THE INSTITUTE OF TEXAN CULTURES
INTERVIEW WITH:
DATE :
PLACE:
PAUL PATTERSON
Paul Patterson, Ace Reid, Cliff Teinhert
Story Tellers
Folklife Festiva l
... what a real Texan looked like and a real Texan
sounded like and so I said , "Any ranchers around here?" He
said, " Yeah, there's a couple ..... on down
the road aways. " I says, you know how Texans are, "How big
is it?" He says , "It's only two thousand square miles."
And so he figured that if that wouldn' t impress a Texan, he
hurried on to tell me that Vi ctoria River Downs on northwest
of there was t en thousand square miles. Incidently, the
King Ranch En t erprises of Texas operates t wo million acres
of that now, I guess that's the horse trough. Anyhow, got
on out there and after that, I sa i d , "How many cattle's it
run?" " ...... Can't say how many beasts he's got, he
hasn't mustered in two years. Too bloody dry." And so
after that I sneaked back to my bus seat, sneaked my Texas
Western hat under my seat and told 'em I was from Rhode
Island ! (laughter)
Incident l y , old man Ace, they 've turned down old man
Ace, this is incredible. Down Under, they work cattle
exactly like they do like in old man Ace's day. They
would butcher one of their own beasts , ...... moving a mob
P. Patterson, A. Reid, C. Teinhert 2
of bullocks just like they do here in Texas. You know, they
sometimes even late as 30 years ago, they trailed cattle for
six months, they call them a mob of bullocks. Old man Ace,
because of his expert horsemanship, they said they'd put him
on Victoria River Downs and he says, "Wel l, boys , if we're
going to ....... go out and round us up a remuda of horses.
And my , the blokes went out and mustered a mob of bumbies
and so first herd he . . ..... to the pen they yawed at the
mob and first ... , oh yeah, old man Ace, he . .. I ' m getting
ahead of my story but everything he told him to do he'd
do it but they had another name for it .
And so old man Ace finally he told the cooks down there
just like the way they were here, they were a bloody lot
that didn't listen. So one time this cook he was cooking,
you know, Ace knows he was - he's old enough to knowhow
cranky old-time wagon cooks were . So this boss, the boss
drover, says to this cook, he says, "I say, sometimes the
bloke wouldn't even bother to light a fire . " So he said one
time to t he cook, he says, "I say, I wish you woul d fix a
hot breakfast now and again." And so the cooks says, "So
it's a hot breakfast you wish, is it?" Says, "I t ell you,
mate , see the boss drover over there, get him to bri ng up a
t i n of mustard and you can have a hot breakfast any day you
bloody l ike!" Anyhow, that was the last straw for old Ace ,
so he caught him a bumbie , rolled his swag, ate h i s last
bite of .... .... and he went out in the bush, down the
P. Patterson, A. Reid, C. Teinhert 3
track.
When he ... old Ace ... yeah, another thing that got on
his nerve, he'd tell 'em to "head 'em up the trail" and they
would "head 'em down the track, " but they ' d be going in the
same direction. That was all he could stand, so he's going
to take a mob of bul l ocks up to Wimberl y, up on the
northwest cape where they shipped 'em out, about a 2,000
mile drive with these 2,000 head of bullocks, gets up there
and he delivers 'em and he comes back and ....
And he has a cook and what finally, the last straw for
old Ace, this cook that went through ........ a little opal
mining town, and the cook fell in love with the barmaid.
That night, the first night out of camp they stopped at some
pretty good graze and they put him on guard and so this cook
went back in to this barmaid and then the next night they
moved about ten miles. The next night he went back in
again. So he was going to catch the same horse and this
old Ace says, "Don't catch that horse anymore, can't you see
he's rode down?" The cook said, "Now, this is the last
straw." Cook said, '" Rode down!' You don't mean 'rode
down,' mate, you mean that he's 'knocked up.'" That was the
last straw! Old Ace, he rolled his swag, drank his billy­bong
tea, rode out into the bush and pretty soon he wound up
in .............. Not for rustling cattle but Australian
Constabulary finally threw old Ace in for ........ now and
again. Now, ........... . , is a maverick! (laughter)
P. Patterson, A. Reid, C. Teinhert
ACE REID SR
and I tell you boys, that's the truth, that old .....
4
we've been down the same trail and don't think we haven't!
Now, I want to tell you people a little bit about a menu,
what we have as a cowboy and what you would say that "you
wouldn't eat that!" I been a 'telling school kids about
eating. Oh, they'll eat or drink a coke or ice cream cone
or something like that. Well , the wagon , you get up at
4:30, the cook then hollers, "Hi yo, breakfast! " You go to
breakfast, you get a cup of coffee, you get a good meal of a
morning and biscuit out of a dutch oven that is really
wonderful .
But there's no horses, that the night man is rounding
them horse and we got a rope, just a rope. You'd be
surprised, around a 150 horses and get 10 horses out of the
pick. Well , I got to telling these school kids at the
school one time about the way they eat. You just don't get
hungry enough, when you get hungry enough '" we got after
to rounding these 1 , 000 - 2,000 steers. We left that
morning at daylight and got back about half-way at noon to
headquarters where we were gonna ship these cattle . We
stayed out there 6 weeks and we're telling about not ever
getting throwed off a horse. I had a horse so .... ... , he
come from south Texas down here and old man Adams
raised 'em and old man ... I forget his other name ...
