THE INSTITUTE OF TEXAN CULTURES
Oral History Office
SUBJECT: Ethnic history – Asian Indians
INTERVIEW WITH: Rao & Rani Pemmaraju
DATE: 16 March 1998
PLACE: ITC
INTERVIEWER: Laurie Gudzikowski
TAPE 1, SIDE 1
G: This is Laurie Gudzikowski at the Institute of Texan Cultures, and I’m doing an oral history with Rao Pemmaraju and Rani Pemmaraju, and today’s date is March 16, 1998. I’m going to put the microphone down between Rao and Rani so that they can both talk. Okay, now, can you tell us when you first came to Texas and what job you were doing that brought you to Texas?
Rao: Well, we came to Texas in 1958, October. And at that time I was invited by the Southwest Research Foundation for Biomedical Research to join the research group to participate in a program of research in biomedicine. And this group at the Southwest Foundation for Biomedical Research moved from Rochester, New York, a couple of years before, and then I was associated with the group in Rochester as a Fulbright scholar. We had a very fruitful research accomplishment. And then after my assignment as a Fulbright scholar and research post-doctoral training,I went back to India and the group from Rochester moved to SanRao & Rani Pemmaraju 2
RAJ: Antonio. And they and I kept in correspondence with our results in research. And they just kept writing to me that why don’t you come and spend a few more years in San Antonio, Texas? At that time I was not very keen on coming to Texas, not knowing what to expect from Texas, but all we heard was in those days was mostly cowboys and this type of atmosphere. So I wasn’t sure, academically, if it is going to be fruitful for me to come. Nevertheless, the research group convinced me, and then offered me an opportunity to do independent research and at the same time contribute to the overall research group of steroid hormones. And so I said, "Okay. I will come." And then took an opportunity to spend – the idea of spending only two more...two years. That’s how we came in ’58. And then I joined the Southwest Foundation and then I was doing steroid hormone research, particularly in the area of biochemistry. And the research got very interesting and then the results have been very successful and we made some headway in an area which was totally new at the time. And so this stimulated me to continue year after year. But in the year 1964 they offered me an opportunity to stay permanently here since my research is very important to the group, and also I have been benefited also by my experience and knowledge in the area which I’ve been learning more and more in this field. So I said I will seriously consider staying here. So then in ’64Rao & Rani Pemmaraju 3
RAJ: we made the decision to stay, and then we built our house and then stayed in Texas. And ever since the idea of coming to Texas for two years continued forever. And I’m still here and currently I’m the senior scientist - and the highest position a person can reach at Southwest Foundation - and the chairman of the Department of Organic Chemistry. And my area is hormone research. And then in the area of steroid hormones I’ve been working for the last forty years. I have been able to contribute quite substantially in the field, and my work has been recognized worldwide and also contributed a lot to the advancement of steroid research..
G: Can you tell me where you were educated?
Rao: I got educated...my education was all in India. And I got my BS and Masters degree from ...[Name?] University in ...[Same name] India. And then I got my PHd from Calcutta University, Calcutta. And then same year the Fulbright Fellowships were announced, and then I was one of the early applicants of the Fulbright Fellowships. And then actually my group was the second group to receive the Fulbright Scholarship, to come to the United States for further research and advancement of science. So that was the year 1954. I was in Rochester, New York, I spent there two years and I went back. And then I was at the National Chemical Laboratories at...[location?], and from...[location?]. I spent there two years and I came to San Antonio. Rao & Rani Pemmaraju 4
G: Were you married at that time?
Rao: Yes. We...when I came to Texas, by then I’d already got married in India. And then when I came to Texas I came with my wife, Rani. Of course,it was very different for her because totally uprooting from one culture to the different culture. And also, interestingly, when we first came to San Antonio there was no Indian family – period. We are the only Indian family from India. There are...people there. But in those days, and all, it was very difficult for us to know culturally any ethnic groups of our interests and our liking – none! And the closest...if I wanted to meet somebody...is at...I had to go to Chicago or California, some place like that, but not in the Texas area. Here and there, a few people may come across, but very rare. I never saw anybody at all. But in San Antonio we live almost five years without any other family. Then I recruited another PHd to work in my group as a post-doctoral scientist. He came from India and then he worked with me for three years. He was the second family to work with...[inaudible] - in 1964 to ’67 he did. By then the Southwest Research Institute, a sister institution of ours, which was founded by the same philanthropist, Tom Slick, was very much active in applied research. In that applied research environment another family from Illinois, an Indian couple, came and joined the Institute; that was in 1967 or ’68. So that was Rao & Rani Pemmaraju 5
RAJ: the next family. That’s how we started.
