INSTITUTE OF TEXAN CULTURES
ORAL HISTORY PROGRAM
INTERVIEW WITH:
DATE:
PLACE:
INTERVIEWER:
Laverne Gersch, Wendish - Folklife
Festival
August 1, 1986
Institute of Texan Cultures
Oral History Office
Esther MacMillan
MacM: Can you start out again and tell about the early be­ginnings,
o f where they were , and East Texas, and stuff like
that?
G: Okay . In East Germany.
MacM: East Germany.
G: Okay. The forefathers came from the southeast corner of
East Germany, from Bautzen is the bigger town, which kinda
would be the so-called unofficial capitol of the Wendish people .
And they lived along the Spree River. It was a canal area and
the canals are still there today.
MacM: How do you spell Spree ?
G: Spree? S-P-R-E-E, Spree River.
MacM: Spree, uh-huh.
G: And the area, they called it the Vail. Along the
River, they called it the Spree Waldo
MacM: Spree Waldo
G: S-P-R-E-E Waldo
MacM: Okay. And - so many of the emigrations that came over
here were caused by political problems. Did the Wends run into
Gersch 2.
MacM: political problemsj with depressions?
G: Part of it was political and part of it was religion .
The Prussian government kinda wanted all of the people to be­long
- to go to the - National Church of Germany. And part of
it was adventure, I guess. Everyone heard of - people were
emigrating to a different country and if you had money and -
it was the thing to do.
MacM: And the people who had adventure in their soul .
G: They kind of went (laughter)
MacM: to get to Texas.
Okay. Then your people came and landed in Galveston?
G: Through Galveston, not New York.
MacM: And not Indianola.
G: I think Indiano l a - was before. Our emigration started -
the earliest in 1853 and from there on.
emigrations were earlier.
MacM: Were earlier on.
I think Indianola
In reading about the Wends, there was a minister. Was
that Kelian?
G: Rev. John Kelian.
MacM: And he had come over early and fallen in l ove with the
place, isn't that right? Wasn't he kind of a .
G: No . He had gone by the letters that he had gotten from the
earlier ones that came. He wasn't one of the earlier ones.
Okay. The earliest ones were the ones who came in 1853,
which inc luded my great-great grandfather, Christopher Krause.
Gersch 3.
G: These people wrote bac-k how beautiful Texas was. And
then what makes the Wends unique, they formed a Lutheran con­gregation
in Germany and called , as their pastor and leader ,
Rev. John Kelian. And as the Lutheran congregation chartered
a sail ship the Ben Nevis and came across in 1854.
MaCM; Was that a sailing ship? Sure.
G: That was a sailing ship. We ' ve got pictures of the sail
ship down there in our booth.
MacM : You know, when you think about how uncomfortable ..
G: How awfully miserable.
MacM: And so long.
G: We went - last summer we went to Galveston and I work so
much with our Heritage Society and our Museum out there. And
so we went through the Alisia just to see what it must have
been like in going down in that hole. It was about this time
of year, I guess, must have been about June or July. How hot
it was . Can you imagine all these people seasick and everything
MacM: Little kids .
G: Little kids crying and the voyage took six weeks. It
must have been just. . when my great-great grandfather came,
they got shipwrecked in Cuba. And so they lived in Cuba 'til
some German people from Galveston helped them and then they
also earned some money so they could get passage from Cuba to
Galveston. And my great-great grandmother had two small child­ren
and she was pregnant with the third on this journey.
GEOrsch 4.
G: To be shipwrecked - they lost all their possessions and
everything. And finalllcame to Texas with absolutely nothing.
MacM; Nothing.
G: Nothing at all. And the place that he settled - well,
he settled in the industry area. And so then, after John
Kelian brought his group to Serbin well, then he also came to
Serbin. And where he settled that land is still in the
Krause family.
MacM: Is it?
G: Yes, it is. In fact, I go by it every day.
MacM: You do? Where are you from?
G: Well, I live in the Serbin area. And we have a business
in Giddings and I work for the Museum - well, kind of on my way
to work, I'll skip by the Museum and see if everything's in
order - our Wendish Museum.
MacM: You do - in Giddings?
G: At Serbin. It's at Serbin. We've had our Museum now for
about six years - seven years. We have people allover the
world·i come in to see us.
MacM: What highway is that on?
