INTERVIEW WITH: Martha Terwey
DATE October 31, 1986
'PLACE Nederland, Texas
INTERVIEWED BY: Janie and Walt Sargeant
JS: Martha, when and where were you born?
T: My home was in Nederland but I was born in a hospital in
Port Arthur.
JS: Your parents were living here in Nederland when you were
born? Had they been here long?
T: My father was here in 1900 and my mother in 1902.
JS: I saw, on a note, that he came to the United States via
Canada and South Africa .
T: That's right.
JS: Did he go to Canada first?
T: Yes, when he was 19, he went to Canada and stayed for two
years. Then he went back home (Holland) ... I don't know how
long he stayed . .. went back home and then he read in the paper
that a ship was going to South Africa so he got on the ship
and went to South Africa.
WS: What was he doing? A seaman or ... ?
T: No, he was a cabinet maker by trade.
WS: Did he do carpentry work on the ship, you mean?
T: No, he just wanted adventure; he wanted to go somewheres.
But first he had to le arn how to be a cabinet maker at home
and have a job to make some money to go.
just worked on a farm.
JS: What area of Canada, do you remember?
T: That I don't remember.
But in Canada, he
TERWEY
JS: Then when h e went to South Africa, h e did more cabinet
'work?
2
T: He made railroad coaches for the first railroad in South
Africa.
KS: Is that right? That's interesting.
T: His shop was in Pretoria .
WS: What year was this approximately? Early 1900 ' s just before
he came here?
T: He came here in 1900. He was there four years, in Africa.
WS: He came ri ght directly from Africa?
T: No, he went back home but he never stayed very long. Then
he saw where a ship was coming to the United States so . .. to
Texas, so he came over here.
JS: Where did he land, do you know?
T: I think in Galveston.
JS: Then did he st ay there long, before he came to Nederland?
T: No, he just came to Nederland. He heard about Nederland;
had heard about Nederland.
JS: He wasn't married at that time.
T: No.
JS: How long was he in Nederland, do you know?
T: Two years. And then he went back to Holland and got married.
JS: Oh, is that right? Did he know •.. ?
T: Oh, yes.
JS: So the both of them were from Holland?
T: Yes .
JS: And th en the two of th em came back.
TERWEY 3
T: That time they carne to New York on a German liner; passenger
ship. That was their honeymoon.
JS: What year was this?
T: 1902 .
WS: Did he have a cabinet shop here or something?
T: No . Here, he bought a hundred acres of land and rice farmed
for two years and then he went in to the truck farming business
and then in the dairy business.
WS: He covered the farmer .•.
T: He wanted to be a farmer. He worked off and on, went,
every two years or so, in different parts of the United States.
He and my mother. He worked in furniture stores, lumber yards.
He could always get a job.
WS: Was he over in Africa around the time of th e Boer War?
T: That's when it happened but he didn't know about it. The
Dutch company, he worked for a Dutch company, they told them
all to leave. So he was in the middle of the ocean before
they told him that that Boer War was going on. Otherwise,
you know, they would have all stayed. The fault was them because
they didn't like the English men.
WS: He didn't get in to any fighting then?
T: No.
WS: How did he meet your mother? going back, b efore ...
T: He knew her before he went to Africa.
WS: He got all of his schooling in Holland then. What grade
school did they have over there?
T: Eighth grade.
TERWEY
IVS: Eighth grade.
T: Then they had to go to a trade school.
WS: How long was that? About a four year apprentice or
something?
T: I don't know.
4
WS: I know they went long enough so they knew what they could
do.
T: Yes.
JS : Did he ever say much about the conditions in South Africa?
Could he see it leading up to the Boer War?
T: No, I don't guess he did. But he did know later on that
Englishmen would always wait until the natives there, not the
black natives, the Dutch natives would have villages made and
they would come in and just take 'em over, because they didn't
have all the guns and stuff like the English did.
JS: They must have been married quite a while before you we r e
born because you look so much younger than ...
T: They had other children; they lost some children before I
was born. I was born in '22.
JS: Were you one of the youngest? You were" the youngest .
IVS: In other words your brothers and sisters all died?
T: I had three sisters.
IVS: All deceased.
T: Yes.
JS: Where was your farm in relation to Nederland?
T: Right here.
JS: Right here where this house is?