G: Rani, could you say a little bit about what it was like for you when you first came to America? You...I mean your husband was working. Were you working? Were you at home with children?
Rani: I was at home with the children.
G: You don’t have to talk directly into the microphone.
Rani: Okay.
G: But would you like to say a little bit about...?
Rani: I was with the children.
G: How many children do you have?
Rani: I have three grown-up children.
G: But in 1958 when you came here they were...?
Rani: Yes. I had a seven months old child.
G: You had an infant.
Rani: And yes, that is her...and also to a totally different culture. And I had two boys later on, you know; they were all born here. And I’m always, you know, interested in raising my children in a very healthy, natural environment. Since there was nobody around here...so I am the teacher. I am the, you know, teaching them, you know, how to pray God and we set up a temple - a small temple in our own house. And I took part in the school activities, and things like that, and slowly things are changing.
G: So at the time, you were the person who was responsible Rao & Rani Pemmaraju 6
RAJ: for your children learning about their whole culture?
Rani Right! I am the one.
G: You were the one.
Rani Yes.
G: And did they learn...did you speak...what language did you...?
Rani I speak a language is called...[name?] language.
G: Did you teach your children that language as their first language? Or did they learn English as their first?
Rani: Uh, no they learned English. Is very hard when people are not at home, you know. So I consulted my pediatrician at that time, "So what can I do? It’s so confusing to me." And then he said, "Just live it and they’ll pick up on their own...words, you know; just leave it as such in a natural way." So I wish, you know, they could speak our language, but it did not happen.
G: And what religion are you?
Rani We are Hindus.
G: And you said you put together a temple in your home?
Rani Yes, yes. I raised my children in two cultures. I gave them values about our culture, our religion. And at the same time, they are in this mainstream of America, so, you know... My daughter, she’s in... If you want me to explain about my children, I want to tell you what they're doing. Rao & Rani Pemmaraju 7
G: Please.
Rani: My daughter she’s a very successful television journalist, and right now she is in New York, Fox Network, and she’s an anchor. And she graduated from Trinity University, and she worked in local KENS television as... Express and News...
G: Uh-huh.
Rani: And she moved to Dallas and then Baltimore, Boston; from there she moved to New York.
G: Big time.
Rani: Yes, yes. And I had a little boy, after the girl. The boy - the oldest boy - he’s a doctor and he’s a child psychiatrist and he’s specializing in child psychiatry. And there’s the little one and he’s the youngest one; he’s the baby in the family and he’s also a doctor. And he had medicine, so he is in St. Louis and he’s the one who is married. So the daughter is married, the middle one is not married yet.
G: You have grandchildren?
Rani: Not yet.
G: Not yet.
Rani: I wish I could!
G: You will I’m sure. [laughter]
Rani: Thank you.
G: Clearly, education is an important part of yourRao & Rani Pemmaraju 8
Rani: Yes. Yes.
G: ...important value for your children.
Rani: Yes. To me. To me. Because I’m a graduate; I’m a graduate and he’s - logic and other interests. I also have other interests, so there’s no way for me knowing that kind of limited situation; and we first moved in San Antonio, whatever that is best we tried our best. Without his help I cannot do it; without my help he cannot do it. That’s the way the children are now.
G: A real team effort.
Rani: Yes. Yes. Team effort.
Rao: And, of course, when the children were growing up... primarily to take care of the children and then give them a healthy, home environment so that they could...
Rani: Yes.
Rao: That’s why she not volunteer to work or anything like that. And she felt until the children were grown up and ready to go to college that her presence was needed at home; and she did that very well. And that gave them all the stimulation and then more of a home which normally expected. Once the children are gone and then on to their college, and when the mother was not needed that much, she then pursued her own other interests which she has. For example, she wanted to teach yoga, and so she got certified herself in a special training in the yoga certification and then she Rao & Rani Pemmaraju 9
RAO: offers yoga classes now for adult education in public schools as well as other places. And then teaches stress management and the yoga. And also she does a lot of community service. And then she was involved with the Witte Museum; she was an advisory board member for the Witte Museum. And she’s also very active in the Indian community. Now, of course, we have quite a number of Indian families... members are here. And she’s the public relations coordinator for the Indian community in San Antonio. And like that one, she focused her needs by working with the people, and then trying to help people. And then that’s more...[inaudible] these days.
G: When you first came to San Antonio, and you were the only Indian family in San Antonio, were you able to find the kind of food that you were accustomed to serving? Did you have it sent from India? What did you do?