G: It's on . Let's see . Okay. Like if you were
coming from Giddings you would go out 448 - the State Highway
and then you would take a right on 2239 and you would come
right by it. The Serbin Church is on any map. And if you're
not sure, you could ask anybody in the area and they would
know the direcuon.
5.
Ge r sch
MacM : Well, now, you have a Wendish Soc i ety. What is the
purpose of the Society, to keep the customs a live and . . ?
G: To keep the old customs alive and t o teach our children of
our heritage. Children and grandchildren . And we started
with five l adies that thought, well , "If we could do something
about our Wendish heritage." And they f ormed what they called
t he Texas Culture Club - Wendish Culture Club. And in 1971,
and we ' ve gone from those five ladies - we now have around
350 to 400 members, allover the State. We've got some in
Cali f ornia , Wisconsin - a sprinkling allover the country , and we
have some in Australia and some in Germany . And so , I feel -
I'm just real proud to represent this organization .
MacM: It' s quite wonderful , isn't it? Sort of unusual -
peopl e just don't know about t he Wends.
G: They don ' t. They r eally don 't. And we ' ve always got
people coming by to interview and - in fact , the Museum
coordinator and I did an i nterview for a Dallas TV station
here about four weeks ago. And they did kind o f - well, you're
familiar with the "Eyes of Texas". It was done by a local TV
stati on, but it was on the same principle as .
We ' ve got people coming - even if the Museum i s closed,
people are coming and looking at the old Serbin church every
day , all the time. And we ' ve got bus loads coming that will call
ahead of time and we will probably have the Museum open during
the week , you know, if a big group is coming .
Gersch 6.
MacM: Now, you are Lutherans, basically; is that right?
G: Basicall Lutherans, yes.
MacM: And you've pretty much stayed with the Lutheran Church,
is that right?
G: Yes, I would say that of the Wends that came to Texas -
of all the descendants - I would say ninety,nine-five percent
are Lutherans.
Some have, you know, through marriage and all and they change .
But the majority of them are still Lutherans.
MacM; The reason I asked was I interviewed a Polish lady this
morning and she said they stayed mostly with their church .
G: Yes. The church is very much a part of the Wendish life.
I think of the Polish, too. But they're very c l ose to their
church.
MacM: They cluster around the church . The Polish community
in San Antonio was right here on Hemisfair in early days.
And there was a church there and they clustered around their
church.
Your booth now, at Fo lklife Festival, is a very popular
one, isn't it?
G: Yes. People come from year to year and come by for our
homemade noodles and
MacM: Those noodles are the best thing I've ever ... And you
know , I was sitting here talking. . I got a big cup and
I brought it up here and I was eating away and one of the people
in the department came and sat down and he was telling me
something and I was listening to him and I tipped the thing
Gersch 7.
MacM ; over and .
G: Oh, my goodness, allover your dress .
MacM: Look it, I got it . it doesn't show.
Allover the front of my dress, honestly. A poor way to
use up that good chicken stock. The noodles are homemade
noodles?
G: Yes. And most of them - when you go down, you see some of
the noodles that are a little lighter colored .
MacM: What are the lighter ones?
G: They're from caged eggs (laughter). And the darker colored
ones are from yard eggs.
MacM : Your're kidding !
G: I think I had 85 pounds came from our own yard eggs.
And I had a lady make them in Giddings and so, she made them
from our eggs, and see, they're on the ground and they pick
all the green stuff and they even smell different when they're
cooki ng . They smell like eggs to me (laughter)
MacM: You know, there's a place in
G: But when you break ' em open the yolk it's just a real
golden, morning sunshine yellow, you know.
MacM: You can't get those much.
G: No . And you have a chicken that's free , even if they 're
penned and you feed they're just like cage eggs . You have to
have ' em where they're free and what we do, we give 'em some
shell corn ' cause we raise our own corn and stuff also . Give
Gersch 8 .
G: ' em shell corn and that makes someti mes pretty yolks and
that makes those beautiful noodles.
MacM: I l ooked at that and I thought
G: Uh- huh .
MacM: I picked one out with my hand and I - first I thought
it was onion - a piece of onion . I know it wasn 't onion. I
thought, "Why is that wh i te? " Isn't that interesting !
G: Uh-huh.
MacM : Well , they ' re cooked in chicken stock.
G: Cooked in chicken stock.