TERWEY 5
T: Yes, we had an old house right back there where the funeral
home is now. There is a funeral home there now. But we used
to have 100 acres.
JS: So you have lived here, right here in this house all your
life?
WS: Did they build this home or buy it or what ... ?
T: They built it.
WS: They built this?
built
T: Yes. Th e y It he old 0 n e, too .
WS: What year did they build thi s one, approximately?
T: I think it was around 1930; I don't remember exactly.
WS: When did you get out of school? You went through high
school here in Nederland?
T: Yes.
WS: You graduated when?
T: In '39.
WS: I beat you by four years.
JS: I was wondering about the tie s with Holland. Did they
still maintain pretty strong ties with Holland even after your
ch ildren were born? You said they kept goin~ b ack to Holland.
T~ Yeah, he kept going back when he was, like he went to Canada,
he went back to Holland then to Africa and came back. Then he
came here but he never went back. And my mother never went back.
JS: Family, involved in farming, and everything, he couldn't
go back.
T: He had a brother and sister that came here later; later years.
JS: Are they around Nederland?
TERWEY 6
T: Yes. They're dead now.
JS: Were they in the farm with your father? What did they do?
T: No . For a while the brother-in-law and the brother worked
at a dairy farm in Port Arthur. The ~ates Model Dairy Farm. He
was a millionaire, "Bet a Million Gates". He had a model farm
in Port Arthur. Later on they went to work at Tex ... ? Company.
WS: We were told earlie r about some dairy truck or something ...
everybody seems to associate with your father.
a unique truck.
T: No, it's what they had in those days.
WS: He delivered milk to the houses in this . .• ?
T: No. He always sold it wholesale.
WS: Did they have creameries in the area then?
I guess it was
T: Yes . He went in in 1921, the year before I was born.
WS:
T:
WS:
T:
WS:
T:
Went into the diary you mean?
Uh huh.
He kept at it for quite a few years?
23 years.
Retired then?
Quit, when he was 72.
JS: He saw a lot of changes, and you with him, saw quite a lot
of changes. Instead of coming in to town and selling milk to
different houses, he took it to a who l esaler.
T: Yes.
JS: Lik e your creamery.
T: Port Arthur.
WS: Did he have to go twice a day or did he keep the milk in
TERWEY 7
the evening for the next day?
T: Yes, that's how he did it.
WS: How did he keep it cold?
T: Ice.
WS: You had ice?
T: Yeah, they had ice then.
JS: (Were you) involved locally that we should be bringing out
more?
T: Not especially.
Bet a Million Gates that she was talking about was very
prominent in Port Arthur history. Martha has been to Holland
and has cousins over there that she keeps up with. And they
visit her.
JS: Have you been back often?
T: Once.
JS: One thing I wanted to speak about, did you speak Dutch in
the family when you were growing up?
T: Yes. I didn't know how to speak English 'til I went to school.
My mother and daddy did but they wanted me to keep that Dutch
tongue so they wouldn't speak English to me. ' But I knew my numbers
and my ABC's.
JS: In English?
T: Yes.
WS: Was it pretty difficult for you?
T: No. Kids pick it up like that. (Snap of the fingers) That's
why I don't know why they talk so much about this Vietnamese
language and Spanish language. Why they have to ... They keep that
TERWAY 8
up anyway . They don't need to teach it in school.
JS: They can have the best of two worlds because you can have
this one language at home and the English language. It's great.
Then you started school here in Nederland?
T: Yes.
JS: Did you finish the high school here?
T: Eleven grades we had when I went to school.
WS: Did you get all of them here or did you have to go somewhere
else?
T: No. I got all of them here.
JS: What changes were in his farming. I suppose he started out
with mules and horses . Did he at first?
T: I guess so.
JS: You don't remember that?
T: I don't remember.
JS: As far as you remember, it was tractors?
T: No, he didn't have tractors. He was out of that business then,
just diary. Dairy business.
Martha has loaned some of his old things to the Windmill
(Museum). We have several old farm implements that her father
used.
T: I had some things in the San Antonio museum. (Institute of
Texan Cultures)
In the Dutch exhibit.
T: I don't have it now.
JS: That's one of the first places I'm going to go when I get
back home because I know the area, but you know, it hasn't meant
TERWEY 9
that much to me. But now I've heard you and Marie have some
things there so I'm real anxious to go back and r ead the history.