Rao: Oh, that’s...I’m glad that you asked about the food because we both are born and raised in India with vegetarianism, and it’s very difficult coming to Texas. Everybody, of course, you know used to eating meat and particularly in Texas is a meat-growing country and all that. So it was very difficult. Nevertheless, luckily San Antonio happens to be a multi-cultural...even at that time, we used to get all the fresh vegetables and everything.
RAO: We used to go to public market and then get most of Rao & Rani Pemmaraju 10
RAO the stuff here. But what we couldn’t get here, in those days, we were getting from New York.
G: Ah! Of course.
Rao: And once a month or so we get the provisions, and they used to supply from New York. And that changed. And now almost every major city in this country now has an Indian grocery store.
G: And is there an Indian grocery store now in San Antonio?
Rao: Oh, yeah.
G: More than one?
Rao: More than one. And then they supply all the ethnic foods and the groceries and what have you. And the...
G: Food is such an important part of culture. You just don’t feel...you don’t feel fulfilled unless you have your own food.
Rao: Exactly. So that was...in the beginning it was difficult. And also she had an extra responsibility because she believed in vegetarianism. The children were also raised in vegetarianism, so when they go to schools they had to have...
G: It’s a problem.
RAO: ...Lunches and things, so she usually made, a lot of times, sandwiches and things like that for the children so that... At the same time her accomplishment is such, these Rao & Rani Pemmaraju 11
RAO: children were brought up in such a way that they are in no way different than anybody else. Because they come from a different country or they eat differently with the vegetarian foods and things like...the children used to ask, "How come we don’t eat a hotdog or how come we don’t eat hamburgers?" But she has to come and give an explanation in such a way that they are confident – at the same time accepted.
G: And how did you deal with that with the kids?
Rani: It’s very natural. There’s no problem with my children as far as food is concerned, so you have to explain to them in such a way so that they will truly understand what is a required situation at that time. So, go ahead.
G: This is kind of a different subject. Did...were...and you raised your children in your Hindu belief?
Rani: Right.
G: Is that difficult to do without a support of a community, without a temple or a...outside place of worship? Or is this the kind of worship that’s centered in the home, or both?
Rao: No. See, Hindu is such a beautiful religion that it accepts other religions just are all the same, but in different approach. So, as a result of it, we never had the problem of accepting other religions as others... participating in other activities. As a matter of fact, my Rao & Rani Pemmaraju 12
RAO: young children, when they were young for the kindergarten, as a matter of fact, they went to a Jewish synagogue school where we felt the teachings were very excellent; the teachers are very good and they getting a wonderful thing. So we went there. The younger boy...by the time the youngest one he grew up, she sent him to a different school - it was a Unitarian Church school. So in other words, wherever the education and...
Rani: It’s a blending of all cultures together.
Rao: The opportunities are better; we send them so that they can grasp the situation. As a result of it, even though the Hindu values and culture we taught and raised the children, they were exposed to other religions at a very young age. And then accepting the truth of other religions and the Hinduism is one and similar, but the approaches may be different. So as a result, all ecumenically well-balanced. And as a matter of fact, my son when he went to - the one who was born in San Antonio - he went to UT-Austin, and he’s an honor student there actually applied to honor program. There they had to write a thesis, and he chose the universality of all religions as one of his topics to write a thesis. And how Christianity and Buddhism and Judaism all aim at similar things, and how at the same time different in their views. But the goal is similar – same thing. It’s a very interesting thing. So even...these kids acquired that Rao & Rani Pemmaraju 13
RAO: information at a young age. So that way we didn’t have a difficulty. But now, the present day generation didn’t have the pressures...[inaudible]. Like today we have a Hindu temple in San Antonio; when they come ...[inaudible] ...the environment is there, a lot of people are there, a lot of cultures are there, a lot of kids of their age-group are there. So as a result, it was easy for the present generation.
G: It’s a very different...
Rao: Yeah. And as a matter of fact, there were no role- models for my children when they were growing - in college, up in high school and things like that. But at the same time, it helped them in many ways. Although they knew the culture and values of India because they used to go to India every two or three years. We used to visit India and visit grandparents and relatives and things like that. They’re exposed to that culture, but at the same time they also saw the mainstream American life. So, they could distinguish between these two but still adapted a life which is very congenial to these kids, at the same time never contradicting their views that way.
Rani: And also we used to travel a lot inside the United States also. So that in a weekend we used to take them... get them exposed to other parts of, ah, you know, like... what is it you call it, um, society? Rao & Rani Pemmaraju 14
Rao: Yeah. The spiritual centers.
Rani: The spiritual centers.
