THE INSTITUTE OF TEXAN CULTURES
ORAL HISTORY PROGRAM
INTERVIEW WITH: Eugene O. Goldbeck
INTERVIEWER: Ingrid Kokinda
DATE: January 14, 1983
PLACE: Goldbeck living room, San Antonio, Texas
K: Mr. Goldbeck, I would like to know when you were born
and where.
G: I was born on Guenther (5150) Street in the old
Meerscheidt addition. As far as I know, I was told I was
born, I was there but I don't quite remewber. I vaguely
remember the doctor going out and telling my daddy that it
was a boy. Anyway, I was supposed to have been born on the
4th day of November , 1 892 . Actually, I can also prove I was
born in 1891. Probably the only person in San Antonio that
has 2 birth certificates.
K: How did that happen?
G: Well, World War I, I was trying to get a commission as
an officer and had to produce my birth certificate and they
couldn't find it. So I got my mother and the old doctor
that brought me into the world. They said I was born in
1891. Well, then they discovered the original birth
certificate saying I was born in 1892.
K: Were you the first child in your family?
GOLDBECK
G: No. An older brother, two years before I was born ; born
in 1890.
K: Did you have any sisters, also?
G: I had a sister that was born in 1894 and another one born
in 1900.
K: But you grew up in San Antonio. You lived on Guenther
Street.
G: Yes. I've spent about half my life roaming around the globe.
The rest of the time, I was right here in San Antonio.
K: Do you remembe r to which grammar school you went? In San
Antonio?
G: There was only one at the time. The old German-English
School which was converted into what they called Brackenridge
Grammar School.
K: On Alamo Street.
G: Yes. Right across from Beethoven Hall .
K: Do you remember any classmates that became famous in San
Antonio or that you recollect?
2
G: Well, I remember quite a few. I'm the last one of the bunch.
I graduated from Main Avenue High School after grammar school,
Main Avenue High . that was the only high school we had in
San Antonio, Main Avenue H.S. And as far as I know right now
the only classmates, schoolmates, that's still alive is old
Walter McAllister.
K: Did you go to grammar school with him too, in the same,
class?
GOLDBECK 3
G: Not in the same class. He was ahead of me. Class ahead
of me. The rest of 'em are dead. I can mention names.
Huntress was Sheriff here; he has been dead for ten years;
many of 'em, all dead. I'm the last one. The only reason
I ' m still here , the old fellow downstairs doesn't want Hell
polluted any worse than it is . Says, "Keep him up there;
can't use him. 11
K: Mr. Goldbeck, we know that you have two initials. E.
and o. What do they stand for?
G: Eugene Omar. I was named after Omar the Tentmaker .
K: Really?
G: My father thought of that. . the old famous poem.
(ed : The Rubaiyat). Anyway they named me Omar.
K: And your family, Mr. Goldbeck your father was born
in San Antonio? Fritz Goldbeck?
G: My father was born, he was the first boy born in
Comfort , Texas.
K: From an immigrant family.
G: Yes. Was born in Comfort.
K: They came from . ?
K: They came from Germany.
K: The Goldbecks.
G: Yes. Came from Germany. Landed at • I think they
first came to Galveston and took a small boat from there to
Indianola. From Indianola they came over to New Braunfels
in ox carts. From there , they went to Comfort. My father's
father started a store there in Comfort .
GOLDBECK 4
G: His brother was an advocate.
K: Advocate is a lawyer. Do you recollect what kind of a
store it was?
G: It was just a general store. He finally sold it to
Faltin.
K: And it's still standing. That old Fachwerk-Haus was
built by your grandfather?
G: Yes. The Faltin store, yes.
K: That's a little, small store. Yeah, I remember that.
And then your father was Fritz Goldbeck.
G: My father was Benno T.
K: Benno.
G: Benno Theodore. B. T . Goldbeck.
K: And he came to San Antonio after he married or?
G: He came to San Antonio before he was married. As far as
I know my father and my mother were married in about 1888,
1889.
K: In San Antonio.
G: 1888, I think, in San Antonio. My father was connected
with his brother-in-law, George Koerner. George had a big
commission store here in San Antonio. Wholesale grocery
outfit. My father worked for him for a long time. And then
he finally ... well he was auditor for the city for a
while. They lived here in San Antonio fo r many years.
K: Mr . Goldbeck, I also know that you are a very famous
photographer.
G: Infamous.
GOLDBECK 5
K: We all have seen your photographs. When was the first time
that you ever took a camera into your hand? Will you please tell
that story?
G: I imagine, 1901. William McKinley, who was President of the
United States, came to San Antonio on a visit. If I remember
right it was the fourth of May, 1901. A one-day visit. They
lined all the school kids up at Travis Park all with little flags.
All the schools were given a holiday to greet the President. My
older brother had an old box camera and I borrowed this box cam­era
from him, and when William McKinley drove by in a carriage I
had to break ranks and went out into the street and take a pic­ture.
That was the first picture I made in 1901.
K: The film--you didn't develop it; you took it to someplace.
Of course you took it to someplace else.
G: I think I developed it myself. I'd been fooling around
with . . at that time, you could buy what they called the M Q
tubes; M Q tubes. All you had to do was put a certain amount
of water with it and make your developer. And you had another
little package there that made your hypo. I used to mess around
myself.
K: Did the photographs come out nicely?
G: As far as I know; it's up at the University. They say they
can't find 'em. I think I photographed every President since,
either while they were President, or before they were President,
or after they were President. Everyone of 'em.
K: Do you have a photograph of Ronald Reagan?
GOLDBECK 6
G: Oh, yes. He was here and made a talk to the Junior J C
Convention here about six months ago .
K: What did you do then with this photograph of president
MCKinley? Did you keep it for yourself or did you .
sell it?
G: No. I just showed it around. I didn't have sense
enough to try to sell it. Of course , later on, I sold my
pictures to newspapers and magazines , anybody that would buy
them. But I didn't have enough sense to try to sell them.
K: You gave them away .
G: Well, I gave a few, probably . At that time, I also made
pictures of the kids in school , schools. Used to sell 'em
for a nickel apiece; nickel per print. And then I'd go
after the teachers after school sometimes. And I'd charge
them ten cents per picture .
K: And during high school, would you take pictures of your
fellow students?
G: I made quite a few. And I also made , after school, I
did other work, too. I graduated in 1910.
K: That was from Main High School, right?
G: Yeah. That was the only high school we had. Now
they've got about 25 of ' em.
K: What was your favorite subject in school?
G: I liked mathematics more than anything else , I think.
These children nowadays , they come out of school and they
know nothing about the world. They never heard of
Afghanistan; they couldn't tell you what continent it was
GOLDBECK 7
G: on even. They know nothing about history. They know
nothing about geography. I don't know what in the world
they learn. They can't add or subtract, or anything else.
They've got to have a little computer or something. So I
don't know; they don't learn very much.
K: After you graduated from high school, did you go on to
college or did you go into business?
G: I put in just about one year is all, in college.
K: In San Antonio?
G: NO. Mainly in New York City. Columbia University.
K: You didn't have a major, then; what you wanted to do?
G: No. I'm dumb. I haven't got near the education I'd
I ike to have. I may go back to school again one of these
days.
K: You can be a teacher.
G: Be the oldest pupil in school.
K: What would you like to take? What subject would you
like to. .?
G: Well, I'd like to brush up on my German; like to learn
Spanish; and I'd like to take some more mathematics. Higher
mathematics.
K: We have a lot of choice tOday in universities in San
Antonio. Mr. Goldbeck, what did you do then when you came
back from New York City? You came back to San Antonio?
G: Yes, I did.
K: And you went to work in San Antonio?
G: Well, most of the time I've always worked for myself. I
GOLDBECK 8
G: haven't done too much for other people. I worked for the
Fox Company years ago. Car l Newton started the Fox Company .
Carl Newton III is now President of Fox Company. It was his
grandfather who started the Fox Company. He bought out the old
Fox studio on Alamo Plaza.
K: And you went to work for him?
G: Yes, I worked for him for. . Before I did that, I used
to work for the Alamo Camera Company. It was also on Alamo
Plaza. That was about 1907 or 08, along in there.
K: This was while you were a high school student?
G: I worked after school and on Saturdays. And also Sundays
many times. I worked for Carl Newton twice. Once before World
War I and after the war was over. Came back to San Antonio and
worked for him again . Had charge of his finishing department one
time and had charge of his Kodak department the second time.
And I'm the oldest one. Everyone of the men that ever
worked in there at the time I was working for Newton, are all
dead. Everyone of 'em. Newton's brother is dead; old man
W 's dead; old man Welch; al l dead. All had charge of
different departments. They are all dead .
K: There must be a reason why you are still with us.
G: Yeah, I'm still here.
K: Mr. Goldbeck , you're famous for your panoramic photos. I
understand you have a patent on your camera.
G: I have severa l patents built into my camera, yes.
K: When did the thought come to you that you wanted to
GOLDBECK 9
K: perfect on a camera?
G: First, the regular circuit camera, take it up high.
First, if you've got a group of men in front of you, couple
of thousand men you want to photograph. You have to have a
high tripod or if you tilt the normal circuit camera down on
the opposite sid~build a high tower. You're shooting up at
the moon. With my cameras, I can turn 'em any given number
of degrees and maintain the same degree of declination for
an entire arc. That's one of my patents . Another patent
I have. I made a picture of Kurfuerstendamm Stras in Berlin ,
cars moving up and dm.,n street; no movement in the photo at
all. You couldn't make a picture like that with a regular
circuit camera. The fastest exposure you've got is 1/12th
of a second. Well, I shot that picture in 125th of a
second. That is another patent I have; very unusual. I
can do things with my cameras no other circuit cameras can
~y
do without~patents.
K: But you built up that mechanism yourself.
G: Yes.
K: And then you patented it here in San Antonio .
G: Patented in Washington. Patent Office. I had to get
patent lawyers. It took me a couple of years to get the
thing t hrough.
K: What year was that?
G: I don 't remember for sure. It's been a long time ago.
I'd say it was about 19 . . oh, just off-hand, I'd say
about 1921 or '2, somewhere a l ong there.
K: You were pretty much a free-lancer most of your life.
G: Oh, yes .
GOLDBECK
K: I know that you just returned from China. But before
China and the Great Wall , which was the high point of
your .•. what was the photograph that excited you the
most? That you were after the most?
10
G: I think the photograph of Machu picchu. Another I'd say
was getting all five pyramids and the Sphinx in one
picture.
K: It takes a lot of traveling to go to the points that
you've been, around the world. You've probably covered the
most interesting, or most famous places in the world. How
often do you travel? Do you go at least once a year?