MacM : You make your own chicken stock , or did you use canned?
G: Well , this we had t o use canned because we couldn ' t pro-vide
enough for . Now when both of our sons got married,
our , uh - down there we still have the old Wendish style
wedding . Not the 3 day weddings we used to have . (laughter )
MacM: The Polish, t oo , do that.
G: But you have a b i g receptioni . a barbecue supper, and all ,
and beer usually and all , and , so anyway , when our oldest son
got marri ed , he married a Wendish girl. We had over 800 people .
MacM: My word!
G: And the bride's mother and I - we had all our own noodles and
stuff and we had our own stock . I s t arted in about January , o r
so , and I ' d cook an old hen, you know, and I ' d make chicken
stew and about half the stock I would put in the freezer in
plastic containers. And by the time August came, I had enough
Gersch 9 .
G: frozen stock and she did, too. And we used our own chicken
stock and we both raised corn. So, had all our fresh corn -
all of our own fresh potatoes, pickles - for all those 800
people. And then a year ago our youngest son got married, well,
we have - well, we have - we give our oldeason a big wedding
and we felt we needed to give the younger son also, you know, treat
him the same. But he married a girl - that - her mother
had problems, and so on and so forth. And the bride-to-be
even lived with us for awhile, before the wedding. And, so
anyway, I took care of all the noodles and everything for 600
people. So I'm glad I didn't have 13 kids like my grandmother
(laughter) .
MacM: Really! Isn't that wonderful! When you said you had
barbecue, what kind of meat was it, that you barbecue?
G: Okay. Now we had barbecued brisket. And we had some
people that do nothing - on the weekend. These two couples.
The two men would make the barbecue and the two women will
cook for 800 people. All we need to do was let 'em know how
much you need and have the stuff there. And if they need
help, they'll let you know. And the barbecue men - they'll
get somebody to help cut it up then. But the cooking, they
do all by themselves.
MacM: And you served barbecue brisket and noodles?
G: Noodles and potato salad, and usually beans and slaw and
pickles and bread; and either a canned peach or something and
then all the neighborhood, everybody, brings cake and we set
all the cake out for dessert.
Gersch
MacM: It's a handful of work .
10.
G: And ever ybody around when they're invited to Lee County
wedding, they never miss it. (laughter)
MacM: I believe it, I believe it. When you say Lee County,
that's Giddings area - around there?
G: Yes. Giddings. Giddings is the county seat in Lee County.
It would be like LaGrange , when they have a big wedding , they -
the Czechs, have the big wedding also . So it would be the
Giddings, LaGrange area.
MacM: Polish . Is Giddings near LaGrange?
G: About 20 miles north of Giddings.
MacM: Oh , now I know where it is.
END OF TAPE I, Side 1 /~m;I1C\-te ...
TAPE I, Side 2
MacM: Now, tell me about .. to wind up this thing now .
your booth here at the Folklife Festival, when I went to buy
those wonderful noodles today, I saw some heavenly looking
drum sticks, chicken drumsticks. What are those?
G: O.K . We tried that this year and we always wanted to have
a meat item. The chicken drumsticks was something people
would have. . they would have family get-to-gathers and
stuff, they would go out and usually barbecue chickens be­cause
it was easier ; took a shorter time if they made it for
a day or so. And then they would have the special sauce
they would cook with it. Instead of doing the whole chicken,
we stayed with the drumsti cks because they are easier to serve.
Gersch 11.
MacM: They look awfully good . I haven't bought one yet.
Have you got a special sauce?
G: It's Mrs. Knippa's; the chairman 's mother made the sauce
and it's very good.
MacM: Are they barbecued or baked, or what?
G: They're put on the pit and with the mesquite charcoal .
this is even made in Fayette County. The mesquite is real
charcoal , not these briquett es.
MacM: No. That's so much better, too.
G: Anyway , we tried it this year to see how it would go.
MacM : Do people like 'em?
G: Yes. They've been very good. We consider it a success
and it's only Friday afternoon.
MacM: Now you ' ve got the noodles and the drumsticks. What
else have you got down there?
G: We've got the Koch Kase sandwiches .
MacM : That's German, isn't it; not particularly Wendish?
G: Well, there's a Wendish name for it. All of the Wends
made the Koch Kase.