Rao: Not only Hindu but other religions also.
Rani: Different centers, and so that is no problem.
Rao: And at the same time, she and I were always invited to speak about the Hinduism or any other religion in the Christian churches and the synagogues and other places of worship here, so that others would know about Hinduism and so that... Then we took the opportunity to explain Hinduism is very similar to what you think as a Christian or as a Jewish, but the essential features of all the religions, the aim is one and the same. We used to explain that. So that way we had the opportunity to know other religions as well. So we didn’t have that problem.
Rani: But it is not easy; I’m telling you it is very hard!
G: I’m sure it is.
Rani: It’s a challenging. So you know...so you know that this, our life is really... [laughter]
G: So, when you came here what did...had you lived in America before you came here?
Rani: No.
G: So Texas was your first...
Rani: Total, total, total, total shock.
G: Your first taste...
Rao: ...Of America.Rao & Rani Pemmaraju 15
G: And what did you think when you first came to Texas, to San Antonio?
Rani: It is a shock! [laughter] I cannot explain. ...[inaudible] completely a total, you know, kind of a situation. Because we used to...I used to know more about... study about, you know, I read history, American history, so that I’m very familiar with Washington, New York, and different, you know, parts of the United States, but not Texas. I tell you San Antonio...[laughter]. Now I just love San Antonio.
G: Yeah. But it was a shock. [laughter]
Rani: Yes. It was a shock.
Rao: Also she comes from a large family of sisters and brothers, very clannish. And then, you know, they were all very together. In India the families are still, you know... Rani: Very strong.
Rao: Yeah, very strongly into families.
G: Seems like your family is very strong too.
Rao: Yeah. And then...
Rani: Very, very strong. So, I see that the culture in Spanish as well as Italian...and also I saw some other - Hawaiian I don’t know what they call that – the whole community of Hawaii, people are very close. Because we travel to Hawaii many, many times, so you know I know the culture of that, you know , place. That’s why I asked you Rao & Rani Pemmaraju 16
RANI: about your mother, as soon as you told me that, you know, you went there and took care of your mother. So that was another reason why I asked. So very close.
G: When you came here, you must have been homesick?
Rani: Very much, very much.
G: What did you do to get yourself past that?
Rani: Well, I used to write letters. I used to apply my philosophy, what I learned. Because in India, in Hinduism, we all train in such a way, things we learn, things to accept as they come, even though that makes you unhappy certain times, you know, but still you know we have to accept that kind of a situation and go on with our life. It’s not very different, but it’s very difficult, yes. But, you know...
Rao: Those days, communications, she a...through correspondence.
Rani: Yeah.
Rao: Telephones were there but...
Rani: Very expensive.
Rao: Still, not as frequently as now, we used it. And the global communications so fast now, so it’s different.
G: Do you communicate now to India with the computers?
Rani: [laughter] Of course!
G: And all of that? [laughter]
Rani: Of course! Actually... Rao & Rani Pemmaraju 17
G: Faxes and...
Rani: Actually, we’re very in...every two years we go to India, so in...[inaudible] there, so maybe we’re planning on going this year, maybe this year to visit our people.
G: Did you find a similarity in the climate or the vegetation at all between India and San Antonio?
Rao: San Antonio, exactly. San Antonio climate is very similar to Indian climate - except the very severe winter sometimes we have here - rare. But the summer here is like India. That’s one reason why we like it here. As I told you, I spent sometime in Rochester, New York. I never liked the winters there.
G: [laughter] I can imagine.
Rao: It’s so cold. So in that respect, I was very happy to come to Texas. When I saw Texas, it’s nice - maybe back home, warm temperature and all that. Also when I came to Texas, San Antonio particularly, people were very kind and nice to us, to be honest. That was 1958. And the board of trustees at the Southwest Research Foundation - I got letters from all of them - assured me that we would be treated just like everybody else and there won’t be any problem. I have my doubts. In those days, you know, there’s still discrimination – black and white and all, and groups and how they would be treated – I’m not sure. So, why should I go to Texas? Really, they assured me and in a Rao & Rani Pemmaraju 18
RAO: way I find, and our family found, we’re very welcome in Texas, in San Antonio.
G: So you didn’t encounter discrimination?
Rao: Not at all. [inaudible]
G: How about you? No?
Rani: No.
Rao: And housing and the workplace and everything and the people were very kind and nice, just like everywhere else. And at the same time, you know, being involved as a scientist and work-wise, I had my own interests to pursue and challenges and at the same time and all. In that respect, we respected people for what they actually are, rather than what you look like.