But anyhow, I duded out in a vest and a blue serge suit
P . Patterson, A. Reid, C. Teinhert 5
- breeches , you know, and I went out and I ...... on a ranch
then but I thought well, I'll go out with the wagon, that's
my first go-around, I'll look pretty good . Well, he says,
"Ace, dinner-time, the wagon ca ll ed , you stay and help hold
herd." I helped hold herd and hungry! gosh, I never was so
hungry in my life! Been out ever since 4 :30 and then it was
12 o 'clock, them boys, a bunch of 'ern go eat, and then
they'd corne back and then you'd go . I jumped on that old
sorrel horse too quick and he went to bucking and my
britches corne out over here unbuttoned and went astraddle of
the saddlehorn, tore one leg plumb out and I didn't have
another pair of britches. And the old boy said, "Go down
there to the wagon, I've got a ducking pair ." I went down
there and got that old ducking pair and pul l ed on 'ern and
boy, howdy , did you ever see a piece of raw meat!, 'tween my
legs, it took 'ern 3 months for ' em to heal up. And I rode
every day, I didn't miss a day !
And these kids, I tell 'em, they say, "I woul dn't drink
that water, I'm ... .. . " I tell you what I did when I was a
kid a'growing up. We didn't have nothing but a barrel and
it'd rain and goddang in 2 or 3 days it was full of
wiggletails . Well, you couldn't blow 'em out, you had to
swallow some of ' em . That ' s the way it was. That's the
reason we're so tough. We went through everything. Our
guts are just like rawhide . I can eat anything!
I can eat anything you can today! I don't care - raw
P. Patterson, A. Reid, C. Te i nhe rt 6
potato, onion, anything. So, this nigger, I'll never forget
him. Harvey was his name, Jack Harvey, he had one leg. And
if you got a drink of water you had to be ahead of those
steers getting to that lake and that wagon where dinner was
ready, if you didn't get there first, if you didn't get
there first to get a drink, when you got a drink you had to
strain it 'tween you teeth to get a drink, then you'd look
off up there and ...... green and white and there's maggots
just by the thousands, you're drinking that water, boy.
There's an old .......... where I corne down that make
me think one time he wanted to buy a horse. I says, "All
right. " He says,
says, "All right.
"I want to go on a round-up with you." I
We'll take you." And we got to a tank in
about 10 miles and he says, "Uh, I wouldn't drink that old
water! Out of that tank!" And I'll guarantee you that I
never drank out of nothing but a tank ... red-tank ... water
til I was 21 years old. And I don't think I seen ... 18
years old before I seen a piece of ice! And I got to
telling these kids all about that. And telling what they
wouldn't eat. Now if you say that and don't believe me, go
out there on one of them hills on that mountain and set down
there about 48 hours and see what - and we'll shove a little
something under your chin to eat and we 'll bring you a drink
of water with wiggletails in it and you'll swallow everyone
of 'ern! Boy, you just can't do it. I thank you!
( laughter)
P. Patterson, A. Reid, C. Tei nhert 7
Oh, before I forget, let me ....
Old Lee Reynolds, he was a little ahead of Ace even, out
there in King Mountain in Junction County where I was raised
up, Lee Reynolds was a little more subtle about it, Ace -
One time he and Lee Reynolds was pretty thirsty, pretty dry
for water, you know, they'd throwed a big herd together up
on King Mountain and they got to this big Boykin Tank about
3 o'clock in the evening and so they's pretty dry for water,
dry for water being brought on of the thirst they'd quenched
the night before in Rankin and old Lee Reynolds rode away
out in there, you know, had his stirred up, Ace's cattle
...... rode out in there about oh, this deep to his horse,
took his hat off, had the brim up where he could take a big,
long drink of that water, that water's green like Ace said,
with undertones of yellow and some brown, and so, he took a
big drink of that and strained out the maggots out of his
teeth so he spit the rest out and says, Charlie Lyons was
with him, he says, "Charlie, I wished I had me a jug, I'd
send my old mother a jug of this water." (Laughter.)
You bet. You bet. Where's Ace?
Ace quit us.
I don't know why he quit us, but he's got a l ot of
tales to tell, but I don't know.
Well, I'll tell one more on I'm gonna have to set
down. I'll show you a picture a boy took ...... that'll be
P. Patterson, A. Reid, C. Teinhert 8
put on my tombstone, folks, if you ever pass it by. In
Trent, Texas, when I was a little boy, my daddy had some
cotton planted. Now, I want to tell you about ... did any
of you ever see a hoopsnake? (No. A hoopsnake? Does
anybody ever know anything about a hoopsnake? (Nobody.)
Well, I was chopping cotton one time and it was hot and my
daddy told me, says, "Always , Son, chop out at the end of
the row, chop around t he fence line and everything." Well,
I had seen a hoopsnake but I never did get one stirred up.
And I'd heard about i t. Well, I was digging around a post,
they get down in cool spots, down in the ground. Now
listen, boys, this is kind of may not be the truth
but I know it is. (Laughter) So, I hit this hoopsnake and
he got mad. And I knew he was mad. And way down on the
other end of the row, about a quarter of a mile, there was a
big oak tree, about like that yonder, a little bigger, and
this hoopsnake corne out unwound and I took off! And they
wrap their head around the end of their tail and they got a
prong sticking out, just sharp as a needle , and there's more
poison in there than a hundred rattlesnakes . And he took in
after me and I had about a hundred yard start, but lord ,
lord, that snake was a bouncing ... every time his head would
go over and corne and h e 'd just righ t on me and I stepped
behind that tree and he hit that tree and stuck that prong
in that tree and it wasn't two hours until there wasn't a
leaf on that tree ... it wilted! (Laughter) (It's a true
P. Patterson, A. Reid, C. Teinhert
story?) I can't say. (laughter)
9
Anybody else? You're invited, if you'd like to tell a
story. Why me and old Paul will set here and listen at it.