T: My mother and daddy's picture is still there. I had some
baby elephants tusks.
Peacock feathers.
T: And a cane made out of ebony wood with an ivory tip and an
ivory handle.
WS: They got those in South Africa, probably.
T: Yes, He was in Pretoria, Johannesburg. I heard him talk
about that. And Durb~, Capetown, the island of Madagascar,
that's right off of the coast. I've h eard h im talk about ~bat
and what a beautiful beach it was over ther e in Africa. Have
to walk for long distances on that white sand .
in the water, it was so shallow long before ...
WS: You mean walk out into .. .
You could walk
T: Yes. In all the places where they were fighting so much.
JS: One thing that I've wondered about through this interviewing
today and talking to several people who had parents that came
from Holland. I wonder if they met up with many rough seas or
any experiences like that?
T: Yeah. My daddy said he can't understand, at home he was
lying on the feather bed and on the sea he slept on the anchor
rope . Then sometimes the sea was so rough when he was lying
in his bunk he had to hold himself like that to keep from falling
out of the bunk. And the waves were so high it went over the
mast of the ship ; the waves were so high . But he liked it. He
said he got sick
TERWEY 10
every time but he ... The first time, you know, after he got rid
of it, he was fine again. He liked it better than anything.
JS: How about your mother, did she ever say much about her trip
over?
T: When she came over she was seasick the whole time. She had
to stay below most of the time because she was seasick. But
she must have not been too seasick because at one time, they
won first prize in dancing! My daddy said if he ever did that
again, next time they were going not first class, they were
going second class because he said you can get there just as
quick. It was an awful lot cheaper. They got to sit at the
captain's table .
JS: Because they had won this contest?
T: No, it was because they were first class.
WS: What were they dancing in those days, I wonder, do you know?
T: My daddy learned to dance in Africa. He went to a dance
club in Africa. And he was trying to teach me how to dance and
I was too young and it was funny to me and all I did was giggle.
He got mad . He learned how to dance the polka, the mazurka, the
waltz. He didn't dance the waltz like they do now. He had a
lot of steps. Now they just make one step and wait three and
go another step and wait three. He did all these steps .
JS: Did he ever mention the food coming over on the ship?
T: No, I don't think .•. well, on their German liner they did.
They had good food there. They had ice cream that was in the
shape of a swan. I remember my mother and daddy telling me
that.
TERWEY 11.
T: They went to Denver, Colorado, and Portland, Oregon, Los
Ange les, California. In Fort Worth, on their way back, my daddy
could have had a lifetime job in a furniture store; a furniture
factory. But h e didn't want that. He didn't like the smell of
all that varnish and g lue. He liked the open air.
Voice: Every time the y came back to Nede rland.
W. S. : He had farming in his blood.
T: Yes. Well, his father at one time had a dairy farm for
awhile. But they lived in the City of Amsterdam part of the
time. When he had his farm, they lived outside Amsterdam.
W.S.: What breed of cows did he have for his dairy, do you know?
T: Started out with Holstein because he bought the cows from
that Gates Model Dairy Farm. Th ey had all Holstein. So he
started out with Holsteins and later he had J e rseys and Guernseys.
W. S • : Someone we interviewed earlier was telling that the flies
and ticks were very tough on dairy cattle ...
T: Flies and ticks, I remember.
W.S. On their skin that was not as thick as the range cattle.
T: Noo That's right.
J . S. : How many cows was he milking?
T:
on,
I think •.• the first .•. we milked by hand all the time. Later
we had milking machines. And I helped more then. I think he
milked 25. It wasn't a big dairy, you know, 25 at the most.
But he had 50 or more cows and calves.
J.S.: Did he raise his own hay and feed for them?
T: No .
W. S. : Of course, you had pasture the year around. We forget.
TE RWEY 12.
T: That's true.
W.5. Right about now they have to put their cows in the barn,
at least nights.
T: I heard on the r adio this morning that it was so cold in
Minnesota .•. 20 and 30 degrees at night and 40 high in the daytime.
J.5.: Did he ever mention any problems that he had in adjusting ~o
things here after coming from Holland? Your mother and him?
T: Well, he said the mosquitos were so bad, he didn't know
why he ever stayed here. Especially when they started rice
farming. That's where they were really bad . They had to wear
long sleeves. My mother had to put newspapers in her stockings
to keep the mosquitos from biting. All the people that lived
down here did that.