G: I'd say at least once a year , yes.
After I came back from China, I took another trip.
Went from the Canadian Rockies . took quite a few
pictures up in the Canadian Rockies; made pictures of Banff
and the famous baronial-like castle hotel there; Lake
Louise; stopped off in Calgary and made pictures in Calgary
and Alberta. Also, made pictures in Denver. Before we came
back, went down to Seattle and made a picture there and made
a picture in Portland.
And since then, I've made another trip. East. with
Baltimore, Philadelphia, New York. made another picture
of New York. Made a picture of the new gambling deal there
in Atlantic City. So I never stay put for very long.
K: You went to China in May , didn't you?
G: I think it was April. Came back the latter part of
May .
GOLDBECK 11
K: And that was quite a trip, wasn't it?
G: Oh, yes. I was greatly surprised at the terrific change
that had taken place in China.
K: You were there the last time in .?
G: 45 ye ars ago, 1937.
K: You were in mainland China?
G: Yes.
K: Shanghai, peking?
G: I was allover at that time. Tsientsen, Peking,
Shanghai .
K: Did you take photographs then, too, to compare to tOday?
G: I made a lot of photographs, yes. The official
panoramic pictures I made then I made for the military.
They had the 15th Infantry, one whole regiment up at
Tsientsen. I went up there and made pictures of the 15th
Infantry. Back in those days, I used to go up there every
three years, '34 t o '37. I photographed for the military
for 30 years or more . I was the only unofficial
photographer, but they always invited me back.
K: When was the first year that you photographed any
military?
G: 19. . oh, I'd say, when they had the first trouble
down in Me xico. When Pancho Villa was raising Cain. I got
the whole National Guard right here at Ft. Sam Houston. I
used to go out there and photograph those fellows. That was
in 1913, I guess. '12 or '13.
K: Did you ever see Pancho Villa?
GOLDBECK
G: Yes.
K: Did you photograph him, also?
G: Yes.
K: You knew Zapata, too?
12
G: Yeah. All of the bandits, I got 'em in one picture.
There was Zapata, Pancho Villa, Orozco, and got some that
were not bandits. same picture. Francisco Madero who
l a ter became President he was in with these bandits.
And I got Carranza who later became President. They were
all in this group, down in Chihuahua.
K: In Mexico. They had quite a few foreign correspondents
there, too. Did you ever meet any of those? Foreign
correspondents from Europe? They were sending newspaper
people down there, too, in Chihuahua, photographers.
G: Casually. Never.
K: That was quite an excitement, wasn't it, with Pancho
Villa?
G: Well, I heard they were going to be together, I just
went down there. It wasn't very exciting to me.
K: One time you got the whole United States fleet in one
photo, didn't you?
G: Yes. They had maneuvers in Panama Bay. . . I think
that was in 1936 if I remember right. They had the Atlantic
fleet come through the Canal and join the Pacific fleet.
The Pacific fleet came down mainly from Hawaii and San
Diego. Had a rendezvous there in Panama Bay.
K: And you heard about that and went or did you happen to
GOLDBECK
K: be there?
G: As far as I know, there was no secret to it. Read
about that it was going to take place.
K: And you traveled down there .
G: I used to go to Panama every three years, stay down
there about three months every time . First time I went
there when they opened the Canal in 1914.
13
K: You were down there. Did you take photos then, too?
G: Yes. Didn't make a panoramic , though. Fact of the
matter is, I think what got me started on panoramic was one
of the fel lows down there made a picture of one of the big
British battleships going through the Canal. And he had a
16 by 20, I think. not 16 by 20, he had an 8 by 20
banquet camera. And he was telling me how many pictures he
sold. I thought, "My God. I'm going to hit this new stuff
right now."
K: And it's been good to you these years, haven't they?
G: Yeah. I think so.
K: Your name is carried on nOt., first your son and now your
grandson has it .
G: Well, he's got his own business. I don't want to
detract from him. He's built up a wonderful business of
his own.
K: Yeah, but if his grandfather hadn't been in photography,
he might now have done it.
G: My son took over for 35 years and he's got more sense
and he tells me, "You don't need the money, why don 0 t you quit it
GOLDBECK 14
G: altogether." He just takes things easy . He's going to
Nairobi the first of February .
K: Shooting with his camera , I bet .
G: Well, he ' ll take his camera. It's a p l easure trip for him.
K: What drives you , Mr . Goldbeck? Why don't you retire and
take it easy like your son?
G: Well, I ' ve retired about 8 times, but I don't have sense to
stay retired .
K: Do you have the urge to just go and you just need this one
perfect shot?
G: I think the old photo bug must have bitten me awfully bad or
awfully hard; it just got in my blood. I see things. I say ,
"My God, why didn't I make a picture of that?" What I want to
do now, I don't know whether it will transpire or not, I want to
go across Siberia. I want to take Marco Polo's o l d trail and
follow Marco Polo through Siberia .
I ' d like to go over to Canton , get on a train there,
Peking, and go right straight across to Moscow. Stop off at all
those main places in Siberia. I don't know whether it will work
out or not. It's a dream, anyhow .
K: Wonderful . But your camera equipment is quite cumbersome ,
isn't it?
G: Oh, yes. My 2 Camera Cases weigh 92 pounds. Two cases weigh
92 pounds.
K: When you go on a train trip like this, you keep the
GOLDBECK
K: camera equipment with you? Or do you put it on the
baggage. .?
15
G: Unfortunately, every time I've put it in baggage to my
sorrow. The camera itself, of course, one of these cases
has a tripod in it and all that sort of thing. The camera
itself, I don't risk it in the airplaneS anymore. Too many
times, I've had to tear the thing apart and work it allover
again.
The way they throw the luggage around, it was terrible.
You carry it on.
K: What kind of negatives do you use in your camera?
G: Well, now I generally use color film. Don't make many
black and whites anymore.
K: Is it only spool? How many shots do you ••. it must
be a large spool then, isn't it?
G: The spools are about 11 inches. The film itself is 10
inches. About 10 1/ 2 inch spool. The film is 10 inches
wide and it's about 7 feet long. They say it's 6 feet but
they generally give you an extra foot.
K: And do you have to special order your film?
G: Oh, yes. And you get one picture to a film.
K: To one spool.
G: And also it's $35.50 a roll. You've got to buy about
100 rolls or they won't even make 'em up for you.
K: Are they a special order from Kodak?
G: Yes.
K: Has Kodak been your supplier all these years since you
GOLDBECK
K: started?
G: Well, almost. Agfa for a while, but mainly Kodak. I
don't buy 100 rolls at a time. My grandson, he's really
busy. He buys 'em and I buy a dozen rolls off of him.
K: This is for the color film, right?
G: Yes.
K: And black and white?
16
G: Black and white is less expensive. It runs about $22.00
a roll. $20.00, I think it is.
K: All these negatives that you have from all • the
military photos that you ever took, of the regiments that
you took. You were out at Kelly, weren't you and at Brooks.
Did you take. .?
G: Yes. Brooks. Anyplace.
K: Ft. Sam and so on?
G: Not only here but wherever we had any military. I used
to go to Puerto Rico every 3 years, Panama every 3 years,
Philippines every three years, China every 3 years, go to
Hawaii every 3 years. Go up to Alaska, Chilicoot Barracks.
We had troops at Chilicoot. Wherever we had any troops.
West Point, all of the various units in the United States.
K: And your specialty was to assemble the men in the design
of their insignia and did this only once in a while?
G: Just once in a while was what it was. That was a real
job. I worked it all out. Takes weeks to get one of those
pictures. Just to work it out mathematically. It's all
worked out mathematically, even to the spot on the ground.
GOLDBECK
G: For every man we put a physical spot , a little one inch
square, white marker and nailed it into the ground, at a
mathematically designated point.
17
There were 21,765 men
photo.
in the large Air Force insignia
K: How many?
G: 21 ,765. And there's not a face hidden in t he entire picture .
Every face showed.
K: And for this photo, you had to build the tower, didn't you?
How high was that?
G: The tower was 222 feet , I think.
K: And you climbed the tower, didn't you , with your camera?
You had to pos ition your camera up there.
G: I used to climb every wireless tower in this country. The
army posts all had wireless towers, that was before the days of
TV. They had radio towers . I used to get up and get a bird's
eye view of the whole Post. I used to think after I qot. up 40
feet it wouldn't hurt me any worse if I fell 400.
K: And nothing ever happened to you?
G: Well, I'm still here.
I climbed one tower in Panama one time. It was a Navy
wireless tower, 505 feet. Later, I got on top of the Tower of
the Americas to take a picture of San Antonio. Had to get up
on top of the roof.
K: You had to get special permission, didn't you?
G: Practically a special act of Congress. Had to get up on
the roof . I can swing my camera up there to 300 degrees
GOLDBECK
G: of an arc.
K: Did the City Council have to give you permission?
G: A~ot of red tape with the thing.
K: You actually took a picture in Paris one time. Was that
at the time of the World's Fair?
18
G: It was the lOth anniversary of the signing of the Armistice.
The National Convention of the American Legion was invited over
there by the French government .
K: What year was that?
G: 1927.
K: And at that time, you got permission to build a tower on top
of the Grand Palais . How tall was that tower on the Grand Palais?
G: Oh , about 45 feet.
K: And the roof of the Grand Palais was .
G: Glass, and taking it down (the tower) part of it fell and
it cost me $700 to undo the damage that I had done.
K: When they took the tower down, they broke some of the glass.
Yes, the contractor let part of it fall and it damaged the roof.
K: But your photograph was quite famous too, wasn't it?
G: Yes, I felt good about it. I thought, "My God, I've got
a picture now that I'm sure a lot of people in Paris would like
to buy; a lot of tourists would like that." So I went back to
the Chief of Police , Chief of those Gendarmes there and I said,
"Look," in fact, I gave him a copy of it. I said, "We'd like
permission now to sell this on the streets of Paris. Many
GOLDBECK 19
Legionnaires would like to buy a copy." He demurred at first
and finally he said, "I'll give you one week ." I said, "Look,
I have a man with me from California and all I need is one man
in the set up. How about another set up in two different
p laces? "
K: Do you remember the spots?
G: Not off hand. We picked out a couple of spots there and
fo r a week's time, we took in money every k ind of money
you could think of according to the rate of exchange. Belgium,
German, French . . At the end of a week we had a little over
$7,000. I didn't know what we had. We filled up a suitcase
with money. Took it to the American Express Company and it
took ' em a half a day to figure out what we had. It was a little
over $7,000.
,
K: You were always fascinated with the building of the Opera
in Paris.