Oh, before I forget it Ace, I want to tell a snake
story.
Oh, he's got ...
I witnessed this
You know, my wife says I blush when I tell the truth.
She says the way you can tell when I'm telling the truth, is
that my eyes are crossed . (laughter) I mean, when I'm
lying my eyes are crossed but when I'm telling the truth I
cross my fingers. (laughter)
We're working with the McElroy wagon, that's Elmer's
dad. He was running the McElroy wagon in Crane County in
1938, we asked ... while I think of it ... there's 18 men on
that wagon ... show you how cowboys have changed ... there's
18 men on that wagon and there's only 3 of 'em fat . And
even though . .. emphasis, heavy emphasis, is on light beers
now, people t hat are t all in the saddle every pour the ....
likewise wider. You know, the bigger ... the big spreads
nowdays ...... in other words that comes from these . . . they
say you can tell a real cowboy by his belt buckle . But, due
to these 'Coors contours,' these 'Budweiser bulges,' and
these 'Schlitz blitzes,' you can't see the belt buckle now.
Out in the 06, out in Alpine, I went through there, this is
in 1938, there were 18 cowboys wi th the wagon , only 3 of 'em
P . Patterson, A. Reid, C. Teinhert
fat . In 1978 I was going up
10
Fort Davis Road and the
06 was working and I' l l be a bigger liar than Tom Pepper and
he was kicked out of hell for lying, and if there wasn't 18
with that wagon and there was only 3 of ' em that was skinny!
And that was one of the bosse's wife. (laughter) The rest
of ' em ... .. these days ... in the old days the onl y saddle
without a horn is one that I just . . .. . . trying to ride Old
Montsana, but now these bronc saddles, no horns, you know
these contest bronc saddles, I thought those 06s, I thought
they were all riding bronc riding saddles! Because of that
' contours, ' 'countours, , hanging out over the belt buckle!
Oh, yeah, I was going to tell you a snake story! Out
there we made camp every night, moved camp every night, we'd
camped out there at the Horse Wells, west of where Crane is
now and I was sitting there, more or less low, because i t
was a pretty long day, we'd got up at 3:30 in the morning ,
a nd like the o l d cowboy said, he went to work on thi s
ou tfit, he just got to bed and they told him to get up , he
said, " I t sure as hell don't stay . .. take long to stay all
night on this outfit . " That's the way it was with that
outfit , I was sitting there at sundown waiting to rollout
my bed and Carl .... , he was right over there about six
feet from me, and I was between him and sundown, just going
sundown , he unrolled his bed and out went an o l d prairie
snake, he'd been rolled up in there and he left there really
... wasn't running, but he was doing the equivalent of i t,
P. Patterson, A. Reid, C. Teinhert 11
he'd been rolled up there about 16 hours.
Now then, does anybody ... the out of state guests
I want to put everybody from out of state at ease. Now Ace
is modest, he woul dn't bring this up , he's too bashful. But
I'm here to dispel some rumours about Texas. You know a lot
of you looking at me right now, that poor old t hing , sitting
there, in his r ocker ... off his rocker (laughter), now
that's probably another one of these typical Texans, proud,
loud, low-browed , the most .... , the least ....... of
anybody in the crowd! That's not me and Ace at all! Me
especially. I'm quiet, polite, right, always right, and
above all, modest . And rich! (laughter) Naturally you
want to know how I made my money . (laughter) Three
fortunes, to be exact. The first one, a cowboying a little
and a herding sheep a whole lot, now I did not want to bring
that up, but . .. (laughter) ... I'd like to be honest. The
second fortune I made - teaching school, the third fortune
I'm working on now. Old age pension! (laughter)
And another thing I want to dispel, t hey say that
Texans are hard to get along with. That isn't us at all,
either. I've lived in Texas three score and ... and ten
years and one and I've only been hit over the head once with
a table leg and shot at one time with a shotgun. Now, being
hit over the head with a table leg you wouldn't even know it
unless somebody asked me a sensible question! (laughter)
Now being shot at with a shotgun, now Winston Churchill, I
P. Patterson, A. Reid, C. Teinhert 12
can speak Winston Churchill with an Australian accent, but I
won't use any accent here. But Winston Churchill said, as
regards to being shot a t with a shotgun, Winston Churchill
said, "The most exhilarating thing in life is being shot at
without success . " I even beat Winston Churchill ... he's
one of the greatest orators of all time, but I'd tighten and
that statement, I say, "The most accelerating thing
in life is being shot at without success." (laughter)
Here's what I mean, we was moving this herd to the
railroad in Barnhart, incidently Barnhart used to be the
biggest livestock shipping point in the United States. We
was moving this herd about 50 miles into Barnhart to ship
out and I was down in front of ... we'd camped to wagon for
dinner, about 1/2 mile from Mrs .... . ... 's house, gonna eat
dinner there. And I was down opening the yardgate of this
ranch house when that shotgun went off. And the boys said,
it was just a matter of just a few fleeting seconds before I
was back in camp! I'd been back even sooner if I hadn't had
to stop for my horse! (laughter)
Now then, I have to keep notes because at my age I get
lost and I don't know the differ ence .
either, but I have to look and see.