G: The Southwest Research or the Southwest Foundation are both very multi-cultural.
Rao: Yes.
G: Places of employment.
Rao: Exactly. As a matter of fact, ninety-percent of the people in these institutions - I’m speaking at the professional level - are all people that come from outside - either outside or not...not necessarily outside the United States, but out of San Antonio, Texas, quite a few people. From east, west, mid-west, all over, ...[inaudible] talented groups are assembled here to do top-notch research.
G: Now you talked a little bit about when the first other Rao & Rani Pemmaraju 19
G: Indian families came to San Antonio. There’s quite an Indian community here now, and there are a number of organizations that deal with culture and preservation of values and passing this on to children and so on. Were you involved in working on these processes?
Rao: Sure. Actually, exactly what happened, as you know, we’re the first Indian family and we used to know mostly American families here. Lackland Air Force Base is...there used to be a language school, as you know...
G: Still is, I think.
Rao: ...in Indian. When Indian Air Force and other people were helped by the American Air Force people, the fathers and when they came for further training, they always were routinely sent to Lackland for language. Because although India has advantage of English learning and everything, but the routine is to send them here. So whenever a batch of these new pilot-training or air force people used to come, they used to be lonesome there and then people who knew... met them at the air force base went, "Hey, we know an Indian family here." So that’s how they started out in the ‘60s. Then we used to go there meet them, bring them over to our house and then you know weekends and things like that. They used to be here for three weeks – four weeks – like that. Make them at home, so that’s how we used to meet them. And, however, the situation gradually changed. By the year 19...Rao & Rani Pemmaraju 20
RAO: actually the medical school was started, I think, in 1967 or ’68 here; and then in 19...by 1970 the medical school is functional and then some of the residents and the interns were coming from India were also here. And so three, four, five medical interns...[inaudible] started. So by then ...[inaudible] are here; we used to gather – twenty, thirty, forty members – like that. By the year 1975 came the community had been in town – the population in San Antonio expanded to closer to two hundred people. Whereas in 1958 only one family, so that’s a big growth. Medical school helped a lot. And then, of course, as medical school and the engineering...Southwest Institute also had two people and then gradually what happened in ’77, in the early part of ’80, quite a few people from South Africa and East Africa – the people during that time they had problems – these are already...Indian origin people settled in Africa; they moved to Canada and from Canada they came to here or from England they came here to Texas. And actually they were in business and this often happened. So they were all in the motel business or hotel business...[inaudible]... people too. Gradually populations are growing. And the... right now in San Antonio, we have an India-Asia Association, and also we have the Hindu Temple, and we also have other... Under the umbrella of these two major organizations, we have several cultural activities and other functions.Rao & Rani Pemmaraju 21
G: Two dance schools.
Rao: Oh yes. [laughter] Two dance schools, exactly.
Rani: Two of my children going there. [laughter]
Rao: Yeah.
G: So the early...the earliest Indian immigrants to San Antonio were the professional, educated professionals.
Rao: Absolutely.
G: And around in the ‘80s is when...
Rao: I would say...
G: ...Is when trades people started ?
Rao: Yes. Exactly.
Rani: Motels, motels.
Rao: The trades' people came in the late ‘70s and early ‘80s.
G: And what is the number of the Indian community in San Antonio now?
Rao: San Antonio right now, including all ethnic, all backgrounds including business, professionals and everybody else...
Rani: Five hundred?
Rao: I would say about two thousand five hundred people.
G: All right. It’s a big community.
Rani: Two thousand five hundred?
Rao: Two thousand people.
G: Now I know that Houston has a larger community.Rao & Rani Pemmaraju 22
RAO: Oh, yeah. Actually Houston, one of the largest in Texas, as a matter of fact, even compared to... See, the ...[inaudible] community were in New York area, even before. And then New York, then Chicago, then Houston. Houston, when we came in early part of ’58, there were not many. All were in...and development came, quite a few. Actually by 1964–’65, the Houston community was close to forty thousand Indian people.
G: Wow!
Rao: And our...that gradually changed, because in NASA again, cut down a lot of its personnel and quite a few people migrated to other places and all that. But again, came back. Now Houston is still a very big community, not only professionals, businesses... So, you see, each...
Rani: Oh, Microsoft. Because of the Microsoft, many people...
Rao: And now...
G: I know commuters are the latest...
Rao: Now the latest influx of Indian community in this United States is Software Technology. See, a lot of people...India has the advantge...
END OF TAPE 1, SIDE 1.
TAPE 1, SIDE 2.