G: I used to think it was the most beautiful building in the
world. I still say it is number t wo . The Taj Mahal, there is
nothing that can compare with the Taj Mahal. And I've seen all
these places they claim are most beautiful. You go to Turkey
and they're ready to run a dagger down your back i f you argue
with them, even intimate that there i s a building more beauti-ful
than the Blue Mosque. And you go to Russia and they say ,
"Well, our St. Basil's Cathedral--there's nothing to compare
with it. The most beautiful building in the world." I've seen
all of the so-called most beautiful buildings.
GOLDBECK
K: And you've photographed them all, haven't you?
G: Yes.
20
K: The Red Square in Moscow, you photographed there, didn't
you? What year was that?
G: Pcl::wabJ,y after World War II. Things were very touchy.
And my wife and I were on a boat • this boat stopped in
the Black Sea port of Odessa for a day. I think we were
going to be there 3 days, that was it. I said, "Mama, this
is a chance; we can go up to Moscow. We've got enough time.
This is a good chance to go up and see MoscoW." So I took
my big camera. We got on a Russian plane, the seats are
about that wide, you know. I don't know how in the world a
large person could sit in them. Anyhow, we landed there.
They put us up in the Metropole Hotel. It was a nine story,
wooden hotel . . . wooden. And we were just about on the
top floor. I said, "Mama, we're in a real fire trap. If
this thing ever caught fire, you'd never get out." They had
two elevators in it. They were hydraulically operated
elevators. That was by water. And one of 'em wasn't
running. They were very slow.
Anyhow, the next morning I said, "I'm going to Red
Square and make a picture of Red Square." /1et a little
Russian girl there, some kind of a guide, tourist guide, or
something. Got to talking with her and she got hold of a
car for me, some kind of a taxi or something. Incidentally,
there is one word that I know of that is the same in any
language . Turkey, Russia, Germany, France, any
GOLDBECK 21
G: anywhere. O.K . I knew I didn 't dare ask for permission
to make this picture because I ' d never get it; or get anywhere
near it. So I just took a chance. I set my camera up in Red
Square and about 6 of these Russian police stared and gawked at
me and first thing you know about 200 Russians . never saw
a camera outfit like this . . I guess they figured anybody
had nerve enough to set up in Red Square must have gotten per­mission
from high and never asked me anything.
K: This must have been wonderful. And the day was perfect;
the weather was perfect to get.
G: Well, there was a very light snow. Very light snow.
K: Almost like filtering effect.
G: Very light snow. Not enough to hurt anything . I made a
sweep there that showed St . Basil's Cathedral clear around -­to
th armory, the whole works. The Kremlin, Lenin's tomb,
the whole thing in one picture. Even showed some Russian
cars.
K: So you were satisfied and you packed up and went back to
the hotel.
G: Yeah. Been over there a couple of times since.
Last t ime we went to Leningrad. Made a wonderful pic­ture
of Peter the Great ' s summer place. We were told it was
the largest palace that was ever built . Tremendous thing.
K: Larger than Versailles?
G: Said it was the largest palace that was ever bui lt.
GOLDBECK 22
G: It is a tremendously large palace. Whether it is true
or not, I don't know. Now it's a big museum of some kind.
They've got 250 fountains left and right of a canal that
extends all the way to the gulf of Finland, about 3 miles
away.
K: That was recently you went to Leningrad. It's a
colorful
G: Time flies. I imagine it was about 10 years ago. Time
flies. That was in color. It was impossible for me to make
color pictures up until about 15, maybe 17 years ago. I
pestered Eastman Kodak for 25 years trying to get 'em to
make color film wide enough for my camera. Color film was
available but for smaller pictures. About 17 years ago they
finally broke down and came out with film large enough for
my camera.
K: When Eastman Kodak had their hundredth anniversary, did
they include you in their exhibit?
G: No.
K: None of your photos.
G: When the Fox Company had their 75 year anniversary, and
I'm the last one of the old original bunch left, and they
didn't even invite me .
K: Short memories or uninformed. That's really something.
Mr. Goldbeck, how long after you came back from
Columbia, from New York, that you left San Antonio again,
when you were living in San Antonio and then you said once
that you bought a car and you packed up your
GOLDBECK
G: I guess within a year or so after I came back here.
Start ed going allover making pictures. Went to Hawaii;
went to Panama ; and d i fferent places.
K: And a l so up to Washington state , right? Oregon?
G: Oh, yes.
K: This one inci dent you had up there .
G: That was before I even got married. That was in 1914.
K: I 'm talking about the time before you got married .
G: I went over to the west coast . I was about starving to
death over there . I n San Francisco I was broke. And you
could live on five cents a day, believe it or not . The
saloons all had , at noon time , they all had free lunch.
K: With beer , righ t ?
G: And all you had to do was buy a schooner of beer. For a
nickel. And then you could have a free lunch . I did that
for a couple of weeks there.
23
K: Then in 1914 , did you have a car then already? Or did you
mostly train and then .
G: Train. I'm a little ahead of myself . I worked for the
southern Pacific Railroad for a whi l e. I was motor car eng in-eer
for ' em on the tracks , and I was photographer for 'em . And
when I wasn ' t busy at ei t her one of those, they had me in the
Chief Clerk's office here in San Antonio.
K: At this railroad station that they ' re restoring now. On
Commerce Street.
G: Yes. That ' s right . That was my headquart ers .
K: For how many years was that?
GOLDBECK 24
G: I was only there about a year.
K: 1914 . 13.
G: About 1913, I guess. Maybe half of '13 and half of '14.
I had gotten quite ill and I thought I'd better change my
climate or something . I'd been eating too much sweets. I
used to buy from Kress's on Houston Street. For 10 cents,
they'd sell you almost a pound and eat the whole darn thing.
I knocked myself out.
K: So you asked old man Watkins, the superintendent .
G: I said , "I'd like to get a pass." He said , "Where do you
want to go?" I said, "I'd like to go as far as the old rail-road
will take me." Well, he says, "We'll give you a pass to
Portland, Oregon." So when I got to San Francisco, I got off
the train, stayed there, I don't know, three weeks, I guess.
From there, I went up to Portland. Stayed quite a while. Got
another pass from. . I started to say the Missouri Pacific,
Oregon-Washington railroad, something like that. I told them
I'd worked for the Southern Pacific and they gave me a pass.
So I went to Seattle. I was up there, when the War broke out. -
1914. And many ships were afraid that the Germans were supposed
to have a submarine or two out there. They'd come in to Elliott
Bay, come into the Bay there for safety. One of these boats,
I found out later, came all the way from Halifax clear around Cape
Horn, and when they heard about the German submarines , they came
into Elliot Bay. It was a cable-laying vesse l . I had an old
5 by 7 camera then. I thought, "My God , I bet those boys--
" they would buy pictures .' I got in a rowboat and rowed out
GOLDBECK 25
G: to this cable-laying vessel. It was an old British cable-laying
vessel. I had no idea how many . . the captain and
the officers, they wouldn't get in with the crew and the en­gineers
wouldn't get in with the firemen and all that sort of
thing . I had to make about 7 or 8 dif f erent pictures there.
Went back the next day and showed 'em proofs. And they all
bought. I said, "Gee whiz, this is a good deal ." So I did
the same thing with half a dozen other boats.
When I got a little bit of money ahead, in those days I
didn't try to save, "l1eck , I am going to layoff some." So
I went across to Ellensburg, the ski area; wanted to see what
it was like. First thing you know, I had my camera in hock
and oh, God.
K: Oh.
G: I paid a dollar and seventy five cents a week for a nice
room there a week! In San Francisco, I had a nice room
on Pine Street for six dollars a week. Real nice room .
K: Was a very pretty .
isn't it?
. San Francisco is a beautiful town,
G: Yes. I think it is. However, they ' ve got a lot of goofy
people there . Gays and God knows what all.
K: The train you went past Del Rio . right?
With thi s train in 1913, when you took off with this train
for the west coast. That's the one down there in the Pecos
Mountains that's so famous , that track .
over that bridge over t he Pecos?
is it? Did you go
GOLDBECK
G: Yes. Over the Pecos. That was the highest bridge in the
world at that time. High bridge.
K: They had an anniversary for that for.
G: That was the highest bridge in the worln. Now there's
a bridge across the Royal Gorge that's at least 1400 fee t
high. Pecos Bridge is only 321, I think, if I remember
right.
K: Do you still have some of the negatives of those trips?
Those early trips?
26
G: I hate to say this, but I had a lot of negatives that were
thrown away . when I went into the service; we lived
where La Villita is now, 204 Vi llita Street , lived there for
a long time.
K: Which one was that?
G: 204 Villita Street. That old well that's down there,
was dug by hand by my g r andfather . It's still there; the
well is still there. That was before they had running water
here in San Antonio. They had to dig their own wel~. I
remember this old town when half the peop l e still had outdoor
toilets. And also in those days when I was a young man .
I remember the town quite v i vidly when it had on l y 60,000
population . My mother remembers it when it had 11,000. But
60,000 population. Very much smaller than it is today.
There must have been a
trememdous amount of s ickness here at the time because .
GOLDBECK
G: take Alamo Pl aza , f or instance . there was Dreiss's
Drug Store on Alamo Plaza and there was the Lone Star Drug
store on the Plaza and the Bear Drug Store on the Plaza .
three drug stores. Right across the street from Bear Drug
Store was Fis her ' s Drug Store.
END OF TAPE I , SIDE 1 , 45 minuteS
Tape 1, Side 2
27
G: (Showing photo) That was an old one. That was an old
Franklin air coo l ed car. I used to load up the running boards ;
had 3 , 4 movie cameras, everything you could think of . You saw
this, I guess . That was up in Austin .
K: I want to check the tape first. Today is September 28 ,
1983. I 'm again visit ing Mr. Go l dbeck in his living room on
Drexel Avenue in San Antonio , Texas. Drexel Avenue . Hello ,
Mr . Goldbeck , How are you doing today?
G: Fine, little lady , thank you .
K: And busy .
G: I 'm always busy. The only way I can keep out of devilment
is to stay busy .
K: It i s about quarter past two in the afternoon . Now what
have you been doing today, for instance?
G: I've been making copies of qui te a number of large
GOLDBECK
G: panoramic pictures.
K: Black and white? You make the black and white-­G:
Both. Black and white and colored.
K: Last Sunday there was a program about you on Charles
Kuralt's show on television, on Sunday morning.
G: Yes.
K: Did you have any response from it? Did you see it
yourself?
G: Yes.
K: Did you like it?
G: Yes, I thought it was quite good. Many, many people
contacted me from allover the united States.
K: To tell you that they liked it.
G: Yeah, and wanted to know if they could get copies of
some of the pictures.