Probably you may not
Oh, yeah, to win the confidence of in and out of
staters, and I say this in all modesty and humility, but
Reader's Digest in 19 and 43, page 95, designated me as one
of the biggest liars in Army, Navy, Air Force and Marines .
P. Patterson, A. Reid, C. Teinhert 13
Now I like to think it was talent, but my wife says it just
comes from experience and constant practice. (laughter)
Anyhow, in the Army, Navy, Air Force and Marines . Now
lying, to give you a simple sample, example, about lying
I've got a sheepherders story for you.
Now, back in the old days, I was ... well, it wasn't
the old days because we had air conditioning then , but I
was riding along one day and the air conditioning went out
on my saddle and (Your saddle?) .. . and I headed out
West to ....... You know, the time changes between ..... .
and ............ and I called in to Green Valley, and the
reason they call it Green Valley is like old Ace said, "When
anything dies , it turns green." Well , I wasn't dead yet,
but I called up this sheepherder's camp, there were 3
sheepherders in there. One of 'em was blind, one of 'em was
bald-headed, and one of 'em was normal. That is as normal
as a sheepherder could be. (laughter) Actually, Normal was
his name, Sub Normal . (laughter) And Sub said he had a
brother named Ab and he said his brother, Ab, was twice as
smart as he was, but he should have been because he had two
heads! ( laughter)
But anyhow Sub Normal was out ... that was back when I
crossed that time zone ... instead of going back an hour it
went back an hour and a hundred years and these sheepherders
had to keep watch over the flocks by day and night, you
know, just l ike Jesus did over yonder, and they watched over
P. Patterson, A. Reid, C. Teinhert 14
the flock by day and night because the Indians were bad.
They would scalp the Commanches ... the Apache s out in
there and the Commanches a little this side , so one night a
terrible thing happened. Not only a terrible thing but a
confusing t hing happened . While Sub was on guard watching
the fl ock, the Apaches slipped in and stabbed the blind man
and took out old Baldy's eyes. So , Sub, even though he was
Sub Normal, he could tell by the North Star that it was
actually 3 minutes and 33 seconds until 3 o'clock, time for
old Baldy to go on guard . So he went in and woke up old
Baldy and o l d Baldy saw he couldn't see and so he says ,
"Heck, Sub , you hadn 't woke me up a 'tal l, he woke up the
b lind man!" About t hat time he felt of his bal d-head, and
says , "No, I guess you must of woke us both up !" ( l aughte r)
About t hat time t he blind man woke up , he felt his naked
skull, he said, "No, you ain't woke me up, 'cause I know I'm
not blind and ba l d-h eaded both! " (laughter) Now , you may
not believe that and you wouldn 't either if you know me. I
don't much believe it myself . You wouldn't believe it
either if you know me like I do.
Now, I'm gonna have a few more minutes and I'm going t o
t urn it back over to Cliff Teinhert o f Albany , Texas. Oh
yeah, now, picture ...... I want to tell you about my old
west c onnections . I ' ll be a bigger liar than Torn Pepper if
I don't have some old west connections, not only impeccable,
but incredible. My uncle, ......... , lies buried not 4
P. Patterson, A. Reid, C. Teinhert 15
miles as the buzzard flies from the molderi ng r emains of
Billy the Kid himself in Fort .... .. New Mexico. I f that's
not enough ....... have you ever heard of Butch Cassidy and
the Sundance Kid? How many heard of Butch Cassidy and the
Sundance Kid? Good, alright. Listen to this. How many
have ever seen those pictures of Butch Cassidy and the
Sundance Kid in the ads? And the man is sitting down in
front ... all of ' em have derbies only ... but the big,
stately gent l eman sitting down in front with the derby hat
on was named ... we called him "The Tall Texan." He was
named Ben Kilpatrick. All right then, back in 19 and 24 in
Rankin , Texas, in a sparring match, his nephew beat me up.
Hi s name was Claude Kilpatrick . And he went on , Claude
Kilpatrick, married the niece of Captain Frank ....... who
fina lly brought Bonnie and Clyde to ......... Now , Claude
though later on he killed himself, then the big bully that
struck oil in Reagan County, a big bully by the name of Pat
Moran, came over to dance at Rankin one night and he beat me
up too. (laughter) Later on he went out and kill ed
himself. So that shows I'm not a man to be monkeyed around
with . (laughter)
Now, while I'm at it, I'm not aiming to brag, but I
actually my main claim to fame is in the field of music.
In 19 and 47 I hauled a piano for Lawrence Welk. Now, I'm
not lying now, (laughter) If Lewis Gates is still
living here in San Antonio he could corroborate that
P. Patterson, A. Reid, C. Teinhert 16
statement 'cause my first , fossil fuel fruits of Mother
Nature .......... . ............ built a big night-club up
in . .. out in Rankin called Rankin ...... And Lawrence was
just starting out now. Lawrence may not remember this
... . ... I hauled his piano for him. As a consequence, fo r 3
solid weeks, every night I got to dance free . And being a
saintly boy at 17, I always flipped a coin on Sunday night
to see whether I went to services or danced to the music of
Lawrence Wel k. Sometimes I'd have to flip that coin 3 or 4
times! (laughter)
And another thing now. I ain't aiming to brag , but I
was pretty good at dancing mysel f. Now, in those days a man
held on to his partner while dancing. In my case, it stood
me in good stead 'cause I didn' t ...... you could always
jump out the nearest window and escape. (laughter) But the
Flea hop, the Toddle and the Charleston, I was good at all
of 'em. In fact , I can't do any of ' em now except the
Toddle! (laughter) I do that al l the time, trying to wa l k.