G: This is side 2 of an oral history interview with Dr. Rao Pemmaraju and his wife Rani Pemmaraju. This is at the Rao & Rani Pemmaraju 23
G: Institute of Texan Cultures and I’m Laurie Gudzidowski and I’m conducting this interview.
Dr. Pemmaraju, we were talking about the Indian community in Houston and the changes in the community in the present day.
Rao: Yes. Exactly. The Indian community in the middle ‘80s - there again somewhat decreased, but gradually more business people more people started. Now the Indian community is very strong in Houston and the Small Business Administration drew people and the small businesses – quite a few entrepreneurs started factories and things like that. So I’ve known three or four groups of people who I consult and helped them, they have gotten very successful businesses in Houston.
G: Now, the Indian community in San Antonio. Are most of the members of the Indian community in San Antonio of the Hindu religion?
Rao: Majority of them are Hindu. And there are...I was just like to say, in India, as you know, eighty percent are Hindu, the other twenty percent are of other denominations. Similarly, in San Antonio too. There are Indian Muslims, Indian Christians, and other religious...very few Buddhists and things from India. But the Christians and Muslims are still very visible from India in San Antonio. Yeah, that’s true. So I would say about eighty percent of the people Rao & Rani Pemmaraju 24
RAO: here are Hindu faith.
G: And – I forgot what I was going to say! [laughter] And as your children grew, Rani, and your life changed, then you went into teaching.
Rani: Yes.
G: And doing community work. Now you had studied in India?
Rani: Yes, I studied in India. Yes.
G: And did you keep up over the years?
Rani: Yes. Because we have our own Indian newspapers and everything we...
Rao: She’s trained in history; she’s a history major.
Rani: So I have just been reading books.
Rao: And then a graduate in history, then logic and then, of course, she’s very much interested in journalism and things like that.
Rani: Keep myself busy! [laughter]
G: [laughter]
Rao: And she’s very much into public relations, and she’s a people’s person in a way. So she wants to enjoy...
Rani: I like people!
Rao: Talking to people, meeting new people, this is the kind of thing that interests her. And...
Rani: Most of all...we covered all of that stuff, right?
G: Uh-huh.Rao & Rani Pemmaraju 25
Rani: So anything else you want to say?
G: I don’t know. Is there anything else that you want to say? Are you...have either of you become American citizens?
Rao: Oh, yeah. We are...
G: When did you become an American citizen?
Rao: In 1980–’79 or ’80 – 1980.
Rani: Yes.
G: You’d lived here for a good number of years before you became a citizen; what was it that prompted you to take that step?
Rao: Very simple. See, every Indian who comes here...you remember, when I first came here, when they invited me down here - I have this strong national feeling - I wanted to go back and help India and then, you know, be there and that kind of thing. I don’t want to be an immigrant here. I would like to come as non-immigrant status. The institutions, they worked for it and then got me the very first non-immigrant visa in San Antonio in those days. And then afterwards, they – I liked the idea – suggest going for permanent residency. The permanent residency we got it without any difficulty! Right? [snaps fingers] But for the sake of asking, they used to...[inaudible] those days. And then...[inaudible] permanent residency – the idea was still entertained – maybe one day I like to go and help in India. That was the idea we had. However, when the children were Rao & Rani Pemmaraju 26
RAO: growing up and they got an education and their futures is here and then, more or less, although they’re exposed to Indian culture back home and back and forth and all that, we really felt, we both felt, their future’s here, we should now stay here for good. So that’s the decision in 1980 we both made and we’re happy about it. And...
G: I think it’s a very enormous decision for someone to make.
Rao: Yes. Enormous decision. So, although I had my...at that time my mother was living and my brothers are still living, and so are also her parents were living at that time. And so, even then we said for the sake of children and their future. By then, see, two boys are born in San Antonio and they’re already in high school and some of them in college, and we decided it is time for us to settle down here. And then we took the...easier for us to participate even more fully into the American political system, economic system, and everything. And so, we decided it was good for us to take the U.S. citizenship. So we both took the citizenship the same year.
Rani: And also he served as a trustee in ...[inaudible] San Antonio.
G: Uh-huh.
Rani: And he served as a trustee...
Rao: Of course, I’m involved in several cultural activities Rao & Rani Pemmaraju 27
RAO: ...[inaudible]. I was a trustee for the last six years and I’ve been a vice-president for the last two years. At the Witte Museum, now, I’m an honorary trustee. And then also the Hindu Temple, I’m a trustee and I served as the Lions Club president in...
G: [laughter]
Rani: Before the trustee, you served as a chairman also.
Rao: Yeah.
Rani: Of the Hindu Temple.