K: And that's what you've been busy now, copying.
28
G: No. I've gotten quite a number of orders. You know I'm
supposed to be retired. I don't really need the money,
strange as that might sound. My wife raises the devil with
me all the time. Says, "Why don't you give it all up?"
"Quit, quit, quit." I've got one son put in 35 years at it
and he's retired. Takes it very easy. Right now he's gone
to see the foliage in New Hampshire and vermont and up in
there. He's always on the go having a good time. He says,
"Daddy, you're a darn fool. You ought to quit all that."
The old bug must have bitten me pretty bad.
K: Mr. Goldbeck, the last time we met, we just started
GOLDBECK
K: out .. the year was 1914 and the war began . And you
were up in Washington state.
G: Seattle.
K: And this cable laying vessel came around from Halifax
and you discovered a money-making project.
G: Yeah , I figured the boys hadn't been off that boat for
months and I figured, well , gee, there's a chance to maybe
sell pictures. So I rented a rowboat and I rowed out. This
cable ship was anchored in Elliot Bay quite a ways out from
shore. So I had a rowboat and rowed out there. The captain
. "Oh, yes, we' d like to have some pictures made ." It
was an English cable-laying vessel. I didn't know there
was so much class there. I had to shoot different groups.
The engineers didn't want to get in with the firemen ,
the firemen wouldn't get in with the engineers, the engin­eers
didn 't want to get in with somebody else. Had to make
many groups. Half a dozen or more groups . I went back
the next day and pretty near everyone wanted copies .
K: What kind of a camera was that?
G: I had an old 5 by 7 view camera .
K: And you did your own developing? Did you have your
little portable lab around?
G: I could go to any bathroom and make a dark room out of
it in 30 minutes. Get a place in a bathroom, that 's all I
needed.
K: That was , of course, 1914, the beginning of the first
World War. It was pretty .
29
GOLDBECK
G: It was very , very touchy , yes .
K: Was there any chance of you having to join the Forces or
anything like that?
G: Not at that time, no. I went into the Service in 1917.
I went into what they called the Photo Division of the
Aviation Section of the Signal Corps . They had no separate
Air Force. The first j ob I got was unloading coal cars.
K: Where was that? Where were you at that time? 1917?
G: I enlisted there were only two places where you
could enlist. One was Rochester, New York, Eastman Kodak -­Company,
or Post Field, Ft. Sill , Oklahoma. So I came down
to Ft . Sill; enlisted at Ft. Sill. We were an awful looking
army then. We didn't have enough uniforms to go around ;
half of us had civilian clothes on; it was a mess.
I remember one night there , they put me on guard. It
started to snow. . it was in November, I think, 1917.
It started to snow and it got cold as the dickens. I was
wearing civilian shoes and had worn holes in my shoes
after the old captain there. . I was in the Air Corps
then. Army Air Corps, photo Division of the Aviation
Section of the Army Air Corps. Anyhow, the squadron that I
was in, I went to the old captain and I said, "Captain, I 've
got to have some shoes." He says" "I've got a requisition
in, I'm doing everything I can. Tell you what you do . You
go on sick call tomorrow morning. Maybe the doctor can get
you some shoes." So I went on sick call and got in a
line . . there were about, I guess there were 30 fellows
30
GOLDBECK 31
G: ahead of me. Finally got up to the old doctor , who
asked, "What's the matter with you? " I said, "Doctor,
there's nothing really wrong with me but running around
here in this snow in these shoes." I showed him the holes.
"I'm going to get pneumonia ." He looked at his old Sergeant
and said, "Give this man a dose of salts." Instead of
shoes, I got a dose of salts. God.
K: That was a surprise, wasn't it?
G: A couple of days later, I got some shoes.
K: Mr. Goldbeck, before, when you were in the northwest in
1914, there was one incident that you talked, told me about
once, when you were almost attacked by a .
tell me that again?
Can you
G: I was out making pictures with this 5 by 7 camera ,
usually wouldn't get in 'til about dark. I was down in
the railroad yards in Seattle. And something told me , I
don't know , I just had an inkling. . had to pass a big
grain elevator . And if I had a gone right up like I was
going, I'd be going right next to this grain e levator. But
I gave it a wide berth.
Sure enough, there was a guy with a big old piece of
iron there waiting for me . Going to hit me in the head
with it, I guess, I saw him; he ran after me; after a
while he gave it up. That was a close call.
K: But that wasn't supposed to be back in those days. And
then did you stay until 1917 up in Seattle? In that area?
G: I was up and down the west coast.
GOLDBECK 32
K: But you still didn't have a car; you went by train most
of the time?
G: By train. I had worked for the Southern Pacific before
I went out there.
K: In San Antonio. And you sort of got a transfer over
there.
G: They gave me several passes on the trains. I had 3 jobs
on the Southern Pacific. I was a photographer with the
Sunset Central lines; I was motor car engineer. They had
little motor cars; it was just like an automobile with
railroad wheels on it and the officials once a month would
go up and down the track, checking the section houses and
section gangs and that sort of thing. When I wasn't doing
that, I was working in the superintendent 's office above the
depot, Southern Pacific depot.
K: Did they have such nice train stations in San Antonio
allover? Up and down those lines? Were they all so
pretty?
G: Quite beautiful in those days.
K: And isn't it a pity that many of them are torn down
today, right?
G: There are just a few half-way decent stations left. I
don't know if you've been in the Southern Pacific Depot
lately, but they've spent a lot of money on the inside;
cleaned it all up.
K: I'm very pleased with that. And then in 1917, after you
enlisted, you still weren't married, though. What year
GOLDBECK
K: did you marry?
G: 1919. When I got out of the Service.
K: From 1917 to 1919 you were stationed in the United
States?
G: Practically all the time, yes. The way I met my
wife . I don't know if this is interesting or not
33
I made one record, I think, in the Service. They evidently
couldn't stand my looks. I was only in 21 months, I think
it was, transferred me 21 times. They couldn't stand my
looks. They'd shoot me around different bases. Soon as the
Commanding Officer of that base got through with me, all
the pictures he wanted made, he released me and Washington
sent me somewhere else.
Finally sent me to Camp Jackson, South Carolina, 81st
Division. The general of the 81st Division was named
Bailey. He said, "Goldbeck, I want to take you with me.
I want you to be my Division photographer overseas." I had
just put in for a commission. I had enlisted as a buck
private. Put in for a commission. Took a couple of
examinations for Second Lieutenant ; at that time, they had
a southeastern department in Charleston. In the military
everything has to go through channels. Well, this adjutant
of the 81st Division took my papers and threw 'em in the
Washington basket in p lace of throwing 'em in the Charleston
basket. The result was, my papers went to Washington direct
and they sent ' em back, said, 'send 'em through channels.'
In the meantime, the 81st Division took off without me.
GOLDBECK 34
G: They sent me up to Columbia University to the Signal
Corps School of Photography there as an instructor instead
of going overseas with the Blst Division. That's where I
met my ,"life. She was \Vorking at Columbia University in the
University's book store. That's where I met her. NOW if
that fellow had had one less beer that day, the adjutant of
the Division putting my papers in the wrong basket, I'd have
probably gotten bumped off overseas. One little thing like
that can change your whole life.
K: And your wife is a native New Yorker.
G: Yes. She \Vas born in New York City. I was born right
here in San Antonio.
K: Did you court for a long time or did you get married
soon?
G: Quite a while, yes. In those days, she lived way up in
washington Heights, lBlst Street. That was a select section
of New York at the time. Now it's all Puerto Rican and God
knows what. She used to ride the subway every day or every
night. She'd sometimes work late at night and, by herself,
go up there; nobody bothered her. Can't do anything like
that now. It's terrible.
K: And you spotted her right the first day you were at
Columbia university? Did you spot your wife soon after you
got to Columbia?
G: No. I don't think the first day, but I met her shortly
after I got there, yes.
K: Then you took many pictures of her.
GOLDBECK 35
G: Well, quite a few, yes. We started going out on
Sundays. Whenever s he could get off, I would take her home
at night and all that sort of stuff. First thing you know,
we became engaged. And in 1919, got married. And we've
been married ever since.
K: Wonderful.
G: 64 years.
K: It's almost the diamond; it's more than the diamond,
isn't it? 50 is the golden anniversary.
G: 65, well, that's next year.
K: That's the diamond.
G: 75 is the diamond.
K: Wonderful. You have had a very happy marriage. How
many children did you have?
G: We had 5. We lost the only girl we had . Only 21 months
old. And we lost one boy
K: Missing in action.
missing in World War II.
G: Missing; that's all we ever knew.
K: In the Pacific or Europe?
G: Actually, he was a radio operator on an Air Force boat.
This boat was run by the British Merchant Marine. This was
a mixed up affair. And they got into, evidently, a very
high wind coming back from Puerto Rico to Miami. They were
based in Miami . An Air Force boat; they'd take Air Force
parts to various Air Force bases. And they were coming back
to Miami and they got into a storm and he ,'las washed
overboard. They couldn't search for him on account of
GOLDBECK
G: submarines were there, you know and .
she almost went crazy.
K: Tragic.
G: Had a terrific nervous breakdown.
36
. my poor wife,
K: Mr. Goldbeck, when you got out of the service, it was
1919. You came back down to San Antonio.
G: First made a lot of pictures around New York and boys
coming back from overseas. And pictures of many, many
thousands of those boys.
K: Dough boys. Did you get the one black regiment, too?
G: No.
K: And then did you finally come to San Antonio? Return to
San Antonio?
G: 19. I guess 1921.
K: And you set up residence here in San Antonio.
G: Well, I lived here with my wife, yes.
K: But this house, here on Drexel Avenue •.• when did you
build this house?
G: 1929, I guess. We built that place in back two years
earlier. '27.
K: What's now your studio.
G: No one ever lived in it. It's not really a studio.
It's just a shop, workshop, that's all. Would you like to
go back there and see it?
********
K: So all of your children were born in San Antonio? And
went to school here, also.
GOLDBECK 37
G: All of 'em went to school here, yes.
K: Was a busy time for you. And you photographed • did
you ever have a shop in San Antonio? A store, or a studio?
For photography?
G: No.
K: You were most of the time traveling?
G: Well, I made hundreds of pictures. I guess a couple of
thousand would probably be nearer right, out at Ft. Sam
Houston in those early days. Used to go out there every
day. Photograph those different units.
K: Do you still have photos when they first started the Air
Force at Ft. Sam Houston in the 20's, '27, I think.
G: Maybe one or two.
K: Do you remember when they shot the movie WINGS at Ft.
Sam Houston?
G: Yes. Very well.
K: Did you help along there?