Anyhow, t he Flea hop, all it was ... what you would call ...
you know, you just jump up and down, wha t you'd cal l a hop
foxtrot. Now t he Flea hop was something else. I'd
demons tate if I could , but the Flea hop was on the order of
a "ants in the pants " dance . ( l aughter)
Now, I'm gonna relinquish this in just a minute to my
partner, but I may have time for one more. Okay, one more
if you'll bear with me .
P. Patterson, A. Re id, C. Teinhert
END OF TAPE 1, SIDE 1, ABOUT 30 MINUTES.
SIDE 2.
Can your credulity stand one more ... one more of my
connections? (You bet ........ ) All right. Now, this'll
17
strain your credulity but this ... I'm telling the truth
again, you 've all heard of Frank and Jesse James. All
right, in 19 and 33, there's a semi-bare footed president of
the Pioneer Club at Sul Ross Texas, a ...... I was presented
a pair of boot-shoes ... you know, when old-timers got old,
why they'd cut the tops off of boots and they'd just have
shoes made on the boot style. All right. I was presented
with a pair of boot-shoes t hat belonged to the brother of
the brother-in-law of Frank and Jesse James. All right. (I
believe it.) The brother was Tom Palmer . The brother-in­law
was Alan Palmer who used to be with Pancho's Guerrillas,
brother-in-law of Frank and Jesse James. The person that
presented me with those boot-shoes was Mrs. Alan Palmer,
Frank and Jesse's own sister, at the r equest of Mrs. Frank
James, Frank's widow. She saw I was nearly bare-footed and
she always called me "That li ttle Dutchman ." Now, I just
throwed that in to brag a li ttle and l e t you know I have
some b ig connections. (laugh ter)
All right, one more now, I'm going to save the next one
'til the last day 'cause it's a really nice one . I live
next door to ....... . ..... who is the Deputy Sheriff and
P. Patterson, A. Reid, C. Teinhert 18
City Marshall of Crane, Texas, distant relative of Wyatt.
And I ain't aiming to brag but I helped Uncle ....... make
an arrest on a ex-semi ... not semi but super tough ex-cowboy
by the name of Bert .. .. .... I deem it only fair to
confess however, tha t all I had to do was stand on Bert 's
coattails whi l e Uncle ...... went around and got the patrol
wagon to load him in. I deem it only fair to confess that
Bert was drunker than 17 hootowls in a thicket full of sioux
Indians the night after Custer ' s last stand. Now then,
that's so much for my connections .
..... I've got 2 or 3 more minutes. Now, oh yes, in
the past to establish a man as being truthful you have to
tell something painful from your past. I've already told
that about my being not much of a cowboy; couldn't ride very
much. Let me tell you something painful from the present.
I like Howard Cossell. (laughter - boo!) I like Howard
Cossell. Now Don Meridith is alright, but all he knows is
one note for one line of "the party is over." I like Howard
Cossell. Now then . If it's any consolation to you I'm not
in love with Howard Cossell. Now I can't think of anything
worse than liking Howard Cossell except being in love with
Howard Cossell.
Now, I would like to tell you why I'm cross-eyed. It's
an 8 minute story full of adventure, romance, suspense, pain
and I'll tell that tomorrow. If you're still here tomorrow,
P. Patterson, A. Reid, C. Teinhert 19
come around at this time and I'll tell you why I'm cross-eyed.
It's a sad tale and yet I believe you'll get some
inspiration from it.
Now, I'm calling Cliff Teinhert. Cliff , it's your time
now. And don't let Cliff run a bluff on you, he's from out
West too . (applause) Cliff .. .
I appreciate you being with us. Come around tomorrow,
sure enough, I want to tell you .. . while you're leaving
though, this is not a lie, it's documented down here at
Joske's or was . . . when I was a kid, I moved 36 times in a
covered wagon. It's in a book called "Crazy Women and
Ranchers." You can buy it down here at Joske's and I say
this in all modesty, you ..... is a very moving book, if you
call 36 times in a covered wagon moving. It's also a funny
book, that is, if you can call sleeping in sleet, snow ,
eating cornbread and molasses. Funny, why it's a funny
book, but mainly what I like about it is, there's only one
dirty word in the whole book and it's on the last page. You
know, back "Gone with the Wind," they wrote a book 11
hundred pages long, you know back there when Rhett Butler on
the very last page , 1200 page or something, it shocked
people nearly out of their boots, he told Scarlett, the very
last thing he said, "Fra nkly, my dea r, I don't give a damn."