J.5.: When he went from dairy farming to rice farming, did he
have to do too much change in the land?
T: No, he was in rice farming when he was first here.
J.5.: It was from the rice farming to the dairy ..
T: He went to truck farfuing, vegetables.
J.5.: It looks that he would have to drain that because it was
rice farming and you have to have it so wet. When he went to
truck farming, what changes did he have to make?
T: I don't know. I don't remember.
W.5.; Did he irrigate some? For his truck farming?
T; I know that rice farm I heard him talk about, they made
ditches and drawn by a horse, mule and ploughad and different
things. They had wells . Plenty of water around here.
TERWEY 13.
Voice: Anything you can remember about dairy farming?
T: We went to the truck farm to see if we could sell a bunch
of turnips for a ni cke l in Port Arthur .
J.S.: A whole bunch of turnips for a nickel and they couldn't sell
them.
W.S . : Didn't you have to ge t to workin' on the truck farm?
h elp pulling the vegetables and stuff!
Did you
T: We were in the dairy when I was .•. but I didn't s~ick around
that truck garden ... old enough, when I was 17, I think. I used to
take some of the milk.
W.S.: Did you have to have a driver's license in those days?
T: Yeah. But I drove three or four years ..• I didn't have a
driver's lic e nse.
Voice: When I first drove, we didn't have a license.
remember when you didn't have to have one in Texas.
of th e year, but ...
T: Well, Daddy had driver's licenses.
I can
I'm not sure
J.S.: There weren't, probablY, too many cars around, trucks, around
Nederland.
T: No.
Voice: Did he deliver the milk twice?
T : No, he just took it once to the pasteurizing plant in Port
Arthur. In the early days it seemed l ike somebody came over here
and picked it up. That's before they had the pasteurizing plant.
Raw milk. But he never did, as far as I know, he never did deliver
it retail. He always sold it to somebody else that did the
retailing.
TERWEY 14.
Voice: Where was that pasteurizing plant?
T: Well, it was Townsends and Sabine Dairies, h e sold it th e re.
Later on, he sold it to Wallings right next door.
Voice: Well, they just went out of business a few years ago.
W. S.: Your memories of school days that are any different than ...
any incidents?
T: I didn't get into any trouble. I just let others get into
trouble. I don't do like they do now . They talk about peer
pressure •..
J . S.: We never heard of that.
T: Well, there
nothing like now.
were, maybe, just a few incidents but it was
But they asked you to go someplace with them, do
something, or something and I'd think to myself, I'd think, Mama .•.
you see, Mama was 45 when I was born, so I'm used to older people.
And I thou ght now my mama wouldn't like that if I did that . My
mama would worry about me. Of course, I didn't tell them kids
that. I said, "No, I don't think I'll go; or I don't think I'll do
that.'~ And they'd say, "Oh, you're just yeller." They couldn't
say no more and the y left.
J . S. : What kind of social activities did they have here then? Do
you remember that?
W.S.: The church . • .
J. S . The main social activity?
T: Well, part time, part time, I didn't ... but they didn't have
much social life we had .. • at Halloween at s chool we used to have a
spook convention. I remember that. Called a spook convention.
W. S.: Did you get all dressed up in costume?
TERWEY 15 .
T: Yes . They had it in the gym . You could huy ... and l i ttle
booths, you know, they had the fishing booth.
like that. You could buy things in the gym.
W.S.: How many in your graduating class?
T: That I can't rememb e r.
W.S.: Were there several; were there 20?
T: Oh, there was more than that.
All kind of things
IV.S.: The reason I ask, I came out of a class of nine.
T: No, there was .•. maybe 75.
Voice: You must have seen pictures of the class about that time.
T: Yes .
Voice: In fact, my husband graduated in '37 and his . •. well,
there are three rows, about ten in a row. I would say his class
anyway, was between 30 and 35, something like that.
T: There was more than that in our class.
IV.S .: Were ther e school buses by the time you graduated?
T: Yes .
Voice: You went to Central SchOOl, didn't you?
T: Yes.
Voice: The old high school.
T: No. The old high school was torn down . It's the YMCA.
Voice: One time it was the old high school, which is where the
ny" is
J.S.: Most of your activities ... just come home quite often, I
suppose, with the older children, a lot of your activities were
family r elated.