Rao: Yeah - chairman and...[inaudible] all those, but I’m still very active.
Rani: I think we’re now – we are getting better – we’re now more active than we were before. So, you know, every day is kind of, you know, occupied, you know; so we’re very busy and that is one of the duties of life. Because until, you know, unto the end of your life I think there is no way for you as long as the good Lord gives you the health and strength you still can do things – for you, as well as other people – that’s what we both believe.
Rao: And also I’m very fortunate, I had the privilege of knowing the founder, philanthropist - Tom Slick, one of the ...
G: Interesting man.
Rao: Interesting men in San Antonio, and he had a lot of interest in India because he believed in the Eastern RAO:Rao & Rani Pemmaraju 28
philosophy and things like that. He even started an expedition to find the abominable snowman. [laughter] And when I came, he particularly was interested to meet me and talk to me. And because I was joining one of his own creations here and then so we used to meet and discuss a few things and then he was a very fascinating person. I enjoyed knowing him. And then he also liked my coming to San Antonio and spending the...research scientist at the Foundation. And also the Foundation was very nice to me, in a way, because they gave me the opportunity to grow and develop independent ideas and things. That’s the only reason why I stayed here. Wherever you go in an academic institution, you have to have the choice. I firmly believe in academic research, but that opportunity was presented to me here. And then they said you do what you want to do and then we’ll be happy to support you as long as you get your ideas funded. And since 1972 onwards, I was one of the few very fortunate people - continuous support from the National Institute of Health. And I...[inaudible - raised?] twelve, thirteen million dollars.
G: Wow!
Rao: For my own research. And my department builded over a period of time, and it was very successful. And the Foundation, in recognition of that, has given the highest honor of creating the position of senior scientist and then Rao & Rani Pemmaraju 29
RAO: declared and the board of trustees voted the memo and all of that...Foundation Library.
G: You have lived in San Antonio now for forty years.
Rani: Forty years.
G: You’ve seen a lot of changes.
Rao: Oh, yes.
G: Would you like to comment a little on some of the changes?
Rao: Yes. San Antonio has grown tremendously. And when we first came, I guess, very, very backward. But it didn’t bother me – there were no educational institutions like the University of Texas or now the medical school – none of those things. The only way we wanted to do anything is... [inaudible] Southwest Institute or the Foundation. But even for us, as scientists, we like to interact with other scientists and other intellectual stimulation; we have absolutely nothing here. But that has changed over the years and then, now, this place - the University of Texas, the UT-Health Science Center and then of course the other research centers that are coming up along with the Foundation. And the Institute created a medically-oriented research environment, which is...far exceeds any other. For which I’m very happy. And this...slowly developing arts and cultures as well as other aspects also is developing. Even before, San Antonio has a unique environment of Hispanic Rao & Rani Pemmaraju 30
RAO: population and the Latin American cultures are there, but that grew much more. Now, the multi-cultural – the Folklife Festival, for example, is the classic example of all the cultures participating – that’s one of the best events to happen. The only conflict I have is it happens in August and it’s very hot! [laughter]
G: Yes. [laughter] Ah, but that reminds you of home! [laughter]
Rao: Yeah. So that’s the...so San Antonio has come a long way. And of course I must comment, one thing which I enjoy ...Henry Cisneros has done a tremendous good for San Antonio. He was a personal friend of ours - as actually, Rani is the one who spearheaded to introduce the Indian community to...
Rani: [laughter]
Rao: ...To the San Antonio city council. And we headed the fund-raising from the Indian community for the mayoral elections twice; and then Henry Cisneros was naturally interested in knowing about the Indian culture.
Rani: ...[inaudible]
Rao: And even apart from his private life, he’s an able and excellent administrator; he’s one of the great...I admire him for his accomplishments in San Antonio.
Rani: ...[inaudible]
Rao: So he’s a very good person. Personally, I’ve known Rao & Rani Pemmaraju 31
RAO: other mayors also, but to me he’s one of the best San Antonio has had. So like that one, we got involved in politics. Then, of course, Henry Gonzalez is our congressman. And he knew my daughter personally, because my daughter, when she was going to Trinity University for journalism, she spent six months of studying in Washington, American University. There she had to do political corresponding and things like that, so she met Henry B. and then he took a fascination for her. And then every year he used to send the communications and all that, and then even now he always remembers. And...but she's very much into – she’s also an extrovert and outward going person, my daughter. And she knew a lot of political people at the same time who were...[inaudible] journalism. She used to work with these people. And so I...and that way I knew Henry B. and now he’s retired, and then I think he’s a nice man. Now the Indian community in San Antonio is also visualizing – it’s not only our own growth. We have to get involved with the community involvement.