Now, on the very last word, the "Crazy Women and Ranchers,"
I do the same thing. Sir, here's woman that read the book,
she went all the way through it. Well, I guess she stopped,
P. Patterson, A. Reid, C. Teinhert
maybe, to take a nap or two. But anyhow, on the very last
page now, it's actually not a dirty word, but it' s a semi­dirty
word. Even a semi -dirty word was too much for my
oldest sister who i s a Hard-shelled Baptist. But,
20
was the name of the horse and whoever heard of a horse with
an alias . And actual l y, I called a horse one time a worse
name than that, well, he throwed me off and nearly broke my
neck, but I was at least 40 miles from town and in a forty­section
pasture. Well , I gonna turn it over , here he is now
Pardon me, Cliff, took too much of your t ime, I think.
It's all yours now.
CLIFF TEINHERT .
CT: I don 't know any of t h e old-time stori es like Ace and
his daddy and Paul do . I might tell you a story or two .
.. .... t hese are true stories now, you know,
Got a good f r i end up there , al l he does he fishes up
there on the Clear Fork, up there in Throckmorton County, up
there at ........ Throckmorton i s about . .. oh, 60 miles
north of Abilene And Old Clear Fork has got some awful
good fish in it . And this old guy sold ....... fo r
... ... ... . for years and years and old John Bennett and he
lives , just flat lives , up there on that river . He said
that he's t he only man that's wa l ked both sides of that
river for ....... walked that whole river out. Both s ides
of those banks . Well , he was in World War I, and right
there bef ore he went off to war he decided he was going to
P. Patterson, A. Reid, C. Teinhert 21
have a fishing trip and went off up there to spend a week up
there. He left his pocket watch, a gold pocket watch that
had ..... had a chain on it and he was off up there fishing
and does a lot of flyrod fishing he gets up on the bank,
says you gotta sneak up on them fish, and he'll paint his
face with black and put on his camouflouge clothes and all
that ... flyrod catch them big old channel fish, 8 to 10
pounds, ...... 80s now, I guess. But anyway, he . .. going
off to war there, he spent that week up there fishing. And
he lost his pocket watch and that thing had a chain on it
and it had a hook on the end of the chain there and never
did find that watch. Lost it off the river there while he
was flyrod fishing.
And he corne back from the war, he was gone 2 years,
over there in Europe .... and he got back horne and the first
thing he wanted to do was go back up there fishing . And he
spent another week up there and caught a 10 pound yellow-cat
and man, he had a devil of a time getting him in there, and
he pulled him in , pul l ed that fish in there and he noticed
something shining there in the corner of that old fish's
mouth, and is was that chain, that hook on there ... caught
right there in that fish's mouth, that hook was right there.
And that watch had lodged right back there in that fish's
gills and he said that thing only lost 2 minutes in all that
2 years, he said that old fish's gill kept that old watch
wound up! (laughter) That's a true story.
P. Patterson, A. Reid, C. Teinhert 22
And he said the biggest fish he ever saw up there,
caught up there on the Clear Fork, up there at Fort Griffin,
and this fish was caught inside a chicken pen. The river
got up real big and a 70 pound yellow-cat had walked over
there inside that chicken pen and went out there and the
river went back down and the chickens out there just
squawking away and raising al l kinds of Cain. And he went
out there and the danged old fish just flopping in that mud,
just laying there flopping. And he said , now, if I never
told the truth, that was the truth! That old big fish
....... right up there and caught him and took him to the
house and dressed him out ....... fish. But old John lived
up there on the Clear Fork for years and years and that's
all he does is fishes. I guarantee he can tell you some
fish stories!
Well, l et's see here, I have a story here for you all.
I'm trying to think up a good one here. Did you tell 'em
any lies, Paul?
PP: I'm l eaving the lies t o you Cliff.
CT: Well, I don't know any lies
PP: I'm a straight - out truthful man.
CT: Do what? ... Well, ....... told me a story awhile ago
that I've heard before - about his hunting dog - said that
he had this old dog and he was the smartest dog that he ever
saw. That he could point birds, he could r e trieve 'em, he
could go duck hunting, he'd go in the water, anything you
P. Patterson, A. Reid, C. Teinhert 23
wanted him to do. He said that whenever you'd go get your
rifle or anything, he go out there, if you wanted to hunt
deer, he said, he'd be ready to go, he'd know exactly what
you're gonna do. He said, get your shotgun, boy, he'd get
out there, he'd go to pointing and he'd go over there and
get his quailbag, bring it to him, whatever he wanted to do.
He said that dog got to be so smart, he said when he went to
get his fishing pole, he said he'd get that fishing pole
down off the wall and that old dog would run up there ahead
of him to the creek and when he got up there, he'd have a
can of worms dug for him! (laughter) (applause) I don't
believe that story. (Tell a lie!) (applause)
I don't know much of anything I got to tell these
folks, Paul.
PP: I run out. I'll have to go back to the well, Cliff .
CT: You guys storytellers? ...... You want to tell a story?
PP: Tell 'em some of your cowboy adventures, Cliff. Now
you worked for the Reynolds' haven't you, Dave .... ?
CT: I'll tell you a true story that happened up there.
PP: Yeah, go ahead. They'd like to hear that, a lot of
people never have been in cowworks.
CT: Ain't something that you can get into think you
get up in there and they're awful gentle ... I raised
l onghorns up there . .. got a bunch of l onghorns ...
PP: Uh-huh.
P. Patterson, A. Reid, C. Teinhert 24
CT: ... and these old cows, most ..... , and t hey 're just as
gentle as a dog and you can put out feed right there and
they'll walk up to you and you can feed right out of your
hand. Had a bul l tha t kept getting out and he wouldn' t jump
the fence but he'd jump across the cattle-guard. Walk up
there , stick his head up there and lean forward and away
he'd go.