T: They had all died before I was born.
TERWEY 16.
J. s. The older children?
T: My sisters, you mean?
J .5 . Uh huh.
T: They were infants when they died.
But no, I was sorta going around, Climbing trees and
riding bicycles because we didn't hardly have any neighbors.
They were far apart. We were out in the country.
W.S. : How close was your nearest neighbor, then?
or so?
A mile away
T: It was where Walling's Dairy used to he, the Streetmans
us ed to live down Avenue H. The dairy used to be up here and
later on it was .. . would that be a quarter of a mile?
Yoice: Might be something like that.
W.. You came out of high school in '3D, what was it?
T: '3i.
W.S.: Oil was the main industry here related to petrochemicals.
T: Then, after the war, we had all these other chemica l plants.
We just had three refinerys here. Magnolia, Texaco and the
~ulf at Port Arthur , and Pure Oil in Port Neches. That is all
we had at first.
W.S.: I wonder when that name Golden Triangle came into being?
That yOU hear so much about.
T: It's been there ever since I've been here, I believe.
W.S.: I just wo ndered if it came in aliout the time of Spindle
Top or something.
Yoice: I doubt that.
T: I think since the war.
TERWEY 17.
W.S. World War II.
T: Yes.
Voice: I don't know who started that . It's Heen around awhile
but it do e sn't go way back . Yo u mentioned s'e veral interesting
things I'd never heard before about winning first place with
couples dancing. And that h e made the railroad cars in South
Africa; worked on the railroad cars.
J.S.: Did he ever go into cabinetmaking here; did he build many
thin g s for th e home?
T: He didn't want his house to look like a furniture store.
I've got a lot more furniture now than when he was living.
Voice: You said first your brother-in-law ..• Oh, I know you said
they went to work for Texas Company, didn't you? Tryin g to
follow up on things.
J.S.: It's interesting but we've got another app o intment at 4:15.
I hate to cut it short because I always feel like there's more
that we want to say.
Voice: Do you think of an ything else, Martha?
T: Well, yOU know, when the first ones came here, the older
Dutchmen, they couldn't talk English. And t 'hey got things a
little mixed up .
W.S.: What do you mean by that?
T: Well, I can't think of too much now ..• That street that
goes, the Pure Atlantic Road, I knew that and Marie must have
written it in something, too. Somebody ask e d some man, this
Dutchman, I can't remember who, where he lived. And he said
he lived on the ~eepalina Road. Remember that? There was a
TERWEY 18 0
T: sign off the road in the ditch that said, "pipeline."
And he said he lived on the Peepalina Road. (Laughter)
J .5.: Did they stay together, the Dutch people, or did they
mingle out in the community?
T: Well, there was Dutch people and the English people came,
tOG o Oh, and one time there was a cow died right on the corner,
where the Nederland Pharmacy is now.
Voice: Right downtown.
T: Yeah o Boston Avenue. The cow died and nobody wanted to
claim it. So you know, every once in a while cows die of that,
sharbone, they called it, I don't know what ... is it anthrax?
We called it sharbone but it had another name to it.
in those days, you know, a lot of them died of that.
Anyway,
No one
wanted to claim it but they couldn't leave it there so it had
to be burned. So everybody brought wood and things and put on
it; I guess they put some kerosene, gasoline, whatever they had.
My aunt and uncle were living across the railroad track there in
one of those houses. She said, Oh, did they have a mourning
party that night o
of that o
Because when that fire started and the smell
Most of the cows around there, my daddy had 'em in fence,
but most of 'ern didn't have 'em in a fence. They just roamed
loose. All the cows came around there and they bawled and bawled
all ni ght lon go (Laughter) I remember my aunt used to tell me
what a mourning; they mourned all night long.
W.S.: They were mourning cows.
J.S.: This is intere~tingo You say a lot of them did not keep
TERWEY 19.
J.S.: th em fenced in.
T: Oh, no. I can remember Kirtis Streetman . • . it couldn't
have been too long ago •.. he had his dairy over there. He used
to tell his children and his children never did believe him)
)
that he didn't have his fenced-in or the fence s broke and they
n ever fixed 'em. He said he used to have to go uptown early in
the morning to get his cows out of the picture show . (Laughter)
They had a picture show up on Boston Avenue . And they had this ...
you know how the ticket office is in the middle and then you
walked around. His cows were laying over there and everything.