I don't know actual l y , what the Wendish name would be for
it. They all made it. In fact, my grandmother. . I could
come to her house any time and she felt like she wasn 't ready
for company and she had her Koch Kase there. The one that we
Gersch 12.
G: serve has the caraway seed in it. A lot of them prefer
the one without the caraway seed in it. My grandmother made
it without the caraway seed.
MacM: Isn't it kind of a thin cheese; it's kind of runny,
isn't it?
G: Well, if you let it get runny . . it's a real mild,
thin cheese. As it gets cooler, it gets firmer and then you
can slice it.
MacM: What else have you got down there?
G: We've got the dill pickles.
MacM: Are they specially different?
G: What would make 'em different, I guess, is they're made
with grape leaves and grapes and dill.
MacM: Grape leaves and grapes?
G: Uh huh. I make all of my pickles that way. I've made
pickles for . well, we're married 30 years and I make
pickles every year and have yet to have a jar of pickles turn
white on me or spoil. I've never thrown a jar of pickles out.
MacM: I just got through interviewing the pickle lady. She
told me about grape leaves and the grapes and salt and then the
cucumbers, layered like that. She said that the grapes with
the grape leaves does something or other.
G: It works as a natural alum; the grape has alum i n it.
And alum . .
MacM: Makes 'em crisp. What kind of vinegar do you use?
Gersch 13.
G: I use a 90 grain canning vinegar.
MacM : That ' s what she said, a 90 grain vinegar.
G: You almost have to use a 90 grain to get ' em to penetrate
and you use a canning salt .
MacM : What's canning salt?
G: It ' s a canning and pickling salt. It doesn ' t have any
additives or anything like that , like iodine salt does or
anything like that .
MacM : Is it coarse?
G: It would be a l ittle bit coarser , I guess , than your
Morton ' s table salt . You buy it in one pound bags. It ' s a
white bag and that's what I usua l ly get for the
MacM: These pickles you ' re sell ing , you didn't make those?
G: No . Wa l ter and I grew about 3/4 of those, I guess.
MacM : Did you?
G: But Evelyn Casper put them on up . I work every day. I
pick the pickles early in the morning and in the evening . We
have severa l tractors and live on a farm. So we raillsed t~e~
and she put ' em all up i n jars. I think she brought 53
gallons to the Folklife Festival .
MacM: I 'm sure they'll all be gone , too .
G: They probably wil l by Sunday evening.
MacM: Do you have anything sweet down there?
G: No . We had tried streuse l kuchen . And one of the Wendish
sweets that is real popular is a cheese coffee cake . Or cuart (?)
kuchen. It starts the same way as our kuf kevin ( ?) . It
Gersch 14 .
,,1 G: starts with cottage cheese . To make the quarti.kuchen , you
cook it and you add l ike lemon, sugar, egg and different
things to it to make your topping, you put raisins on it.
And the streusel Kuchen is a mixture of cinnamon and
sugar .
MacM: How do you spell quar. .?
G: I don ' t know how to spell quark.
MacM: Quark?
G: Q-u-w-a-r-k? Does that sound right? I've never seen it
written .
MacM: When I transcribe it, I'll put a question mark. Now,
that's what you ' re selling?
G: No. That's what we would like to sell. We tried to sell
the struesel Kuchen one year but we didn't have enough .
Couldn't get e nough baked for that big a crowd. Like at the
church homecomings and stuff like that in the Lee County area
when the Ladies Aid, when they have their . they usually
have both . But for this big a group , we just can ' t do it.
MacM: People are curious about the Wends themselves ; they
like your food and I noticed there was a very attractive
woman in costume passing out recipes.
t hi s the recipe?
I think I got one . Was
G: No, this is a booklet, "Who are the Wends ". Here ' s the
Serbin Church. This is John Kilian. He was the leader that
brought the big group over in 1854. Here 's the museum before
we started. We need to take some more up-to-date pictures.
There's been much improvement. Here's the Ben Nevis - a sailship.
Gersch 15.
McM: That's nice. Who is Lennert? Ron Lammert?
G: He lives here in San Antonio. He's worked with the Festival
for many, many years . Lammert publications, maybe? Has he
done some work for you all , maybe?
McM: I don't know. The name is just so familiar to me.
When I get this transcribed , who knows when, I will put that in
with the interv iew. (the correct spe lling)
Now, is there anything else that ought t o go on this tape?