PP: Uh-huh.
CT : And try to feed ... back in there and get him back
through the gate where - he'd found him some girl-friends
over there and he just wouldn't come back in. So I got my
horse, this was about three weeks ago, and got up early one
morning . Been so danged hot up t here you can't do 'em after
you get up in the heat of the day, and brought 'em back over
across there and brought 'em back out the gate, brought 'em
back over there to the trap and put 'em in there .
Th e old bull got to . . . . . got him off up there ......
he went got down in the tank, he'd go across the neck
of that tank and go plumb out of sigh t , get in that water
and you couldn't even see him nose out and blow, throw
his head up and blow and he'd walk on out the other side
in the background, two or three times, he'd do the same
thing, go back across that neck, well, I guess he got all of
it that he wanted and I brought him back around there
another time and that wise old horse, he was a good old
horse and you could do about anything you wanted to on him.
P. Patterson, A. Reid, C. Teinhert
But he was not too speedy, but he was a lot faster horse
now, anyway.
25
That old bull came back around there and he expected to
get up there to that water. He just walked up towards me,
went to ..... . like this, directly here he come, I knew that
something bad was fixing to happen, I turned this . . . . . .
horse around and that bull was a lot faster than that horse,
anyway , he hooked that hors e in the rear- end and he got a
hole in that horse, about as deep as your hand, got one horn
in that deep, just about tha t long, and it made a lot faster
horse out of him . (laughter) You can't even get up close
to an old bull now, man, I'll tell you what, that old horse
he ' d go back the other way. (laughter)
PP: You know Cliff, out there, they're the most interesting
cattle I believe in the world . And they date so far back
that out there .. .. .... he likes to he was going to
raise him some roping cattle, you know, got him six longhorn
bulls and mixed them up with those other cattle, and when he
got him some l onghorn calves, he'd just run 'em a little and
the legs would turn to ....... , you know, he traded all his
bulls off ...... . .. temperamental . . . they're gentle but
you don ' t just
CT: Oh, yeah, they're gentle but I guarantee ... . . .
PP : I'll bet if you'd 'chouse' one I'd make sure it'd get
you.
CT : A lot of people ranching now, you know, put those
P. Patterson, A. Reid, C. Teinhert
longhorn bulls on ........ after the first calf, after
don't have any problems calving and all, a l ot of people
PP: Oh, yeah, they're beautiful cows . .... . .
CT: ...... feed out of your hand ... .
PP: Uh-huh.
CT: accustom to you ..... you get in a jam
PP: What's the longest spread of horns on those you got;
you got any
CT: Oh, I've got ...... steer, they're the biggest, you
know, you cut them when they're young ...
PP: Uh-huh.
CT: ........ got some cows that have about 42, 44 inch
horns spread and I got a bull that has a 44 inch horn
spread.
PP: Well, they're all colors, I'll bet.
CT: Yeah, all colors .
PP: They're beautiful cattle.
CT: Yeah.
PP: Uh-huh.
26
CT: ...... and when you turn these cattle out, say you put
' em with a different kind of cattle, they won't have
anything to do with 'em, they're just lik e b irds , take a
red-bird or black-bird, they'll hang together, you know the
saying "birds of a feather flock together?", that's just the
way those cattle are. They won't have anything to do with
P. Patterson, A. Reid, C. Teinhert 27
any other cattle. You might find one get in a bunch with
'em, but they won ' t themselves hang with any other kind of
cattle, they'll pick out their own. I've never have seen
any other catt l e that'll do like that.
PP: Well, I'll swan, they never do mix up with 'em ...
CT: Yeah, Paul, they will, you know, ..... ... but as far as
the herd, they'll seek out their own; what reason I don't
know.
PP: Well, I'll swan.
CT: It's just the way ..... cattle evolved here in South
Texas, you know, it's just the way they've bred through the
years cause ' em to do that, I guess.
PP: Uh-huh.
CT: But I've put some cross-breds in there and they'll try
to get in there with 'em, well, they 'll run ' em plumb off
and now they've got cross-breds, they're bred ... they're
crossed with Herfords, they won't .... they'l l run 'em plumb
out of the herd, and they'll make ' em stay off to
themselves, they won 't even keep any other kind in there
with 'em.
PP: Well , I ' ll swan, that's something I didn't know. Tell
me a horse story, Cliff. You know horses do some incredible
things once in a while - did you ever have anything spec i a l
you ever been hurt much with horses?
CT: About what?
PP: You ever been hurt with horses much, working cattle?
P. Patterson, A. Reid, C. Teinhert 28
CT: Oh, yeah. I guarantee you anybody's on a horse . ,.
I'll guarantee they've been hurt, you know. That .. .
anybody's ever had anything to do with a horse has been
hurt. I'll guarantee they 'll hurt you. I don't care if
it's one you think is gentle ..... they're gonna hurt you
PP: Yeah, if you work long enough you're gonna get hurt one
of these days.
CT:
off
horse very l ong , I'll guarantee you've been bucked
PP: That's right . (laughter)
CT: We got a show up there in Albany called the "Fandangle"
PP: Uh-huh. I've heard of it .. . maybe I've seen it.