G: Well, not a great deal. Very little, in fact. Then
after that, they shot another movie out here, called, Teddy
Roosevelt, ROUGH RIDERS. Out at the old fair grounds.
K: Did you by any chance, attend the premiere of the movie
WINGS at the Texas theater on Houston Street?
G: I think I did.
K: And you remember that theater, too?
G: Oh, yes. Very well.
K: Was brand new then. That was a new wave in those days,
wasn't it?
GOLDBECK
G: Yeah.
K: To build these magnificent movie theaters .
G: Well, we had the Majestic. . was another beautiful
one. And the Aztec was also very beautiful at the
time • considered.
K: And the Empire.
G: Very good. It wasn't quite as fancy.
K: Not as large, either.
38
G: That Empire, years ago , that's where the Turner Hall,
they had a--Turners used to have a place in there. That was
years ago.
K: Mr . Goldbeck, when they had all these theaters on
Houston Street and Commerce Street , at the time they had all
these theaters like the Majest ic and Texas.
G: The Royal was another very popular
K: And they were always crowded and .?
G: Yes. You could get into a movie then, best seats ,
probably for 75 cents. 50 cents.
K: And afterwards, would you go to the Gunter Hotel or the
St. Anthony Hotel? For some entertainment? Those hotels
were pretty fancy, too, weren't they?
G: My wife and I used to the Gunter had a nice roof
garden there a long time. We'd eat up there once in a
while. Fact of the matter is, our first- born, Bobby , we
used to roll him around in the baby carriage; take him with
us wherever we went.
K: That must have been beautiful.
GOLDBECK
G: Up on top of the roof; any place.
K: They also had stage shows on those
theaters, didn't they?
G: Oh, yes. Had stage shows, too.
K: Fancy ones.
39
in those
G: The Main theater was the old Grand Opera House on Alamo
Plaza. That finally turned into a movie theater, too, but
in the early days it was all stage shows.
K: And opera, too, of course.
G: Oh, yes.
K: And symphony?
G: Oh, yes. The symphony, actually, was a later deal.
They used to play in the Auditorium.
K: It didn't form 'til '35, or so. Why did they tear the
Opera building down? Do you remember that?
G: They never tore the Opera house down. They changed the
back of it. They didn't tear it down. The whole thing was
remodeled in such a way it looked like it was torn down.
Green grocery outfit went into it. Right next to that Opera
House, there was a very fine old restaurant, German,
Bismarck Cafe. Good meal in there; for a dollar you could
get all the food you wanted. Very good food.
K: San Antonio was a very busy town, wasn't it, very
cultured, also.
G: I think so. Originally, you might say the Germans moved
into San Antonio, most every place else around here, New
Braunfels, Fredericksburg, Comfort, Boerne. . many
GOLDBECK 40
G: Germans came in. And my mother said she remembered when
San Antonio had 11,000 population ••. almost all Germans.
NOW the Spanish speaking are taking over. 52, 53 percent,
officially.
K: Do you remember when they had the first rodeo in San
Antonio?
G: Yes. I remember it quite well. Made a lot of
pictures.
K: And those negatives would be now at the university or do
you still have them?
G: I think they're all up at the University. They were all
small negatives. Action pictures; getting thrown off the
horse.
K: And also when the circus came to town, you took photos,
didn't you?
G: I've got some of those negatives yet. Old circus
negatives. Ringling Brothers; Barnum & Bailey.
K: That big tent.
G: They used to have a big parade • in the early days
they'd only play here one day. Parade in the morning and
they'd have an afternoon show about 2 o'clock and have a
show that night. Next day, they'd go to Austin, or Houston,
some place else. Never stayed. Population ;iasn't large
enough to warrant staying more than one day.
K: And they had their own caravan or did they utilize the
train when they packed up?
G: All trains. But many, many had all their own cars.
They'd just carry a whole menagerie with them, too.
GOLDBECK 41
K: Mr. Goldbeck, do you remember also, the Hot Wells Hotel?
On Presa.
G: Yeah, I remember it well. Yes. E. H. Harriman, one of
the biggest railroad men, I guess, financiers, that the
country has ever had . when he got sick, he used to
corne spent several winters at the Hot Wells Hotel.
They had a real nice hotel there.
K: That must have been pretty.
G: They had the sulphur baths there. Those wells are still
running as far as I know. But the hotel burned down in
1926. Many, many people from the north would corne here and
spend winter out there at the Hot Wells Hotel.
K: Did you ever take a photograph of that?
G: Oh, yes. Of what?
K: Did you ever take a photo of the Hot Wells Hotel?
F: Oh, yes. I've got a photo now out there of the bath
house. I made a very fine picture . they had it on
display . at Laguna Gloria. (ed. Austin)
K: San Antonio in those days was a very lovely town and
very well visited, too, wasn't it?
G: Oh, yes. Many people carne here, especial~ during the
winter months. Didn't have this river deal yet.
K: But it also was very cultured. The population of San
Antonio. I read someplace where it was the most important
town in Texas 'til about 1930.
G: It was the largest city, you know, for many, many years.
Much larger than Houston; much larger than Dallas. Finally
GOLDBECK
G: those two towns out-stripped us. Houston now's got
pretty near a million and a half people.
42
Snithsonian Institution came and got a lot of my stuff.
I think I told you that.
K: No, you didn't.
G: Yeah, they sent a representative down here.
K: I'm glad. Was that recently?
G: Oh, yes. They borrowed a whole lot of my stuff and
I just got it back here. The Smithsonian copied all that
stuff.
K: I'm glad. You don't remember the name of anybody from
those people, do you?
G: Somewhere out there I've got a card, I'm sure. Can't
tell you off-hand.
K: Some photos that I have seen of yours, those panoramic
photos, stand out in my mind. One is of those bathing
beauties in Galveston, on Galveston beach.
G: Well, I made the first six bathing beauties, beauty
reviews, down there. Started in 1920, '21, '22, '23, '24,
'25, I think I made six. Then Atlantic City said, "Say,
this is a good deal." They used to bring thousands and
thousands of people for those reviews. Of course in those
days, those girls used to see how much they could keep on,
but now, I don't blush very easily, but if I had to make
a picture of a bathing girl review out in Waikiki, for
instance, I think I'd blush. They wear bikinis out there,
some of 'em, about 2 inches wide; a fig leaf would cover four
Goldbeck
G: times as much. I don't think I could stand it.
K: Your camera might explode, too, or something. (laughter)
G: It's possible.
K:The other photograph that I remember vividly is the one when they
had the Ku Klux Klan lined up. Can you tell me about that event?
G: In those days, that was in the 20's •.• I think I took a picture in
, 24. When the Dallas Klan came down here, visiting in San Antonio, in
their regalia, the Ku Klux Klan regalia;had their suits on.
And the San Antonio Klan, they were all mounted. (horses); they
didn't have their regalia on at all.
At that time, believe it or not, there were two parades in
Washington, D.C. with over a hundred thousand robed Klansmen in each
parade. 1921. Politicians couldn't get to first base unless they
joined the Klan in those days .
K:When was it ••• 192l?
G: In the 20's, about '22, '23, '24, '25, along in there. But
there were two parades in Washington in one year. And each one had
over a hundred thousand robed Klansmen in it. Washington, D.C.
K: And you weren't there with your camera.
G: No , I wasn't.
K: Did you line them up, or did they line up for you on Alamo
Plaza or where was that photo taken?
G: I don't remember. That was probably out at the old fair grounds,
I imagine.
43
GOLDBECK 44
K: Where were the old fair grounds?
G: Old fair grounds was on Presa Street, about 3 miles out ,
between Presa and Roosevelt Avenue .
Incidently, the street car used to run all the way
out there and about a mile past. Went out to what they
called the South Texas Insane Asylum. They used to call it.
Now they call it something else . Just this side of the
Insane Asylum was Schuermeier Park. An old German Park. My
father used to take us kids, when we were little, on
Sundays. You know, they had a big swing there; soda water 5
cents a bottle. We always wanted strawberry. It must have
been about half dye; because when you'd get through drink­ing
it, your whole face would be red.
K: What was the man's name, again?
G: Schuermeier, I think it was. Schuermeier's Park. That
was later turned into our first movie stage. They made
movies out there. Maclyn Arbuckle , and several rather
prominent movie people at that time. That was a way back;
turned into a movie stage. (ed. see Specht interview)
K: Where they f ilmed movies. And then the third photo
that I really enjoy a lot, also , is the border patrol in
front of the old Fords. Were those Model T's?
G: What?
K: The border patrol in front of their cars. The border
patrol is lying down.
G: I made several shots of them, I think. That was made
right by the Rio Grande.
GOLDBECK
K: Was it Laredo or where was it?
G: If I remember right, it was Del Rio, just below Del
Rio.
45
K: That's an interesting bit. . just with the cars, it
looks very interesting.
Which one was your favorite photo--that you have
taken?
G: Oh, I don't know. I've got a number of favorites. I
think one of my favorite color photos is Peter the Great's
summer palace in Leningrad. And also, think the one I made
of Monte Carlo was an outstanding picture. And in black and
whites, I think the pyramids, one, and then another one is
probably Machu picchu in Peru.
K: The Monte Carlo photo, did you ever send that to
Princess Grace?
G: I sent a copy of that to Princess Grace and Prince
Rainier and I got a beautiful letter back from them.
K: Wonderful.
G: And I've got a very beautiful picture of London and I
sent o~of those to Queen Elizabeth. Got a beautiful letter
back from her.
K: That's nice. The photograph in . which national
park is that again, that one of the photographers requested
from you? The one photograph in the national park?
G: Yosemite National Park.
K: In California.
G: I carried my camera clear up 8500 feet above Yosemite;
way up; and shot down on it. You can see a couple of
GOLDBECK
G: waterfalls, the whole thing there. And Ansel Adams
ordered that from me several times.
K: That's in black and white.
G: No, it's in color.
46
K: How do you determine from where to shoot; which vantage
point to use for a photo?
G: Well, just scout around a little bit. You've got to
use your head.
K: You hike around and then .•.
G: Look the situation over and then make the picture from
the point you figure it's going to look best from. Of
course, I make a l ot o f mistakes in that respect; maybe I
can find a better place. Somebody else could probably find
a better place.
K: Could you please tell me the story, when you took a
photograph of a mountain peak and you were covered by a
J apanese soldier?
G: That was in 19 37. Japan was warring on China at the
time. And things were very touchy at the time. I was in
Japan and I wanted to get a nice reflection of Fujijama in
Lake Hakoni. And while I was making this picture, about 12
feet behind me, was a bunch of bushes and I heard a rustle
back there and I thought well, some animal was back there.
