!.>l~"> for soliciting the forei'] n countries to partic.ipate in I!enisfair. .rc:n r,ri thin a fer.; months of T"'IJ arrival , I t!as f.esignatcd nirector of International Relations . :t: That's hot-r you got that ! In this article that tlOtl ~>'rote for Ean /lntonio !·~agazine it calls you njrector o+" rxhibitor Visitor Relations . Did you get that later? ll: Yes . This is somethin~ that ~erlla_ns you're not a•-.rare of: In li.pril or maybe l!ay, t:ithin one month or six tveeks after the Fair opened, .I in Gaines resignec1 for the second tiT"'e . l!e han resicmer7 once beFore t-!hich happened six !'lonths after I arri ver' in San lintonio because of a particul ar encounter he had r·.ri th .c:cna tor Yarboroug!1 on an airplane . Jim resignee?. I thought, ".'fy qooriness, here I've come 4,rJnn or s,nnf) niles to San Antonio and the guy v1ho hrought ne here is r;one. " Fut r1arshall Steves, Paul Ho-v.rell and Tom Frost and sone of the others asked if I would stal.J , r.;hich I did, and continued in that role . llt that time , then, the r:xecutive !'ice President anc Secretary became Frank :•,1nrlpelli I r-lho !vas Jim r;aine , s de pUtT../. The Roarc1 rer.1ained intact anc? ,Jim' s role tvas filled by Frank :•tanupelli. ltnd then some nine months or a year, I 'm sorrrJ I don ' t have the precise til'le frane, <7im r;aines v'aS asked to cone bacl:, r•rhich he riiri . M: ·~o asked him? u: It r·Jas on the recoT1JTlenrla tion of the Foarr?. T don ' t think f.lr. ZA.chr:J was very please<1 r·rith this because l1r . 7A.c.~rtJ hA.s kind of a universal position vis a vis the entire col'lr.1uni ty anc? l.,e h'AS An onponent of Jim ' s returning to the Fair anr! as you ' 11 recall, .•rr . Zachrq >-'aS chairrnan of the Boaril, Dill Sinkin tvas Vice Presi c7ent, vice chair!'lan of the Roarc7 and Harshall Steves vras President of the Jlemisfair :Joard oF Directors. '·7hich rievelopec1 ;JEW!llN A since the very tiT'Ie, bacl: in the early days nrior to my arrival, solici tinr;I the support of the state r;fOVernment . I 'm sure this is not apocryphal but I think this is true; there t.•as a meeting anr-1 of course, John Connall q , who was governor of the state and Dill Sinl:in h'