CT: It's a two-hour long show we do up there every summer
and it's the last two week-ends in June every year. But
anyway, it tells about how our country was settled up there,
it tells about first how the Indians were on the land and
how the settlers came in, the military , outpos t there, we
have a scene in there we bring an old chuckwagon out there
and have a calf branding , r ope a calf ou t there a nd h ave a
calf branding, and then we bring thi rty head of longhorn
steers right up there on the stage ... Anyway , to start off
this show wit h a flag parade , and I carry the United States
flag, I'm the first one and t he horses criss-cross, I mean,
we've had some bad wrecks ...
P. Patterson, A. Reid, C. Teinhert
PP: Yeah, it's pretty reckless ...
29
CT: .. . Yeah, we've .... in
there was two boys that kept
'76, right at the last night,
.... . ... they got a little bit
too close together and had to run 'em wide open . .. and one
horse it killed him outright, it broke his neck, they was
run together, and the other one, they laying out there
on the stage, had to slip him off out there ... didn't
know what they were gonna do with him, it knocked his
shoulder plumb ... just knocked it plumb out and had to put
him to sleep. That was a bad wreck .
PP: Uh-huh. You know, before your time, Cliff, I had a
good friend went down there and worked for Reynolds or some
big outfit down there and he was dragged to death he'd
roped something and got down and some way another got the
rope around his wrist and this horse dragged him dragged
him to death . His name was Lester Beecham, that was way
back in 1921 - '22, I guess.
CT: Yeah.
PP: Just dragged him un t il there wasn't anything lef t, this
horse ran and ran and ran ...... horses give out and of
course, he was there by himself, t hey pay
CT: ..... Bill Brett, hear that ....... .
PP: Yeah, uh-huh.
CT: Here a few years ago, his son ...... . old horse fell
off that tank on to him , killed him here ... that's only
been a couple of years ago ...
P. Patterson , A. Reid, C. Teinhert
PP: Well, I declare.
30
CT: . ... that guy up there in Albany here it's been quite a
few years ago got into a situation just like you were
talking about, rope got hung up and he got off his horse and
rope hung to him, drug him, . .. . . old horse got scared
flopping back there, you know, and I'll tell you what, it
was bad. They didn't find much of him.
PP: But you know, I did a lot of research on horses and
wrote an a rticle about it and the first f our black horses I
did research on , black horses are bad new because the first
four black horses I did research on somebody'd been killed
on.
CT: .... b lack horses?
PP: I don't know, black just being hard luck, you know,
Jake McClure, world's champi on calf roper,
CT: Yeah.
PP: Black horse killed him, I forgot that old horse's name
Black horse killed him. And then there's the cowboy
down there below Rankin with Harris' that had a horse called
"Four-time Black ." He was coming off a little mountain down
there, he was a real cowboy and he was really ... he was a
good rider and everything else, but he didn't tighten his
cinch coming off this mountain, t hi s was a little old black
horse, pretty little, and some way or another the saddle
turned and he got his foot hung in the stirrup and this
horse drug him to death . He was a big man and had big
P. Patterson, A. Reid, C . Teinhert 31
boots, they took his boots off there and ....... he died,
and I guess thirty years after that we was riding in that
pasture and there was one of his boots - looked like a
baby's boot, drawn up, you know, the sun. And now let's
see, there's a black horse over at Stockton that killed a
boy and then ... I can't remember the o t her ... the other
black horse. All of them involved in somebody getting
killed. Of course other horses has killed, too.
CT: Yeah.
PP: There's a lot of things that if Cliff can think of 'en
tonight, there's a lot of interesting stories . Oh yeah,
there's old Cliff Ewing, there was a windmill out there
PP:
now you be thinking while I tell this!
Sit down right t here .
...... There you go.
Now a lot of these true stories are a lot better than
lies! ....... did you hear about these black horses I was
telling about? You heard that . Well , a lot of research
now, I'll tell this .... he tells the story, Cliff' s dad now
he lived to be 92 years old but his windmill out there was
making noise and he looked Maxmilian's gold out there
in ......... looked for it for 50 years and was always "just
a day away" to finding it . He died before he found it and
now, this is the t ruth, I know where it i s and if I ever
need it I'll dig it up.
P. Patterson, A. Reid, C. Teinhert 32
Well, old Cliff said that up on Carver Hill, that's
north of Odessa, they bought his boy a saddle, it was going
to be his 13th birthday, but he hid it up in the barn 'cause
he didn't want his boy to ride it until after his 13th
birthday 'cause it would be hard luck. His boy found it on
his birthday and saddled up to take a ride and had some kind
of accident and he was killed. I don't know what color his
horse was, I'd like to think it was black.
Anyhow, some other cowboys, nobody'd ride this black
this horse ... and finally and old cowboy came along,
well , the Carver Hill was a .... ranch, it was a big outfit
in those days, and the old boy said, "Aw, that's a bunch of
bull." So the ...... "I'm gonna ride that horse he's a
goodlooking horse." Says, "There's no such thing as luck.
I'm gonna ride that horse and r ope a calf." So he did and
he did and that horse he got ..... . and that horse killed
him. Now wh at ' d be the name of that story? "Case of t he
Homicidal Saddle?" Or would it be " ...... Phobia", you know
that's the fear of 13. The only reason I know what that
means is 'cause I was interested in it and I looked it up.
Now that's all I know, Cliff.
CT: Well, I can't believe that (laughter)
END OF TAPE 1, SIDE 2, ABOUT 30 MINUTES .