When I got through making my picture, I went to investigate
and there was a Japanese with a camera. I went up to him
and said, "You're Japanese secret service, aren't you?"
and all I got was a big grin. Asked him two, three more
GOLDBECK 47
G: questions and a ll I could get out of him was a grin.
I finally reached in my pocket and pulled out a yen note,
I said, "Look, no bribe. You turn this over to whatever
department you work for. I know you made pictures of me .
When you get through with the pictures you made of me,
please send me copies ." Four years after termination of
World War II , I got a box of p l ates from the Japanese
government--two plates, and very good pictures that fe llow
made of me .
K:
G:
K:
You developed them and. .?
Oh , yeah , I made prints; I got copies out there.
We:re you very busy photographing during the war or
before the Second World War, also?
G: I've always been busy.
K: When you started to take a lot of military photographs,
military units , etc., that kept you busy for many years ,
didn't it?
G: Yeah, 33 years, I made the complete rounds of military.
Didn't make any difference where they were; where they were
stationed. I used to go to China every 3 years. We had
the 15th Infantry there. Stayed there 'til World War II
started and they pull ed them out of there; just b e fore World
War II started. Pulled ' em out of there. But they were
there f or many , many years . No, I'll tell you all about it.
I'm wrong . They moved in there after World War I. They
took over the German compound in Tientsin. 15th Infantry
stayed there from Ivorld War I up to World War II. I used
GOLDBECK 48
G: to make the complete rounds of military ... didn't
make any difference where they were. Puerto Rico, take
the 65th Infantry there; go down to Panama and photograph
all the troops in Panama. If we had any Marines in Santo
Domingo or Nicaragua, or any place , I took pictures of
Marines. Then the next year, I'd start out to the
Philippines, photographed the Philippine department, go up
to China with the 15th Infantry . On the way back, stop in
Honolulu and photograph all the troops in Hawaii. The
following year, I'd start at West Point; photograph all
over the United States. It'd take me a whole year to do
that.
K: Did you photograph Pearl Harbor before the attack there?
Do you remember?
G: I made pictures that showed Pearl Harbor, sure. I made
many pictures of Honolulu from high elevations so Pearl
Harbor was in the picture , sure.
K: And the negatives, of course, are at the University of
Texas now? You said you gave a lot of negatives to the
University .
G: 60,000.
K: Do you know what they're doing with them? Have they
catalogued .?
G: Catalogued. They're taking good care of them ; got ' ern
in special .. one whole f loor there just turned over to
those negatives. Keep certain temperature there. I lost
several thousand very valuable negatives having them stored
in the attic up above my shop; got so hot; a lot of them
GOLDBECK 49
G: destroyed. Thousands of negatives.
K: That's pitiful, isn't it. That's really sad.
When you traveled, you must have met many, many famous
people also in your travels. Or some that became your good
friends, also?
G: I met a lot of people. One time I was going down to
Panama. In the early days, it took 5 days to fly from here
to Panama. 5 days. Now you can go down the re in a couple
of hours. There was no airline out of here direct to
Panama. The only airline that went down to Panama in those
days was Pan American. They flew out of Brownsville.
Didn't come here. Went out there by train to Brownsville.
That was one day in Brownsville, gone. Didn't do any night
flying, you know. First day from Brownsville, they dumped
you off in Mexico City, stay there overnight. Next day,
they take you to Guatemala City and stay there overnight.
The fourth day, they dumped you off in San Salvador, stay
there overnight. On the 5th day, you'd get to Panama.
One time I was going down there, I got on a plane at
Brownsville and who the heck was on the plane but . . I
saw Will Rogers. I sat with him all the way down there.
That was in 1933, I guess, '32 maybe. '33, I guess it was.
Anyhow, I got to talking with him. We sat together all the
way from. . to Mexico City and then the next day I sat
with him. lie says, "You know, I'm going over to see that
fellow, Hitler." He never did get to go but he could kid
the pants off the president, anybody else. If he'd gone
GOLDBECK 50
G: over there, maybe Hitler would have changed his mind.
K: He was quite something, wasn't he?
G: He was a good man; old Will Rogers. I've got the last
picture ever made of him. I didn't make them; fellow made
it up in Alaska the day before he was killed.
K: And he sent it to you. He mailed it to you?
G: I got a copy of it.
K: It must have been an experience to meet this man, wasn't
it?
G: One time I was going out west, driving out there, I thought,
well, I'll stop and make another picture of the Grand Canyon.
I got over there and I saw an old gentleman standing looking
over the Grand Canyon, I said, that looks like Albert Einstein'S
pictures I'd seen. I went over to where he was and said,
"Pardon me, sir, aren't you Dr. Einstein?" He said, "Yes. II
And I said, "Is this charming lady next to you Hrs. Einstein?"
He said, "Yes." I said, "Do you mind if I make a picture of
you?" "No." So I went over and borrowed an Indian war bonnet
from one of the Hopi Indians and got a couple of them to
come over there with me and I shot a picture of old Albert
Einstein and his wife.
K: Wonderful. You made him a copy then, didn't you?
G: Oh, yeah.
K: That's a case when you're in the right spot at the right
time, isn't it. And that is really exhilarating.
G: I didn't know he was there until I ran into him.
Just recently I made a picture of J. Paul Getty
GOLDBECK 51
G: Museum out in Malibu. It's really a very outstanding
place. I forget how many millions. I think it said 26
million dollars--the property he bought--and he built this
museum and all. And in it he put all of his many millions
of dollars worth of art objects he'd been accumulating over
the years. He built it to house his art objects. He willed
the whole thing over to, I think, the Getty Trust or something.
They run the Museum.
He told 'em he wasn't going to leave 'em very much
money in his will. But he did. He left them seven hundred
million dollars worth of oil stock and today that's worth a
billion, five hundred million. They told me out there,
they've got so much money coming in, they don't know what to
do with it. They don't know how to spend it.
( I'll tell you how to spend it. \~e' ve got a little
museum in San Antonio, .. ~ havlng a hard tlme making ends meet.
I said, "Why don't you spread the money around?" nOh,1I they
said, "according to the will, we have to spend it right here
in this Museum. Got to spend it all right here in this
Museum." Their income, they said, is over twenty million
dollars a year. Twenty million dollars a year! Income!
And it's growing all the time.
K: It's a shame they can't share it, isn't it?
G: Twenty million dollars a year and according to the will,
they can't spread it around. It must all be spent there.
So they cannot give to the Metropolitan Museum of Art of the
Louvre or any other museum anywhere in the world. If the
GOLDBECK 52
G: Metropolitan Museum of Art wanted a certain painting and
they bid five million dollars, they'd say, well, we'll give
you seven million. It don't mean a thing to 'em. They can
outbid anybody.
K: Were you pleased when our Museum of Art, of course it
was a brewery before . they said they were going to turn
it into a museum of art, the old Lone Star Brewery?
G: I thought it was a very good thing for San Antonio. But
now they're having a hard time, financially. They're
running three museums; one down here in Hemisfair ..
Transportation, the one on Broadway. Ellen Quillin, she was
really founder of that Museum (Witte), worked like a fool
for years and years. Was a school teacher--Main Avenue High
School.
K: History.
Do you remember her as a teacher?
G: Oh, yeah, I remember her real well. She was a good
friend of the Onderdonks, very famous painters here.
Onderdonk was really a wonder on blue bonnet painting.
K: He was probably the first to do those, too.
G: (Points to painting on living room wall) There's
another one, Robert Wood. That was painted right out there
at Leon Springs. He had a little studio out there.
K: And now they are building every place, aren't they?
G: He was a very famous painter. I had that thing
appraised, $4500.
K: You were part of San Antonio for so many years, what
GOLDBECK
K: do you think about the economic growth in the last
couple of years?
G: Well, I think it's been really phenomenal that last.
K: Five, seven years; it's really grown.
G: About ten years. There's an awful lot of those
condominiums. I never heard the word condominiums until
about ten years ago. Too many apartments. Not enough
individual homes.
K: people can't afford them anymore.
G: That's right.
53
K: They don't want to go to the trouble of the garden, too.
G: People can't afford 'em; that's right. Interest rates.
I can remember when you could borrow from the banks if you
had a first class credit rating, you could borrow from the
banks as low as 4 1/2 percent. In those days, the only real
safe place to put your money was in the Post Office. They'd
pay you 2 percent. Postal Savings. 2 percent. Government.
K: I wonder why they stopped that. Was that a long time
ago?
G: It was a long time ago. Time flies. I guess that's 40
years anyhow; 40 years ago. When they stopped it.
K: Your old school buddy, Walter MCAllister, did well with
his bank, didn't he? Savings and Loan.
G: I remember when he first started off. I think he's about
the last one, the last classmate that I can remember
got out ahead of me. A year or two ahead of me. We both
went to the old Main Avenue High School. The only high
he
GOLDBECK 54
G: school they had here. When I graduated, for the whole
year, 52 students. Graduating. 52 students. Now they have
25 high schools scattered around here and they graduate up to
7, 8, 900 pupils each.
K: Yeah, it's really increased. So you remember when Mr.
McAllister opened his first bank, first savings and loan?
G: Savings and loan; it wasn't really a bank.
K: In those days, they encouraged children to save also in
schools, didn't they?
G: In the schools. Had a little thing, little banks and
you'd take your bank to the Savings and Loan and they'd take
the money and deposit it for you.
K: How the attitudes of people change; today the children
get a credit card for Christmas when they are ten (years
old).
G: In those days, money really amounted to something.
Golly, I remember when here in San Antonio, the people
working on the streets got a dollar a day; worked 10 hours.
From 8 to 6. Dollar a day. And nobody kicked. Fire
department and police department, they got $60.00 a month.
K: Mr. Goldbeck, you've heard of H. Ross Perot from.
G: Oh, yes.
K: He is on a special education committee. If you had a
chance to talk to him personally, what kind of advice would
you give him? What would you tell him to include into the
curriculum for the school children today?
G: I think that the way a lot of these schools are being
GOLDBECK 55
G: run today the teachers should have a baseball bat and use
it. This thing of the kids throwing ink bottles at the
teacher and all that sort of stuff. When I went to school,
nothing like that ever happened. They even pull knives on
some of these teachers. My son teaches out there in
California and he says you have no idea what goes on in some
of these schools. Terrible. Discipline is ... and I think
it all started when they started integrating the schools.
Running the blacks in with the whites. All the trouble in
our schools. And the kids don't learn half as much as they
used to.
When I went to school, if you couldn't pass in everyone
of your subjects, you'd stay behind another year. Another
term. But now it doesn't make any difference what the kids
learn, they pass 'em on. No such thing as holding 'em back.