Rani: Mix with other people.
Rao: That’s why the Indian community, for example, recently – last year – they raised forty thousand dollars for Habitat for Humanity. It’s a beautiful project. So in...what we can do for other people in San Antonio. Fortunately the Indian community has, because of their professional nature, Rao & Rani Pemmaraju 32
RAO: all the people and other people, they’re financially a little better off than other ethnic groups when they came. Actually, there was a study done a few years ago by the Wall Street Journal, also. They said among the new immigrants to this country, immigrants from India have a...
Rani: An advantage.
Rao: Yeah. Advantage. Compared to many other groups.
because most of them are professionals - like scientists, engineers or medical doctors or businessmen. And that’s how it has happened. So it’s a complex – San Antonio for example; many activities in the Indian community do participate with, in general, with San Antonio. And the economic stimulation and the contribution of the Indian community in the San Antonio economy is great. For example, there’s a new – not a new -...[inaudible] six years – it’s called “Indian Entrepreneur Association of – from India.” ...[inaudible] all new business people will... [inaudible] number of people of Indian origin, in different businesses. They contribute by employment, by taxes, all this ...[inaudible] Indian colleagues. For example, ...[inaudible]
Rani: Since fifteen years...
Rao: ...[inaudible] very strongly.
Rani: Since fifteen years, we’re doing Festival of India here.Rao & Rani Pemmaraju 33
G: Uh-huh.
Rani: And recently, I think two days ago, Saturday, we had a Festival of India.
Rao: It’s very...[inaudible]
Rani: ...[inaudible] [laughter]
G: Oh, the rain! [laughter]
Rani: But it did not stop all the activities.
Rao: The festival helps a lot, to communicate about India, what India...when we first came people didn’t know what India was. Just like we don’t know about Texas! At that time, they used to think India is nothing but cobras or elephants and this sort of thing.
G: Everyone has their stereotype!
Rao: They even asked, “Did you come on a elephant? Or to the airport? How did you come?” They used to ask. They were not afraid to ask, but, you know, that tells me the kind of understanding what they had at one time.
Rani: ...[inaudible] mostly we...[inaudible],I think.
G: Is there anything that you would like to say about changes that you’ve seen in San Antonio - from your perspective, your different perspective?
Rani: I think the same thing. I also think the same thing. Over a period of time a lot of changes are happening, but they got a lot of exposure. Then we used to, you know, work with...[inaudible]; that’s how ...[inaudible]Rao & Rani Pemmaraju 34
RANI: say. And I don’t think...I think we covered everything, right?
G: Unless there’s something else you would like to say in concluding?
Rao: In concluding, I say San Antonio is a good place, multi-culturally now...[inaudible]. And the Indian community – San Antonio...[inaudible] multi-faceted approach to life. And the Indian community also finds San Antonio a healthy environment to raise the children; particularly we’re very happy about that. Because, you know, other communities – New York or Chicago – is still, in spite of the people complaining of crime and other things, is comparatively less, do we feel is a good place to raise the children. Now the change - educational opportunities and other things - is also changing here, so San Antonio is a better place to live. And more and more people from Chicago or New York or New Jersey area are migrating into San Antonio and then finding it’s like a heaven.
G: So you don’t regret making your decision to come?
Rao: No!
Rani: I don’t think so! [laughter]
Rao: We don’t have any regrets. On the contrary, we are very happy. Of course like every pioneer who comes to this country, or any country, has a lot of adjustments to make, and which, of course, we - being the pioneers we have to Rao & Rani Pemmaraju 35
RAO: grow too. Now I don’t envy the people that are coming now, because everything is there for them.
Rani: Right.
Rao: If somebody walks into today, they don’t find any different; they’re going from one Indian community to another Indian community like somewhere else.
G: Now the Indian community in San Antonio is not in a geographically predominantly...there’s not predominantly geographic area?
Rao: I would still say quite a few are Northeast and Northwest San Antonio. And the downtown and South side are Asian people. But there are some motel business people that are spread around. I would say predominantly they are living on the North side. That’s where it’s happening. There’s no one area – the Eastside or the Westside - something like that.
G: There’s no one area where, you know, there’s a lot of streets where...
Rao: No. It’s spread out. Now, the way San Antonio is growing...
G: Every different direction.
Rani: Thank you so much for...
G: Thank you.
Rao: If there’s anything we can help you with your planning in the future I would... Rao & Rani Pemmaraju 36
END OF TAPE 1, SIDE 2.