And I asked him maybe they took in a double feature and went to
s.l eep. (Laughter) So he had to go 'way over there and wake up
his cows and bring them home.
Way down the road there, there was about three different
dairys. They were right close to gether; they were kin to each
other, brother and brother, you know. And they used to see which
one could get up the earliest in the morning to milk each other's
cows. (Laughter)
Voice: I hadn't heard that tale.
W.S.: It seemed like the truck farmers must ' have had a dim view
of this non-fencing .
J.S o : Didn't they get into the gardens? I would think that
would have been a problem.
W. S.: Maybe everybody fenced their gardens.
T: Maybe so. I can't remember.
I don't know whether you want to put this down or not.
There were two men. They wanted. o .my daddy told me this ... my
mama, oh .•. they wanted a slop jar ... and they didn't ... they
TERWEY 20.
T: looked it up in the dictiona,y ... they had a Dutch-Engli5h
dictionary . • . well, for a nice way of saying it in Dutch, you'd
call it a nacht-spiegel, so they looked that up in English ...
well, it come out as a night looking-glass.
with all these different shapes of mirrors.
So they come out
Finally I guess,
somehow or other, they got an understanding of what they wanted.
Close up here . . . that used to be that Cooke's Grocery Store,
remember Cooke's Grocery Store?
Voice: It was a mercantile store.
W.S.: Something I haven't asked anyone else about is the trapping.
Did they have a lot of muskrats; did the y do a lot of trapping?
In this ... seemed like they would in this marsh country. They
did not have too many wild animals around here then that you ..•
Voice: They didn't make fur coats down here.
W.S. You didn't have coyotes or .•. ?
T: Yeah, I remember h earing the coyotes out th ere.
W.S.: Did you have deer down here, whit e tail?
T;
W.S.
T:
No.
Probably cotton tails.
Oh yeah, we had a lot of cotton tail rabbits.
N.S.: Armadillos here in this area?
T: Yes, I remember the armadillos.
N.S.: Possum?
T: Oh, yes. I've had possums a couple of years ago. Come
to my back porch, they can get in there ... and I'd feed them cat
food.
N.S.: How about wild ducks and geese. Did you ever ... did they
TERWEY 21.
N. S.: come flying oyer this area?
T: Oh, yes. I can remember my daddy s.aying he had a bunch
of ducks and geese, too . He had them in the canal. And then
one time, some wild ones came along. And the wild ones flew
off and the tame ones flew off with them.
N.S.: They decided that was a better future. Did they have
many chickens in this area? Did they raise chickens?
T: Yeah. My daddy had •.• oh yeah, they had a lot of chickens.
Voice: Down the road here was a coup l e of thousand of chickens
there. Just half a block from here.
W.S. This is for eggs or do they raise broilers, too?
T: No, they have fryers.
Voice: It wasn't an egg business; it was more for fryers.
T: But is was eggs, too. We had 150 chickens is the most we
ever had.
W.S.: It seems rather odd, of course we've read earlier this
year, where they had terrific los ses, the heat wave that hit
Georgia. You thought it would (have) been as hot here almost
in August as it was •..
Voice: We've heard up in East Texas where there were a lot of
them lost.
Voice: Just about three years ago that happened. Here we have
moisture from the Gulf; that helps. And the Gulf breeze. It's
cooler here than it is farther inland.
T : My father had turkeys. Never did have hogs. He didn't
want hogs.
N.S.: Hogs and furniture were not his .. .
TERWEY 22.
T: But he had turkeys, ducks and geese. He had to get rLd
of the ganders because they were like watch dogs. If anybody
came, they would fly at them.
W.S.: Do you call this lumber wains coating or anything like
that? Do you know what I mean?
terminology.
I just wondered about the
Voice: Oh, shoot, I know that but I can't think of it.
Beaded ceiling; they called it beaded ceiling in those days.
W.S.: It's tongue and groove, if you remember, isn't it?
Voice: They called it beaded ceiling in those days.
W. S.: I see you have a beautiful floor in there. It looks
like maple.
T: Long leaf yellow pine.
J.S.: It ' s been real interesting. We've got to go on. I hate
to cut this short but .•. I think we're just getting started
it sounds like. We do thank you, Martha, and appreciate the
time that you 've taken to let us come .
END TAPE I, Side 1, 32 - 33 minutes