Whether they learn what they're supposed to learn at a
certain grade or not, they pass 'em on to the next grade.
And the result is that many of 'em come out of high school
and they can't write a decent article; they can't. can
scarcely read, some of 'em. And some of 'em write like,
well, take a damn rooster and put ink on his claws and turn
him loose and he could write just about as good .
END OF TAPE I, Side 2, 45 minutes
GOLDBECK 56
TAPE II, Side I
K: Mr. Goldbeck, we were talking about the schools and the
school system. I find that some of the schools are much too
large. The children have no identity as a pupil in school.
G: The classes are too large; too large for one teacher to
handle, too.
K: When you went to school .
G: Actually, classes were quite large, when I went to
school, I guess they had 40, about 40 pupils in the class.
But if you didn't pass in everyone of your subjects, you
missed out in one subject, they held you back. Another term;
you had to go right through the same thing again.
K: What subjects did they teach you? What was the emphasis,
on which subjects?
G: I think mathematics.
K: They taught you math a lot; they concentrated on math.
G: Mathematics. And we had physiology; we had geography,
history, ..
K: NO football.
G: No, I never went out for football. They had football,
but it wasn't given the prominence that is given today.
These football players, gee, well, all sorts of stuff under
the table, a lot of funny stuff going on.
K: Could I ask you up to now you said you had
photographed every president since MCKinley. Which one was
your personal favorite? Which of the presidents?
GOLDBECK 57
G: I think Calvin Coolidge. He said, "I do not choose to
run." Second time; everybody wanted him to run again. But
another thing, in World War I, we loaned billions of dollars
to countries over there: France, England, Italy, and the
only country that e ver repaid its debt was little Finland.
The only one. And old Coolidge said they borrowed the money,
they should pay it back. But all these other presidents,
they more or less wiped the slate clean. And all these
billions of dollars, hundreds of millions we've given to
these African nations, everyone of 'em votes against us
every time they get a chance. But going through Africa,
especially the capitols of these various countries over there
. beautiful buildings. . all of 'em were paid by
American taxpayers. We loan them the money at very low
interest rates and they can't pay it back so they just make a
grant out of it. They don't appreciate anything that's been
done for 'em.
K: From the second World War, there are still a lot of
debts, too. From all the wars, right?
G: Yes. Yes. We have squandered our wealth allover the
world. Most of the people that got it have done anything but
showing any appreciation at all. That U. N. . it
certainly isn't what it originally expected it to do.
Supposed to bring peace to the world. And there's more
fighting going on tOday allover the world, people, wars all
over. San Salvador, the Middle East, Afghanistan, over in
Asia.
GOLDBECK 58
K: Sad, isn't it?
G: They couldn't stop a dog fight. I think the sooner we
get that spy nest out of the United States, the better off
we're going to be. It's the biggest spy nes:t in the world,
the U.N. And it costs us. . I think we s pend about 500
million dollars, keeping that thing going. Russia pays
about one f ifth of what we pay.
K: Speaking of Russia, have you ever taken photographs other
than the Red Square and in Leningrad? Did you ever get on
the far eastern coast of Russia?
G: No. No, I did not.
K: Or Siberia? You never were in Siberia?
G: No. I planned on going over there way back in 19 .
I think it was 1937. I planned on going ... well, I h eard
there was a lot of stuff going on in Vladivostok and I was
going to stick my neck out and go over there. But just
about that time , Lindberg was flying around the world, I
think it was, and he landed somewhere in Siberia and they
held him up there I don't know how long. . about 2 weeks
or more getting out of there. I thought, my God, if that's
what they do to Lindbergh, I'd better stay out of this. So
I never did go.
K: They had some Americans land over there, also, didn't
they?
G: Helped the white Russians at one time, yes . Right after
World War I, I guess it was.
But you know, if they'd left old General Patton alone
GOLDBECK 59
G: the Russians would never have gotten into Berlin; they
would never have gotten into Budapest; they'd never gotten
into the capitol of Czechoslovakia. He had one bunch of his
troops lined for Berlin another one lined for Czechoslovakia
and one for Budapest.
They'd have gone in there and beaten the Russians at
every place . But Eisenhower, the over-all commander, the way
they stopped poor old Patton, they didn ' t let him have any
gasoline for his tanks. That's the way they stopped him. He
hated the Russians worse that he ever did the Germans at the
time.
K: HOW soon a f ter the war did you get over to Europe?
G: I went over there in 1921, I guess.
K: After the Second World War , did you go over there, too?
In the 40's or the 50's.
G: I went over there so many times.
K: But you didn't see Europe after it was so bombed?
G: We were over there, it must have been in '45, I guess,
1945. Sure. We stayed in a place ... one of the big
cities in Germany.
K: Munich?
G: NO.
K: Hamburg?
G: NO.
K: Berlin?
G: No. Not Berlin.
K: Cologne? Bremen? Stuttgart?
GOLDBECK
G: No.
K: Nuremberg, Mainz?
G: Further west.
K: Frankfurt.
60
G: Frankfurt, yeah. We stopped in Frankfurt. And the hotel
we went into, the whole roof was gone . We stayed in a hotel
without a roof on it.
Went into Vienna and we had a heck of a time finding a
hotel. The hotels were all taken over. The Russians had one
of the big hotels there; the Americans had another one; the
French had another one; the English had another one. . had
several of them, actually. We got into a little old hotel
there and they had a Rathskeller and we went down there to
eat. A fellow had on a regular . . • not full dress .
but it was an evening outfit , the waiter . The waiters
all all ravelled, and worn , poor fellows. In other
words, it wasn't new.
We got a beautiful meal there in Vienna for about $1.25;
everything.
K: Which was the nicest hotel that you have ever stayed in
in your travels?
G: I think the most outstanding hotel in the world is the
one in Taipei, the Grand Hotel in Taipei. Nothing like it
anywhere else; nothing to compare with it. A lot of
super-beautiful hotels scattered around the world, but that's
just one of a kind. And there's no other hotel like it.
They've got a big marble stairway and it goes up to the
GOLDBECK 61
G: mezzanine and it's wider than this whole room is wide.
And a beautiful marble everything in it is super-duper.
Great big Chinese rugs everywhere; just out of this world.
K: You, of course, didn't keep book of all the miles you
have traveled during your career?
G: No, but I've been as far as Seguin already!
K: How often would it span the globe? What do you think?
All your travels?
G: I don't know. Many, many , many miles. I've been around
the world ten times now; may go once more. And I' ve been to
Alaska 23 times.
K: You must like it in Alaska.
G: I've been to Hawaii 19 or 20 times. So that's a lot of
travel.
K: Was it always to Hawaii by boat? By plane
or was it always by boat?
G: In the early days, before they had any plane service
over there Fact of the matter is, the only person
that ever bawled me out in all my contacts with the military .
I've got dozens of letters, everyone of them is commendatory,
from generals and big shots in the military. The only time
I was ever bawled out was by old General Patton . And this
was in 1935. Before they had air service over to Hawaii .
I was at Scofield barracks, making pictures for the
military at Scofield barracks. Here comes an M.P. on a
motorcycle. General Patton was a Colonel then, a G-2 officer
which is ... that's an intelligence officer. He was
Goldbeck
G.: int e lligence officer of the Hawaii department at Ft . Shafter,
which is Homolulu . This M.P. says, "Colonel Patton wants to see you
right away ." I didn't know what it was about. I thought, what the heck .
I had an old Model T Ford; there wasn ' t any paved roads from Scofield
Barracks to Honolulu; just an old dirt road. Took me about an hour
I guess, to get down there . Went to his office ; didn 't any more than
see me , he says," You 're Goldbeck , aren't you?" I said, "Yes, sire"
He says, "What i n the God •• (every other word was a cuss word) •. in
the hell do you mean making a picture at Wheeler Field showing Kole
Kole Pass in the background?" I said, "Well, Colonel , I made the same
picture three years ago and it was passed; made one three years before
that; it was passed.
62
I sold hundreds of ' em. The only difference is, different men in the
picture. I made it in the same spot." He said, "I don't give a damn •• "
I said, "I've a lready taken orders from the officers and the men .
The pictures are supposed to be on their way back over here now."
He said, "I'm going to confiscate every damn one of 'em." Every other
word was a cuss word. I said, "Colonel, if I had any inkling as to how
you felt , I certainly would have taken the pictures in here for your
inspection.
He said, "Don't try to soft soap me . I 'm going to confiscate every
damn one of your pictures~ I said, "Well, Colonel , I want to
apologize to you ; I'm sorry I did this but I had no idea you f elt the
way you f eel." Anyhow, next day I was out there at Scofield Barracks,
making pictures again. And here comes
GOLDBECK 63
G: an M.P. on a motorcycle again. "General Drum wants
to see you down in headquarters." He was over-all commander.
I thought, my God, it's already gone to the top. So I gave
up everything and went on down there. His Chief of Staff was
Colonel Van Voories. I said, "Colonel, I understand the
General wants to see me." "Yes," says Van Voories, "we got
in some new flags yesterday and he wants you to make pictures
of him in front of his flags." I felt very much relieved.
I went in there, the General says, "Goldbeck, how's
everything going?" I said, "General, up until yesterday
everything was going fine but I got the bawling out of my
life yesterday." He asked, "What happened?" I told him.
He asked, "Do you have one of the pictures with you?" I
said, "Yes, sir." I had left the proof down in my car.
Went down and got it; showed it to him. And he said, "Ah!
Everybody that goes by that front gate out there can make
the same picture. Only difference is they're smaller." I
said, "The Colonel said he was going to confiscate everyone
of my pictures." He looked and me and kind of smiled.
and said, "Goldbeck, if I were you, I would' t worry about
it." The old General never confiscated any of my pictures.
The sequel to the thing was, just before General Patton
took his Hell on l'/heels Division overseas, we got a telegram
here: "Want a picture made of my entire Division." He
was at Ft. Benning, Georgia, then. Getting ready to go
overseas. He said, "Don't send anybody but the jack-ass
Goldbeck. " So I went over there and they couldn't have been
GOLDBECK 64
G: Gave me a car and a chauffeur and everything. Put me up
at the officer ' s club. Dined me and everything else for a
whole week. Made pictures of his whole Division; made
pictures of all the various units in the Division; sold a
jillion of 'em. Couldn't have been nicer.
K: I wonder how many of the people in the united States, the
soldiers, still have that photograph? That they bought from
you. Do sometimes people call or write to you to get a copy
of such and such?
G: Yes. Often have contact. I send 'em a . But I've
got a copy of the one I made of General Patton out here.
K: I saw that.