Oh, the costume you have on . Is that a typical Wendish
costume?
G: Yes. This is what they wore to the festivals and things .
Did you see my husband's hat when he walked in?
McM : Yes , like a stove pipe
G: The black top. That's what they wore when they had the big
Wendish weddings. They had what we cal l now , the best man -
the man in charge of the wedding was called the braschka.
And the braschka wore the top hat with the flower and all .
He was in charge of everything at the wedding. He made sure ;
he was kind of master of ceremony , master of everything . If
anybody was out of drinks, they went to the braschka . If they
were short on food, or this, or needed more chairs , it was up
to the braschka . He was in charge o f everything . He led the
bridal couple to the church and all. Usual l y , they would start
from the horne and the braschka would have a little prayer and
Gersch 16 .
G: sing a church hymn and then they would go to the church for
the ceremony . The braschka was in charge of all of this. That's
the kind of a costume he would wear for a special . That ' s
(Gersch) what they wore when they first started : the shawl, the
skirt with the apron .
For everyday they would wear a dark apron . This was a
dress-up apron .
McM: You ' ve got a shawl. It's white with embroidery and it's
got about a three inch lace ruffle all the way around the shawl .
G: The Wends were very fond of their handwork: crochet work;
embroidery work; tatting ; beautiful .
McM: You've got a blouse that has a kind of a ruching around the
neck.
G: The Wendish wore a white b l ouse underneath.
special meaning.
I t has no
McM : But underneath your white lace apron, you've got a red
cotton skirt with braid .
G: With the blue , the Wends liked blue and lots of flowers and
then the lace .
We have a huge ribbon case at our museum that used to be in
the Range store in Gi ddings and the Wends were very fond of
ribbons . When they had a wedding , they even decorated the horses '
bridles with ribbons and flowers and the buggies and a ll.
McM: Isn't that sweet! Have we done pretty much everything we
need to do?
Gersch 17.
G: Let's see.
McM: Do you have gatherings of Wends? Homecomings?
G: Well, Serbin is kind of the mother church of all of the Wends
because that is where they first settled and they do have a
homecoming , the day before Memorial Day every year , whi ch will
usually be the last Sunday in May. This year we made barbecue
and sold it by the pound. Everybody brings the trimmings and
stuff . Like in our family, I'll bring potato salad, do it the
day ahead of time because I'm always working at the church and at
the museum that day. My mother wil l bring a big pot of noodles,
my daughters-in-law will bring each a vegetable, sisters-in-law
will bring vegetables. We put it on the picnic table and
go down and get the barbecue out and put the barbecue out.
They barbecued 5 ,000 pounds of meat this past May . And by
12:30 or 1:00 every pound of it was sold .
McM : Is this Wendish peopl e mostly?
G: Mostly the Wends. Because they all come; children, grand­children,
great-great-grandchildren of their Wendish forefathers.
And they come back to Serbin for the homecoming.
McM: You know, you talk, you smile, you're pretty , you have a
serene look. You have a nice life, don't you?
G: I know it.
McM: You're living in a small town, there's something you're
vitally interested in, you 're busy. I would say you have a very
good life that many would envy .
Gersch 18 .
G: We live 12 miles out in the country on a farm. We have a
business in town. It keeps us busy. I really feel, especially
now being president of the Heritage Society, I have about three
full-time jobs. For the good of the Society, because it is a
big obligation, takes a lot of time. My husband and I run our
automotive business and we have the big farm. We have 400
acres out there with cattle, keep it going and all.
McM; And your children are married.
G: Both are married. We have two little granddaughters. Both
of our sons live out there on the farm. We gave them each land.
We kind of call it Gerschville out there.
We raised two sons and we enjoy those little granddaughters .
They're a whole different ball game from boys.
McM: Aren 't they though? You are so lucky they didn 't leave.
G: They enjoy the small town life. When you drive down the
road, everybody you meet in the morning, you wave and say, "Hi".
Living in Giddings, I enjoy being president of the Society.
People will come to Giddings. "Well, ask Luvern Gersch".
So they'll come by the shop. It's opened a lot of doors for me.
You meet people from allover. I had a lady come in from Cali­fornia
one day wanting some history. It's very interesting.
McM: You need to keep busy .
END OF TAPE I, Side 2, about 15 minutes.