G: Those fellows, they're up in years now. I'm 91; most of
those fellows are. . well, World War II, those fellows
were. I imagine the average soldier in Patton's Army was 25
years old, 23, 4, y e ars old. And that was in 1941 and here
it is '83 . those fellows are about 70 years old. A lot
of 'em passed on already. And the officers, I'd say, most of
the officers are dead. Most of the officers were much
older.
K: The Generals, of course, Patton, and Omar Bradley just
died last year here.
G: Lesser men, rank, my God, Colonels ... most of 'em I'd
say were 40 years old then.
K: Mr. Goldbeck, you've had quite a career. Is there
anything, if you could do it over again, you would want to do
something over in your life or an event that you maybe
GOLDBECK
K: missed that you wish you'd had a chance?
G: Oh, I think I could spend more time in school than I
spent in school.
K: Academic learning. But you have so many life
remembrances and so much life-learning, don't you think.
G: Yes, you learn an awful lot chasing around the globe.
There's an awful lot to see.
K: It's a beautiful world, isn't it?
65
G: Yes. Beautiful world. Especially certain parts. One
part, particularly, that I was impressed with is the South
Island of New Zealand; well, all of New Zealand. But the
South Island of New Zealand has such beautiful scenery. And
the thing that impressed me very much there was many of the
people there, they'd go to the store and leave their houses
wide open; nobody bothers anything. Very few places in the
world where you run into that sort of a situation today.
There were one or two places in Switzerland. I know one time
we went to Geneva, Switzerland, and one evening my wife said,
"Let's go down and do some window shopping." Got a taxi cab
at the hotel and went downtown in Geneva. In Geneva there,
walking up one of the main streets there, jewelry store here
with $11,000 diamond ring in the window; $7,000 one and all
that sort of stuff; no bars on the windows; nothing. Next
block, same kind of a deal. Here in the United States,
somebody would throw a brick in the window and clean it out
in about 15 minutes. Switzerland is a very beautiful
country. Lov ely. Today, if it wasn't for that damn,
GOLDBECK 66
G: infamous wall between the two Berlins, I'd love to live
in Berlin. I think it's a beautiful city. Beautiful city.
Ruined with that darned wall. Terrible.
K: You might see it coming down.
G: The way they've fixed it now. . and I've made pictures
of it in several places and I don't think a tank could go
through that wall now.
K: I read in the paper where they are removing booby traps
along the border . the East Germans. . so I don't know
what that means.
G: They had mines all around, you know. What should
have • I say that our own government was very much at
fault. It violated the understanding they had with Russia,
when they put that. . they should have gone right in there
with a tank the minute they started putting anything up;
bull-dozed it down. Wouldn't have been anything to it.
K: It's been a long time now.
G: Just bull-dozed that thing down. But it's been up there
so long, well, second generation. And these German kids over
there, they learn this Communism. The Germans normally, they
don't believe in Communism, but they've got that bunch over
in East Germany sold on it.
K: Mr. Goldbeck, all the photographs that you've taken in
your career--is there still one left that you want to go and
take; one scenery; or one spot in this world that you still
have in your bones; that isn't out of your system yet?
G: I would like to make a color photo of Machu Picchu, yes.
GOLDBECK 67
G: There's a high, well, it's really a mountain right next
to Machu picchu. The Indians had it, they had a stone
stairway cut into this mountain clear to the top. They used
it as a look-out. And that mountain, those stairs, 1,000
feet high, I'd like to get my camera up on top there and make
a picture of that whole area in there. The whole Urabamba
Valley and the whole deal.
But the Peruvians, they're missing a wonderful bet.
They could get plenty of money from tourists, if they'd just
build a decent hotel down there. They've still got their
same little old jerk water, about 20 rooms, hotel, very
crude. And the average person, they can't spend a night
there. They should spend a night there in order to be able
to see the place properly. But you can't do it. They get
down there about noon and they've got to leave about 4:30 or
so in order to get back to Cuzco in time to get back to their
hotel there.
K: So do you think that's probably going to be one of your
next journeys to go to Machu picchu and climb that mountain?
G: Well, I don't know. I don't know. My wife's getting
where she's pretty weak. I've been leaving my wife with our
doctor son in California several times. My trip out to
China. A couple of years before that, I went to Mt. Everest
and to Katmandu and all in there. I left my wife with my son
in California. It's an imposition on him, too; I'm sure on
his wife, leaving her there for several months. So I don't
know what I'm going to do.
GOLDBECK 68
K: I don't think they mind.
G: Maybe not. The grandson out there, the doctor's
son in other words, he's about 25 years old. very well
educated young man. He graduated with honors in . he's a
chemical engineer. I took him with me twice. NOW I don't
know if I could take him with me. He's very good at carrying
my camera.
K: Your heavy equipment.
G: Yeah.
K: All of your children have had very successful careers.
G: I think so.
K: And even though you were absent quite a few days during
their growing period.
G: Quite a few months. My wife deserves all the credit; not
me. I went out and made a living for the family, but she
really raised the boys. I'd be gone months at a time.
K: She did a beautiful job, didn't she?
G: I think she did.
K: How old is your wife going to be now?
G: 90.
K: And you're going t o be 91.
G: According to Oriental standards, I'm already 91. They
figure you're a year old when you're born. Probably nearer
right than we are .
K: You are a Scorpio and your wife, what sign does she have?
G: Cancer.
K: It served you well, that combination, hasn't it?
GOLDBECK 69
K: I want to thank you very much, Mr. Goldbeck, for giving
me the time to interview you. It's a great honor. I still
remember when I first saw you, I spotted you down on the
River Walk, when you were setting up in the Arneson River
Theater to take . the next day, you were going to take a
panoramic photo of the
G: The 50th anniversary of the founding of the Conservation
Society. They told me they'd have around 1500 out and about
150 came. That was a mess. I figured on filling that whole
place with people. There were about 150.
K: And that's when I spotted you. I got curious to see what
this gentleman had in his dark brown wooden boxes. I was
just too curious and you probably won't remember. And I
walked up to you and I asked you all kinds of questions. And
you took the time; you were very generous with your time,
even then. You explained it to me and then later on, I found
out about you in the newspaper and I realized to whom I had
spoken. That was in 1969. It was a great honor to meet you
Mr. Goldbeck. And I thank you very much.
G: You are perfectly welcome.
K: And I wish you an even longer life.
G: Oh, I'll be here a long time. You know as long as that
old boy downstairs doesn't want Hell polluted any worse than
it is, I'm safe. He can't use me down there. My mother was
107 when she died.
K: So you have • . from a very •
G: We finally had to put her in a rest home. Worst thing
GOLDBECK 70
G: we could have done. Put her in a rest home. Put here in
a rest home in New Braunfels. Nice rest home. But they let
her get uncovered on a real cold night and she got pneumonia
and didn't last long. If that hadn't happened, she'd
probably have lived another 5 or 6 years; maybe longer than
that.
K: And she spoke German all her life?
G: Mother spoke good German. She could talk pretty good
Spanish, too. Took it in school. But she spoke German with
her own people, of course. They all spoke it. My
grandmother and my grandfather, they always spoke German to
one another. However, my grandfather could talk good
English. He was quite a scholar. He studied Latin and Greek
and he could talk Spanish, English, German. My grandmother,
she didn't have the education that my grandfather had.
I remember one time, they always had a Mexican working
for them. Had a little old house there that the l1exican
lived in on the farm. And I remember she said, "Schmeiss dem
caballo uber den fence some hay."
K: Schmeiss dem was?
G: "Throw the horse over the fence some hay." I remember
that very distinctly. 3 languages.
K: That is funny.
G: Three languages, talking to this Mex ican. She couldn't
talk in Mexican and the fellow didn't understand German.
She was a worker, my God. She came from a little place
in south eastern Germany. I forget the name of the place
right off hand. It's in that book. She'd get up in the
GOLDBECK 71
G: morning about 5 o'clock; get out and milk about 6 or 7
cows. She had about 200 darn chickens. Collect eggs and
feed those chickens, working from morning 'til night.
They'd start working on that darn farm before daylight
and wouldn't stop until it got dark. Every day. Every day.
K: Did she ever plant a flower garden also?
G: No, she did not. Her daughters, my mother was the only
one let's see, they had five daughters and three sons;
had eight children. And my mother was the only one of the
girls that ever got married. All the rest of 'em. . I
remember one of my aunts, Aunt Louise, I felt awfully sorry
for her ... She said, "Eugene, I was really in love with
a certain party once and my parents wouldn't let me get
married because he wasn't German." Insisted on these girls
having to marry a German. In other words, they were very
biased in that manner. Poor old Aunt Louise. It's sad.
K: It is, yes. A whole life gets ruined that way.
G: And they were all old maids. The same thing happened
to all of 'em. I never did ask any of the others; I imagine
they had beaus. Especially when they were going to school,
college.
K: Good thing you went up to New York, Mr. Goldbeck.
G: I wasn't paying any attention to my grandmother,
grandfather. My father was entirely different. He figured
you have your own life to live.
I was really only . you might say I came pretty
near getting married once before I married my wife. I really
GOLDBECK 72
G: thought I was in love with the girl . She probably didn't
reciprocate my feelings.
K: There came another trip, right? You had an excuse to go
on a trip.
G: I had a lot of girls that I took out at different times.
Couple dozen, I guess, altogether. But I never really f e ll
in love with them. There were only two of 'em that I really
fell in love with. This one here is the one I finally walked
off with.
I'd never met her if that crazy Division adjutant had
stayed sober that day and had put my papers in the right
basket .
K: Somebody had their hand in there; that was fate.
G: Shows you that a very small thing can c hange my whole
life . Our sons wouldn't be here and their family. There's
a big family now. They all have their own children. One of
'em is now 21, I think. That's another generation about to
start up . She'll probably get married one of these days.
Young lady, I'm going to have to leave you.
K: Thank you very much, Mr. Goldbeck . I sure appreciate
it.
END OF TAPE II, Side 1, about 25 minutes
See also: THE UNPRETENTIOUS POSE, The Work of E.O. Goldback,
A People's Photographer by Marguerite Davenport
Trinity University Press, 1981
GOLDBECK , O.E . PHOTOGRAHPER
Goldbeck , t he famous phot ographer of panorama pictures
born in 1892 and still acti ve in 1984 .
Biographica l material , early li fe , family , SAn Antonio
in the ear l y 20th century .
But mos t ly , his l i fe as a phot ographer , trave l ing the
world and ge tting rare and unusual photos .
In 192 1 o r ' 22 , he invented and pat ent ed the panorama
camera , unique for speed and number of degrees with the
same declarati on in an entire arc .
He was t he unofficial phot ographer for the mi l i tary for
t hirty years .